Not even one full season in...

[Dutch Oven]

and the disaster that has been the 2022 Denver Broncos season has claimed first year Head Coach Nathaniel Hackett, who has been fired. 

[Bob806]

11 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

and the disaster that has been the 2022 Denver Broncos season has claimed first year Head Coach Nathaniel Hackett, who has been fired. 

Scapegoat for Elway's total mismanagement of that team. I hope they suck for 40 more years.

[Dutch Oven]

28 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Scapegoat for Elway's total mismanagement of that team. I hope they suck for 40 more years.

You have to wonder how long they are going to keep him aboard too... 

Players fighting on the sideline is never a good look for a head coach already on the hot seat. 

[tiamat63]

One part scapegoat, one part just tragically bad coaching.      

Can't tell which one is the dominant trait yet though.  

[Bob806]

10 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

You have to wonder how long they are going to keep him aboard too... 

Players fighting on the sideline is never a good look for a head coach already on the hot seat. 

Mr. Elway duped the Bowlen family into moving him up in the front office. They weren't going to fire a "legend."

Elway was a great QB. Remember though, he's always put himself 1st. Bailed on the Balt Colts who drafted him. He was more of a diva than TO or Antonio Brown.

[syd]

fuck tom brady I bet on zona yesterday

[Unsympathetic]

Along the lines of the recent FTX reveal.. soon we'll find the Discord chat of all the Broncos coaches named "Let's Suck in 2022"

For those of you who weren't following FTX.. They planned their crimes beginning in 2019 in a private Discord chat they named "Wirefraud".  They're now charged with wire fraud - and other felonies.

[mjp28]

3 hours ago, syd said:

fuck tom brady I bet on zona yesterday

If you had AZ +6' then you covered.   

Now the Denver and John Elway story runs a lot deeper than that bet.  It is hard to replace a former Super Bowl Champion Quarterback which they are in the middle of right now.

[Canton Dawg]

Elway’s inability to draft a franchise QB over his tenure is coming home to roost.

Not to mention the HC carousel.

[Dutch Oven]

Not sure where to put this, but I saw this earlier....

 "Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has taken a liking to the pass heavy system of the Tennessee Volunteers and would like to implement something similar for the Browns offense next year, even if that means bringing in another offensive mind, according to CBS insider Jonathan Jones."

 

[Dutch Oven]

There's a big part of me that thinks nothing changes this offseason, and we'll probably see more of the same in 2023. 

There's a smaller part of me that thinks that demands are made of Stefanski, and he either gives up calling the offense at the demand of people above him, or else. 

[Orion]

8 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

"Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has taken a liking to

...the emperor wants to go water skiing.  Row Faster!

Honestly, I agree with emperor Haslam.  I'd prefer to be a really good passing team than a really good running team...if I had to choose.

[syd]

4 hours ago, mjp28 said:

If you had AZ +6' then you covered.   

Now the Denver and John Elway story runs a lot deeper than that bet.  It is hard to replace a former Super Bowl Champion Quarterback which they are in the middle of right now.

i most allways bet the moneyline

[FY56]

11 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Elway’s inability to draft a franchise QB over his tenure is coming home to roost.

Not to mention the HC carousel.

 

I digress..Failure to acquire a franchise QB and a HC carousel sounds all too familiar lol

Ok, back to topic

[Browns149]

3 hours ago, FY56 said:

 

I digress..Failure to acquire a franchise QB and a HC carousel sounds all too familiar lol

Ok, back to topic

Horsetooth jackass

[tiamat63]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

 

 "Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has taken a liking to the pass heavy system of the Tennessee Volunteers and would like to implement something similar for the Browns offense next year

 

 

 That same Tennessee which was so pass heavy that the Georgia defense, who has only registered 27 sacks on the whole season,  was able to tee off on Hooker and Co.  ?  Then proceed to beat same Vols ass with an offense from 2002.

 

 Jimmy Haslam can be the Tennessee equivalent of Jerry Jones at times.  He'd do well to shut THEE fuck up about all football related matters outside of the usual, and maybe let professionals do their actual job. 

