Your Opinion On Student Loan Forgiveness

[D Bone]

Just looking for other opinions on student loan repayment and forgiveness, and here's mine:

My wife and I put my daughter through her undergrad and we don't owe a penny, but her 3 year doctorate school (PT) was 100% on her and she knew the APR when she signed on the bottom line for her dreams. Her current loan total is at $117K ($111 for school $6K for interest accrued while in school and before the freeze). Her APR is 7.9% on her government backed loans.

 I personally don't want to see the feds forgive a large percentage of a student's debt, much less all of it. I do favor a reduction in the APR to better align with today's world as well as a 10% loan forgiveness of the current balance.

^ I'm in favor for that even though a reduction in APR will in no way help her as once the freeze is over, my wife and I are going to pay her loan off in full and then she is going to pay us back with zero interest. She has already saved $21K during the 18 months she has been working as a full time Physio (Physical Therapist in Australia... freaking weirdos) which she will send to us immediately and will then pay 8-10K a year until we are all good..... A 10% forgiveness would be awesome though.

I have 2 sides of me regarding this. 

1) If we (the USA) want to keep leading the world in the tech age, then we need educated people to do it and making higher education so hard to afford will shrink the pool of people that are willing to chase their dreams.... 7.9% is beyond ridiculous in my humble opinion.

2) The other side of me sees some of these kids going to university and gaining a degree in a field that in no way will help them attain a lucrative career and they shouldn't have a penny forgiven because they chose a worthless degree.

Off Topic) We also need trades people too, and I wonder if today's younger manbun types know that they can make $65 an hour as an electrician in SoCal and have no student debt to repay. They'll have nice muscles, a few scars, a nice home and a lot of cool toys that go really fast.... but I digress, that's a whole different topic. 

What say you? 

 

 

 

[MLD Woody]

I was fortunate enough to have most of my undergrad paid for by my parents. I also had paid internships and co-ops while I was there, and I had the credits to graduate in 7 semesters. That being said, I still had about $30k in student loan debt, which all things considered, put me in a much better place than a lot of people around my age. I paid that off within a few years once I started working. 

I finished my MBA last year and I ended up with about another $30k in debt. I went to a budget program instead of one of the top schools I could get into (they were like $140k+). It worked out for me too. 

 

With that in mind, even though I paid off my loans, I would be in favor of some form of forgiveness. Tuition costs have absolutely skyrocketed over the decades. You can look at any chart on the matter and see tuition costs growing much faster than any other area, including healthcare, and far outpacing inflation. Massive student loan debt has crippled a large portion of my generation. Something needs to be done about it, clearly. It isn't sustainable. 

A few thoughts:

- I'm not sure if you just forgive everything outright, or you forgive up to a certain amount. And then going forward, each student has some stipend to use each year. It might not pay for Northwestern out of pocket but it'll get you through Kent State, something like that. $10k total or 10% would be barely anything. Almost a laughable attempt to correct the issue. But it is something. You could just make all community colleges free and then bring down the cost of everything else (or offer subsidies to students). I think a cap is fair too. You can't keep getting more chances if you change your mind on the degree.

- I'm also a little torn on the type of degree. I worked my ass off to graduate with an engineering degree. Should I get the same level of forgiveness as a marketing major? I mean, I don't want to be degree elitist either, and you could argue the benefit in the extra work is the career that comes after it. You get into a weird area if we start determining which degree matter and which don't. I mean I could just say STEM degrees could forgiveness and fine arts / liberal arts don't... but that doesn't seem fair. 

- I also think that, if you're pursuing a graduate degree, you shouldn't be eligible for forgiveness. At that point you're actively making the decision to continue your academic career, where it could be argued the undergrad is just necessary. I didn't need to get an MBA. I did it knowing exactly what the costs would be. It wouldn't be fair for me to get forgiveness on something that isn't necessary. 

 

 

We absolutely need more people in trades. They definitely can make a ton of money too. A few years ago I was visiting a supplier for some CNC machined parts. There was a guy in his late 20s making $40 an hour, before OT, because he could do everything from CAD design, to CNC programming, to setup, to running the machine and checking parts. Then you have tool and die, welding, machine repair, electricians, etc. There definitely needs to be more of an emphasis on these vocational options and the earning potential for them.

