US military hangs their heads in shame

[jbluhm86]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1184160164758327298

 

[Westside Steve]

Hi JB. 

I don't know what your position is on Military intervention and occupation Etc in the Middle East. If it's possible to leave presidential politics completely out of this situation what would be your solution here?

WSS

[OldBrownsFan]

I think Trump made a mistake by pulling out of Syria but it is comical to see the left act like war hawks. ISIS took over huge amounts of territory during Obama's watch because of a weak foreign policy.  All that territory was taken back under Trump's watch. Trump if he hasn't learned yet has to realize Turkey may be a NATO ally but they are no friend to the West under Erdogan. He is an enemy and Turkey should be booted out of NATO.

[jbluhm86]

20 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Hi JB. 

I don't know what your position is on Military intervention and occupation Etc in the Middle East. If it's possible to leave presidential politics completely out of this situation what would be your solution here?

WSS

I'm not a war hawk, nor am I a fan of military intervention and putting US troops in danger, but I'm also a pragmatist. Turkey and Syria would not be making these aggressive actions if they didn't have assurances and backing from Russia. Russia's recent moves in the middle East are pretty alarming, since they seem to be goading the likes of Iran, Turkey and Syria in order to increase their sphere of influence in the Middle East. Turkey already has nuclear weapons of their own, plus the nuclear weapons NATO has over there. Iran has nuclear ambitions of their own, and are being bankrolled by Russia. Once nuclear weapons proliferate into the likes of Iran and Syria, it'll be game over, because the Islamist elements of those governments have no qualms about using nukes in their religious jihad bullshit. 

As for the Kurds, they're were one of the few allies the US had in the middle East, and were vital in the US curbing ISIS. The fact that we're essentially abandoning them to be slaughtered by the Turks means that we'll have one less ally in the Middle East to prevent the ambitions of Russia and the containment of Islamic jihad.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Turkey does not have their own Nuclear weapons.  The US may still have some there.   Turkey may develop their own by 2023.

[hammertime]

The hypocrisy of criticizing the US for pulling out of Turkey/Syria mess is laughable.  Look who protests the most and you’ll see who was profiting the most.

[Axe]

[Gorka]

This does it for me.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/01/06/syria-donald-trump-saritha-prabhu-pullout-iraq-column/2484680002/

On Syria, Trump is right to ignore failed foreign policy elites who embroiled us in Iraq

 

Saritha Prabhu, Opinion contributorPublished 5:00 a.m. ET Jan. 6, 2019 | Updated 6:41 p.m. ET Jan. 8, 2019

     

 

When foreign policy commentators send their own children to fight in our endless Middle East wars, then Middle America’s sons and daughters can go too.

(Photo: SAUL LOEB, AFP/Getty Images)

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• Saritha Prabhu of Clarksville is a USA TODAY NETWORK Tennessee columnist.

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One of the reasons Donald Trump got elected president was because he spoke the truth about our nearly two decades-long foreign policy in the Middle East. 

The gist of his argument was: We’ve spent trillions of dollars on wars, occupation and nation-building in the Middle East and have achieved nothing. Our soldiers have suffered grievously with our military adventurism. That money could’ve been better spent on domestic nation-building to help Americans lead better lives.

Whatever one thinks of Trump and his character, his argument was sound and was embraced by tens of millions of Americans. It also echoed what another populist, Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., was saying in much of 2016.

With this argument, Trump was able to pulverize the foreign policy establishment wings of both parties, represented by Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton.

OUR VIEW: Backtracking on Syria leaves foreign policy in a better place

Read more commentary: As a Syrian refugee in America, I watched my country collapse. But there is a path to hope.

 

My husband lost a limb in Afghanistan. Now, as his caregiver, I'm on the front lines.

As American troops install razor wire in Arizona, images of the Berlin Wall resurface

Fast-forward to 2018, and to Trump’s unilateral decision to withdraw roughly 2,000 U.S. troops from Syria, overriding the advice of his generals and almost the entire foreign policy establishment.

Elites want the US in Middle East conflict forever

Many foreign policy and military elites and experts have been crying foul in recent weeks. The usual arguments have unfolded: America is in retreat and its global leadership role will be weakened; we’ll cede Syria to Russia and Iran; our ally Israel will be threatened and so on and so forth.

In other words, America should have a military presence forever and ever till death do us part in several Middle Eastern countries.

One can’t help noticing that many of these people are the same “experts” who thought it a good idea to advance regime-change in Iraq and Libya, who are now advocating the same in Syria, and who think occupying Afghanistan for 17 years and running is sound.

