Ethan Pocic

[syd]

former 2nd round pick from lsu made the nfl all rookie team has started games at left and right guard and  i assuming he was released because of injury so Berry picks him up for 1.6 million and has been nothing short of a beast

[nickers]

The kid has been nothing short of being stalwart!

[syd]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

The kid has been nothing short of being stalwart!

the knock on him was in pass protection seems he has cleaned that up

[Dutch Oven]

Pocic stepped up big. 

Is it possible that he is now the longterm center for the Browns?

[Orion]

Yup.  We don't hear his name during games, do we.....

[Unsympathetic]

only OL on the browns in t10 at his position for both RB and PB. All stats are flawed, but some are useful..

Note at the bottom the team win rates.  Shows that if our DI wasn't below-replacement-level, we'd actually have a very good defense.

[TypicalBrowns50]

Need to resign him asap 

[Unsympathetic]

Other FA to consider re-signing besides Pocic and Hunt

Takitaki -- As last game showed, [much] better than Phillips 

Anthony Walker -- I'd try to keep both because competent LB has not been common around here.  But likely not because he was signed to a one-year deal that for some reason has 4 void years afterwards.  Yes you read that right, he's 600k against the cap each of 2023-2026.

 

Looking ahead, be aware of DPJ - 2023 is end of rookie contract - Value will be 10-12 or more..

Isaiah Thomas will be our 3rd man in the edge rusher rotation for the next couple years after Clowney isn't re-signed... Pretty sure the last time you could legitimately have confidence in a Browns backup edge being able to consistently generate pressure was sometime in the 80's.. Gone are the days of talking yourself into Porter Gustin or Nate Orchard..

[jiggins7919]

Things to consider:  

Pocic is 28 and Harris is 23. 

Who wouldn't look pretty good sandwiched between Joel and Wyatt? 

Pocic's contract is up at the end of the year. 

We desperately avoid salary cap hell, and we're good at it. I for one think we should get a deal done NOW and save money. If we wait, we'll lose him to highest bidder. Pocic has to cash in now at this stage of his life. 

[Flugel]

21 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Things to consider:  

Pocic is 28 and Harris is 23. 

Who wouldn't look pretty good sandwiched between Joel and Wyatt? 

Pocic's contract is up at the end of the year. 

We desperately avoid salary cap hell, and we're good at it. I for one think we should get a deal done NOW and save money. If we wait, we'll lose him to highest bidder. Pocic has to cash in now at this stage of his life. 

Wyatt hasn't even been playing in the last 3-4 games or so; and Pocic is still looking good.  This reminds me of the year we signed FA LeCharles Bentley for big money only to lose him to a season ending injury in the very 1st practice of training camp (non-contact session in shorts).  Then we auditioned 4 or 5 more guys unsuccessfully before trading with Philly for Hank Fraley (who was beaten out by a younger player in Andy Reid's offense).  The guy came here and immediately fit right in, made all the calls and excelled for us.  The guy could still pull around end from the Center position.  In his 2nd year with us the Browns went 10-6; and much to the luck of Cleveland that was a rare year 10 wins wasn't enough to make the playoffs. Anyway, he was an invaluable addition who exceeded the expectation much like Pocic has done. Hopefully we can find a creative way to keep Pocic.

As for a BIG contract extension, keep in mind there's a 230 million $ guaranteed salary to deal with that will force some robbing Peter to pay Paul.  If we want to seriously contend, we have to start giving our defense similar attention we've given to guys like Bitonio, Teller, Conklin, Chubb, Cooper, Njoku.  Unfortunately, we've committed 100 million $ over 5 years to a very talented corner that's developed a tendency to get injured/concussions. Myles Garrett has a contract he deserves.  That video of Safety John Johnson's business decision of refusing to make an attempt to tackle a Baltimore Raven RB at the 4 yard line has me hoping we find a more deserving player to pay FA $ to. A guy like this won't put it on the line for us when the chips are down - his agent will remind him not to jeopardize his future for the Cleveland Browns.  Guys like Bitonio, Teller and Chubb have been rewarded with new contracts for their efforts here so they DO put it on the line for us; and the same holds true with Garrett.