[SdBacker80]

14 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Not sure where to put this, but I saw this earlier....

 "Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has taken a liking to the pass heavy system of the Tennessee Volunteers and would like to implement something similar for the Browns offense next year, even if that means bringing in another offensive mind, according to CBS insider Jonathan Jones."

 

This will go over well in Nov./Dev. Games and I think we neglect our Hall of Fame RB enough 

[SdBacker80]

14 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

There's a big part of me that thinks nothing changes this offseason, and we'll probably see more of the same in 2023. 

There's a smaller part of me that thinks that demands are made of Stefanski, and he either gives up calling the offense at the demand of people above him, or else. 

I don’t see how the defensive coaches and Special Teams coach make it into next season.  Is Joe Woods gonna cry he doesn’t have his guys for a third straight offseason?  There is gonna be some interesting stuff that comes out when axes fall and others are hired.  We’ve heard whispers and passive aggressive comments from players. 
 

i thought Stefanki was pretty creative for a season and half.  He’s been down right stupid this year.  I don’t think he should call plays until discipline returns to this team and all sides of the ball are in order. 

[Neo]

14 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Not sure where to put this, but I saw this earlier....

 "Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has taken a liking to the pass heavy system of the Tennessee Volunteers and would like to implement something similar for the Browns offense next year, even if that means bringing in another offensive mind, according to CBS insider Jonathan Jones."

 

The Haslams need to sell the team. We will always be stuck in the same place until somebody who cares buys the team.

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, Neo said:

The Haslams need to sell the team. We will always be stuck in the same place until somebody who cares buys the team.

The Haslams absolutely DO care about the Browns succeeding.

The problem is the Haslams have no idea what they are doing. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 12/26/2022 at 12:43 PM, Bob806 said:

Scapegoat for Elway's total mismanagement of that team. I hope they suck for 40 more years.

Here's my 2 cents on this. My dad taught me  that it's OK to follow orders if you are OK with with those orders. However , if Someone asks you to do something that goes against your grain and against your beliefs, then you have betrayed yourself if you follow those orders.

I really don't give a shit about the Broncos or John Elway, however with regards to the Browns, Kevin Stefanski is the wrong coach and he should be fired . Here is why I say this.

If this season is representative of the coach's ability then clearly he stinks. If however it is representative of him doing what others above him are telling him to do and he swallows it at the expense of the team and the very short lived careers of the players, then he is even more unfit to coach.

By standards of common sense, morality and ethics, Stefanski must be fired.

 

[syd]

maybe we could bring in urban meyer

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

The Haslams absolutely DO care about the Browns succeeding.

The problem is the Haslams have no idea what they are doing. 

Nice job with that because it was a very important clarification.  The Co-owner and President of the Buffalo Bills (Kim Pegula) graduated from Fairport High School in 1987 (5 years after I did).  Anyway, she and her husband purchased the Buffalo Bills in 2014 for 1.4 billion $; and you can see where they've taken that franchise.

If you want to compete in a passing era - it's crucial that you hire the right FO people that are not only going to draft/find you the right young QB; but they are also going to put him in the best possible environment to develop him for success.   The Buffalo Bills did this with Josh Allen.  They've done a phenomenal job of developing him and getting him through some early growing pains to being the star we see out there today.   I'm not confident Haslam has the mind or the correct FO people to lean on for this to happen.  

That's my worry; but I'm largely outnumbered by people that just want new coaches.  I'm fine with bringing in new coaches if they're actually upgrades; which is often when the light at the end of the tunnel becomes the head lamp of an oncoming train for this franchise.  When there's a repetitive need to fire the coaches they hire every 2-3 years - what's that say about their ability to hire the upgrade or their hiring criteria in general?  Is it possible, that it is actually the people in charge of the hiring and firing that are the main ones perpetuating the ongoing dumpster fire?   And when a Coordinator has a plan that gets power played by Paul Depodesta's idea that DTs aren't important especially when Depodesta wants lighter/leaner framed LBers (which has a body count of 4 on IR meaning we're currently watching guys that were #3 on the depth chart here or they came from another team via trade). He got what he paid for this year.  In spite of that hot mess, the defense has shown far more improvement than the offense over the last 4-5 games or so - albeit they did collapse when the Saints started inserting Taysom Hill in lieu of Dalton.  

