Of life, refs, and reality

[Dutch Oven]

39 minutes ago, Orion said:

And why on earth would that be?  Is the Foxborough Patriots their idea of 'prime time'?  The no-mans-land of Green Bay?  The roiling hot Arizona?  Why would they care which run of the mill town had a talented, entertaining and winning football team?  We have a rich tradition.  We have intense fans who'd fill the stands and be loud.  

This is years upon of years of disappointment bubbling to the surface. This is the NFL fan's version of screaming to the heavens at God because of a loved one being stricken down with incurable cancer. 

If a Browns fan honestly believes the NFL will never allow the Browns to win, they would stop watching. 

[jiggins7919]

37 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

If a Browns fan honestly believes the NFL will never allow the Browns to win, they would stop watching. 

I'm sad. 

[syd]

23 hours ago, nickers said:

I know i'm gay  allways have been a gay I just never had the courage to admit it

ahhh thats a good boy

[Kvoethe]

On 10/23/2022 at 8:10 PM, TypicalBrowns50 said:

NFL isn’t a real sport. I’m glad people are finally realizing it’s rigged

Soap Opera now...agreed.

[Nero]

17 hours ago, hoorta said:

IIRC, the NFL is the only professional sports league that doesn't have paid full time officials. With their multi-billion dollar revenue streams, they can certainly afford to do so. You have guys whose day jobs are accountants and  lawyers reffing NFL games as a sideline. 

This. x1000. 

This is something unacceptable in one of the most profitable sports in the world, which moves billions a year. 

Coming from soccer, it was surprising for me to know this, and it is still hard to understand, even more when there's always so much controversy. 

The heck, even the FIFA decided to insert some technology to improve the refereeing overall. 

[jrb12711]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

This is years upon of years of disappointment bubbling to the surface. This is the NFL fan's version of screaming to the heavens at God because of a loved one being stricken down with incurable cancer. 

If a Browns fan honestly believes the NFL will never allow the Browns to win, they would stop watching. 

I mean that's still not what I'm saying man. As I mentioned, I don't think there's some grand conspiracy of refs getting money rained down on them while the owners suck the blood of the youth. I just feel, strongly, the NFL has incentives to give certain teams favorable calls for the growth of the sport. I don't think this is unique to the NFL-all sports have this issue to a point. 

But there's no sport like the NFL where one call going against a team can be the difference in a win or a loss. In this regard, I can believe strongly that there is an unspoken, unstated reality that certain markets, certain teams, and certain players get the benefit of that. Let me ask you this honestly-in both cases late (the OPI and false start) were the other way around, do you really believe those get called on the Ravens? I'm sorry, I just don't. At the very minimum, that false start penalty goes the other way. I have never, ever, seen that called that way. We got a witness a false start call miss so bad that a referee got fired outright-the first time that has ever happened and directly led to a TD. 

The other fact of the matter is the Browns are a bottom 5-6 franchise in terms of revenue in all facets of the sport. I know that may be upsetting to hear, but the Packers and others mentioned are significantly more brand names of the league (Arizona aside). To put the cherry on top of the shit sundae, we sold the farm to make the face of this league a sexual predator in a contract that clearly angered the rest of the league.

You can say what you want, but that shit just adds up to an organization the NFL doesn't want to be prominent. The Browns have sucked for decades due to failures to draft talent and secure good leadership, 100%. Again, I don't think this shit is rigged but that doesn't mean the stuff I said isn't untrue.

[mjp28]

I just hope this NFL and rigging nonsense is finally put to bed.

The NFL is a very popular and financially profitable sport in the USA and abroad.   It is going to expand into Germany next.

If it ever came out that even one game involved some foolish attempt to rig it it would be an all out    disaster     for the league and the confidence of millions of fans.   

It has been built upon trust and the NFL is well aware of that fact.   The rigging cult sound like a bunch of Qanon groupies.  Like a team gets a script for today's game to go over.  Right.   

Now back to some real football  !     GO BROWNS on MNF !

[Bob806]

On 10/23/2022 at 7:39 PM, SdBacker80 said:

 

The Chargers were notorious for being on the end of some bad reffing when they were in SD and now that they have moved to LA….things seem better 

100% factual. Goodell is in bed with Kroenke, who spearheaded the LA facility. Even though Kroenke doesn't own the Chargers, he convinced the NFL that LA needed 2 teams. 

His wife's Walmart money has gotten him everything he wants. 

