Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Folks... please look at Peart... RT.. #65...

 

Peart has some terrific qualities, some scouts wonder about his toughness. Some say he seems very soft. I looked at him before, and the Browns' LT Robinson came to mind. Definitely has the physical skills. But my goofy opinion - I didn't think he was a football player. But if you guessed right and he will be - he would be a steal later on in the draft.

I like Ben Bartch better. I like Ezra Cleveland a lot more.

***************************************

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/scouting-combine-offensive-tackles-1

Ben Bartch, Saint John’s (6-5, 308): Bartch went from Division III All-American to the Senior Bowl. “It was really important,” he said of his performance at the prestigious all-star game Mobile, Ala. “One of the main red flags most scouts have on a player like me is the level of competition. They need to see how you are going to do when you go up against the biggest and fastest guys out there. And that's to be expected. You just have to rise to the occasion when you get the chance.”

Bartch played tight end during his first two years at the school. With limited playing time, he moved to left tackle and set the stage for his path to the NFL. To do it, he had to pack on the pounds. That meant seven meals per day and a smooth creation that include eggs, cottage cheese, peanut butter, bananas and milk. Over the course of weight training and conditioning, he’d eat seven meals.

Just eight Saint John’s players have been drafted, and none since offensive lineman Kurt Wachtler in the 15th round of 1974. The last Johnnies player to appear in a regular-season NFL game was running back Rick Bell, who played for the Vikings in 1983. He studied abroad in South Africa during Spring 2019

 

[tiamat63]

Peart is my contingency plan if Andrew Thomas is gone.

And no, I don't mean by kicking over the rookie to the left side.

[Tour2ma]

6 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I like Ben Bartch better. I like Ezra Cleveland a lot more.

I love Bartch's story and like his promise, but if I draft an OT outside Round 1 I'm still looking for plug n play... not someday maybe...

Obviously we completely part ways on Ezra...

[Flugel]

My order of upper faves has changed and it probably won't be the last time. 

1. Andrew Thomas - This won't change and I'm bummed he won't last until #10 overall.  Here's a video of him broken down by Voch Lombardi who points out a correctable bad pass pro habit with his hands he thinks is being taught at UGA (when he shows the RT doing it too).

2. Jedrick Wills Jr - I had been changing frequently between Wills and Wirfs; but now Josh Jones is the guy that will tempt preference at 2. 

3. Josh Jones - I always say when you visit an area that intrigues you - take a Tour Guide so you don't miss the best details. This was no different.  I took Tour's Guide and found a lot to like from the 4 year starter at Left Tackle. 

4. Tristan Wirfs - Is he like the band who thinks they're Better than Ezra?  If not, we could be going BPA at #10 if the 1st 3 fellers and/or Becton have already been selected.  For being the only OL to start as a freshman for our former OL coach Kirk Ferentz - I thought he'd offer us more hope to the Joe Thomas sized hole at LT in Cleveland.  Unfortunately, he looks like a better candidate to play the RT position he played most often in college.  Not saying LT is impossible with the type of strength and athleticism he displayed in Indy - it's just that all the stars and planets would have to align themselves for it to happen. 

Here's a video comparing Wills and Wirfs.

5. Mekhi Becton - I might have really under-estimated this guy. Gee, there's a surprise.  He's raw but he's put some goodies on film for the right NFL OL Coach to mold.  I'm going to show a couple sets of highlights - first one is narrated by Voch Lombardi.  The second one is just a collage of opponents that should have been narrated by Bill Withers singing Lean on Me. What I don't know from watching just 2 videos is if he's a good fit for a zbs or if he's ready for blind side pass pro in the NFL.  I could see him playing RT for somebody like Orlando Brown ended up doing in Baltimore (already has 1 Pro Bowl appearance) in spite of his bench presses like a girl scout episode.

 

[Flugel]

On 3/31/2020 at 12:58 PM, Tour2ma said:

Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that...