Republican and Democratic Senators criticized President Trump's plan to pull U.S. troops out of Syria. Senators said the decision contradicts the advice of military leaders, undermines allies and will allow Islamic State insurgents to regroup. (Dec. 20) AP

Why are we still listening to them? They may have impeccable credentials, but their motives, judgment and agendas can often be suspect. 

Between the neoconservatives and the liberal interventionists in our foreign policy establishment, America has become toast.  

Suggestions for future military interventions 

As a party-less, ideology-less independent voter who wants only the best for America, I’ll take political courage and common sense wherever I can find them. So I applaud Trump’s courage, pragmatism and independence in bucking our military-industrial complex.

Going forward, I have three humble suggestions for any gung-ho military interventions:

►We sorely need separate congressional authorization for each new military incursion. That means exhaustive hearings, democratic debate and public consensus. One problem we’ve had since the 2001 terrorist attacks is that we’ve had a roving, all-purpose Authorization for Use of Military Force used and/or abused to initiate, expand and/or unendingly keep our armed forces in an increasing number of Muslim-majority countries. Does the American public even know the size and nature of our post-2001 expanding military footprint?

Saritha Prabhu (Photo: Submitted)

►For the love of God, let’s spread the sacrifice around.  When commentators such as Max Boot, Joe Scarborough, Bret Stephens and other foreign policy and media elites send their grown children to fight in the Middle East, Middle America’s sons and daughters can go, too. Otherwise, no can do.

►For any new future military interventions, there ought to be clear goals and a clear exit strategy delineated with no room for mission creep and endless quagmires.

One reason we admire President George H.W. Bush was because he kept the Persian Gulf War in check and didn’t get us embroiled in Iraq. Let’s emulate that restraint and wisdom.

There will always be strife and chaos in the Middle East due to the centuries-long Shiite-Sunni enmity. Our military presence there doesn’t mitigate it; we are, in some ways, participants there and often end up sowing more discord and creating more terrorists.  

And of course there are the unforeseen, unintended consequences: Our Iraq misadventure ended up empowering Iran and imperiling the Christian minority in Iraq. Our Libyan fiasco ended up creating the refugee and migrant crisis affecting Europe.

To the American voter I’d humbly say: Think for yourself. Don’t fall for the same tired drumbeats. Reject blind loyalty to party and ideology. Realize that on the issues of illegal immigration and war, especially, there are vested interests with ulterior motives pushing counterintuitive policies. Always keep America’s interests in mind.

Saritha Prabhu is a columnist for The Tennessean, where this column originally appeared. 

You can read diverse opinions from our Board of Contributors and other writers on the Opinion front page, on Twitter @usatodayopinion and in our daily Opinion newsletter. To respond to a column, submit a comment to letters@usatoday.com.

 

 

 

 

[OldBrownsFan]

After winning the Iraq war and all the costs involved in winning that war we needed to maintain a presence in Iraq to enforce that win. Obama for political reasons pulled our troops out and it was a disaster. You can make the argument we should have not had the Iraq war in the first place but after having done so and having so much invested in that war we should have never pulled out but kept troops there to protect our investment.

In Syria we should have at least openly told the Kurds that after the territory was taken back from Isis we planned to leave. That way they would know the score and not have the rug pulled out from under them when we left. I think however like Iraq we had sacrificed too much in Syria to defeat Isis and that we should leave a residual force there to enforce the defeat. I don't see it as an endless war as much as enforcement of the enemies defeat.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I don't agree with abandoning the Kurds.

[Gorka]

59 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

I'm not a war hawk, nor am I a fan of military intervention and putting US troops in danger, but I'm also a pragmatist. Turkey and Syria would not be making these aggressive actions if they didn't have assurances and backing from Russia. Russia's recent moves in the middle East are pretty alarming, since they seem to be goading the likes of Iran, Turkey and Syria in order to increase their sphere of influence in the Middle East. Turkey already has nuclear weapons of their own, plus the nuclear weapons NATO has over there. Iran has nuclear ambitions of their own, and are being bankrolled by Russia. Once nuclear weapons proliferate into the likes of Iran and Syria, it'll be game over, because the Islamist elements of those governments have no qualms about using nukes in their religious jihad bullshit. 

As for the Kurds, they're were one of the few allies the US had in the middle East, and were vital in the US curbing ISIS. The fact that we're essentially abandoning them to be slaughtered by the Turks means that we'll have one less ally in the Middle East to prevent the ambitions of Russia and the containment of Islamic jihad.

