Would you deal a third rounder for Tua, average arm but faster release than Marino.

[SkippinTurtles]

His culture typically produces tough athletes.  His release and anticipation behind an elite O-Line with stud RB's seems to fit.  Roll the dice on injury prone or not.  Is this Baker's team really? More like Landry's team.  Tua could replace him smoothly on the cheap.  Baker gets hurt, too.  Tua is coming off of broken ribs and a hip.  Let him get healthy and he's right with Burrow.  I swear no troll. I'm Bernie old school.

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Jesus Fucking Christ

[Zombo]

What The Actual Fuck

[jiggins7919]

I'm not sold on him. 

[Unsympathetic]

He has beautiful eyes, and his hair smells like cinnamon!

[SdBacker80]

No the Dolphins won last season in spite of Tua.

He can’t complete passes downfield how will that work in Cleveland?

There are some likely divorces down the road here.  1. Jimmy G.   I’d say no on this but he doesn’t look too bad in playaction and I’d certainly take him over Tua but I don’t know if he’s an upgrade over Baker.

for all you draft pick hoarders hide your eyes.

2. Russ Wilson. Clear upgrade, SB winner and seems to have the leadership intangible.  If he’s truly leaving Seattle I’d certainly get in line.

3. Aaron Rodgers.  This is like the Peyton Manning Denver Broncos type rental. Strangely is less of a fit than the other two but his talent will eventually fit anywhere. 

Draft- I’m digging deep here but Kenny Pickett Pitt and Tanner Morgan Minn. both aren’t ready and wouldn’t see the field until 2023.

 

[Zombo]

Hey, I hear there is a young QB out there who has already taken a team to the playoffs and won, is completing 67% of passes for 8.5 yards per attempt and only 3 Ints this year. Real leader and locker room guy. Great arm, can throw a TD strike 66 yards in the air and was a Heisman Trophy Winner and former #1 pick overall.

And we don't have to trade a thing to get him!

Z

[calfoxwc]

[ballpeen]

No.  If replacing Baker is the thought, I'd extend Keenum for 3 years and draft someone to groom.

 

I do agree there is a outside chance that Baker isn't Ski's type of QB and there is a chance we move on.  Ski seems to like the ball control, game manager type QB while Barker seems best in the hurry up spread the field type O.

 

That doesn't mean Baker isn't good or Ski isn't good.  It might mean they are a bit like oil and vinegar.

Much will be learned on how Ski treats the QB situation moving forward.  I do expect Keenum will probably start next week to give Baker the time to mend up as much as possible.  After that, we'll see.

[ATOM]

ah hell no

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, ballpeen said:

No.  If replacing Baker is the thought, I'd extend Keenum for 3 years and draft someone to groom.

I do agree there is a outside chance that Baker isn't Ski's type of QB and there is a chance we move on.  Ski seems to like the ball control, game manager type QB while Barker seems best in the hurry up spread the field type O.

That doesn't mean Baker isn't good or Ski isn't good.  It might mean they are a bit like oil and vinegar.

Much will be learned on how Ski treats the QB situation moving forward. 1)  I do expect Keenum will probably start next week to give Baker the time to mend up as much as possible.  After that, we'll see.

1) We're preaching to the same choir there 'Peen.  

2) Not what Z wants to hear though. 

Yup, a 100% healthy Mayfield is good enough to take us to the Promised Land. The key word is "healthy".  Which he isn't right now, and won't be until he gets the shoulder operated on.  There was some lengthy discussion on the TNF pregame whether or not the Browns should shell out the $40 million a year extension top NFL QBs are currently getting. You'd have to be an absolute Browns homer to currently think Baker is up there in the Mahomes, Allen, or Rodgers stratosphere. FWIW, I sure don't.  Stay tuned if he'll take a $30 million or so contract (ala Brady) to keep the surrounding talent in place.  (LOL, he's probably getting $10 million from Progressive to do those commercials) Exhibit A is the Chiefs- gee, wish we could afford a defense after we gave Pat the Moon to keep him happy. 