Regarding the Browns, yeah we've been screwed so bad over the years. It's mind boggling. Modell, Lerner, Haslam, it just continues. 

[gumby73]

Life's been good to me so far !

Reality... It won't be me raking in a 700M dollar Powerball 🎱

Refs...Nothings changed, but to many rules..

than we still have to listen to Gene (gene) Steratore or Dean (dean) Blandino, called in to review a 🏈 play 🙈

   It's like the Gong Show with Gene or Dean The dancing machine's                

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 10/24/2022 at 4:34 AM, Westside Steve said:

Too lazy to look it up but I don't doubt that the revenue from the worldwide Wrestling Federation is in the billions, or at least a lot of Millions.

Do you think CASINO was entirely fashioned out of whole cloth?

WSS

I love to watch Women fight, even fake WWF fights. You want to talk fucked up? They put in two really hot chicks, they air out their pussy for 120 seconds and then leave the ring. Conversely, the fucktard male wrestlers are in the ring for 45 minutes at a time. WTF is that? I dont' want to watch that shit. I might as well watch MMA men wipe their balls across each other's face.

[Westside Steve]

6 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I love to watch Women fight, even fake WWF fights. You want to talk fucked up? They put in two really hot chicks, they air out their pussy for 120 seconds and then leave the ring. Conversely, the fucktard male wrestlers are in the ring for 45 minutes at a time. WTF is that? I dont' want to watch that shit. I might as well watch MMA men wipe their balls across each other's face.

I used to like big time wrestling when I was younger. My favorite guy was the Mighty Eagle. We also played a New Year's Eve party at Johnny powers apartment complex.

WSS

[Flugel]

20 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

I mean that's still not what I'm saying man. As I mentioned, I don't think there's some grand conspiracy of refs getting money rained down on them while the owners suck the blood of the youth. I just feel, strongly, the NFL has incentives to give certain teams favorable calls for the growth of the sport. I don't think this is unique to the NFL-all sports have this issue to a point. 

But there's no sport like the NFL where one call going against a team can be the difference in a win or a loss. In this regard, I can believe strongly that there is an unspoken, unstated reality that certain markets, certain teams, and certain players get the benefit of that. Let me ask you this honestly-in both cases late (the OPI and false start) were the other way around, do you really believe those get called on the Ravens? I'm sorry, I just don't. At the very minimum, that false start penalty goes the other way. I have never, ever, seen that called that way. We got a witness a false start call miss so bad that a referee got fired outright-the first time that has ever happened and directly led to a TD. 

The other fact of the matter is the Browns are a bottom 5-6 franchise in terms of revenue in all facets of the sport. I know that may be upsetting to hear, but the Packers and others mentioned are significantly more brand names of the league (Arizona aside). To put the cherry on top of the shit sundae, we sold the farm to make the face of this league a sexual predator in a contract that clearly angered the rest of the league.

You can say what you want, but that shit just adds up to an organization the NFL doesn't want to be prominent. The Browns have sucked for decades due to failures to draft talent and secure good leadership, 100%. Again, I don't think this shit is rigged but that doesn't mean the stuff I said isn't untrue.

You have some legitimate concerns.  First, NFL owners get an overwhelming majority of their profit from the shared revenue of the TV Contract monopoly, not to be confused with home attendance.  That being the case, why else do you think they're trying to increase their viewing audiences to the other side of the Atlantic Ocean in England.  IMO, it doesn't look like they want the Cleveland Browns promoting the NFL product any time soon.  It's almost like they knew all this was coming.  And on 4th and 5 where the correct encroachment call gives Cleveland a 1st down or about 2 inches left to go for it on 4th down.  There's a major opportunity for a group of guys that can control the outcome of the game knowing Cleveland is about the 31st or 32nd priority to Goodell.  The Browns didn't even get the usual apology letter from the NFL Office after the horrible call in Baltimore - so I'm guessing they're comfortably Goodell's 32nd priority.  Just a guess though

Goodell really wanted to prove all the naysayers wrong about 2 teams thriving in the LA market (even though past teams in the same market like the LA Rams couldn't sell out in seasons they made the playoffs).  Guess what happened, the first or second year the Chargers moved to LA - BOTH LA teams were in the playoffs.  Meanwhile, everyone on the planet that saw the blatant pass interference penalty by the Rams on the New Orleans WR (in the playoffs) never get called by either official in position to make that call saw an ideal way officials can control the outcome of a game. Do you think anyone on the officiating crew didn't know how bad Goodell wanted a team in the LA market making it deep into the playoffs or to a Super Bowl? After that, the Rams made it to the Super Bowl.  And guess who else was suddenly back in the playoffs that same post season?  The Chargers.  Meanwhile the Cleveland Browns and their mirror image in the NFC (Detroit Lions) were home watching the playoffs while their fans were discussing who needed to be fired and who could help their teams in the draft. 

