¿ QUESTION for all you loyal BROWNS fans. ? Your honest opinions & feelings on this game.

[jiggins7919]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:29 PM, Unsympathetic said:

All you need to know is.. the current group of DT's would barely [barely!] start at Ohio State.  And they wouldn't be stars.

Woods might get fired, but I don't know what he could do consistently with the barely-D1-college level of DI this FO decided to roster.  The consistent result is every team becomes the 1986 49ers with Roger Craig and Tom Rathman each getting 100 yards.

Can't believe he called it good. I mean, it was close for a bit, but every single person in the stands, watching at home, or listening to a radio knew he'd never make it. After watching the previous 3 plays, it never had a chance. 

[hoorta]

10 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Larry-  I have been around for awhile with the  Cleveland BROWNS  I was born in 1950 same as the BROWNS year 1....and winning the NFL Championship.   

I got interested in the BROWNS when I was around 8 in 1958.  And 14 when they won it all in 1964.  So I've been an INDIANS and  BROWNS fan for over 70 years. 

BUT that doesn't help the 1999-2022 BROWNS that can't get their owner, FO, coaching acts together, they have improved some what on there recent drafts.   I've always said good (or bad)  management and decisions start at the top - well we're screwed there for the near future  there.

You don't want to have a revolving door policy on the HC, staff, OC, DC and  another very important position  starting quarterback.   ~And~ we're set for a long time there let's hope it works out good....starting in about a month.   With this team, loaded at RB, OL, maybe DL and others will come through this year. 

Let's see, the math - From a 2-3 start (no use crying too much about the 3 gone).  Currently  2W / 5 games = 0.40  win % × 12 games left = 4.8 maybe  5 wins + 2 = a 7-10 season,   NO GOOD.   To make the playoffs might need  11  wins.   SO  they will need 9 wins or a .75 win %  to hit that 11 win target.

Do you think that this team actually can win 3/4 of their remaining games left.  Or will they just fall  a few wins short ?   

Better question will they finish over  .500 ?   And.....

GO BROWNS  !

Mj, you probably know we're almost exactly the same age. I've said one of my greatest regrets in life was not using some of my paper route money, hopping on the bus and buying a ticket to the 1964 Championship game. Who knew at the time it was going to be another 50+ years and counting? 

I'm not as pessimistic as you are about the Browns playoff chances. YET. First, so far this season everyone is beating everyone else. KC almost lost to the Raiders, the Jets beat the Dolphins, and the Packers lost to the G-men. 10 games may well be enough to get you into the playoffs. I will admit a loss to the Patriots this coming Sunday, short of a miracle will pretty much cook our playoff chances. But would it matter?  We're not beating the Bills with the current sorry state of our run defense. 

Second, except for bad luck, the Browns have dominated the stats in every game, except the one that matters- the score.

I'm crossing my fingers the Browns can go 3-3 until Massage Messiah shows up in week 12 against the very beatable Texans. Wins against the Ratbirds and Bungles would be huge (and almost mandatory) in our 6 game pre Watson stretch. Just win the division!! The Bengals already lost to the Steelers and Baltimore. That puts us at 5-6 for the stretch run. Stay tuned. 

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

For the first time in literally forever I'm intentionally not watching the game Sunday. I've got better things to do. I'm not saying I'm done with the team, but I don't need this. There's obviously something wrong with them. It's never one thing, it's a collection of idiots at key times shatting the muffin. I am tired. 

That is what ails me, too. Brissett played a fine game for a long while, still is inaccurate on sideline throws and long throws, and under pressure - egad. He's throw a terrible INT late in the game for three games in a row???

   I saw Brissett throw on a play, and it got batted down. I thought "So, he's about 3-4 inches taller, this still happens???

and having a pervert eventually take over at qb - nothing to look forward to. Herbert threw for more yards to Mike Williams (Kellen Winslow sp? still can't play) than Brissett threw to  both Cooper and Njoku.

    I do watch the games on record. I don't want to miss watching one of the GREAT RB's in the NFL - Nick Chubb. He's fascinating to watch.

   Browns' secondary....STILL with the miscommunications? enough already. Really stupid penalties? Newsome's targeting/spearing Wilson (wr) in the back? no call? ??? (still want an explanation of that one)

  The INT vs the Chargers in crunch time was worse than stupid. York will end up being one of the greatest k'ers for the Browns....