Right now, there's a guy on our defense re-emerging like he did down the stretch of the year we made the playoffs (Takitaki).  He wasn't drafted by this FO so he hasn't had the same chances our other LBers have had.  That said, he seems far more trustworthy out there than a lot of Berry's personnel choices.  He tackles people and forces turnovers like he did that year we made the playoffs.  What he may give up in footspeed he compensates for in 1st step instinct as well as playing the game with his eyes.  In doing so, he's always in better position to make the tackle, force the turnover or make the interception. For example, he had the 4th interception of Roethlisberger in our playoff W at Pittsburgh at their 49 yard line and returned it to about the 30 yard line or so. I think he also had another clutch INT in 1 of the gotta-have wins late in that season. There's something to be said about a LBer (here) that can keep his head up all the way through a play, which often becomes the difference between a successful form tackle with the head up and an ill-afforded miss due to a lame arm tackle effort with the head down/eyes off the ball carrier.  I'm hoping to see players rewarded for their effort and success when given the opportunity more so than what FO staff brought them here.  However, Ward wasn't brought here by this Andrew Berry and he has been rewarded with a contract I'm suddenly concerned about (mostly because of durability/concussion tendencies).  We're not particularly strong at LB and IDL so Takitaki has been a breath of fresh air we needed. Let's hope it continues.  This defense doesn't need any more guys with the instincts of a raccoon crossing a busy highway at night time - even if they can run really fast straight ahead (on the rare occasions they know where they're going).

IMO, if we can bring our defense up to something like we saw last week more consistently - it's going to be fun to watch both sides of the ball here.  I wouldn't mind seeing a big, talented run stuffer inside that can also get after the QB if need be.  As much as I like Tommy T -  he's still in "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" mode.  We need a bad that shows up with "Give your soul to God because you're ass belongs to me for the next 3 hours!"  Don't give me this Harvard Legally Blonde crap like "we don't pay Defensive Tackles big dollars."  I'm not talking about Gerrard Warren - I'm talking about DTs that LOVE football enough to bring the passion along with the talent.  Guys that have evidence they'll keep Big Uglies inside off their LBers or give a great inside push commanding 2 blockers or just pack difference making material  that consistently shows up on film.  Our luck?  Butch Davis once went after a guy most teams that did their pre-draft homework on summarized as lazy and uninspired (Gerrard Warren); so THAT is what many fans think of when they hear DT as an early draft priority - fair or not unfortunately.  The same guy (Butch) also said he wasn't worried about passing up on LaDainian Tomlinson at #3 overall because James Jackson is every bit as good as Edgerrin James was.  Then again, we're not drafting in round 1 for 2 more years.

Let's see what happens...

[Dutch Oven]

8 minutes ago, Flugel said:

IMO, if we can bring our defense up to something like we saw last week more consistently - it's going to be fun to watch both sides of the ball here.  I wouldn't mind seeing a big, talented run stuffer inside that can also get after the QB if need be.  As much as I like Tommy T -  he's still in "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" mode.  We need a bad that shows up with "Give your soul to God because you're ass belongs to me for the next 3 hours!"  Don't give me this Harvard Legally Blonde crap like "we don't pay Defensive Tackles big dollars."  I'm not talking about Gerrard Warren - I'm talking about DTs that LOVE football enough to bring the passion along with the talent.  Guys that have evidence they'll keep Big Uglies inside off their LBers or give a great inside push commanding 2 blockers or just pack difference making material  that consistently shows up on film.  Our luck?  Butch Davis once went after a guy most teams that did their pre-draft homework on summarized as lazy and uninspired (Gerrard Warren); so THAT is what many fans think of when they hear DT as an early draft priority - fair or not unfortunately.  The same guy (Butch) also said he wasn't worried about passing up on LaDainian Tomlinson at #3 overall because James Jackson is every bit as good as Edgerrin James was.  Then again, we're not drafting in round 1 for 2 more years.

 

While the "We passed on LaDainian Tomlinson for Gerard Warren" narrative is a completely valid source of frustration, an almost forgotten fact is that the Browns also passed on a far superior DTackle by passing on Richard Seymour too. 