But don't be so quick to blame "man buns" or however you want to negatively stereotype millennials. This shift happened a while ago. Over my 8 years in manufacturing I rarely saw skilled trades under 50. We'd go to higher new guys and they'd be at the end of their careers. This has been going on for a while. Plus the fact you have to put some blame on the generation raising these kids to not even consider vocational schools. 

[Canton Dawg]

6 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I was fortunate enough to have most of my undergrad paid for by my parents. 
 

Plus the fact you have to put some blame on the generation raising these kids to not even consider vocational schools. 

Here’s the beginning and the end of your post.

So are you blaming your parents?

[Westside Steve]

My thoughts on the entire student loan debacle are thatthere should be grown-ups in the room when kids are signing up for truly ridiculous College curriculums. If your a girl is going to get a doctorate in PT which I am assuming is physical therapy that's going to be a pretty highly paid career. Sounds like a great investment to me. I do know a lot of people in the medical field and one of the reasons the bar is so high for PT is just that. Unlike anesthesiology in which a good number of patients die on the table physical therapy is a relatively low-risk High profit field. For that reason they don't want every Tom Dick and Harry getting that degree and watering down the field.

I'll post a couple more thoughts later but back to the grown-up in the room. Somebody should do a little research into the student and decide whether or not that person will ever be able to make a living with their chosen field of study. 3 people off the top of my head that I know well who have defaulted on student loans, I could have told you at the outset that these people were never going to work in the field.

Good job on your part paying off the loan she should easily be able to pay you back at a zero interest. I could live with the government cutting the interest rate but not letting people completely off the hook.

And I get it college-aged people have a lot of fun at school and it gives them the opportunity to feel Superior because they are students. But at the end of the day if that investment was never meant to pay off, it's a waste of their money and a waste of the government's money.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

My thoughts on the entire student loan debacle are thatthere should be grown-ups in the room when kids are signing up for truly ridiculous College curriculums. If your a girl is going to get a doctorate in PT which I am assuming is physical therapy that's going to be a pretty highly paid career. Sounds like a great investment to me. I do know a lot of people in the medical field and one of the reasons the bar is so high for PT is just that. Unlike anesthesiology in which a good number of patients die on the table physical therapy is a relatively low-risk High profit field. For that reason they don't want every Tom Dick and Harry getting that degree and watering down the field.

I'll post a couple more thoughts later but back to the grown-up in the room. Somebody should do a little research into the student and decide whether or not that person will ever be able to make a living with their chosen field of study. 3 people off the top of my head that I know well who have defaulted on student loans, I could have told you at the outset that these people were never going to work in the field.

Good job on your part paying off the loan she should easily be able to pay you back at a zero interest. I could live with the government cutting the interest rate but not letting people completely off the hook.

And I get it college-aged people have a lot of fun at school and it gives them the opportunity to feel Superior because they are students. But at the end of the day if that investment was never meant to pay off, it's a waste of their money and a waste of the government's money.

WSS

- fyi, I know people that got degrees in engineering, cuter science, etc they are still paying student loans off as they approach / hit 30. This isn't an issue exclusive to "fake" degrees. They've all been steadily employed too. The student loan debt is just another anchor they need to deal with as they try to take other steps in their life, or one that amplifies the impact of other unforseen expenses. 

- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?

[calfoxwc]

13 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?

eh...you are kidding here, right? for the first time? Can you explain?

[Westside Steve]

11 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

- fyi, I know people that got degrees in engineering, cuter science, etc they are still paying student loans off as they approach / hit 30. This isn't an issue exclusive to "fake" degrees. They've all been steadily employed too. The student loan debt is just another anchor they need to deal with as they try to take other steps in their life, or one that amplifies the impact of other unforseen expenses. 

- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?

Oh please, you most certainly understand. By the way that's a general statement not even particularly aimed at you.

As far as the first point yes, life is tough. Not everything works out the way you want it to. But more often when you make a foolish decision in the first place.

WSS

[Vambo]

If the student doesn't pay their student loan the government should take it from their Social Security payments the student is due later.

 

Instead of teaching kids CRT, gender studies, gay pride, boys can be girls and girls can be boys etc...they should be learning math and accounting, money management, calculating loans and interest,economics,  responsibilities etc...

