Would you deal a third rounder for Tua, average arm but faster release than Marino.

[SdBacker80]

10 minutes ago, hoorta said:

You're contradicting yourself. If "the future is now". Then I already told you Rodgers or Wilson aren't worth the 3 first round picks+ that the asking price is going to be for ONE shot at a title.  As I mentioned- just having those aforementioned guys is absolutely NOT a 100% guarantee of a Super Bowl win. Garropolo is not any better than Baker either- you're at best treading water. Sorry- you're playing Madden, and Andrew Berry isn't going to follow your suggestions. It takes more than a great team- a little (or maybe more than a little) luck to win a Super Bowl is involved in the process. Like the almost perfect Patriots getting beat by one of the Giants catching a pass off the top of his helmet. Or an untimely interception in the SB. Browns well could have made a Super Bowl if not for a nobody named Jeremiah Castille. Old enough to remember him?    

And taking a flyer on a college kid? Har, har, we failed on that one upside of 20 times. Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen aren't exactly setting the NFL on fire, in case you haven't noticed. Yeah- and by the time your hot shot QB has been in the league a few years- the rest of your nucleus of star power surrounding him is either over the hill or off to $$ greener pastures.  FWIW, I'm not adverse to taking a project QB in the lower rounds. 

BTW- $30 million IS the going rate for a starting NFL QB on their second contract. Don't believe me?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/quarterback/limit-100/ 

There's plenty of guys in that non-elite second tier making that much. 

 

I think Russ and Aaron have shown they have more than one shot at title so there’s that. Rodgers is coming off an MVP year. Wilson is 32.

If you think Baker is still the guy there is no use in debating this issue 

I understand the going rate.  Im not a causal fan.  Understanding and agreeing with paying for uneven average QB play are two different concepts 

[hoorta]

9 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I think Russ and Aaron have shown they have more than one shot at title so there’s that. Rodgers is coming off an MVP year. Wilson is 32.

If you think Baker is still the guy there is no use in debating this issue 

I understand the going rate.  Im not a causal fan.  Understanding and agreeing with paying for uneven average QB play are two different concepts 

Rodgers isn't coming here (he's going to call his shot), plus he's sort of an asshole. He's probably going to want a Mahomes level payday- and we're seeing what that's doing to the Chiefs. Wilson will likely be reupped by the Seahawks.  Like I said- you're playing Madden.  

MHO- There's no rush to "gotta have a top tier guy NOW" or we're never going to get there. We have the rest of this year- and next if necessary if we want to pay Baker- or not. And we have no idea what sort of contract he's going to be willing to accept. You're forgetting when he's healthy Baker (with some help of a boatload of turnovers) won the first Browns playoff game in a generation. Sometimes- it's better to be lucky than good. I've pointed out in other threads the Ravens were plenty lucky to have that 5-1 record going into the Cinci game.

You responded before I edited my post...  

So...   Incidentally, plenty of QBs worse than Baker HAVE won Super Bowls- if the TEAM around them was good enough- McMahon, Williams, Rypien, Dilfer. I'm not blind to the fact plenty of Baker bashing has been going around questioning if he's "elite" or not. The answer is- he doesn't have to be, as long as the rest of the supporting cast is.  I'm very fond of reminding fans once upon a time, Lawrence Taylor made Joe Montana look like Joe Blow in a playoff game.  

 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Rodgers isn't coming here (he's going to call his shot), plus he's sort of an asshole. He's probably going to want a Mahomes level payday- and we're seeing what that's doing to the Chiefs. Wilson will likely be reupped by the Seahawks.  Like I said- you're playing Madden.  

MHO- There's no rush to "gotta have a top tier guy NOW" or we're never going to get there. We have the rest of this year- and next if necessary if we want to pay Baker- or not. And we have no idea what sort of contract he's going to be willing to accept. You're forgetting when he's healthy Baker (with some help of a boatload of turnovers) won the first Browns playoff game in a generation. Sometimes- it's better to be lucky than good. I've pointed out in other threads the Ravens were plenty lucky to have that 5-1 record going into the Cinci game.

You responded before I edited my post...  

So...   Incidentally, plenty of QBs worse than Baker HAVE won Super Bowls- if the TEAM around them was good enough- McMahon, Williams, Rypien, Dilfer. I'm not blind to the fact plenty of Baker bashing has been going around questioning if he's "elite" or not. The answer is- he doesn't have to be, as long as the rest of the supporting cast is.  I'm very fond of reminding fans once upon a time, Lawrence Taylor made Joe Montana look like Joe Blow in a playoff game.  

 

It isn’t Madden…and I don’t have enough time and energy to post all of the trade speculation links with both…and I spent the whole off season hearing about Aaron Rodgers divorce from the Packers.  Tell me if I’m wrong.  BTW I’ve never heard of a modern day superstar forcing himself off a roster.  HAPPENs all the time!!!

Madden is discussing Josh Allen to the Browns after he wins a super bowl with the Bills. 

If they are on the block…I say inquire and make an offer.  That’s all.  Just MHO.  

If  they don’t they are obviously okay with Baker. 