[tiamat63]

 There's a big thing Pocic brings to the table that Nick Harris doesn't  - wingspan. 

 Because of that, the pulls and reach blocking from the center spot can be, IMHO (subtle nod there) a bit more creative and better executed.  When you have arms like Ethan, they can be a real weapon on the interior. 

[SdBacker80]

6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 There's a big thing Pocic brings to the table that Nick Harris doesn't  - wingspan. 

 Because of that, the pulls and reach blocking from the center spot can be, IMHO (subtle nod there) a bit more creative and better executed.  When you have arms like Ethan, they can be a real weapon on the interior. 

Was it you or someone else that pointed out the negative with his size in this scheme or the position in general?  
 

He was a complete liability in Seattle in regard to pass blocking. 
 

He might be the biggest surprise of our season 

[tiamat63]

2 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Was it you or someone else that pointed out the negative with his size in this scheme or the position in general?  
 

He was a complete liability in Seattle in regard to pass blocking. 
 

He might be the biggest surprise of our season 

The "negative" to his size involves a couple big things.

- His height relative to anchoring vs bull rush from IDL

- His height possibly effecting your QB's vision of the field 

 

However those negatives also come with the big positive(s) I listed above.  So at that point it becomes a trade off on what this team values pro/con.  

[Flugel]

22 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

While the "We passed on LaDainian Tomlinson for Gerard Warren" narrative is a completely valid source of frustration, an almost forgotten fact is that the Browns also passed on a far superior DTackle by passing on Richard Seymour too. 

Worthy of note!  Yeah, Richard Seymour was an awesome DL that played both DT and DE exceptionally well.  For a guy that was 6'6" he could get down and play with better leverage and pad height the some of the shorter/compact, powerful OGs he went against.  Against the run - he was unblockable whether it was from a 5 technique or inside.  Starting with his frame, he reminded me a lot of JJ Watt in the sense that either guy (in spite of their frame/height) could succeed in either a 3-4 or a 4-3. Don't get me wrong, they also had some distinctive differences.  It seemed like Wade Phillips liked JJ to play more at DE in either front; but he didn't resist temptation to kick him inside on occasion when various matchups warranted exploitation.  Phillips kicked JJ inside/moved him around against us here and there; especially when he was having no luck at all against Joe Thomas - it made for a productive respite. 

[SdBacker80]

On 11/5/2022 at 8:06 AM, jiggins7919 said:

Things to consider:  

Pocic is 28 and Harris is 23. 

Who wouldn't look pretty good sandwiched between Joel and Wyatt? 

Pocic's contract is up at the end of the year. 

We desperately avoid salary cap hell, and we're good at it. I for one think we should get a deal done NOW and save money. If we wait, we'll lose him to highest bidder. Pocic has to cash in now at this stage of his life. 

This is a classic A Bird in the Hand is worth two in the bush scenario.

And Harris will be paid soon too IF he proves he is worthy at this level.  What I’ve seen from Pocic thus far is better than what I’ve seen from Harris. 
 

I think our coach, scheme, surrounding Oline personnel and backs allow coming into this offensive line unit much easier than what we normally see.  But you could easily be the weakest link here and it would be very apparent.  While there is something to be said about the four things I listed above…you gotta have some talent too…I think Pocic has it
 

 

[jiggins7919]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:41 AM, SdBacker80 said:

I think our coach, scheme, surrounding Oline personnel and backs allow coming into this offensive line unit much easier than what we normally see.  But you could easily be the weakest link here and it would be very apparent.  While there is something to be said about the four things I listed above…you gotta have some talent too…I think Pocic has it
 

I'd sign him immediately, but we also have multiple giant contracts beginning next year. We'll lose Conklin though, so that helps, but money will be tight. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:20 PM, syd said:

former 2nd round pick from lsu made the nfl all rookie team has started games at left and right guard and  i assuming he was released because of injury so Berry picks him up for 1.6 million and has been nothing short of a beast

Big League move from Berry. Honestly, I have no issues with the man. I think he is top notch.

Say whatever about Watson, but Mayfield was pure shit, and nobody is going to the SB with Garropolo or the other guys available.

Brissett, to me is a solid acquisition who has played well enough that we could easily have been 6-2