Grossi on The State of the Browns as the Season Comes to a Thud

[Dutch Oven]

[Dutch Oven]

I've been convinced for years that Paul DePodesta has photos of Jimmy Haslam fellating a goat. 

[syd]

hey just as long as everyone is happy 

[Orion]

The thing that I agree with here is the idea that the passing game is more valuable than the running game.  Unless you don't have a good one but have a good running game.

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Orion said:

The thing that I agree with here is the idea that the passing game is more valuable than the running game.  Unless you don't have a good one but have a good running game.

The problem is that this coaching staff and front office doesn't seem to take account the actual game as it is happening. 

The Saints, for example, did Saturday. 

[Orion]

4 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The problem is that this coaching staff and front office doesn't seem to take account the actual game as it is happening.

I thought the HC did take into account.  He tried like hell to run the ball.  31 times.  They just weren't able to run it down the field.  And, of course, on D we had nothing for their Wild Cat desperation.  As not great as our DT's are we are really into the depth chart at LB.  

[Orion]

Now, to the gorilla in the room.   DePodesta runs the operation and Haslam cheers him on and paves the way.   We don't need no stinking 4 yard runs.

Perhaps we haven't been giving Stef enough credit?!   He's been managing the game and running the team with both DePodesta and Haslam wanting to be coach.

[Dutch Oven]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

Now, to the gorilla in the room.   DePodesta runs the operation and Haslam cheers him on and paves the way.   We don't need no stinking 4 yard runs.

Perhaps we haven't been giving Stef enough credit?!   He's been managing the game and running the team with both DePodesta and Haslam wanting to be coach.

Hence why I said on the other thread that firing Stefanski by himself accomplishes nothing. (And why Flugels has been beating this drum for weeks)

I don't need Bill Cowher. I don't need some meat head coach frothing at the mouth and punching players on the sideline. Want I want is an organization from the top down that hold themselves and their players accountable, that creates a culture of pride in playing football instead of just collecting a paycheck, and uses common sense.

Throwing the ball 15 yards downfield on a day that the windchill was -15 in 30mph winds is not common sense.

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Pretty much what I said all along.

I don't need inside information to knownthis fornI hag3 lived ir.

[Orion]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Throwing the ball 15 yards downfield on a day that the windchill was -15 in 30mph winds is not common sense.

The Patriots set passing records in blizzards.  

Stef might even be the best coach for this situation.  He's quite smart.  He's been able to navigate the waters and keep the analytic heads at bay with 4th down calls while not being totally nuts like I've seen many coaches doing.

[MDDawg]

14 hours ago, Orion said:

I thought the HC did take into account.  He tried like hell to run the ball.  31 times.  They just weren't able to run it down the field.  And, of course, on D we had nothing for their Wild Cat desperation.  As not great as our DT's are we are really into the depth chart at LB.  

Run plays 31 times but unimaginative plays, could've had more designed runs for Watson, Kareem and Chubb simultaneously on the field, direct snaps to RB etc.

[Orion]

4 hours ago, MDDawg said:

could've had more designed runs for Watson, Kareem and Chubb simultaneously on the field, direct snaps to RB etc.

okay, but me, I don't like my QB running with the ball unless he has to when a pass play breaks down or a running lane just happens to open up wide.  And I'm not a big fan of direct snaps.  It's not something they're at all accustomed to doing...and it pretty much tells the D what's coming.

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

The Patriots set passing records in blizzards. 

Post them.

I want to see the passing records set in Patriots games with a -15 wind chill and winds from 25-40mph. 

Would you like me to post what the passing stats were in the Red Right 88 game again, with MVP Brian Sipe and 2 time Super Bowl champion Jim Plunkett? 

3rd and 2 and 4th and 2, in successive plays, throwing downfield in those conditions was not the smart play. 

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Post them.

I want to see the passing records set in Patriots games with a -15 wind chill and winds from 25-40mph. 

Would you like me to post what the passing stats were in the Red Right 88 game again, with MVP Brian Sipe and 2 time Super Bowl champion Jim Plunkett? 