We can be fascinated by watching Nick Chubb dominate - on record. The Browns should have kept Baker for one last year, added a qb, and a DL, and DL in the first round of the next three drafts, and they would....

oh, but those draft picks are gone in the sleazy dumbass trade. Baker with a "Mike Williams" at wr would have sent the Browns to the superbowl so much faster. (except for the lack of defense on big running game teams).

Fastforwarding through tons of commercials and halftime is fun.

 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

That is what ails me, too. Brissett played a fine game for a long while, still is inaccurate on sideline throws and long throws, and under pressure - egad. He's throw a terrible INT late in the game for three games in a row???

We can be fascinated by watching Nick Chubb dominate - on record. The Browns should have kept Baker for one last year, added a qb, and a DL, and DL in the first round of the next three drafts, and they would.... hoorta edit..  suck even worse. 2024 is a long way off, we've tried the three year plan before.      

oh, but those draft picks are gone in the sleazy dumbass trade. Baker with a "Mike Williams" at wr would have sent the Browns to the superbowl so much faster. 

Jacoby isn't great- but he's currently playing better than Mayfield. Actually, every other starting quarterback in the NFL is too... Including the benched Mitch Trubisky

Take a qb this year? Like Kenny Pickett, or roll the dice in lower rounds? I consider we used our first round pick this year on Watson- who's a proven commodity. FYI this was considered a pretty weak qb draft. Anyway Baker would have been butthurt and pouted that we drafted his replacement. So, go ahead and defend Baker to the death. Maybe you're not keeping track anymore, but a bunch of us are....   Baker has played so crappy in Carolina he just got his coach fired. Oh, it's a team game? Shades of OBJ in Cleveland- his wrs are already bitching that he's clueless. Panthers fans booing- they know crap play when they see it.  

Want some numbers? His 71 qbr is the lowest of any starting quarterback in the NFL- yeah, even worse than Justin Fields- who sucks big time. His 55% completion rate is worse than Marcus Mariota and Joe Flacco's. Now he's out indefinitely with a high ankle sprain, (he needs get well cards) and the third string qb had a better completion percentage than mighty Baker when he came in to replace him. Don't be shocked if Carolina will go with Sucky Sam Darnold when he's ready to play, and Baker doesn't see the field the rest of the year.  

Too bad you can't come to grips that the Browns are married to Message Messiah for the foreseeable future. Why don't you just cash in your fan card like Mrs. Thome did if you think he's such a big sleezeball?  I happen to agree with Ghoolie, anyone who would root for the Browns to lose because they're butthurt about Baker aren't much of a Browns fan.   

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

I think the conclusions people are drawing here are based too much in logic and not in the overall plan of the Browns organization.

If "moneyball" was an accurate representation, then we need to step back and consider an alternate reality.

In that depiction the fans, manager and coaches were all pissed at game events. When brought up in meetings however, Brad Pitt's character deflected it and deferred to Depo who replied with a statistic.

I think we are way premature in expecting and changes.

I think objections in the Browns meetings are squashed by Haslam buying into.  "Just wait, the analytics don't lie".

Haslam believes in this shit. ShitMyPantski is not going to risk his job putting in his 2 cents until Haslam falls out of love with this Depo shit.

[calfoxwc]

10 hours ago, hoorta said:

Take a qb this year?

Be careful with your crap - you look foolish. I clearly said, play Baker one more year, and then draft a qb in next year's great? qb draft. That is what I meant. Not "qb/dl/dl" in that order - not what I meant.

I said many times about that last draft - I was amazed by Jordan Davis. That is exactly who I wanted. He was drafted by the Eagles, the pick coming from the Texans via Browns. Guess who would look AWESOME at DL on the Browns defense right now? Especially NOW? Jordan Davis. That is exactly who I would have drafted.

How long has it been since the Browns went to the playoffs, beating pittspuke? THAT was Baker.

Pouting about him playing poorly injured, with a stupid sling to hold his left shoulder in place.....and his poor numbers -

is also stupid. And Caroline has serious oline troubles from last year, well documented. Go frickin read it.

and, the Panthers were  5-11 under two different coaches in 2019. 5-11 in 2020 under Rhule. And 5-12 in 2021 also under Rhule.  That is all PRE BAKER.