 

[Dutch Oven]

16 minutes ago, Flugel said:

That's my worry; but I'm largely outnumbered by people that just want new coaches.  I'm fine with bringing in new coaches if they're actually upgrades; which is often when the light at the end of the tunnel becomes the head lamp of an oncoming train for this franchise.  When there's a repetitive need to fire the coaches they hire every 2-3 years - what's that say about their ability to hire the upgrade or their hiring criteria in general?  Is it possible, that it is actually the people in charge of the hiring and firing that are the main ones perpetuating the ongoing dumpster fire?  

Firing Kevin Stefanski by himself, with the same people in charge above him, will do nothing. 

I have no problem with "smart people" being in charge. I do have a problem with smart people being in charge that create a soft team, that do not make their players be accountable, that do not make adjustments. 

I want a team that can outscheme a team when needed, and who can also just flat-out get down and dirty and win ugly games. I swear to dog I think Stefanski, Depodesta, et al would rather lose their way then win by any means necessary. ALL HAIL 'THE PROCESS'.

You ever see the Kevin Costner/Sean Connery movie 'The Untouchables'? I want my football team to have the mindset that if the other team puts one of them in the hospital, then they'll put one of theirs in the fucking morgue. This team has little heart. This team has little pride. This team has no accountability. This team has no leadership.

I think, by and large, the front office and coaching staff is coming back intact in 2023. Perhaps Joe Woods or Priefer will be a sacrificial lamb, but that's about it, IMO. And I expect to see the same mediocre results next year.  

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

1) I'm not confident Haslam has the mind or the correct FO people to lean on for this to happen.  

2) That's my worry; but I'm largely outnumbered by people that just want new coaches.

1) I’m in total agreement with this statement, the team as a whole has regressed since the high water mark of 2020.

2) I was a fan of both Baker and Stefanski, but they both seem to be on a similar trajectory. When Mayfield played and started winning games, we thought of him as a spectacular QB. However, since the previous QB’s sucked ass so bad his mediocre play left the fans star struck. Same situation with Stefanski, he followed the likes of Chud, Shurmer, Hue, Kitchens, and looked like a rock star following that ensemble of guys posing as a HC. As of today, I think of him as just another mediocre head coach.
 

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Firing Kevin Stefanski by himself, with the same people in charge above him, will do nothing. 

Couldn’t agree more, until we get a new owner along with giving the FO an enema…it’s going to be same shit different day.

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Firing Kevin Stefanski by himself, with the same people in charge above him, will do nothing. 

I have no problem with "smart people" being in charge. I do have a problem with smart people being in charge that create a soft team, that do not make their players be accountable, that do not make adjustments. 

I want a team that can outscheme a team when needed, and who can also just flat-out get down and dirty and win ugly games. I swear to dog I think Stefanski, Depodesta, et al would rather lose their way then win by any means necessary. ALL HAIL 'THE PROCESS'.

You ever see the Kevin Costner/Sean Connery movie 'The Untouchables'? I want my football team to have the mindset that if the other team puts one of them in the hospital, then they'll put one of theirs in the fucking morgue. This team has little heart. This team has little pride. This team has no accountability. This team has no leadership.

I think, by and large, the front office and coaching staff is coming back intact in 2023. Perhaps Joe Woods or Priefer will be a sacrificial lamb, but that's about it, IMO. And I expect to see the same mediocre results next year.  

I want every ounce of that too!  Haslam sure picks the wrong time to be patient.  I have the impression that Stefanski was Depodesta's guy, which has felt like the Head Coach/leader on the sideline is a spreadsheet with no fire demanding accountability for one's actions.  How can he be this when his only concern on game day is burying his nose in a spread sheet for the next offensive play only?

