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Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls


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18 hours ago, Orion said:

I'd still keep an eye out for a RG, if one were to be somewhere near the top of our board when our pick came up, some round.  And supposedly is a good WR draft. 

But yeah, we need LB'er(s), S, DT, and we shouldn't be afraid to pick a CB.  And edge rusher.  (we haven't done anything yet with Vernon, have we?)

Nope , Vernon is still on the Roster...

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lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.

On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:

  • Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
  • Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
  • Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
  • Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
  • Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100

Here are the Round 1 picks...

  1. CIN - Burrow
  2. WSH - Young
  3. MIA - Tua
  4. NYG - Wills... that's 1
  5. DET - Simmons
  6. LAC - Herbert
  7. TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
  8. AZ - Thomas... that's 3
  9. JAX - Becton... that's 4
  10. CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
  11. NYJ - Jeudy
  12. LVR - Okudah

JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...

So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...

Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.

 

Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.

On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:

  • Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
  • Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
  • Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
  • Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
  • Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100

Here are the Round 1 picks...

  1. CIN - Burrow
  2. WSH - Young
  3. MIA - Tua
  4. NYG - Wills... that's 1
  5. DET - Simmons
  6. LAC - Herbert
  7. TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
  8. AZ - Thomas... that's 3
  9. JAX - Becton... that's 4
  10. CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
  11. NYJ - Jeudy
  12. LVR - Okudah

JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...

So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...

Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.

 

Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/

 

 

Mock drafts are great to get the creative juices flowing. I would say that, if the board fell the way it did for the Browns, they are running to the podium with Okudah on the paper. Yes, they have greedy and denzel, but that gives the team all kinds of flexibility with it's defense and disguises. They could send all kinds of different looks knowing they have the WR's on lockdown 1-3. 

Just a random thought, but I still just don't think these qb's are going to go as high as everyone else. Tua has major injury questions which can not be evaluated before the draft because of the current state of the world and Herbert was incredibly disappointing this past season. Herbert has all the tools but was the most inconsistent player perhaps in the country considering the hype. If I'm the chargers, I don't draft a qb and sign Cam Newton, draft either a tackle or if okudah is on the board based on a scenario like this, i take him and have the best secondary in the league. If I'm Miami, and you obviously tried to tank last year, why not tank again for next year where Fields and Lawarence will be in the draft? Both ranked higher than Tua or Herbert. You have a serviceable vet plus Rosen (who you gave up a 2nd rounder) still in the fold. Put some really good players around your next qb. Even if you don't get the top 3 pick next year, MIA still has all kinds of draft ammo to move up if they really want too. (Yes, I know, every year is different and you never know about the qbs and who is going to flame out, etc...). My point is both teams are in a great position to add good talent without having the risk of failure of a qb.

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4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...

So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...

Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.

Tiam's Jeremy Chinn? WHAT ? lol lol

Actually, Kyle Duggar got picked three picks later in the third round. But he was rated a bit higher. I wasn't far off the mark there.

Kinlaw would be a great, great pick. But we signed a DL. You have to love Kinlaw though. I don't see it - unless you relegate Ogunjobi (eventually?) to being in rotation and not a starter. ?

BPA would be Kinlaw. But without signing a FA LT... I don't know how good Ezra Cleveland would be at LT vs the speed rushers he'd face in the NFL.

My goofy opinion - I will be shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, if Chinn and Duggar fall out of the second round.

Interesting mock though.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-draft-kyle-dugger-jeremy-chinn-highlight-small-school-sleepers-who-could-land-in-first-three-rounds/

I'm thinking, if the Browns DID draft Kinlaw (who is surely to be a star in the NFL)...

they could draft Chinn/Duggar in the second, and then pick the OT (division III though) in the third round:

"Ben Bartch, OT, St. John's 

The only Division III player at both the Senior Bowl and the combine, Bartch is bound to get drafted and, unlike many lower-level offensive linemen on the NFL radar, he likely won't have to move to guard to play in the pros. 

At nearly 6-foot-6 and 309 pounds with arms close to 33 inches, he has adequate left tackle length by NFL standards. His film shows a nice blend of technique, nastiness, and anchor in pass protection, all of which probably got the attention of GMs and scouts. 

Also, while many small-school blockers are devastating in the run game but have a ways to develop in pass protection, Bartch already thrives in the latter area and understands three of the most vital facets of blocking on a pass play -- he sinks his hips to win the leverage battle, he makes initial contact with the defender and routinely resets his hands, which helps him stay balanced. The third round is not out of the question for the Division III stud."

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34 minutes ago, Bigalow80 said:

Mock drafts are great to get the creative juices flowing. I would say that, if the board fell the way it did for the Browns, they are running to the podium with Okudah on the paper. Yes, they have greedy and denzel, but that gives the team all kinds of flexibility with it's defense and disguises. They could send all kinds of different looks knowing they have the WR's on lockdown 1-3. 