1

13

13

Philadelphia Eagles (from Texans via Browns)

Jordan Davis, DT, Georgia

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, hoorta said:

Jacoby isn't great- but he's currently playing better than Mayfield. Actually, every other starting quarterback in the NFL is too... Including the benched Mitch Trubisky

Take a qb this year? Like Kenny Pickett, or roll the dice in lower rounds? I consider we used our first round pick this year on Watson- who's a proven commodity. FYI this was considered a pretty weak qb draft.

Just like Josh Allen, Pickett probably won't be immediately terrific.  There will be growing pains before Pittsburgh sees what they have in him. Right now he's playing behind the ONLY Offensive Line that couldn't overwhelm our DL (at least in the 2nd half).  People forget the following QBs didn't even play as NFL rookies: Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, Philip Rivers.  I think Aaron Rodgers had to wait 3 years before Favre left.

Just think if the Browns actually used their 1st round pick on Watson when they had the 1st overall pick in 2017:  1) there wouldn't be all this arguing about Baker Mayfield; 2) there was a rookie salary cap preventing a need to guarantee him $230 million and giving up 3 first round draft picks and more; 3) if we didn't draft Watson we had a choice between Patrick Mahomes and Mitch Trubisky (so we could have the lingering Chiefs or Bears fortune); 4) we also had a shot at what seemed to be an unpopular choice everywhere but Buffalo because everyone knew there were things to correct and patience needed with Josh Allen (see my bolded statement above); 5) For that matter, how many chances did we have to draft Russell Wilson the year we took Brandon Weedon 2 rounds before Russell was drafted?; 6) Can't we just look at how long ago it was when this franchise needed a Supplemental Draft to make their ONLY successful franchise QB pick since Otto Graham back in the 1940s?

Coming out of 1-31 football - at least we got somewhat of a quick fix with a rookie QB that led us to 7-8-1 in just 14 appearances (13 starts) while breaking a record as a rookie with 27 TD passes.  That didn't seem like bad clay to mold IMO.  The next year turned into X's and Uh-O's.  The year after that turned into playoffs and a 11-5 record with a playoff W even if Baker was just a passenger instead of a driver.  That said, a safe ratio of 26 TD passes to 8 INTs was a lot better than the results of the year that followed with 17 TD passes to 13 INTs.  All prospects have short windows of make or break.  The Chicago Bears have destroyed 2 consecutive promising QBs just in case people don't want to believe that.  EDIT If Justin Fields went to the SAME guy that developed young QBs like McNabb and Mahomes (after being Favre's QB coach) - I think he'd be much further along.  If Favre stayed in Atlanta, he might still be at happy hour there.  We had a lot of turnover on our coaching staff in 2018 and 2019 so by 2020 - our young QB was already on his 3rd QB Coach, 3rd or 4th OC, 4th HC (if we count the interim HC).  Like it or not, that had an overall impact prior to Andrew Berry thinking "this isn't the QB I drafted!"

Today, we live with a backup QB and a defense that doesn't look like it can stop anything - which pisses all over some awesome performances by Chubb, Hunt and the Offensive Line.  It is what it is.  Unfortunately, the last time Watson played on a team like this - he had a 4-12 record despite ranking #1 or #2 in nearly every passing category/statistic there is.  Seeing how Watson only has 1 playoff win on his resume - the collective thought has been he just needs to go to a better Owner/FO.  I wish I could say I was confident that just happened.  What do you suppose is holding me back from doing so?

Edited October 12, 2022 by Flugel

[Dutch Oven]

Those "It's going to be fun in Carolina with Baker this year" posts from cal didn't age well, did they? 

[jiggins7919]

20 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I do watch the games on record. I don't want to miss watching one of the GREAT RB's in the NFL - Nick Chubb. He's fascinating to watch.

Man, he's so special. I feel like we're wasting him. 

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

Just like Josh Allen, Pickett probably won't be immediately terrific.  There will be growing pains before Pittsburgh sees what they have in him. Right now he's playing behind the ONLY Offensive Line that couldn't overwhelm our DL (at least in the 2nd half).  People forget the following QBs didn't even play as NFL rookies: Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, Philip Rivers.  I think Aaron Rodgers had to wait 3 years before Favre left.