When the NFL Channel shows clips revisiting champions from previous years/decades - they'll show a pissed off Vince Lombardi yelling "EVERYONE IS JUST GRABBING!  GRAB GRAB GRAB!"   Or, they will show a fired up Bill Parcells vetoing the best DC on the planet at the time (Bill Belichick) into his head set with what he wants to see.  He'd even be available if there was a guy on Special Teams on the verge of getting a penalty for nonsense after the whistle threatening that guy that if he costs his team 15 yards he'd cut him.  There's no personality, fire or accountability demanded from our Head Coach, which seems to be what Depodesta wants.

Remember when the Bengals always made the playoffs when Zimmer was their DC only to one and done every single post season?  He got hired by Minnesota and both Stefanski and Priefer coached under him.   This team soft just like those 2 franchises were.  Good teams that were pretenders instead of contenders.  Today, we're Zimmer soft with personality-free leadership.

If Haslam continues to make Depodesta his football Bible and go-to guy for planning and solutions, are we wasting our time?  I've never felt less connected to my favorite team than this one (even the 1-31 group).  Something at least made me feel bad for them when they lost.  These guys?  They look like they're dreaming of greener pastures elsewhere, which is a direct reflection of the leadership.  The Movie "Remember the Titans"  - the 2 biggest studs on their defense have heated words at heated words at each other.  Bear with me here because this is an old man's paraphrase.  1 guy tells the Captain, "you want me to put it on the line for the team when your white buddy wouldn't block for/protect Rev/the QB. Naw, I'm gonna get me mine."  The Captain replied, "that's the worst attitude I've ever seen."  The other guy responded back with "Attitude reflect leadership."

Spreadsheets are fine but not at the expense of character; chemistry; trust; cohesion; intensity; emotion; leadership; effort; will, etc.  I want a Head Coach you described Dutch; but I have a sick feeling this is the opposite of the "yes sir" kind of guy Depodesta really wanted Haslam to hire.  Is this really who Stefanski is or the guy Depodesta wants him to be? And another thing, Stefanski was hired 2 weeks before Andrew Berry - which doesn't guarantee compatible football philosophies.  It only guarantees compatibility with Depodesta.  Are Berry and Depodesta compatible?  I don't get the impression Depodesta would even want a Sean Payton.  He'll want the next HC to be a Kevin Stefanski clone; and it would be interesting to see if Andrew Berry has enough say to intervene if something like this is about to go down.  Who knows?  But how does Haslam be a minority owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers when they were the model of consistency and learn absolutely zero about the business? 

I'm not young enough to keep being patient with the people/guy Haslam is leaning on at the top.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Flugel

[SdBacker80]

I may modify my opinion a bit if I get this one answered….

Do the analytics tell our Defensive Coordinator to sit back in soft zone coverages?  The pray that Myles gets to the QB defense.  We had a former kicker last week calling us out for not being aggressive enough.  
 

Im not asking for Greg Williams but somewhere in between Woods and Williams will do.  

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I may modify my opinion a bit if I get this one answered….

Do the analytics tell our Defensive Coordinator to sit back in soft zone coverages?  The pray that Myles gets to the QB defense.  We had a former kicker last week calling us out for not being aggressive enough.  
 

Im not asking for Greg Williams but somewhere in between Woods and Williams will do.  

Good question. I think they give the DC and Special Teams Coordinator total autonomy while they want Stefanski calling all the plays instead of our OC.  I mean they had to be horrified watching watching Van Pelt call the plays when Stefanski had COVID.  The Browns only scored 48 points that night (the defense scored our 1st 7 and the offense scored the last 41 points).  Come to think of it, I'm kind of missing the pressure our defense gave Roethlisberger that night.  I've never seen him throw 5 INTs in 1 game against the Browns before.  

I think you'll find a lot of agreement in here with your last statement.  If we try to figure out what they're thinking - we're gonna be belly-up on some Frasier Crane's Couch.