I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.

Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.

I walked right into that one with Yanda.

I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2.  Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Becton at #5.  I added some highlights in my previous post.  All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...

[Louisville Slugger]

34 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I walked right into that one with Yanda.

I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2.  Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Becton at #5.  I added some highlights in my previous post.  All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...

I dont see it with Wills. He is good in a phone booth but I dont like how he drops back and that seems like a recipe for disaster at LT. I want Thomas but dont think hell be there. I would understand Becton because we while he is raw he has the tools and we are going to run the ball a ton. Then I would trade back for Jones or maybe Cleveland. 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

I walked right into that one with Yanda.

I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2.  Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Byouecton at #5.  I added some highlights in my previous post.  All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...

Pffft... and I posted about a 17-game 2020 season yesterday... it happens.

Now need you to drop Becton altogether and add Peart...

[htownbrown]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/cleveland-browns-need-a-left-tackle-high-in-draft-its-not-easy-to-get-it-right.html%3foutputType=amp

[htownbrown]

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/joe-thomas-explains-the-challenges-facing-rookie-left-tackles-and-who-best-fits-the-browns-offense.html

[Tour2ma]

Wirfs alert from the first of the two articles htown posted...

Quote

"... often, a guy who can’t handle left tackle can play right tackle,” said Savage. “At the very least, he usually can play guard. In other words, you do get something good from the pick — even if it’s not at left tackle.”

For example, Robert Gallery was the No. 2 pick in the 2004 draft. He was supposed to be a “can’t miss tackle” coming out of Iowa.

He struggled at both left and right tackle in the NFL, but eventually had a decent career as a starting left guard for five seasons.

 

[Tour2ma]

And from the other article where Joe T. says...

Quote

“I would say, guys that are ready from day one, to be dominant in the run game, Wirfs would be the first guy,” Thomas said. “But if you’re going to ask a guy to drop back and pass block, which still happens and you still want that skill, then a guy like Mekhi Becton or Jedrick Wills would possibly, maybe, suit that bill just slightly more. But really I think the Browns are in such a great position because they need a left tackle. There’s four, maybe five of them who all could do a great job.”

Slight nod to Jones(?) methinks... but I'm actually glad he mentions neither him nor Thomas.

I wonder if he is consulting for our FO?

[TexasAg1969]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

And from the other article where Joe T. says...

Slight nod to Jones(?) methinks... but I'm actually glad he mentions neither him nor Thomas.

I wonder if he is consulting for our FO?

Smoke screen #1 for the Browns-Go Joe!!

[Flugel]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:46 AM, Tour2ma said:

Pffft... and I posted about a 17-game 2020 season yesterday... it happens.

Now need you to drop Becton altogether and add Peart...

Thanks!  Not to worry, guys that are better fits at RT, OG or a power scheme in lieu of a zbs (ie: Wirfs and Becton) won't keep spots #4 and 5 for much longer.  With Becton, I just wanted to give him more respect than my first impression of him looking like he'd never get out of the uncomfortable stance he was pictured in.  Remember that song 16 Candles?  It looked like he had all 16 lit and super-glued to the end of his dumpster. I can see him getting Orlando Brown'd to RT, which can work out well for a team that doesn't need a LT this year.  Brown played in a Pro Bowl at RT in just his second season. Becton moves better than Brown and he's stronger. 

Right now, I see Thomas, Wills and Jones as worthy of #10 overall.  I appreciate your Peart recommendation.  There's a few guys I want to watch some film on before I finalize my last 2 guys...

[Flugel]

On 4/3/2020 at 9:57 AM, Louisville Slugger said:

I dont see it with Wills. He is good in a phone booth but I dont like how he drops back and that seems like a recipe for disaster at LT. I want Thomas but dont think hell be there. I would understand Becton because we while he is raw he has the tools and we are going to run the ball a ton. Then I would trade back for Jones or maybe Cleveland. 