Just think if the Browns actually used their 1st round pick on Watson when they had the 1st overall pick in 2017:  1) there wouldn't be all this arguing about Baker Mayfield; 2) there was a rookie salary cap preventing a need to guarantee him $230 million and giving up 3 first round draft picks and more; 3) if we didn't draft Watson we had a choice between Patrick Mahomes and Mitch Trubisky (so we could have the lingering Chiefs or Bears fortune); 4) we also had a shot at what seemed to be an unpopular choice everywhere but Buffalo because everyone knew there were things to correct and patience needed with Josh Allen (see my bolded statement above); 5) For that matter, how many chances did we have to draft Russell Wilson the year we took Brandon Weedon 2 rounds before Russell was drafted?; 6) Can't we just look at how long ago it was when this franchise needed a Supplemental Draft to make their ONLY successful franchise QB pick since Otto Graham back in the 1940s?

Coming out of 1-31 football - at least we got somewhat of a quick fix with a rookie QB that led us to 7-8-1 in just 14 appearances (13 starts) while breaking a record as a rookie with 27 TD passes.  That didn't seem like bad clay to mold IMO.  The next year turned into X's and Uh-O's.  The year after that turned into playoffs and a 11-5 record with a playoff W even if Baker was just a passenger instead of a driver.  That said, a safe ratio of 26 TD passes to 8 INTs was a lot better than the results of the year that followed with 17 TD passes to 13 INTs.  All prospects have short windows of make or break.  The Chicago Bears have destroyed 2 consecutive promising QBs just in case people don't want to believe that.  EDIT If Justin Fields went to the SAME guy that developed young QBs like McNabb and Mahomes (after being Favre's QB coach) - I think he'd be much further along.  If Favre stayed in Atlanta, he might still be at happy hour there.  We had a lot of turnover on our coaching staff in 2018 and 2019 so by 2020 - our young QB was already on his 3rd QB Coach, 3rd or 4th OC, 4th HC (if we count the interim HC).  Like it or not, that had an overall impact prior to Andrew Berry thinking "this isn't the QB I drafted!"

Today, we live with a backup QB and a defense that doesn't look like it can stop anything - which pisses all over some awesome performances by Chubb, Hunt and the Offensive Line.  It is what it is.  Unfortunately, the last time Watson played on a team like this - he had a 4-12 record despite ranking #1 or #2 in nearly every passing category/statistic there is.  Seeing how Watson only has 1 playoff win on his resume - the collective thought has been he just needs to go to a better Owner/FO.  I wish I could say I was confident that just happened.  What do you suppose is holding me back from doing so?

Tom, if, if if, well we didn't. Not playing coulda drafted (take your pick) going all the way back to 1999. Coulda drafted Ladanian Tomlinson too if you want to play that game, and probably 6-8 others who are now in the HOF. Or that skinny kid from Michigan who's a mortal lock first ballot inductee when he decides to retire. 

Grateful for what Baker did in that one magical season? Yup, Derek Anderson had one too. Yeah we got a couple decent years out of Baker- and then he torpedoed 2021 by bull headed thinking he was the only one who could save the season playing with one arm.  Not buying we ruined Baker- he did that to himself. 2020 is in the rearview mirror now, ancient history by NFL standards. It's what have you done for me lately- and by current standards, sure looks like Berry made the correct decision that we weren't Super Bowl bound with a quarterback as limited as Mayfield. 

Sure we gave up a humongous amount of draft capital, as well as $$$ to get Watson. Wait for Pickett to mature? Well Myles Garrett and Joel Bitonio aren't getting any younger. Or Nick Chubb for that matter. I worry with the number of hits he takes how long his shelf life is going to be.   Berry decided it was time to push all the chips into the middle of the table. Remains to be seen if it was the right move. 

[Flugel]

17 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Tom, if, if if, well we didn't. Not playing coulda drafted (take your pick) going all the way back to 1999. Coulda drafted Ladanian Tomlinson too if you want to play that game, and probably 6-8 others who are now in the HOF. Or that skinny kid from Michigan who's a mortal lock first ballot inductee when he decides to retire. 

Grateful for what Baker did in that one magical season? Yup, Derek Anderson had one too. Yeah we got a couple decent years out of Baker- and then he torpedoed 2021 by bull headed thinking he was the only one who could save the season playing with one arm.  Not buying we ruined Baker- he did that to himself. 2020 is in the rearview mirror now, ancient history by NFL standards. It's what have you done for me lately- and by current standards, sure looks like Berry made the correct decision that we weren't Super Bowl bound with a quarterback as limited as Mayfield. 