When there's another game in England this Sunday, try to think why this is happening.  This is the last year DirecTV (and the affiliated networks) have the monopoly paying those very generous shared revenues to owners.  Goodell is marketing HIS league beyond the USA for the next for the next Monopoly to keep the NFL owners rich.  Unfortunately, some of the old NFL franchises with storied traditions like Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago just aren't Goodell's ideal franchises to market to other countries. Like it or not, the LAST THING he wants to put on display is the team that went all in on DeShaun Watson regardless of where people in here stand on that.  The revenue owners bring in from those TV contracts far exceeds what they get from home attendance.  

It sure looks like when Rodger wants to see something happen - it has a way of unfolding that way, coincidentally or not....

[mjp28]

38 minutes ago, Flugel said:

 

It sure looks like when Rodger wants to see something happen - it has a way of unfolding that way, coincidentally or not....

I guess that's how or why Mr Godell earns his  $63.9 million contract  with the NFL. 

Can you just imagine  (or would like to hear) what actually goes on in those NFL owners meetings ?

Or better yet what goes on afterwards in the restaurants and bars when a few of these really big shots get together and kick around all of the things going on in and around the NFL world ..... and other "stuff " in general with no prying eyes or cameras around. 

I think it would be really interesting to be in some Manhattan restaurant or bar and see what goes on......especially when they pull out a small notepad and jot a few things down.    True life in the fast lane  stuff we average fars can only imagine about.   Oh well,  life in the not so fast lane here on  TBB.         

[Bob806]

I've always suspected that Tagliabue was real real pissed the city of Cleveland sued & won an "expansion" franchise. 

We got that, kept the history & colors. In return, well besides the Browns mismanaging rosters/coaching/GM & ownership woes, the NFL makes sure the product on the field gets the short end on officiating. 

You'd think the Browns could have dug out of the doldrums by now. Maybe, just maybe the league doesn't want them to.

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

I've always suspected that Tagliabue was real real pissed the city of Cleveland sued & won an "expansion" franchise. 

We got that, kept the history & colors. In return, well besides the Browns mismanaging rosters/coaching/GM & ownership woes, the NFL makes sure the product on the field gets the short end on officiating. 

You'd think the Browns could have dug out of the doldrums by now. Maybe, just maybe the league doesn't want them to.

That was a  real  memorable time in the NFL,  city of Cleveland and BROWNS  history and well documented too !  

In that time when there were two new expansion teams Carolina and Jacksonville,   and the owners had to do those expansion lists of available players to just take by the new owners.   The NFL did NOT want another disaster like  "TB"  Tampa Bay so they came up with this new really generous expansion program and top draft picks. 

Well it almost worked too well Carolina became a playoff team in no time (and a good owner) even Jacksonville got good fast.

Then along comes Mr Modell and his high jinks and other stuff (again well documented) and Baltimore had an NFL team......again. (remember Irsay, Indianapolis).

Well the city of Cleveland and BROWNS fans everywhere revolted !   And how, when the Houston Oilers moved to Tennessee there was hardly a whimper, one meeting between the fans and reporters there were more reporters than fans show up.  The reason among others was they were Dallas Cowboys fans anyhow.  Not so in Cleveland. 

We all remember the hubbub and reporting that followed  the 1996 to 1999 no NFL desert in Cleveland.   Then along comes the promised new team....but 

1. The other owners remember the ordeal just a few years ago and made far less concessions to the new/old BROWNS. 

2. Face it the new Browns did not have a great FO leadership they botched the initial and many subsequent drafts especially with all of the #1 picks well documented here on TBB and elsewhere.   Then started the ongoing FO/ HC/ starting QB carousel that lives even today October 26, 2022.  Remember the beginning front page of SI with Big Dog Couch or ???? ?   Cleveland picked Couch......

Just my time on this soapbox is over.    GO BROWNS  !

MTY5MDk4NjI3OTAyNDgxODgz.webp

[FY56]

On 10/24/2022 at 5:34 AM, Westside Steve said:

Too lazy to look it up but I don't doubt that the revenue from the worldwide Wrestling Federation is in the billions, or at least a lot of Millions.