3rd and 2 and 4th and 2, in successive plays, throwing downfield in those conditions was not the smart play. 

It would be nice if the owner and FO guy he's leaning on knew this especially considering the climate in Cleveland/Lake Erie in late November through January.  If Depodesta doesn't get fired, we might as well hire Larry The Cable Guy as the next Head Coach to absorb all of the boos.

I thought I saw 1 windy/cold weather game the Patriots played in Buffalo where Belichick only let his young QB throw about 3 passes; and NE won as a result of that.   Another time I saw them play in bad weather, it was the controversial tuck rule game where Brady said he thought he fumbled the game away.  I don't know if it set a record; but I think someone should have contacted Ripley's Believe It or Not...

[Orion]

Pats beat the Titans 59-0 in snow and wind.  Pats QB's 38-45 for 426 yards.   

Watson threw 2 beautiful passes to DPJ and Njoku at the end of that game.  

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, Orion said:

Pats beat the Titans 59-0 in snow and wind.  Pats QB's 38-45 for 426 yards.   

Watson threw 2 beautiful passes to DPJ and Njoku at the end of that game.  

A relatively early season game in the snow is not a bitterly cold and windy game a week before January in Cleveland.

The second part is true. The first pass to DPJ was a gorgeous, on the run, across his body pass he perfectly placed in the back corner of the endzone that hit DPJ right in the hands. My one complaint I have of DPJ - that he sometimes allows the ball to play him instead of going and getting the ball - bit him there. The pass to Njoku was a rocket that Watson literally could not have walked to him and handed it to him any better. A perfect pass. 

That being said, Watson still was sitting at 50% for the game, and I thought he looked good considering the weather. In fact, a major question I've had regarding him was how he would handle the weather in late season games. From what I saw in the Baltimore and New Orleans games, two pretty nasty weather games, is that he's more than capable of handling the lakefront weather. That doesn't mean the Browns in cinrcumstances like that should be pass crazy.

Why you seem to back the direction the Browns are heading with this front office and coaching staff is beyond me. 

[Orion]

Dutch, I've watched countless snowy, windy Patriots games on TV with Brady at QB.  He was able to pass his team to victory every time.  

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, Orion said:

Dutch, I've watched countless snowy, windy Patriots games on TV with Brady at QB.  He was able to pass his team to victory every time.  

Well enjoy that table of one at the "I'm Enjoying the Direction the Browns Braintrust Is Taking the Franchise" end of the season dinner. 😉

[Axe]

On 12/27/2022 at 9:15 PM, syd said:

hey just as long as everyone is happy 

As long as the goats don't talk Or blame Watson for the transgressions

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Well enjoy that table of one at the "I'm Enjoying the Direction the Browns Braintrust Is Taking the Franchise" end of the season dinner. 😉

I'll have the steak tips.     

[Orion]

Look, I don't know what to say here.  Of course I don't like the losing.  But this team was not about this year.  We weren't gonna have our starting QB until the season was almost over.  Do I like that we're the 5th best running team in the league?  Absolutely.  Do I like that we're always 20 somethingth in passing.  Absolutely not!  I've always felt that passing is the most important part of the game.  Am I kinda' happy to hear that the brain-trust wants to be able to pass the ball?  Well, of course.

[ballpeen]

Some of these people seem to ignore that we are maybe 4th or 5th in the league in rushing attempts, yet all they say is "run the ball, run the ball".  They are beginning to sound like the Rainman.

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

Look, I don't know what to say here.  Of course I don't like the losing.  But this team was not about this year.  We weren't gonna have our starting QB until the season was almost over.  Do I like that we're the 5th best running team in the league?  Absolutely.  Do I like that we're always 20 somethingth in passing.  Absolutely not!  I've always felt that passing is the most important part of the game.  Am I kinda' happy to hear that the brain-trust wants to be able to pass the ball?  Well, of course.