[nickers]

Tua is noodle armed... No thanks...

[hoorta]

12 hours ago, Zombo said:

What The Actual Fuck

Yeah- or trade OBJ for Garoppolo. Sheeze, the crap you hear these days...   Our next three drafts for Aaron Rodgers.    

[AP1]

21 hours ago, Zombo said:

Hey, I hear there is a young QB out there who has already taken a team to the playoffs and won, is completing 67% of passes for 8.5 yards per attempt and only 3 Ints this year. Real leader and locker room guy. Great arm, can throw a TD strike 66 yards in the air and was a Heisman Trophy Winner and former #1 pick overall.

And we don't have to trade a thing to get him!

Z

Spot on!

"...but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

I don't deal I hypotheticals because if my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle.

The Brownies are a dropped punt snap and an egregiously and unforgivably called DPI away from being 6-1. If they're unbeaten do they beat the Cardinals. I don't know. It doesn't matter.

Baker is the best QB the Browns have had in 35 years. Oddly, in his time, Bernie was the best QB the Browns had had in 35 years.

I think Baker can be a productive, Championship-winning QB for the next decade. Is that AFCN Championships? AFC Championships? Super Bowl Championships? I hope all three.

Take out the following:

GB and Favre to Rodgers - each won Super Bowls

What other Teams had starting QBs that were or could be considered one of the best in the history of the respective franchise and have, without skipping a beat, moved from that QB to their next franchise QB with nobody in between?

From 19 Freaking 99 to Week 4 in 2018, the Browns had 30 starting QBs. Now some are ready to move on from the one QB, who is on his 3rd HC (plus one interim) in four years, who has a fractured humerus and torn labrum, that led the team to the playoffs and won a game.

[Neo]

On 10/23/2021 at 2:58 AM, SkippinTurtles said:

Is this Baker's team really? 

YES! What is wrong with people? Baker is a big part of the reason the franchise is where it is now, you would be kidding yourself if you didn't think so. It wasn't too long ago we had this guy named Deshone Kizer. Do you think we win a playoff game against Pittsburgh with Kizer as quarterback?

[SkippinTurtles]

Tua is basically a rookie who makes some mistakes.  Why is Baker better?  Get cheap Tua.  He's healing.

[Zombo]

4 hours ago, SkippinTurtles said:

Why is Baker better?  

Do you watch football?

Z

[Ibleedbrown]

I don’t know about Tua, but l’d take a flyer on Andy Dalton next year for a backup role if Case doesn’t return. 

[Louisville Slugger]

If Baker is going to be out for an extended period of time I would roll the dice on Gardner Minshew. Similar QB that wouldn't cost much but could be an upgrade over Keenum. I'm not a fan of Cam Newton but he's available. If need be do you think Steph can put together a game plan to use him successfully?

[hoorta]

On 10/24/2021 at 6:31 AM, AP1 said:

From 19 Freaking 99 to Week 4 in 2018, the Browns had 30 starting QBs. Now some are ready to move on from the one QB, who is on his 3rd HC (plus one interim) in four years, who has a fractured humerus and torn labrum, that led the team to the playoffs and won a game.

You may be new around here but I like your thinking.  :)  As I posited in another thread- we finally get a QB who's at least decent- and now some guys want to toss him on the scrap heap because he's not the second coming of Otto Graham.  

On 10/24/2021 at 1:47 PM, Neo said:

YES! What is wrong with people? Baker is a big part of the reason the franchise is where it is now, you would be kidding yourself if you didn't think so. It wasn't too long ago we had this guy named Deshone Kizer. Do you think we win a playoff game against Pittsburgh with Kizer as quarterback?

A better question would be- would the Browns even have made the playoffs with a QB like Kizer?   

13 hours ago, SkippinTurtles said:

Tua is basically a rookie who makes some mistakes.  Why is Baker better?  Get cheap Tua.  He's healing.

Because he just is.. As Z said- watch football much?  Notice his not so stellar performance against the Bills with a 40 qbr?  I wouldn't trade the Dolphins a sack of seeds and a six pack for Tua. 