Just a random thought, but I still just don't think these qb's are going to go as high as everyone else. Tua has major injury questions which can not be evaluated before the draft because of the current state of the world and Herbert was incredibly disappointing this past season. Herbert has all the tools but was the most inconsistent player perhaps in the country considering the hype. If I'm the chargers, I don't draft a qb and sign Cam Newton, draft either a tackle or if okudah is on the board based on a scenario like this, i take him and have the best secondary in the league. If I'm Miami, and you obviously tried to tank last year, why not tank again for next year where Fields and Lawarence will be in the draft? Both ranked higher than Tua or Herbert. You have a serviceable vet plus Rosen (who you gave up a 2nd rounder) still in the fold. Put some really good players around your next qb. Even if you don't get the top 3 pick next year, MIA still has all kinds of draft ammo to move up if they really want too. (Yes, I know, every year is different and you never know about the qbs and who is going to flame out, etc...). My point is both teams are in a great position to add good talent without having the risk of failure of a qb.

Well,  QBs always go higher than probably they should.   So, unless these teams really show some restraint, I would expect them all to still go high.  The one thing that could restrain them of course is the corona virus restrictions.  Especially with a QB, where the risk/reward is high anyway, maybe GMs will be reluctant to take them as high as usual....given that risk.   And maybe they will, as you say, go more with a known commodity.  (though Cam's injury situation makes him less of a know commodity)

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9 hours ago, Bigalow80 said:

Just a random thought, but I still just don't think these qb's are going to go as high as everyone else. Tua has major injury questions which can not be evaluated before the draft because of the current state of the world and Herbert was incredibly disappointing this past season. Herbert has all the tools but was the most inconsistent player perhaps in the country considering the hype. If I'm the chargers, I don't draft a qb and sign Cam Newton, draft either a tackle or if okudah is on the board based on a scenario like this, i take him and have the best secondary in the league. If I'm Miami, and you obviously tried to tank last year, why not tank again for next year where Fields and Lawarence will be in the draft? Both ranked higher than Tua or Herbert.

Random is what we thrive on here.

Going to disagree on Tua... I think before everything was locked down, teams came away with enough info for their Medicals Staffs to either DQ the kid or not. And if he's not DQ'd, then that's the end of that discussion... you assess him on his play... and his tape is very competitive with Burrow's.

A valid consideration for any team picking him is that Tua is not likely to see the field in 2020. However, if there is no 2020 season for anyone, then why not take him?

Herbert? I see fool's gold when I see him.

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15 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.

On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:

  • Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
  • Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
  • Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
  • Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
  • Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100

Here are the Round 1 picks...

  1. CIN - Burrow
  2. WSH - Young
  3. MIA - Tua
  4. NYG - Wills... that's 1
  5. DET - Simmons
  6. LAC - Herbert
  7. TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
  8. AZ - Thomas... that's 3
  9. JAX - Becton... that's 4
  10. CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
  11. NYJ - Jeudy
  12. LVR - Okudah

JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...

So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...

Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.

 

Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/

 

 

I could definitely see this shaking out.  As you know, I was already worried the NYG would go LT at #4.  You brought up a very good point about Solder's dead money. But, if he can't stay healthy enough to be or play like a starter -  lyrics remind us "it's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."  They have a 1st round QB investment they have to protect so I can see them eating that Solder contract. The good thing about drafting a guy vrs paying FA prices - the rookie contract is usually cap friendlier.  That is, unless you're the NYG that could be railroading themselves into pay both of these contracts.   This is a good lesson to all those thinking we need to pay big FA money for the worn and torn.  Washington is asking way too much for a Trent Williams trade for a player who is close to the age Joe Thomas was when NFL wear and tear = retirement. FA Jason Peters is about 6 years older than that.

I've also recently mentioned in various threads I could see TB trading up since my drive into work every day has a lot of radio discussion hopes of them trading up to protect the blind side of Brady.  One caller said "they didn't protect the blindside of Jameis."  And the host asked "Which blind side are you talking about? Jameis has a lot of them."  Seeing how much they wanted Brady - the trade up in the mock draft makes a lot of sense especially for a team that gave up a lot of sacks and QB pressures in 2019.

If it gets to this we can either trade back or draft Josh Jones instead of Kinlaw.  I've read 2 different draft pubs stating Kinlaw has a tendency to play with a high pad height; and has trouble seeing the ball. 2 things that wouldn't match up well vrs OGs in our division like Yanda or DeCastro. I wouldn't just reach for Jones here if there's no trade-back option - I'd pull a muscle to do it.   Having said that, I'm starting to think he might be less of a reach than Kinlaw anyway.  We already have 2 FA DTs we invested money in with too many bare cupboards to blow off for a boom or bust DT.  Lindy's Draft Guide lists Kinlaw as a prototypical pass rusher. But they also list him as the DT that "Could Disappoint" stating "Among the most obvious boom-or-bust prospects of the 2020 Draft.  Kinlaw alternately wows with his explosiveness or finds himself on his back, relying on his tools and losing technique too often." 