I would say with the current roster composition our time is now so we can fart around with an average QB that might be the exception just like Ryphien Dilfer or others that you post or inquire and offer with the two I mentioned above.  

God Forbid we hang onto a 32nd overall pick and others for a QB like Aaron or Russ. 

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

It isn’t Madden…and I don’t have enough time and energy to post all of the trade speculation links with both…and I spent the whole off season hearing about Aaron Rodgers divorce from the Packers.  Tell me if I’m wrong.  BTW I’ve never heard of a modern day superstar forcing himself off a roster.  HAPPENs all the time!!!

Madden is discussing Josh Allen to the Browns after he wins a super bowl with the Bills. 

If they are on the block…I say inquire and make an offer.  That’s all.  Just MHO.  

If  they don’t they are obviously okay with Baker. 

I would say with the current roster composition our time is now so we can fart around with an average QB that might be the exception just like Ryphien Dilfer or others that you post or inquire and offer with the two I mentioned above.  

God Forbid we hang onto a 32nd overall pick and others for a QB like Aaron or Russ. 

Yep, Rodgers is a multiple League MVP and has a Super Bowl win to his credit. That's ONE in 15 seasons. His playoff record is 11-8. He's not the once in multiple generations ageless Tom Brady. I'm done- just keep on reading that speculation. It doesn't mean jack shit until after the season. FWIW, a lot of that crap is just clickbait anyway. You may say inquire, and Berry may well inquire about Rodgers. And when the Packers GM tells him sure, three first round picks, a second, and Baker Mayfield- yeah right. That was the bar that got Stafford (who doesn't have close to Rodger's pedigree) from the Lions to the Rams, and there's no way in hell the Packers are going to take any less. There's your reality. Berry and Depodesta aren't that stupid to give up that much, and that's not how they're going about team building anyway. 

Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it, looks like that's what you're Jonesying for.. One and Done. Sure, the Broncos won a Super Bowl with an end of the road Peyton Manning- and they've pretty much been in the dumpster ever since.  Even in your fantasy scenario- should you get one of those guys- you're right there in the Chiefs up the Missouri without a paddle when you have to dismantle the team to pay their cap busting contract the following year.  

PS- Two things that will interest me 1) What the Texans will be able to garner for the certain to be moved "Damaged Goods" Deshawn Watson before the trade deadline. 2) and if the Rams don't win it all with their "All In" on Stafford in February, you can bet I'll be LMAO.  I haven't forgotten how their owner Stan Kroenke royally screwed over Saint Louis when he moved the Rams. 

[5150k9]

On 10/23/2021 at 3:50 AM, Zombo said:

What The Actual Fuck

This sums up the fact that this thread was actually created.

[SdBacker80]

13 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yep, Rodgers is a multiple League MVP and has a Super Bowl win to his credit. That's ONE in 15 seasons. His playoff record is 11-8. He's not the once in multiple generations ageless Tom Brady. I'm done- just keep on reading that speculation. It doesn't mean jack shit until after the season. FWIW, a lot of that crap is just clickbait anyway. You may say inquire, and Berry may well inquire about Rodgers. And when the Packers GM tells him sure, three first round picks, a second, and Baker Mayfield- yeah right. That was the bar that got Stafford (who doesn't have close to Rodger's pedigree) from the Lions to the Rams, and there's no way in hell the Packers are going to take any less. There's your reality. Berry and Depodesta aren't that stupid to give up that much, and that's not how they're going about team building anyway. 

Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it, looks like that's what you're Jonesying for.. One and Done. Sure, the Broncos won a Super Bowl with an end of the road Peyton Manning- and they've pretty much been in the dumpster ever since.  Even in your fantasy scenario- should you get one of those guys- you're right there in the Chiefs up the Missouri without a paddle when you have to dismantle the team to pay their cap busting contract the following year.  

PS- Two things that will interest me 1) What the Texans will be able to garner for the certain to be moved "Damaged Goods" Deshawn Watson before the trade deadline. 2) and if the Rams don't win it all with their "All In" on Stafford in February, you can bet I'll be LMAO.  I haven't forgotten how their owner Stan Kroenke royally screwed over Saint Louis when he moved the Rams. 

You are casually dismissing one Super Bowl in 15 years as if the Browns have a stacked trophy case in Berea.  
 

Id say the Rams are in a better spot than they were with Goff.  Isn’t the goal to make your team better? 

I’m actually fine with Baker now because we can afford to build a team around him (which he needs).  We are hearing 30-35M to extend- now you start peeling away the support around him that he desperately needs. 
 

There is no sense in arguing you value draft picks more than I do.  Not that I want to trade away picks every year.  I just believe we have young roster now (thanks to having multitudes of picks in years past) but we are a signal caller away.  I think we disagree here too.  
 

And while you are correct we would need to pay the new QB I’d argue we’d finally have a QB that doesn’t need support in every position. 

[Unsympathetic]

What's happening right now to Mahomes shows the value of the rest of the team to every QB.. no team of one can succeed.  KC is not a super bowl contender this year due simply to life with Mahomes' contract.. they don't have cash to pay difference-makers at enough other spots [OL, DL, DB, WR] and some of the people they did pay [Frank Clark] aren't performing any better than what they might expect from league-average replacements.