Even before Joe Thomas mentioned it, people we're questioning Becton's compatibility for the zbs.  I think he can play and his ability to move is underrated IMO; but I'm not sure if LT will be his NFL niche especially early on.  Keep in mind that comes from the same guy that told you Lamar Jackson couldn't play - so there is that...

Anyway, here's some footage that could change your mind some on Wills.

 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

With Becton, I just wanted to give him more respect than my first impression of him looking like he'd never get out of the uncomfortable stance he was pictured in.

I can see him getting Orlando Brown'd to RT, which can work out well for a team that doesn't need a LT this year.  Brown played in a Pro Bowl at RT in just his second season. Becton moves better than Brown and he's stronger.

lol... Kinda the road I went down as well with Mekhi... First blush was, "He can't be this bad."

Next pause was, "Can he slim down and become more effective as Brown, Jr. did?" It was at this point I realized that I did not need to project Becton's ceiling when I could see much higher floors in others who also had room to grow.

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Even before Joe Thomas mentioned it, people we're questioning Becton's compatibility for the zbs.  I think he can play and his ability to move is underrated IMO; but I'm not sure if LT will be his NFL niche especially early on. 

Keep in mind that comes from the same guy that told you Lamar Jackson couldn't play - so there is that...

Becton can move... it's his ability to move under control that concerns me.

As for Joe on Lamar... give Joe a number. The list of Jackson doubters is long and distinguished. The list of those who saw him being as electric as he was last season? Well.... if there is a list, then it would fit on one of those tiny Post-Its.

[Flugel]

30 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... Kinda the road I went down as well with Mekhi... First blush was, "He can't be this bad."

Next pause was, "Can he slim down and become more effective as Brown, Jr. did?" It was at this point I realized that I did not need to project Becton's ceiling when I could see much higher floors in others who also had room to grow.

Becton can move... it's his ability to move under control that concerns me.

As for Joe on Lamar... give Joe a number. The list of Jackson doubters is long and distinguished. The list of those who saw him being as electric as he was last season? Well.... if there is a list, then it would fit on one of those tiny Post-Its.

I was referring to me telling Louisville Slugger that Lamar Jackson couldn't play.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

I was referring to me telling Louisville Slugger that Lamar Jackson couldn't play.

Ah... well that's one for the Post-It...

[Louisville Slugger]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

I was referring to me telling Louisville Slugger that Lamar Jackson couldn't play.

I said that if Lamar ended up in a Greg Roman offense I would take #1 overall, I dont think he would be half as good if he went anywhere else. So I dont think you were completely wrong. I dont think there are many people who know how to use his skill set properly. 

I dont want to come off like I hate Wills as a prospect, I just dont like the idea of him at LT. I look at his initial drop back and feel like he doesnt cover enough ground. He does alot of things really well, hes smart, powerful, quick, and plays with a good foundation. I think top level pass rushers will take the edge on him but I could be wrong. I really think he is an elite guard prospect and a safe pick at RT. Problem is we need a LT

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

I was referring to me telling Louisville Slugger that Lamar Jackson couldn't play.

You mean the Nebraska CB  Lamar Jackson?  About a 3rd rounder?  

[Flugel]

20 minutes ago, Louisville Slugger said:

I said that if Lamar ended up in a Greg Roman offense I would take #1 overall, I dont think he would be half as good if he went anywhere else. So I dont think you were completely wrong. I dont think there are many people who know how to use his skill set properly. 

I dont want to come off like I hate Wills as a prospect, I just dont like the idea of him at LT. I look at his initial drop back and feel like he doesnt cover enough ground. He does alot of things really well, hes smart, powerful, quick, and plays with a good foundation. I think top level pass rushers will take the edge on him but I could be wrong. I really think he is an elite guard prospect and a safe pick at RT. Problem is we need a LT

No worries. You acknowledged some of Wills' strengths and explained where you are coming from about him as a LT.  