Sure we gave up a humongous amount of draft capital, as well as $$$ to get Watson. Wait for Pickett to mature? Well Myles Garrett and Joel Bitonio aren't getting any younger. Or Nick Chubb for that matter. I worry with the number of hits he takes how long his shelf life is going to be.   Berry decided it was time to push all the chips into the middle of the table. Remains to be seen if it was the right move. 

Larry, I'm not trying to win an argument.  I'm trying to converse with you - fan to fan/friend to friend.  The Browns aren't where they are at today because of Baker (that's a symptom/head ache only).  They're where they're at because this FO doesn't know how to draft a franchise QB.  The Baker isn't anybody's answer thing has already been proven and punctuated.  Game over on that.  He's the same as Mitch Trubisky talent wise - but Trubisky is clearly a much more likable kid.  The teams in the AFC North that have drafted their franchise QBs since 99 have gone to Super Bowls (Balt, Pitt, Cincy).    When this team has 1st overall picks in 2017 and 2018, KC landed Mahomes, Houston landed Watson and Buffalo landed Josh Allen. I already explained all of the why they were successful choices despite the FO/GM's swimming against pre-draft popular opinion.  If you read what I wrote in the context it was written in - it should make sense. 

Baker was going to ruin once enough film went around.  I'm just not buying he was the only problem here in his first 3 years especially.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Larry, I'm not trying to win an argument.  I'm trying to converse with you - fan to fan/friend to friend.  The Browns aren't where they are at today because of Baker (that's a symptom/head ache only).  They're where they're at because this FO doesn't know how to draft a franchise QB.  The Baker isn't anybody's answer thing has already been proven and punctuated.  Game over on that.  He's the same as Mitch Trubisky talent wise - but Trubisky is clearly a much more likable kid.  The teams in the AFC North that have drafted their franchise QBs since 99 have gone to Super Bowls (Balt, Pitt, Cincy).    When this team has 1st overall picks in 2017 and 2018, KC landed Mahomes, Houston landed Watson and Buffalo landed Josh Allen. I already explained all of the why they were successful choices despite the FO/GM's swimming against pre-draft popular opinion.  If you read what I wrote in the context it was written in - it should make sense. 

Baker was going to ruin once enough film went around.  I'm just not buying he was the only problem here in his first 3 years especially.

Tom, it's not just quarterbacks that we've flopped on, our list of first round busts at other positions is epically bad too...  Since the return in 1999, we've drafted exactly one guy- Joe Thomas who's going to make the HOF.  Joe Haden has an outside chance, and Myles is on a fast track to get there barring serious injury.  We had Antonio Gates right under our noses, and whiffed.  If you want to posit former Browns front offices and scouting departments couldn't recognize talent when it walked up to them and bit them in the ass, you're not going to get any argument from me.    Mayfield wasn't Berry's pick, and a bunch of us thought he was a pretty decent selection for #1 overall at the time. The other qbs in the first round you mentioned, Mahomes, Allen, and let's toss in Lamar for good measure all had serious question marks. Baker was the least flawed qb of the bunch. It could have been worse- we could have drafted Darnold or Rosen.   

Try not to barf when you peruse this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_first-round_draft_picks

[calfoxwc]

7 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Baker was the least flawed qb of the bunch. It could have been worse- we could have drafted Darnold or Rosen.  

except you had rosen listed as two picks better than Josh Allen.

How did that work out for ya?

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

except you had rosen listed as two picks better than Josh Allen.

How did that work out for ya?

Actually, it worked out fine, as we didn't draft Rosen. Didn't draft Allen either... And I'm not going to try and get it through your thick head for the nth time after I looked at around 6 complete games of Allen at Wyoming why I was of the opinion drafting him was a bad idea. Still gotta keep on crowing you guessed right about Josh, huh? Since Baker is sort of flopping down Carolina way. So why not buy a Bills jersey instead?    

FWIW, I don't have to continually remind the Board how many times I've been correct on my draft picks, so give it a rest already. 

[SdBacker80]

The draft capital we gave up to get Watson is the same haul it would take to move up (maybe more) for Stroud or Young.  And before anyone says we were are headed for top 5 in the draft we are a few moronic brain farts on and off the field away from being 5-0. 
 