[SdBacker80]

We are too easily accepting  the idea that Baker is a Brown beyond 2022.

Take the we are an 0-16 team lenses off and we had decades of futility…the bar has changed…embrace change if a better alternative is viable 

This is a LOADED roster with a few league average positions groups.  Figure it out. 

 

[SdBacker80]

3 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I don’t know about Tua, but l’d take a flyer on Andy Dalton next year for a backup role if Case doesn’t return. 

Please no.  I’ll keep Case if it means paying something similar to Andy check down Dalton 

[Dutch Oven]

23 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

We are too easily dismissing the idea that Baker is a Brown beyond 2022.

Take the we are an 0-16 team lenses off and we had decades of futility…the bar has changed…embrace change if a better alternative is viable 

This is a LOADED roster with a few league average positions groups.  Figure it out. 

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that the "Well he's not elite but he's plenty good enough" crowd might change their tune after a few years of Baker taking up a huge portion of the salary cap with his new contract and he's the third best QB in the AFC North... 

[Tour2ma]

54 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

This is a LOADED roster

On paper...

Issue I continue to see is the cap impossibility of keeping a loaded roster together. Have I mentioned that here recently?

Still love Baker's fire, his leadership, but his escapability is a concern. Give me a Jackson, Mahomes or even a Murray tad small, but elusive as hell for a SB run when they can survive a season.

 

Should have seen this trend coming given the successes of Dak and Wilson. Imma bet DePo did.... but football-Guy Dorsey? Nope.

Plenty of course-changing QBs in this upcoming draft. No instant turnaround types, but I see solid building-block developers.

 

The Big Bens and Wentzes of the world are the true dinosaurs... that's why MG goes after 'em. Only the pocket guys with the fastest minds and quickest releases need apply for the old way. I only know of one of those... Rodgers. And even he seems resolved to cap-limit induced, time passing him by now.

 

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

We are too easily accepting  the idea that Baker is a Brown beyond 2022.

Take the we are an 0-16 team lenses off and we had decades of futility…the bar has changed…embrace change if a better alternative is viable 

This is a LOADED roster with a few league average positions groups.  Figure it out. 

 

Yeah- I have figured it out. We have a decent qb in Mayfield- now just give me a HOF GOAT instead. Forget guys in the HOF like Marino and Fouts never got a ring?  

Really? You're hoping the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Or the fox who found out those grapes he wanted weren't worth eating.  Is that possible? I doubt it. The Browns can franchise Mayfield if they think he's worth it in 2023. The Chiefs are the poster child what happens when you give your franchise QB a cap busting contract at the expense of the rest of the team. Right now, we have no idea if Baker will take a less than a top dollar extension. And FWIW we don't need to be in any damn rush to find out either. 

So I want "real" better alternatives. Not some  mortgage the future three first round picks+ for a short term shot at the brass ring. That's not Berry's MO- FYI. Or taking a flyer on yet another low first round qb (#22 anyone?) and crossing your fingers he's going to instantly work out.  And just stop with the garbage that guys like Tua, Garoppolo, or God's sakes- Gardner Minshew are currently better alternatives. 

 

[Nero]

7 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that the "Well he's not elite but he's plenty good enough" crowd might change their tune after a few years of Baker taking up a huge portion of the salary cap with his new contract and he's the third best QB in the AFC North... 

Agreed. I like him as our QB for the years to come, but if it doesn't mean mortgaging the rest of the roster. 

We could see how well did Baltimore do for years after they payed top bills to an Average Joe... Flacco.

[ballpeen]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

On paper...

Issue I continue to see is the cap impossibility of keeping a loaded roster together. Have I mentioned that here recently?

Still love Baker's fire, his leadership, but his escapability is a concern. Give me a Jackson, Mahomes or even a Murray tad small, but elusive as hell for a SB run when they can survive a season.

 

Should have seen this trend coming given the successes of Dak and Wilson. Imma bet DePo did.... but football-Guy Dorsey? Nope.