This impacts the Baker contract because not only does it decrease the "max" for a sensational talent.. Baker isn't at that sensational level and so his offer must necessarily be even lower than the decreased max.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

What's happening right now to Mahomes shows the value of the rest of the team to every QB.. no team of one can succeed.  KC is not a super bowl contender this year due simply to life with Mahomes' contract.. they don't have cash to pay difference-makers at enough other spots [OL, DL, DB, WR] and some of the people they did pay [Frank Clark] aren't performing any better than what they might expect from league-average replacements.

This impacts the Baker contract because not only does it decrease the "max" for a sensational talent.. Baker isn't at that sensational level and so his offer must necessarily be even lower than the decreased max.

Things would be better if Mecole Hardman and Clyde Edwards Helaire were better…  Two first round picks there and also as you mentioned Frank Clark. Two premium picks misses and one big free agent whiff. 

[tiamat63]

On 10/26/2021 at 6:47 PM, hoorta said:

 

So...   Incidentally, plenty of QBs worse than Baker HAVE won Super Bowls- if the TEAM around them was good enough- McMahon, Williams, Rypien, Dilfer.



 

Include Flacco in there.   Only difference is those teams didn't have staying power and paying their QB's, such as the Ravens did with Flacco, held back their rosters and cap room.    Lesson here - want long term shots a playoff/SB windows? You NEED an elite QB.   Otherwise you'll get a magical run and then nonsense on the in between years.

 

2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

What's happening right now to Mahomes shows the value of the rest of the team to every QB.. no team of one can succeed.  KC is not a super bowl contender this year due simply to life with Mahomes' contract.. they don't have cash to pay difference-makers at enough other spots [OL, DL, DB, WR] and some of the people they did pay [Frank Clark] aren't performing any better than what they might expect from league-average replacements.

This impacts the Baker contract because not only does it decrease the "max" for a sensational talent.. Baker isn't at that sensational level and so his offer must necessarily be even lower than the decreased max.

Agreed.  No QB can overcome severely deficient talent, especially up front. But Mahomes is also having issues with turnovers this latest stretch of games because his fine line of brilliance and stupidity has clocked on the latter of late.   You can't always get away with some of the throws he has been making and his casual approach to being used to it has been a shock to the system of the KC offense.   I mentioned it in some past thread - they live for the deep ball, the flash and the celebration.  Make them play patient and physical and these have been the results.    A high flying team with zero defense.     The 2000's Oregon Ducks of the NFL, in a nutshell.

 

48 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Things would be better if Mecole Hardman and Clyde Edwards Helaire were better…  Two first round picks there and also as you mentioned Frank Clark. Two premium picks misses and one big free agent whiff. 

Hardman was a 2nd round pick.   He's a decent player, but unlike Tyreek who became a complete receiver, Hardman appears to be more of a gadget type.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

1) Include Flacco in there.   Only difference is those teams didn't have staying power and paying their QB's, such as the Ravens did with Flacco, held back their rosters and cap room.    Lesson here - want long term shots a playoff/SB windows? You NEED an elite QB.   Otherwise you'll get a magical run and then nonsense on the in between years.

2) Agreed.  No QB can overcome severely deficient talent, especially up front. But Mahomes is also having issues with turnovers this latest stretch of games because his fine line of brilliance and stupidity has clocked on the latter of late.   You can't always get away with some of the throws he has been making and his casual approach to being used to it has been a shock to the system of the KC offense.   I mentioned it in some past thread - they live for the deep ball, the flash and the celebration.  Make them play patient and physical and these have been the results.    A high flying team with zero defense.     The 2000's Oregon Ducks of the NFL, in a nutshell.

 

1) Of course, I 100% agree that for sustained (like a decade long) success you had better have an elite QB.  The question is- and you're seeing it from a lot of quarters- is Baker "elite" enough?  My observation was plenty of guys around here- after 57 years without a Championship- would be more than thrilled with a "one and done". Count me in on that group. I've mentioned it a bunch of times- one of my greatest regrets in life was not using some of my paper route money, buying a ticket and hopping on the bus downtown to catch the 1964 Championship game. Can't be more than another year or two.. Right? Wrong.   Two QB examples for you to comment on if you'd like to.  Since I live in Bengal Land..  1) Andy Dalton- good enough to make the playoffs 4 seasons running, and flopped in all of them. Is that the best we can expect out of Baker? 2) Matt Ryan.. I think you can safely say he's "elite" but Mr. Bad Luck ala Archie Manning.  

2) Preaching to the Choir. I already duly noted they had to let a bunch of their OL starters go to pay for Mahomes cap busting contract... I could easily envision 6 more losses on their schedule. To make the playoffs- they're going to have to beat the Raiders twice, Chargers on the road, sweep Denver, and pull at least one win out against the Cowboys, Steelers, and Bengals. Not easy.  Haven't heard from Pat Mahomo of late, have we?  I did look up the stats and his qbr has tanked in the last few games.