And I’d love to bat 1.000 with draft selections the choices we made are the same stupid choices other revered franchises make/miss out on

[syd]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:24 AM, nickers said:

We have given Joe Woods 3 years... Each year ending with ... Same result... It's time for a change...

at the end of last year are defense came on strong and were the only reason that we were in games flipping mayfield just could not complete a pass so as i said before why don't you find a baker forum to go to No one likes you here anyway 

[hoorta]

55 minutes ago, syd said:

at the end of last year are defense came on strong and were the only reason that we were in games flipping mayfield just could not complete a pass so as i said before why don't you find a baker forum to go to No one likes you here anyway 

It's far to early for the Baker's Dozen around here to throw in the towel on their man-crush Syd.  Maybe not even after he gets released by the Panthers after the season... 

BTW, I get along just fine with Nickers, don't often agree with his takes though. 

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, hoorta said:

It's far to early for the Baker's Dozen around here to throw in the towel on their man-crush Syd.  Maybe not even after he gets released by the Panthers after the season... 

You literally changed the title of a thread made specifically to mock Baker fans to "Baker Gets His Head Coach Fired" and literally none of them even bothered to muster up even a half-assed retort, with the exception of cal sputtering with a "Yeah, but what about Josh Allen?" 😁 

 

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Tom, it's not just quarterbacks that we've flopped on, our list of first round busts at other positions is epically bad too...  Since the return in 1999, we've drafted exactly one guy- Joe Thomas who's going to make the HOF.  Joe Haden has an outside chance, and Myles is on a fast track to get there barring serious injury.  We had Antonio Gates right under our noses, and whiffed.  If you want to posit former Browns front offices and scouting departments couldn't recognize talent when it walked up to them and bit them in the ass, you're not going to get any argument from me.    Mayfield wasn't Berry's pick, and a bunch of us thought he was a pretty decent selection for #1 overall at the time. The other qbs in the first round you mentioned, Mahomes, Allen, and let's toss in Lamar for good measure all had serious question marks. Baker was the least flawed qb of the bunch. It could have been worse- we could have drafted Darnold or Rosen.   

Try not to barf when you peruse this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_first-round_draft_picks

You make some great points and that list?  OUCH!   Today though, don't you already have a very good idea what QBs (barring injury)will be competing in the post season?  That's what it's all about today.  Most of the time, you have to have an elite QB to get there and advance deeper into the playoffs.

I know Baker wasn't drafted by Berry - that's why I brought that up.  Once again, I thought he'd be way better than he's become so I was very wrong about him. Let's park the Baker Mayfield stuff.  

Organizations have to be very careful not to draft kids that have already played their best football; and find some assets, characteristics and intangibles that offer upside they can work with.  People always talk about flaws and imperfections regarding some QBs, which is fine.  Have you ever looked at Joe Montana's college passing stats? 

1975 28 of 66  42.4% cmp  507 yds   4 TD 8 INT

1977 99 of 189 52.4% cmp 1604 yds 11 TD 8 INT

1978 141 of 260 54.3% cmp 2010 yds 10 TD 9 INT

Any of that forecast one of the best NFL QBs of all time?   Of course it didn't so he went in round 3.  Did SF draft rear view mirror or were there things they felt they could work with?  Guys like him, Russell Wilson and Tom Brady remind us - the draft is still a crap shoot. That said, when you got the right guy - you draft the right guy.  

I've had people tell me Otto Graham's passing numbers back in the day prove he couldn't play in today's NFL. I tell them that's what people thought of Joe Montana and his college passing numbers not being good enough for the NFL passing game ahead.  His NFL Head Coach was Bill Walsh and guess what?  His NFL numbers were killer good because Walsh tapped every ounce of passing talent he had.  The irony?  Bill Walsh coached under Paul Brown and learned a lot of the West Coast concepts from Paul Brown who drafted Otto Graham back in the day.  All Otto Graham did was take Paul Brown's pro football team to 10 consecutive Pro Football Championship Title Games and won 7 of those in his 10 year career.  The last 6 Championship Title games were in the NFL where he won 3 Championships.  I'll bet a guy like Bill Walsh could have tapped the same type of things out of Otto that he did with Montana.  

My favorite 2 Cleveland Browns' QBs (Sipe and Kosar) had some imperfections. Watching each guy succeed and win in spite of those imperfections which is what made them so much fun to root for.  The 80s was my favorite decade of following this team.  I'd love to get back to that feeling we can win any game instead of how are we going to blow this week's lead?

We have 12 games left - let's see what happens...