Plenty of course-changing QBs in this upcoming draft. No instant turnaround types, but I see solid building-block developers.

 

The Big Bens and Wentzes of the world are the true dinosaurs... that's why MG goes after 'em. Only the pocket guys with the fastest minds and quickest releases need apply for the old way. I only know of one of those... Rodgers. And even he seems resolved to cap-limit induced, time passing him by now.

 

I agree.  On another board I have been preaching for maybe 15 years that the QB position was changing.  Drop back QB's were on the way out and running type QBs were going to be the thing.  All one had to do was watch what was happening at the HS level.  Almost all high school were leaning towards the spread.

 

Baker can move around, but he can't run. He has no speed, or power like a Tebow had.  

 

I made a comment that Baker and Ski might be a bit like oil and vinegar.  Baker throws well on the run but we don't seen any designed roll-outs.  Neither guy is wrong, and both are good, but they might not be a good fit for each other.

[tiamat63]

One of the issues with wanting a mobile QB is also the type of mobility.

 

Mahomes moves and runs to throw. Same with Murray and Wilson.   To a lesser extent Baker. Passers before mobility. 

Then you have Lamar who had benefited from a reduced and/or slower pass rush because of the gift of his legs. you can't just fly upfield and bend the corner because he'll walk out of the pocket.   The additional half to full second of time has really given Lamar the room to work on growing as a passer, provided the game is within reach.  But when it isn't and he has to utilize all the tools of an elite passer from the pocket? Well... San Diego, Tennessee and Cincy have answered that particular question.  

 

Brady has been slippery as hell in the pocket because of his ability to sense pressure, slide, manipulate the rush and reset all to deliver downfield.  That's my QB preference, but with the way the game has been tailored from midget leagues all the way through college, that type of ability from behind the line has become even more rare.

 

[SdBacker80]

13 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah- I have figured it out. We have a decent qb in Mayfield- now just give me a HOF GOAT instead. Forget guys in the HOF like Marino and Fouts never got a ring?  

Really? You're hoping the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Or the fox who found out those grapes he wanted weren't worth eating.  Is that possible? I doubt it. The Browns can franchise Mayfield if they think he's worth it in 2023. The Chiefs are the poster child what happens when you give your franchise QB a cap busting contract at the expense of the rest of the team. Right now, we have no idea if Baker will take a less than a top dollar extension. And FWIW we don't need to be in any damn rush to find out either. 

So I want "real" better alternatives. Not some  mortgage the future three first round picks+ for a short term shot at the brass ring. That's not Berry's MO- FYI. Or taking a flyer on yet another low first round qb (#22 anyone?) and crossing your fingers he's going to instantly work out.  And just stop with the garbage that guys like Tua, Garoppolo, or God's sakes- Gardner Minshew are currently better alternatives. 

 

So you will pay a decent QB at least 30M a year? And MORE if you actually franchise him.  

I will turn over some rocks namely Rodgers and Wilson IF those names are available  (I suspect they are this offseason).  Short list here although I put Jimmy G in there because of scheme fit- I probably don’t go there.  After the names here and if i strikeout I keep Baker and take a flyer on a draftee.  Love Pickett out of Pitt but he’s playing himself into a day 1 or day 2 pick and I think a guy like Tanner Morgan plays better at the next level.  

But I don’t have heartburn upgrading (big time) the most important position on the field because we may give up  Greedy Williams Jed Wills, Newsome types for the next 3 years.  

Im grateful.  Bakers intangibles are great. He’s played a key role transforming the franchise on a path back to prominence.  I don’t see him putting together a string of complete performances to a super bowl run or going toe to toe with the upper QBs in the playoffs. I see uneven performances some brilliant plays and then some head scratchers…I suspect one, two, three years from now many of you will be here with me  heck some of you are here with me or will be with me here within a year. 