And your evidence that the military "hung their heads in shame"?

Whatever negativity you can make up that reflects on the president you will, right?

[hammertime]

Trump informed everyone in December of 2018 he was pulling out.

How much notice do the Kurds need?

[Westside Steve]

32 minutes ago, Gorka said:

And your evidence that the military "hung their heads in shame"?

Whatever negativity you can make up that reflects on the president you will, right?

True enough. Hyperbolic headings are coming place around here. 

WSS

[OldBrownsFan]

5 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

True enough. Hyperbolic headings are coming place around here. 

WSS

I am  huge supporter of this president but the facts are the military by and large does not approve of what he did in Syria. Some of the reaction has been anger, some frustration, and some a feeling of abandoning the Kurds. I find little to none in the military who are supporting the president's decision to pull troops out of Syria.

[jbluhm86]

47 minutes ago, Gorka said:

And your evidence that the military "hung their heads in shame"?

Whatever negativity you can make up that reflects on the president you will, right?

 

8 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I am  huge supporter of this president but the facts are the military by and large does not approve of what he did in Syria. Some of the reaction has been anger, some frustration, and some a feeling of abandoning the Kurds. I find little to none in the military who are supporting the president's decision to pull troops out of Syria.

This.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, OldBrownsFan said:

After winning the Iraq war and all the costs involved in winning that war we needed to maintain a presence in Iraq to enforce that win. Obama for political reasons pulled our troops out and it was a disaster. You can make the argument we should have not had the Iraq war in the first place but after having done so and having so much invested in that war we should have never pulled out but kept troops there to protect our investment.

In Syria we should have at least openly told the Kurds that after the territory was taken back from Isis we planned to leave. That way they would know the score and not have the rug pulled out from under them when we left. I think however like Iraq we had sacrificed too much in Syria to defeat Isis and that we should leave a residual force there to enforce the defeat. I don't see it as an endless war as much as enforcement of the enemies defeat.

Yep.

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

I don't agree with abandoning the Kurds.

Nor do I but the most telling evidence comes from the fact that so many in the Republican leadership are very angry with Trump for making such a foolish decision in a vacuum without first consulting anyone who could have helped him make the right decision. As cal might say, he made an emotional decision based on his own gut feelings rather than a fully reasoned and informed decision. This is a foreign policy disaster of the most foolish kind. This is the end result of slowly running off all your best advisors in the past 2+ years because you know more about it "than all the generals ok."

[OldBrownsFan]

4 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Yep.

Nor do I but the most telling evidence comes from the fact that so many in the Republican leadership are very angry with Trump for making such a foolish decision in a vacuum without first consulting anyone who could have helped him make the right decision. As cal might say, he made an emotional decision based on his own gut feelings rather than a fully reasoned and informed decision. This is a foreign policy disaster of the most foolish kind. This is the end result of slowly running off all your best advisors in the past 2+ years because you know more about it "than all the generals ok."

Although I disagree with President Trump on pulling the troops out of Syria the hypocrisy from the left is hard to take as they have always been advocating us to leave the middle east. Now all of a sudden they change their tune because it is Trump doing what they have always favored to do. I have no doubt those on the left who are critical of Trump pulling out the Troops would have fully supported Obama if he had done it.

 

[OldBrownsFan]

We have one true ally in the middle east and that is Israel and they should be our main focus in all we do in the region. I am leery of our country getting involved in any Muslim country because no matter what we do to help we will always be the infidels in their eyes. In Libya we helped the rebels from being annihilated by Khadaffi and with our help they won but what did we win? These rebels we helped gave us Benghazi and Libya was better off with Khadaffi. I see some merit in what Trump is doing in trying to keep us out of middle east conflicts but I think in the case of Syria it is different and we should have maintained a presence there to keep ISIS from regrouping. 

[TexasAg1969]

Just now, OldBrownsFan said:

Although I disagree with President Trump on pulling the troops out of Syria the hypocrisy from the left is hard to take as they have always been advocating us to leave the middle east. Now all of a sudden they change their tune because it is Trump doing what they have always favored to do. I have no doubt those on the left who are critical of Trump pulling out the Troops would have fully supported Obama if he had done it.