 

[D Bone]

My 1st POV of what I do during most Browns games these days (yes, it is gratuitous and nope, I don't care) 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

FWIW, I don't have to continually remind the Board how many times I've been correct on my draft picks, so give it a rest already. 

Well, my inquiring mind went and searched to see if you ever did a mock draft... got 0 results. I don't remember you doing a mock draft - maybe in 2018? I'd like to see it. Can't find it. Can't find a first round prediction...but I'm no experte' at searching. I would welcome you gracious assistance in this matter.

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Well, my inquiring mind went and searched to see if you ever did a mock draft... got 0 results. I don't remember you doing a mock draft - maybe in 2018? I'd like to see it. Can't find it. Can't find a first round prediction...but I'm no experte' at searching. I would welcome you gracious assistance in this matter.

My inquiring mind came up with a few hits regarding you saying that "it's going to be fun down in Carolina this year with Baker!" on here. How has THAT worked out for you?

Perhaps bringing up predictions is something you shouldn't be doing. 

[Flugel]

14 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

The draft capital we gave up to get Watson is the same haul it would take to move up (maybe more) for Stroud or Young.  And before anyone says we were are headed for top 5 in the draft we are a few moronic brain farts on and off the field away from being 5-0. 
 

And I’d love to bat 1.000 with draft selections the choices we made are the same stupid choices other revered franchises make/miss out on

This isn't aimed at you personally - it's just an ideal spot to vent.  Maybe you're onto something above.  Many of the key players that are giving this team a lead/chance to win - weren't drafted by this FO such as Nick Chubb, Joel Bitonio, Wyatt Teller, Kareem Hunt.   Other guys that are supposed to be important/significant this year like Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward and David Njoku (per new contract right?) were drafted by a previous FO.  

When you have to turn to veteran FAs - they cost more to your cap than drafting the right guys you develop as keepers.  Obviously at QB I have to come to grips with this franchise just can't draft the right QB; and keep the staff and FO around that drafted him long enough to see it past inevitable growing pains.  If it weren't for the lone exception to the rule with Bernie Kosar via Supplemental Draft in the mid 80s - how many decades do you suppose we go back in support of what I just said?    

So, this year the answer to all our problems is now a suspended QB that our Owner didn't want to draft or have his 2017 FO/staff waste any time researching.  Then in 2022, Haslam whips out the press conference statement that he and his organization have never done a better job of researching a QB more thorough than he did with Watson this year?  Are ya kidding me Jimmy?   The last time Watson played on a mismanaged team like Haslam has THIS YEAR - he had one of his best years statistically while his team went 4-12.  What was the excuse?  Crappy Coach, Owner and FO.  Hmmmmm...  Is this REALLY the place Watson wanted to be at or is it the only place that wanted Watson?  Watson has 1 playoff win playing for an owner and FO like this one regardless of how well he played.  

We only have 6 games left with the backup QB filling in on an offense that has been scoring about 28 points per week.  Let's hope Watson really is the answer to the cumulative effect of bad ownership and musical chairs with Head Coaches, Coaching Staffs and Front Offices.  I hope it's finally this simple.  I'm running out decades here so please excuse my patience level with it all.  

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Flugel

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

When you have to turn to veteran FAs - they cost more to your cap than drafting the right guys you develop as keepers.

I’m not impressed with the job AB and his scouting department has done during his tenure in Berea.

When you have to scour the waiver wire and raid other teams practice squads for a position of need, it’s an indictment of your draft prowess….or lack thereof.

[nickers]

4 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

I’m not impressed with the job AB and his scouting department has done during his tenure in Berea.

When you have to scour the waiver wire and raid other teams practice squads for a position of need, it’s an indictment of your draft prowess….or lack thereof.

Remember back in the old days... We had Al "Bubba" Baker, Big Daddy (Carl Hairston). Veteran leadership that the younger guys leaned on to... Today we have shit and a woke driven franchise... That cares more about Diversity and Inclusion than actually running a Football driven program based on talent rather than numbers...

[SdBacker80]

7 hours ago, Flugel said:

This isn't aimed at you personally - it's just an ideal spot to vent.  Maybe you're onto something above.  Many of the key players that are giving this team a lead/chance to win - weren't drafted by this FO such as Nick Chubb, Joel Bitonio, Wyatt Teller, Kareem Hunt.   Other guys that are supposed to be important/significant this year like Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward and David Njoku (per new contract right?) were drafted by a previous FO.  