And This a Super Bowl caliber roster. You could argue we will get better bounces in the years to come or we may play collectively better as a team down the road but the collection of talent this season will likely never be better…but I see a few long term roster decisions that in IMO are being made this year (Harrison, Hooper, OBJ). Are any of you jumping to keep these guys on?  Now the toughies Ward and Baker…

I disagree on needing a mobile QB.  We need a QB that sees the field a little better doesn’t hang onto the ball constantly while not seeing wide open WRs and then makes throws he should just a tad better than What Baker does. I don’t think I’m even calling for a GOAT QB here?  And Some of you think the line isn’t doing its job when it’s Baker holding the dang ball too long. I suspect Baker may improve a little but will his current setup (line backs WRs  play caller collectively) ever be better?

end of rant…I’ll stop before I go onto Joe Woods 

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

So you will pay a decent QB at least 30M a year? And MORE if you actually franchise him.  

I will turn over some rocks namely Rodgers and Wilson IF those names are available  (I suspect they are this offseason).  Short list here although I put Jimmy G in there because of scheme fit- I probably don’t go there.  After the names here and if i strikeout I keep Baker and take a flyer on a draftee.  Love Pickett out of Pitt but he’s playing himself into a day 1 or day 2 pick and I think a guy like Tanner Morgan plays better at the next level.  

But I don’t have heartburn upgrading (big time) the most important position on the field because we may give up  Greedy Williams Jed Wills, Newsome types for the next 3 years.  

Im grateful.  Bakers intangibles are great. He’s played a key role transforming the franchise on a path back to prominence.  I don’t see him putting together a string of complete performances to a super bowl run or going toe to toe with the upper QBs in the playoffs. I see uneven performances some brilliant plays and then some head scratchers…I suspect one, two, three years from now many of you will be here with me  heck some of you are here with me or will be with me here within a year. 

And This a Super Bowl caliber roster. You could argue we will get better bounces in the years to come or we may play collectively better as a team down the road but the collection of talent this season will likely never be better…but I see a few long term roster decisions that in IMO are being made this year (Harrison, Hooper, OBJ). Are any of you jumping to keep these guys on?  Now the toughies Ward and Baker…

I disagree on needing a mobile QB.  We need a QB that sees the field a little better doesn’t hang onto the ball constantly while not seeing wide open WRs and then makes throws he should just a tad better than What Baker does. I don’t think I’m even calling for a GOAT QB here?  And Some of you think the line isn’t doing its job when it’s Baker holding the dang ball too long. I suspect Baker may improve a little but will his current setup (line backs WRs  play caller collectively) ever be better?

end of rant…I’ll stop before I go onto Joe Woods 

You're contradicting yourself. If "the future is now". Then I already told you Rodgers or Wilson aren't worth the 3 first round picks+ that the asking price is going to be for ONE shot at a title.  As I mentioned- just having those aforementioned guys is absolutely NOT a 100% guarantee of a Super Bowl win. Garropolo is not any better than Baker either- you're at best treading water. Incidentally, plenty of QBs worse than Baker HAVE won Super Bowls- if the TEAM around them was good enough- McMahon, Williams, Rypien, Dilfer. Sorry- you're playing Madden, and Andrew Berry isn't going to follow your suggestions. It takes more than a great team- a little (or maybe more than a little) luck to win a Super Bowl is involved in the process. Like the almost perfect Patriots getting beat by one of the Giants catching a pass off the top of his helmet. Or an untimely interception in the SB. Browns well could have made a Super Bowl if not for a nobody named Jeremiah Castille. Old enough to remember him?    

And taking a flyer on a college kid? Har, har, we failed on that one upside of 20 times. Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen aren't exactly setting the NFL on fire, in case you haven't noticed. Yeah- and by the time your hot shot QB has been in the league a few years- the rest of your nucleus of star power surrounding him is either over the hill or off to $$ greener pastures.  FWIW, I'm not adverse to taking a project QB in the lower rounds. 

BTW- $30 million IS the going rate for a starting NFL QB on their second contract. Don't believe me?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/quarterback/limit-100/ 

There's plenty of guys in that non-elite second tier making that much.