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Not sure how I feel about Wirfs, who can struggle on the edge of his current side, flipping to the opposite at the NFL level and finding success.   So justifying him being that high is.... Odd, to me? 

 

Edit: a lot of mocks showing Andrew Thomas to AZ.   I'm really not sure how I feel about personnel order at that point.  Right now I'm a AT or bust mindset.    And with my feelings on IDL, I feel that can be addressed at value a little while later.

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I can see the Bucs trading up ahead of us for a LT. But I have also read that Kyler is pushing hard to get his old WR from OKla. back in the huddle with him, CeeDee Lamb. Not the worst pick since they have such a good prior connection. Might look somewhat like KC's pass happy team with their throw on the run QB. I think Kyler has confidence he can shake loose from any edge rushers beating his LT and either run or find a receiver just like Mahomes does.

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I can see the Bucs trading up ahead of us for a LT. But I have also read that Kyler is pushing hard to get his old WR from OKla. back in the huddle with him, CeeDee Lamb. Not the worst pick since they have such a good prior connection. Might look somewhat like KC's pass happy team with their throw on the run QB. I think Kyler has confidence he can shake loose from any edge rushers beating his LT and either run or find a receiver just like Mahomes does.

I cant see the Cardinals going for another WR so early. Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd, but they already have Hopkins, Fitzgerald, Kirk, Isabella, and Hakeem Butler. 

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There are a lot of suggestions regarding teams trading up in front of us in order to draft their new left tackle.

It shows how important that fat-ass on the left side of the line is.

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44 minutes ago, Louisville Slugger said:

I cant see the Cardinals going for another WR so early. Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd, but they already have Hopkins, Fitzgerald, Kirk, Isabella, and Hakeem Butler. 

That might have been Kyler talking before they acquired Hopkins come to think of it. What a weapon they gave him there!!

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2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

It feels like if the Browns take ANY position besides LT, it will be a shock to most of us. 

If for some crazy reason Simmons is still there at #10, that's just as big a need IMO. . Highly doubt that'll be an option though, and thus makes LT the very obvious choice.

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Not sure how I feel about Wirfs, who can struggle on the edge of his current side, flipping to the opposite at the NFL level and finding success.   So justifying him being that high is.... Odd, to me? 

 

Edit: a lot of mocks showing Andrew Thomas to AZ.   I'm really not sure how I feel about personnel order at that point.  Right now I'm a AT or bust mindset.    And with my feelings on IDL, I feel that can be addressed at value a little while later.

Yeah, sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture in terms of prospects. There's a reason defensive linemen have been pouring out of the flood gates from Ohio State-they all want to be coached by Larry Johnson. Whatever that dude does, he does it damn well. 

Same thing with Sam Pittman as the (former) OL coach at Georgia. Whenever that dude gets his hand on a NFL prospect on the O-Line, they end up solid to great players. No reason to overthink on that one, if Thomas is there take him. Only way it gets complicated is if Simmons is there too.

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1 hour ago, Orion said:

There are a lot of suggestions regarding teams trading up in front of us in order to draft their new left tackle.

It shows how important that fat-ass on the left side of the line is.

Goohlie-ish lol

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4 hours ago, Flugel said:

OGs in our division like Yanda or DeCastro. I wouldn't just reach for Jones here if there's no trade-back option - I'd pull a muscle to do it.   Having said that, I'm starting to think he might be less of a reach than Kinlaw anyway.  We already have 2 FA DTs we invested money in with too many bare cupboards to blow off for a boom or bust DT.  Lindy's Draft Guide lists Kinlaw as a prototypical pass rusher.

Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that... ;)

I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.

Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.

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5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that... ;)

I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.

Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.

I picked Robert Hunt  IOL  from Louisiana  with the Browns comp pick in round 3   #97 overall.    What do you think about that pick of the Rajun Cajun? 

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12 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I picked Robert Hunt  IOL  from Louisiana  with the Browns comp pick in round 3   #97 overall.    What do you think about that pick of the Rajun Cajun? 

Haven't watched any tape, but from what I've read he's a good player, but a bad scheme fit for us. He's made for the power game.

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59 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

If for some crazy reason Simmons is still there at #10, that's just as big a need IMO. . Highly doubt that'll be an option though, and thus makes LT the very obvious choice.