[calfoxwc]

3 minutes ago, Vambo said:

If the student doesn't pay their student loan the government should take it from their Social Security payments the student is due later.

well, if the loan is from a bank, they should repossess your house eventually. Or, the gov could draft you into service as a janitor in some government building til it's paid off.....

   Back in the day, it was $224 bucks for a semester. Then they went to quarters. After the service ('77) it was a lot higher, but I had the GI bill.

Now, it's so freaking expensive, doesn't have to be. Cyber security would be great. Spanish flamenco dancing degree, not so much.

[Vambo]

2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

well, if the loan is from a bank, they should repossess your house eventually. Or, the gov could draft you into service as a janitor in some government building til it's paid off.....

   Back in the day, it was $224 bucks for a semester. Then they went to quarters. After the service ('77) it was a lot higher, but I had the GI bill.

Now, it's so freaking expensive, doesn't have to be. Cyber security would be great. Spanish flamenco dancing degree, not so much.

They could always take the military route get the college bonuses and save money for school. 

[MLD Woody]

30 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Oh please, you most certainly understand. By the way that's a general statement not even particularly aimed at you.

As far as the first point yes, life is tough. Not everything works out the way you want it to. But more often when you make a foolish decision in the first place.

WSS

No, I honestly don't. Not in the context for which you used it. You're saying just the act of being a college student makes someone feel superior, and I disagree. But alright. 

 

Ok, yeah, things happen. But you're painting this issue as only being detrimental to those that made "bad" decisions with their degrees. You do that because then it is easier for you to internally justify your position (just like all of the "free shit" stuff, etc). But I'm telling you that isn't true, and it is a disingenuous way to frame this issue. It is affecting a lot of younger people, both with "fake" and "real" degrees. 

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

No, I honestly don't. Not in the context for which you used it. You're saying just the act of being a college student makes someone feel superior, and I disagree. But alright. 

 

Ok, yeah, things happen. But you're painting this issue as only being detrimental to those that made "bad" decisions with their degrees. You do that because then it is easier for you to internally justify your position (just like all of the "free shit" stuff, etc). But I'm telling you that isn't true, and it is a disingenuous way to frame this issue. It is affecting a lot of younger people, both with "fake" and "real" degrees. 

Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.

By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.

And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.

But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.

(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)

By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.

WSS 

[Axe]

Reduce the APR. Don't alter principle owed.

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

I agree.  Reduce the Apr but make them pay back the entire loan.

[D Bone]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I can definitely see both sides, but if I were to have to choose one side only it would be to make higher education more affordable.

1) I don't want to see a flat number forgiven off of a student's debt as that would not be fair. Say they forgive 30K from all student's debt, that would mean much different things to someone with 33K of debt vs someone with 173K.... simply not fair. A percentage is the only way everyone gets the same benefit. 

2) I keep getting back to the outrageous interest rate (for my daughter at least) and we as a nation can and should do far better for our people. 1%-2% sounds reasonable for the government to still make money, and then of course, spend it on something useful. 

3) My daughter dreamed of UCLA but that was never even a glimmer of hope for her and she knew that from a young age. Tuition for UCLA/USC was right at 50K per year.... just fucking tuition!

She had her choice of any Cal State school and she chose Sonoma State University, and we got her BS degree for 68K all in. She got it in 4 years, had a few grants and worked as a mentor for 2 years and a food server for the other 2, and was able to save all of that to use for her 1st year of PT school room and board in Australia. Her mom and I paid the other 2 years... Man it's nice to finally have her off the payroll.

4) These universities that charge unbelievable amounts need to be held accountable as well, but so do the kids, and moreover their parents for encouraging/allowing them to go when there are other far more affordable options available. Again, if you are old enough to go to university then you are old enough to read the loan papers you are signing... if not, then you are doomed from day 1 and that is not the governments problem. 

5) Every time they extend the freeze it helps my wife and I as it gives my daughter more time to save money to immediately send us reducing the amount we have to pay. So selfishly I hope they extend the damn thing through 2023. 

 

 

 

 

[Vambo]

The money spent here could have made a payment or two or three!

[MLD Woody]

8 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.

By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.

And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.

But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.

(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)

By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.

WSS 

The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe

I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way. 

Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved. 

A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)

I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid. 

But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.

 

 

As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else. 