Do you think CASINO was entirely fashioned out of whole cloth?

WSS

Except that pro wrestling fans know very well it's rigged, which is exactly why it attracts fans...and dollars.

The fun part of being a wrestling fan is you become a participant in the charade. They're having a blast during their time spent in a world of make believe.

[Westside Steve]

5 minutes ago, FY56 said:

Except that pro wrestling fans know very well it's rigged, which is exactly why it attracts fans...and dollars.

The fun part of being a wrestling fan is you become a participant in the charade. They're having a blast during their time spent in a world of make believe.

Haha. Too lazy to look it up but I bet there's a Las Vegas line out there for Big Time wrestlers.

WSS 

[FY56]

16 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Haha. Too lazy to look it up but I bet there's a Las Vegas line out there for Big Time wrestlers.

WSS 

There is. You would have to bet solely on who you think they've rigged to win that day. No analysis involved. Just a guess.

Oh wait...or bet on the guy who can best take 5-6 bare fisted shots in a row to the face without even sustaining a nick or bruise!

[jrb12711]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

You have some legitimate concerns.  First, NFL owners get an overwhelming majority of their profit from the shared revenue of the TV Contract monopoly, not to be confused with home attendance.  That being the case, why else do you think they're trying to increase their viewing audiences to the other side of the Atlantic Ocean in England.  IMO, it doesn't look like they want the Cleveland Browns promoting the NFL product any time soon.  It's almost like they knew all this was coming.  And on 4th and 5 where the correct encroachment call gives Cleveland a 1st down or about 2 inches left to go for it on 4th down.  There's a major opportunity for a group of guys that can control the outcome of the game knowing Cleveland is about the 31st or 32nd priority to Goodell.  The Browns didn't even get the usual apology letter from the NFL Office after the horrible call in Baltimore - so I'm guessing they're comfortably Goodell's 32nd priority.  Just a guess though

Goodell really wanted to prove all the naysayers wrong about 2 teams thriving in the LA market (even though past teams in the same market like the LA Rams couldn't sell out in seasons they made the playoffs).  Guess what happened, the first or second year the Chargers moved to LA - BOTH LA teams were in the playoffs.  Meanwhile, everyone on the planet that saw the blatant pass interference penalty by the Rams on the New Orleans WR (in the playoffs) never get called by either official in position to make that call saw an ideal way officials can control the outcome of a game. Do you think anyone on the officiating crew didn't know how bad Goodell wanted a team in the LA market making it deep into the playoffs or to a Super Bowl? After that, the Rams made it to the Super Bowl.  And guess who else was suddenly back in the playoffs that same post season?  The Chargers.  Meanwhile the Cleveland Browns and their mirror image in the NFC (Detroit Lions) were home watching the playoffs while their fans were discussing who needed to be fired and who could help their teams in the draft. 

When there's another game in England this Sunday, try to think why this is happening.  This is the last year DirecTV (and the affiliated networks) have the monopoly paying those very generous shared revenues to owners.  Goodell is marketing HIS league beyond the USA for the next for the next Monopoly to keep the NFL owners rich.  Unfortunately, some of the old NFL franchises with storied traditions like Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago just aren't Goodell's ideal franchises to market to other countries. Like it or not, the LAST THING he wants to put on display is the team that went all in on DeShaun Watson regardless of where people in here stand on that.  The revenue owners bring in from those TV contracts far exceeds what they get from home attendance.  

It sure looks like when Rodger wants to see something happen - it has a way of unfolding that way, coincidentally or not....

Indeed, very well said. It's of course apparent that the Browns have made terrible, terrible decisions over the past 20+ years. There's a lot to be said about the organization's failures being a direct result of the lack of developing and drafting talent, namely at the QB position. But what you're (and I'm) saying here isn't some tin foil hat conspiracy. Depressed organizations in depressed cities (Detroit, Cleveland, Jacksonville, etc) aren't going to be on the poster of the global brand the NFL and Roger wants. 

In a game of inches, every call counts and the Browns will never get those without turning the tide. That comes with drafting a likeable, franchise QB (see Burrow, Josh Allen) in similar markets where the league has reason to support. We've made a bed where this won't be the case for the next several years. Just sucks.

[FY56]

On 10/24/2022 at 6:23 PM, Orion said:

And why on earth would that be?  Is the Foxborough Patriots their idea of 'prime time'?  The no-mans-land of Green Bay?  The roiling hot Arizona?  Why would they care which run of the mill town had a talented, entertaining and winning football team?  We have a rich tradition.  We have intense fans who'd fill the stands and be loud.  