Yeah, sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture in terms of prospects. There's a reason defensive linemen have been pouring out of the flood gates from Ohio State-they all want to be coached by Larry Johnson. Whatever that dude does, he does it damn well. 

Same thing with Sam Pittman as the (former) OL coach at Georgia. Whenever that dude gets his hand on a NFL prospect on the O-Line, they end up solid to great players. No reason to overthink on that one, if Thomas is there take him. Only way it gets complicated is if Simmons is there too.

I think that the Browns would draft Thomas if he's there. I'm sure he won't be. I love the idea of the Browns drafting Simmons. I said elsewhere, Simmons at times, reminds me of watching Jack Lambert back in college. But assuming that Thomas is not going to be there, it seems that Josh Jones is still a great pick there.

    Biggest reason is, per my stupid mock draft, is that Kyle Dugger is there. I called Dugger a "poor man's Simmons" somewhere. Add to that, Tiam's impressive Jeremy Chinn - will both be there in the second round.

   So, I think Thomas is gone, and so is Simmons.

Therefore -

Round one preference:

Thomas - primary, Jones - secondary

As to the question if Thomas is gone and Simmons fell to the Browns? lol

I'd draft Simmons. He is that much a BPA.

Then, I'd see if the excellent OT tackle we signed as a FA will flip to LT, and I'd draft an OT for the right side.

 I think Josh Jones goes in the top twenty at worst, 10-15 at best. With no chance? at Thomas, Jones was my 1st round pick.

whatever, It's freaking complicated. LOL

If the Browns DID get Simmons in the first round?

Ezra Cleveland, as noted elsewhere, going in the last pick of the first in a few mocks.....

  I really, really like this kid - he probably won't start his first year, but... - the only Division III kid at the Senior Bowl I think it was. Could be a serious gem - third round -

https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch

There was only one NCAA Division III football player who competed in the Reese’s Senior Bowl and that was offensive tackle Ben Bartch. Bartch attended Saint John’s University in Collegeville, Minnesota where he played tight end for his first two years of college before moving to offensive tackle.

In his sophomore year, he caught four passes for 43 yards and one touchdown. After switching over to offensive tackle, Bartch started every game for the Johnnies. He was named Second Team All-MIAC as a junior. In his senior year, Bartch was named First Team All-MIAC as well as Second Team AP All-American.

Heading into the Senior Bowl, Bartch was an expected day three pick. The 6’6”, 308 pound lineman boosted himself to a top 100 prospect following his week in Mobile, Alabama. He was consistent all week and showed he could compete with the top draft prospects. Bartch will also be participating in the NFL Combine.

Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo

— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020

For Tampa Bay, one of the biggest offseason needs is offensive tackle. In many mock drafts, the Bucs are linked to OT Mekhi Bacon from Louisville. Bartch is projected to be selected midway through the 3rd round. If the Bucs decided to wait and select Bartch in the 3rd round, they could get more value that is needed at a different position.

 

   

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18 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

In many mock drafts, the Bucs are linked to OT Mekhi Bacton from Louisville. Bartch is projected to be selected midway through the 3rd round. If the Bucs decided to wait and select Bartch in the 3rd round, they could get more value that is needed at a different position.   

I took Becton as a RT for the Bucs in the BB draft because they already have their LT and I think he makes a superior RT. Got to get quality in front of ole man Brady if you wanting him to play all season.  

Maybe after that a punter.  🤣

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I took Becton as a RT for the Bucs in the BB draft because they already have their LT and I think he makes a superior RT. Got to get quality in front of ole man Brady if you wanting him to play all season.  

Maybe after that a punter.  🤣

Wherever Becton goes - it will be intriguing to watch how he does in his career.

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21 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Haven't watched any tape, but from what I've read he's a good player, but a bad scheme fit for us. He's made for the power game.

Well, with our 2 RBs, and this guy being an interior OL,  wouldn't it be good for us to have some kind of a "power game"?   I mean, it seems that for a long time the Browns have been having issues getting a push up front in like  goal line situations and  3rd and short situations. Now that we have a fullback wouldn't we be wanting to play a bit of "Powerball" at time? 

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Folks... please look at Peart... RT.. #65...

 

He was gone in our draft by the time it came around for me to try to grab him. 

But then I was looking for  guard, not a tackle.   

Would you rather have him than the guys they have listed at the top:  Wirfs/Thomas/Becton//Wills etc?

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

So may I assume you are looking for him as a later round RT?

He was a solid 3rd  a couple weeks ago, but has been climbing.

If I miss Thomas/Jones in the 1st, then I take him with our 2nd-rounder and don't look back.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Would you rather have him than the guys they have listed at the top:  Wirfs/Thomas/Becton//Wills etc?

I value:

Thomas, Jones at #10 > Peart at #41 > Wills at #10 >>> Wirfs at #10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Becton at #10

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