[MLD Woody]

7 hours ago, D Bone said:

Thanks for the replies everyone. I can definitely see both sides, but if I were to have to choose one side only it would be to make higher education more affordable.

1) I don't want to see a flat number forgiven off of a student's debt as that would not be fair. Say they forgive 30K from all student's debt, that would mean much different things to someone with 33K of debt vs someone with 173K.... simply not fair. A percentage is the only way everyone gets the same benefit. 

2) I keep getting back to the outrageous interest rate (for my daughter at least) and we as a nation can and should do far better for our people. 1%-2% sounds reasonable for the government to still make money, and then of course, spend it on something useful. 

3) My daughter dreamed of UCLA but that was never even a glimmer of hope for her and she knew that from a young age. Tuition for UCLA/USC was right at 50K per year.... just fucking tuition!

She had her choice of any Cal State school and she chose Sonoma State University, and we got her BS degree for 68K all in. She got it in 4 years, had a few grants and worked as a mentor for 2 years and a food server for the other 2, and was able to save all of that to use for her 1st year of PT school room and board in Australia. Her mom and I paid the other 2 years... Man it's nice to finally have her off the payroll.

4) These universities that charge unbelievable amounts need to be held accountable as well, but so do the kids, and moreover their parents for encouraging/allowing them to go when there are other far more affordable options available. Again, if you are old enough to go to university then you are old enough to read the loan papers you are signing... if not, then you are doomed from day 1 and that is not the governments problem. 

5) Every time they extend the freeze it helps my wife and I as it gives my daughter more time to save money to immediately send us reducing the amount we have to pay. So selfishly I hope they extend the damn thing through 2023. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're right in that the main issue is the skyrocketing cost of college tuition

 

1) why should a student get more forgiveness just because they chose to go to a more expensive school? Why should a student get more forgiveness because they chose to pursue graduate level degrees? It would seen that doing it on a % basis would make it so that each student DOESN'T get the same benefit. 

2) couldn't hurt

4) Not sure about the "old enough" statement. We're saying that people at that age aren't even old enough to drink beer, but they're old enough to independently sign up for life crippling student loan debt? Some students aren't even 18 by the time they start college. 

And to the other point, if I wasn't getting a practical degree worth the cost for the school I chose my parents wouldn't have helped contribute as much at they did. The investment would need to pay off.

 

[Axe]

10 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe

 

I'm retired you stupid cockaholic.

 

What I alluded to was how much in taxes I would, and have paid this yr.

You pay taxes when you sell businesses and properties you moron. You pay taxes on your current properties dumbass. You pay tangible taxes on items and inventory within your businesses. You pay sales tax on goods that are sold that leave your business' property. You pay taxes for being self employed. etc etc.  I paid a LOT of taxes. That's not "bragging" you fuckin imbecile! That's complaining! Get your facts straight before my name comes out of your mouth.

[The Cysko Kid]

I think the whole process has to be reevaluated and reformed frankly. Some of these things that people are paying far out the ass to go to college for shouldn't even be offered. Theres like four to five professions that college is truly necessary to perform. Medical, engineering, law, finance, research science... I'm sure there's maybe a couple others. Any and all of the rest could be covered by apprenticeship and maybe workshops here and there. 

Rooking kids into years and years of debt to give them a worthless degree in art or marketing or music or, you know. Whatever you name it is a pure scheme and I would bust that shit up in a hurry. Kick it down to trade schools or even lower. 

I spent seven years in com-nav in the air force and simultaneously got a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering and while I didn't pay full price for college on account of the gi bill it still wasnt cheap, and the truth is I ended up learning far more in the field from the guys who came before me and the reason for that is because i was considerably more serious at that time. More ready to learn and achieve. And now at 42 I'm the guy who's doing the ojt and teaching the younger guys how to do the job. I believe in that model. It worked for human beings as long as jobs/skills/trades have been a thing. The classroom is for theory and applied theory and thats what belongs there. You dont learn how to solve real world problems in a classroom. 

 

[The Cysko Kid]

I think kids out of high school should do a rumspringa like the Amish do. Alright kid, go out there and live it up. Sow your wild oats. Come back and see me when you get serious.

 

Don't get straight into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to get a degree in identity studies...there's not enough of a market for something like that. Not a degree in art or marketing. You either have the talent or you don't. Anyone can pass the class the question is do you have the talent? 