I don't disagree with you on that point. However my point is how much Trump Republicans have been totally rebellious in a way I never expected. It's like they all grew a set of collective balls to tell the emperor he had no clothes. First time since he became president. And they are right about picking this spot to do so. This was a horrible mistake and fits exactly my biggest fear for this presidency, zero understanding of foreign policy combined with that narcissism that makes him think he knows best regardless of what he does. He has made multiple foreign relationship mistakes from day one, many of which actually help Russia as they predicted he would when they decided to help him become president. They are not stupid and have taken major advantage of his weaknesses in personality. They know better what he is than his own supporters. Checkmate is their favorite word while "King me" seems to be Trumps. Chess vs Checkers.

[OldBrownsFan]

7 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I don't disagree with you on that point. However my point is how much Trump Republicans have been totally rebellious in a way I never expected. It's like they all grew a set of collective balls to tell the emperor he had no clothes. First time since he became president. And they are right about picking this spot to do so. This was a horrible mistake and fits exactly my biggest fear for this presidency, zero understanding of foreign policy combined with that narcissism that makes him think he knows best regardless of what he does. He has made multiple foreign relationship mistakes from day one, many of which actually help Russia as they predicted he would when they decided to help him become president. They are not stupid and have taken major advantage of his weaknesses in personality. They know better what he is than his own supporters. Checkmate is their favorite word while "King me" seems to be Trumps. Chess vs Checkers.

I think most republicans have been supportive of Trump because he has been doing a great job. I support this president 100 percent but think he is wrong on this one. His idea however of trying to get us out of conflicts in the middle east is a good one. The Iraq war was a disaster and the same way with Libya and Afghanistan. We need to be a whole lot more cautious in getting involved in middle east conflicts except for having 100 percent support for our true ally, Israel.

[calfoxwc]

52 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I think most republicans have been supportive of Trump because he has been doing a great job. I support this president 100 percent but think he is wrong on this one. His idea however of trying to get us out of conflicts in the middle east is a good one. The Iraq war was a disaster and the same way with Libya and Afghanistan. We need to be a whole lot more cautious in getting involved in middle east conflicts except for having 100 percent support for our true ally, Israel.

I believe we've been there plenty long enough to train them, and have them muster up their own large force to be able to defend themselves. We can't just stay there forever. Again, the UN is completely worthless. They need to make a home for the Kurds, but Russia/china will never allow it with their veto.

I asked Tex twice, if he was stationed there, would he want to just keep staying there. No answer. Turkey is no ally of ours and should not be in NATO. Staying there is risky. They are leaning more and more soviet union. Because the soviets condone anything to get more power. If the soviets could get ownership of the Ukraine again...they would be happy to starve out millions of them again.

  My ccw instructor and friend, 4.5 years Special Forces - I don't want to lose any more of those guys trying to

stay forever in dangerous places in the world.

 

I respect Col. MacGregor highly: He says the pullout was a brilliant military decision:

 

[calfoxwc]

Listen closely to the man - he's serious military, and understands comprehensively, genuine smart strategy in that part of the world:

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[Vambo]

1 hour ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Although I disagree with President Trump on pulling the troops out of Syria the hypocrisy from the left is hard to take as they have always been advocating us to leave the middle east. Now all of a sudden they change their tune because it is Trump doing what they have always favored to do. I have no doubt those on the left who are critical of Trump pulling out the Troops would have fully supported Obama if he had done it.

 

If Trump said breathe the left would all hold their breath.

[calfoxwc]

I do wonder about leaving behind the heavy equipment, if that is true. I would have emptied the entire base out.

I figure there was solid intel that some attack was eminent. We only had 1000/1500 troops there.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[hammertime]

32 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I do wonder about leaving behind the heavy equipment, if that is true. I would have emptied the entire base out.

I figure there was solid intel that some attack was eminent. We only had 1000/1500 troops there.

The cost of returning heavy, used, and probably aged equipment has to be high.

not worth the risk money wise or our troops time and health.

[Vambo]

Anyone who opposes the withdraw can always volunteer to go over and take their place if they feel so much for the Kurds.

[OldBrownsFan]

Where was all the outrage when Obama pulled our troops out of Iraq too soon and all the problems that caused with ISIS taking over a good portion of Iraq. I don't remember any outrage like Trump is getting now  but the double standard is always different with republicans and even more so with Trump. Too bad some republicans are joining the band wagon with the hypocritical dems. I don't remember republicans and democrats joining together to condemn Obama's ill advised actions in Iraq.

[hammertime]

2 hours ago, Vambo said:

Anyone who opposes the withdraw can always volunteer to go over and take their place if they feel so much for the Kurds.

Or of course they could send there kids if they feel so strongly about it