When you have to turn to veteran FAs - they cost more to your cap than drafting the right guys you develop as keepers.  Obviously at QB I have to come to grips with this franchise just can't draft the right QB; and keep the staff and FO around that drafted him long enough to see it past inevitable growing pains.  If it weren't for the lone exception to the rule with Bernie Kosar via Supplemental Draft in the mid 80s - how many decades do you suppose we go back in support of what I just said?    

So, this year the answer to all our problems is now a suspended QB that our Owner didn't want to draft or have his 2017 FO/staff waste any time researching.  Then in 2022, Haslam whips out the press conference statement that he and his organization have never done a better job of researching a QB more thorough than he did with Watson this year?  Are ya kidding me Jimmy?   The last time Watson played on a mismanaged team like Haslam has THIS YEAR - he had one of his best years statistically while his team went 4-12.  What was the excuse?  Crappy Coach, Owner and FO.  Hmmmmm...  Is this REALLY the place Watson wanted to be at or is it the only place that wanted Watson?  Watson has 1 playoff win playing for an owner and FO like this one regardless of how well he played.  

We only have 6 games left with the backup QB filling in on an offense that has been scoring about 28 points per week.  Let's hope Watson really is the answer to the cumulative effect of bad ownership and musical chairs with Head Coaches, Coaching Staffs and Front Offices.  I hope it's finally this simple.  I'm running out decades here so please excuse my patience level with it all.  

 

great post!!! Going to rattle off some things quickly as I’m traveling

This Current FO has done well in spots.

Ethan Pocic.

James Hudson (appears to be a solid pick)

Martin Emmerson - early returns very solid 

DPJ a sixth rounder!!!

Greg Newsome the right pick 

Nick Harris Day 3 pick good enough to start at Center. 

Amari Cooper for a 5th!!!

You swing and miss but you need some hits and certainly enough provided here. 

We can’t pick a QB to save our lives but the owner and FO did what they could to bring one here. 

 

[hoorta]

14 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Well, my inquiring mind went and searched to see if you ever did a mock draft... got 0 results. I don't remember you doing a mock draft - maybe in 2018? I'd like to see it. Can't find it. Can't find a first round prediction...but I'm no experte' at searching. I would welcome you gracious assistance in this matter.

I'll help you along... I have never done a mock draft, it's a waste of my time (and I don't have the time) trying to do a deep dive on prospects who might get drafted on day three. But I've frequently done a thumbs up thumbs down analysis on the very top prospects. Go look up my pre draft comments about Brady Quinn, Johnny Football, and Deshone Kiser- among others. 

And your hero Josh Allen?  My scouting report... Can throw the ball in the air a reported 90+ yards, also can't hit the broadside of a barn at 20 yards 1\2 of the time... Pass...  He's one of the very rare quarterback birds (like maybe one out of 100) who has managed to fix his accuracy issues in the pros.  BTW, one of the reasons I liked Baker pre draft, he was extremely accurate on his long throws. 

[hoorta]

17 hours ago, D Bone said:

My 1st POV of what I do during most Browns games these days (yes, it is gratuitous and nope, I don't care) 

 

 

As a long term street cyclist--  You're NUTS!!!!    At my age, staying out of hospital emergency rooms is one of my high priorities when I hop on my bike.  

[D Bone]

40 minutes ago, hoorta said:

As a long term street cyclist--  You're NUTS!!!!    At my age, staying out of hospital emergency rooms is one of my high priorities when I hop on my bike.  

It's so funny because roadies think we MTBers are crazy, but we think you are for riding on the road with all of the idiot texting drivers! 

One thing is for sure though, bikes will prolong our lives and give us a fighting shot at having a great final phase...... Keep on pedaling brother!! 💪

 

What the hell, here's one more. It's my favorite trail and a glimpse of where I've spent all 54yrs of my life (it's much steeper than it looks on GoPro)...

 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

As a long term street cyclist--  You're NUTS!!!!    At my age, staying out of hospital emergency rooms is one of my high priorities when I hop on my bike.  

I ride the Towpath from Canal Fulton either north as far as Akron or south to Massillon (It is shut down in Massillon due to an Army Corps project) and I tell you what, my least favorite part of the ride is the mile to and from the Towpath on the streets of town. I don't like riding with traffic at all.