[Axe]

11 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

 The classroom is for theory and applied theory and thats what belongs there. You dont learn how to solve real world problems in a classroom. 

 

This ^

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

10 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon.

[Westside Steve]

I don't think anybody probably has a complaint with lowering the a p r.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

12 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe

I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way. 

Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved. 

A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)

I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid. 

But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.

 

 

As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else. 

1 I don't remember Axe saying anything of the sort.

2 it is my way of framing it because I think it's true. College students have a tendency to be condescending little snots. And looking down their noses at people in trailer parks who work low-paying jobs.

3 don't be silly I've never denied there are differing values to degrees. Still people with work ethic are more successful. More successful than someone that got a social promotion high school diploma. It will be the same deal with 4 more years is free with absolutely no reason to work hard or not work hard. Especially, if you know this happens, the government has to pay your rent and food while you are in college. And the institutions of Higher Learning which really are businesses will find some way for dimwits to pass a class or two to keep the government-run money pouring in. And no doubt s*** happens. If there are too many marketing majors the demand goes down. But if everybody has an associate's or bachelor's degree and something then those degrees won't mean anything. Then the government has to pay for Masters and doctorates. As far as prestige? Then the deadbeats will be crying but they have to have a degree Stanford or Yale or Harvard and that Cleveland State just doesn't cut the mustard.

4 back to the previous reply. High schools find a way to pass people. If college is now paid for by the government colleges will find a way to pass people. And if it's free school Prestige no longer plays A Part.

5 whether or not you will still be Engineering in a few years you still got that job with your degree. You probably wouldn't have gotten that with a degree in clarinet.

6 And I will continue to rant about free shit because the demand from you people will never end. It will never be enough. Not for the 'poor' people or for the politicians pretend to want to help them or the liberal guilty White people who enjoy wringing their hands and feeling superior to those of us who think poor people are by and large a combination of stupid lazy and unlucky. But that's really another subject. I can't help it if the marketing plan of the Institutes of Higher Learning has been successful in making their product overpriced. People make bad or unlucky decisions about Investments all the time.

WSS

[Vambo]

The way to bring the cost of tuition down is stop using the product (the college) and go to trade schools, apprenticeships etc... when they start losing money they will need to either lower cost or fold.

 

Supply and Demand.

[Westside Steve]

So most of the time I guess I like Elon Musk pretty well. I just saw a blurb supposedly from him which does make sense. This is a paraphrase: an 18 year old can't take out a $10,000 business loan but he can take out a $100,000 student loan and that's the problem. Or a problem.

(I may have added that he's also not seen as having his shit together well enough to be trusted with a beer or a pack of cigarettes.)

WSS

[VaporTrail]

I have six figures in student loan debt and the means to pay it back. If Uncle Sam insists the taxpayer subsidize it, I'm not so dogmatic that I'd turn it down. The boomers got their education and homes cheap; they also got that social security teat. Now, homes and tuition are the highest they've ever been. Social Security won't be there when I need it. Why shouldn't I be selfish here?

The demographics of the country dictate that complete student loan forgiveness is a matter of when and not a matter of if. Millennials are the biggest generation since the boomers. It will be paid off at the expense of Generation X, who will not have the votes to overcome the never-ending debt constituency. College isn't getting any cheaper, and I'd expect the zoomers will be siding with their parents over their grandparents on this issue.

College is a racket.

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

Boomers got homes cheap?  In the 70's and 80's a interest on a home loan was in the teens.  You had to make a lot of money to afford a home then.  Education costs were on par with now when you take in disposable income.  Sorry.

[Westside Steve]

I think I was 27 when I bought my first home, a bungalow and a up and down duplex on the same lot. Sure it was a dump but the interest rate was 9 and a half percent. It seems around that time I was thinking to myself if I could just make two hundred and fifty bucks a week forever things would be sweet.

Minor in secondary Ed which, had I decided to do that, probably would have kept me employed as a teacher. (fortunately I chose a different career path one of the few I could find that was even easier haha) Don't know what a state college costs to get a degree in teaching.

As to Vapors statement I agree. Even if I am opposed to most forms of free s*** I would probably accept it if they threw some my way, but I'd be a little bit embarrassed.

WSS