Yeah, we sure do.

[FY56]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:35 AM, hoorta said:

IIRC, the NFL is the only professional sports league that doesn't have paid full time officials. With their multi-billion dollar revenue streams, they can certainly afford to do so. You have guys whose day jobs are accountants and  lawyers reffing NFL games as a sideline. 

MLB has a 162-game season. The NBA 82.

Can't imagine what the NFL refs could be doing to occupy their time after a 17 game season.

Perhaps do some accounting or lawyering as a sideline.

 

[nickers]

I don't know how true this is... But I at least found it interesting...

 

 

[Flugel]

8 minutes ago, nickers said:

I don't know how true this is... But I at least found it interesting...

 

 

I thought Williams did a nice job as Interim Head Coach when he had nothing to lose during a slew of games that meant nothing more than preseason football.  I like his approach and I think players respond to it - even the pottymouth Shakespeare when he doesn't go too far. 

If he's coming back as the DC, we got bit in the fanny with some unsound things he tried at times.  That also happened in his next gig with the Jets (?) so that would be the 1 concern I do have.   IMO, he's a pretty good teacher - which I'm hearing the guys on our defense are longing for.  We shall see...

Thanks for sharing that Nicks...

[nickers]

Just now, Flugel said:

I thought Williams did a nice job as Interim Head Coach when he had nothing to lose during a slew of games that meant nothing more than preseason football.  I like his approach and I think players respond to it - even the pottymouth Shakespeare when he doesn't go too far. 

If he's coming back as the DC, we got bit in the fanny with some unsound things he tried at times.  That also happened in his next gig with the Jets (?) so that would be the 1 concern I do have.   IMO, he's a pretty good teacher - which I'm hearing the guys on our defense are longing for.  We shall see...

Thanks for sharing that Nicks...

I love his badass mentality... I need to find this clip of him talking about not just defending the field... But every blade of grass... His father must've been an evangelical preacher... He has that pastoral quality about him when he's spewing cuss words with the vitriol of Reverend Trask LOL..

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, FY56 said:

MLB has a 162-game season. The NBA 82.

Can't imagine what the NFL refs could be doing to occupy their time after a 17 game season.

Perhaps do some accounting or lawyering as a sideline.

 

Review game tape to see where they screwed up?   Nah- you're right, full time refs probably will never happen. 

[Westside Steve]

15 hours ago, hoorta said:

Review game tape to see where they screwed up?   Nah- you're right, full time refs probably will never happen. 

🤣 maybe they get together over cocktails and discuss which team owners are more generous when they bribe and official for a phantom holding, pass interference or roughing the passer call and/or overlooking the same calls at different times.

Maybe discussing the advantages / disadvantages of owning a Porsche or a Lamborghini?

Perhaps swapping stories about their respective ophthalmologists?

WSS

[Kvoethe]

If you look at the tape on the penalty...the snapper double clutches the ball causing the ravens to jump.  Sorry...No conspiracy here...just bad coaching/execution

[Orion]

Yup.  The league hates us.  The refs get rewarded for making calls that steer us towards a loss.   Yadda yadda.  Do ya know how many times a year I hear that from Patriots fans?  

Has anyone ever heard an ex official report that they're instructed to try and sway a game one way or another to 'benefit' the league?  Any of 'em ever come out with a book? 

 

[nickers]

11 minutes ago, Orion said:

Yup.  The league hates us.  The refs get rewarded for making calls that steer us towards a loss.   Yadda yadda.  Do ya know how many times a year I hear that from Patriots fans?  

Has anyone ever heard an ex official report that they're instructed to try and sway a game one way or another to 'benefit' the league?  Any of 'em ever come out with a book? 

 

If Jimmy The Greek was still alive I'm sure he would have some stories to tell...

[gumby73]

3 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

If you look at the tape on the penalty...the snapper double clutches the ball causing the ravens to jump.  Sorry...No conspiracy here...just bad coaching/execution

not buying that Kv..

not after that long of a refs huddle.. to conclude, that M.Dunn was the number that was called that never moved.. Charlie Hughlett is a all pro long-snapper..

In his snap position.. He's allowed to look between his legs to spot the holder// your shoulders will only allow you to raise the ball towards it point on the ground, when he peeks back .. the ball never leaves the turf.. the ball tilt angle does

just more bad officiating