The Browns went 4-7 this season not because Jacoby Brissett had to start 11 games (they averaged just a click under 24 points a game with him as the starter) but because the defense and special teams repeatedly let the team down. Brisset was a top 10 rated QB.

But yes, I agree, passing the ball well is important. Absolutely you need a top tier passing attack, hence why the Browns moved on from Mayfield to Watson. Also, the Browns run the ball plenty, as does Chubb. I'm not one of those guys who think the Browns should run Chubb into the ground by giving him the ball 25-30 times a game.

But their in-game decisions leave A TON to be desired. The weather is awful to pass in, you have a pivotal 3rd and 2 and 4th and 2, and Watson is forced to throw to DPJ on at out pattern to the sideline 15 yards downfield? Seriously? 

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, Orion said:

Dutch, I've watched countless snowy, windy Patriots games on TV with Brady at QB.  He was able to pass his team to victory every time.  

Snowy doesn't necessarily mean wind chills of 15 below zero off the lake.  I remember 1 year the SD Chargers had the best passing offense in the NFL with Dan Fouts.  They went and played a playoff game at Cincy with wind chills well below zero; and their passing game flatlined because of it.  If you're old enough to have seen that game you know exactly what I'm talking about.

When you think about the career of Aaron Rodgers, the only time he won a Super Bowl was when the Packers were a Wild Card team that won all their playoff games on the road.  I think the only chilly game they had to win was at Chicago in the NFC Championship Game against a very rattled Jay Cutler (who got injured before halftime and never returned to the game when a lot of people questioned his toughness).  

NE is owned by Robert Kraft and the Browns are owned by Jimmy Haslam. Which guy do you trust to find the right leadership for his football team?  A lot of people forget Brady didn't even start as a rookie; but there was a great HC that understood what needed to go into his development process for success ahead.  Haslam doesn't have anything like this in place.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Flugel

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

If you're old enough to have seen that game you know exactly what I'm talking about.

I watched it on what they used to call the color tv.   And 2 huge doors mysteriously opened allowing wind to blow into the field whenever San Diego was on that end of the field.  

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 12/27/2022 at 9:01 PM, Orion said:

Now, to the gorilla in the room.   DePodesta runs the operation and Haslam cheers him on and paves the way.   We don't need no stinking 4 yard runs.

Perhaps we haven't been giving Stef enough credit?!   He's been managing the game and running the team with both DePodesta and Haslam wanting to be coach.

ShitMyPantski is a vagina. He is resting and collecting a fat paycheck. 31 teams know he has nothing to do with the Browns and when he goes looking for a job all 31 teams will see.that his hands were tied by a jackoff.

ShitMyPantski won't be here for another contract.

[syd]

12 minutes ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

ShitMyPantski is a vagina. He is resting and collecting a fat paycheck. 31 teams know he has nothing to do with the Browns and when he goes looking for a job all 31 teams will see.that his hands were tied by a jackoff.

ShitMyPantski won't be here for another contract.

but he will be here next year,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,commas,,,,,,,,,,,,,just not sure which direction haslem will go to for another head coach ? he hasn't tried a collage coach yet

[Orion]

19 minutes ago, syd said:

just not sure which direction haslem will go to for another head coach ?

From what we've seen, he'll want someone who'll do it his way...DePodesta's way.  Haslam likes it that way.  So, that right there limits your pool.  We have a pretty smart, articulate coach that seems to be able to align with Berry and cope with the system.  He might be the best fit for the situation.  I don't know how much better a coach Haslam and DePo could land...but they could sure fuck it up

[syd]

1 minute ago, Orion said:

From what we've seen, he'll want someone who'll do it his way...DePodesta's way.  Haslam likes it that way.  So, that right there limits your pool.  We have a pretty smart, articulate coach that seems to be able to align with Berry and cope with the system.  He might be the best fit for the situation.  I don't know how much better a coach Haslam and DePo could land...but they could sure fuck it up

honestly it all depends on next year to see how they all work together,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well see 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, syd said:

honestly

...just finished watching (and loudly listening) to Heroes.  Bowie and his band were capable of such incredible greatness....