[Flugel]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

You mean the Nebraska CB  Lamar Jackson?  About a 3rd rounder?  

I wish that was who I was referring to...

[Louisville Slugger]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

No worries. You acknowledged some of Wills' strengths and explained where you are coming from about him as a LT.  

Hey I'm no o line guru maybe hes just makes it look too easy. 

[calfoxwc]

Interesting - this guy has the top four for the Browns - with Ezra Cleveland being #4, and Wills not being one of the four.

Because Wills played RT or...?

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/final-four-ranking-the-browns-top-options-in-the-first-round

[Tour2ma]

54 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Because Wills played RT or...?

That'd be my guess because Smith picked Wills for us in a Dec, 2019 mock...

But then he took Prince Tega Wanogho, Auburn's LT,  in Round 2.

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/team-mock-drafts/2020/browns-browns-maven-2020-pete-smith

[Ibleedbrown]

So who is better than Ezra?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=acK0KH2uJGc

[Tour2ma]

This guy...

NFL Draft 2020: Andrew Thomas raves about Browns meeting, says it would be 'honor' to block for Baker Mayfield

The former Georgia offensive tackle has also had meetings with the Dolphins and Giants

• 
• by Bryan DeArdo
• @BryanDeArdo
• 4 hrs ago • 1 min read

Andrew Thomas has fielded several virtual interviews leading up to the 2020 NFL draft that includes meetings with the Browns, Dolphins and Giants along with other teams that own one of the top 10 picks in the draft. 

When asked about his meeting with the Browns, Thomas, the standout offensive tackle out of Georgia, said that he had a "very smooth" conversation with Cleveland general manager Andrew Berry. 

"Andrew said I had a lot of the intangibles that they're looking to add to their team, good character," Thomas said, via Mary Cay Kabot of Cleveland.com. "They feel that translates to playing on the field, so I feel that's something I have."

Thomas said that Berry also values his athleticism after playing in Georgia's wide zone scheme, a scheme that helped fellow draft prospect D'Andre Swift amass 6,436 all-purpose yards in three years with the Bulldogs. The 6-foot-5, 315-pound Thomas is also versatile after spending time at both tackle positions during his time at Georgia. In Cleveland, he would play left tackle (where he started during his final two years with the Bulldogs) after the Browns signed Jack Conklin to be their right tackle earlier this offseason.

"I played three years in the SEC at both right tackle and left tackle," said Thomas, the third best lineman in the draft according to CBS Sports prospect rankings. "I dominated every year and I feel like I'm the best tackle in this class."

Thomas said that it would be "an honor" to block for Baker Mayfield, the 2017 Heisman Trophy winner whose Oklahoma Sooners lost to Thomas' Bulldogs in that year's Rose Bowl. Thomas, who also said that he would embrace the challenge of following in Joe Thomas' footsteps if he is drafted by the Browns, would also be excited about joining a Cleveland offense that also includes running backs Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt, receivers Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham Jr. and tight end Austin Hooper. 

"The Browns are a team on the rise," Thomas said. "They have all the pieces they need and it's just a matter of time before they put it all together and compete for a Super Bowl."

Thomas may very well get his wish. CBS NFL draft analysts Ryan Wilson and Chris Trapasso both have him going to the Browns with the 10th overall pick in their most recent mock drafts. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2020-andrew-thomas-raves-about-browns-meeting-says-it-would-be-honor-to-block-for-baker-mayfield/

 

[The Gipper]

Great...but no guarantee he will be there at 10.    And I don't know if trading up is in the cards.

[calfoxwc]

nope, I don't see trading up. But if Thomas could just fall to the Browns, THAT would be OUTSTANDING !

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Great...but no guarantee he will be there at 10.    And I don't know if trading up is in the cards.

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

 

If you don't think that Andrew Berry would be beyond trading up for something he really wants...it is YOU who are missing the obvious...about that guy.  Don't think it will happen,  but with Berry...I would not put it past him.