"The" 🏈 2023 NFL Draft: Saturday Day 3 🏈 Thread

[Unsympathetic]

I can't remember when Browns UDFA list was this targeted, but glad to see they're doing bottom-roster churn.  This is the totality of the list so far

RB Hassan Hall, Georgia Tech - $125,000 guaranteed

EDGE Lonnie Phelps, Kansas State
EDGE Mohamoud Diabate, Utah - $250,000 guaranteed
EDGE Jeremiah Martin, Washington
S Ronnie Hickman, Ohio State
S Charlie Thomas, Georgia Tech
CB Tanner McAllister, Ohio State
CB Amos Cormier, Georgia State
CB Caleb Biggers, Boise State

[ballpeen]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I would try him out at the position he played in college first, then go from there. 

I agree.  I think some think switching positions is as simple as telling a guy to "go play over there".

[Korsou Dawg]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

Are you sure it wasn't the other way around KD?  I like the Dawand Jones pick but nothing about him except the wing span says immediate impact.  That said, he's a RT.  McGuire looks like a better choice where we got him than how far we reached for Alex Wright last year.  McGuire looks like he can help us this year.

Quite sure. Example below from Walter football, but I have seen similar assessments.

Jones' freakish size is considered sufficient to make an immediate impact, and with coaching could develop into a Pro Bowl caliber starter.

McGuire is poopoo'd because of a limited pass rush arsenal. Is considered a run stopping, sub-package rotation guy.

 Cleveland Browns: Dawand Jones, OT, Ohio State - A+ Grade
The Colts brought in plenty of offensive linemen for top-30 visits, as they wanted depth and a successor for Jack Conklin. Dawand Jones is a massive offensive lineman who will blast open huge running lanes for Nick Chubb. He could have gone in the second round, so I love this value.

 

 Cleveland Browns: Isaiah McGuire, DE, Missouri - C+ Grade
The Browns needed to continue to bolster their defensive line, which was very weak last year outside of Myles Garrett. Isaiah McGuire is a powerful defensive lineman who could do well in Cleveland's rotation. I had him going later though.

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

 McGuire looks like a better choice where we got him than how far we reached for Alex Wright last year.

I'm still shaking my head about that reach. What did they see? Who saw it? And are they still scouting for the Browns?

And this year we give up #7 so the Ravens can take a 1st team AA OL whose MD says will make a full recovery from an ACL tear at the Combine. If the Ravens get into the playoffs or better, their #6 next year will not be all that far from our #7 this year. Who cares if the guy they got won't play too much this year. Long term he's a great pick in the 7th round. Just another Browns head shaker.

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

I can't remember when Browns UDFA list was this targeted, but glad to see they're doing bottom-roster churn.  This is the totality of the list so far

RB Hassan Hall, Georgia Tech - $125,000 guaranteed

EDGE Lonnie Phelps, Kansas State
EDGE Mohamoud Diabate, Utah - $250,000 guaranteed
EDGE Jeremiah Martin, Washington
S Ronnie Hickman, Ohio State
S Charlie Thomas, Georgia Tech
CB Tanner McAllister, Ohio State
CB Amos Cormier, Georgia State
CB Caleb Biggers, Boise State

Albany TE Thomas Greaney

[TexasAg1969]

Browns search for their 2024 6th rounder from the Ravens: 🤗

 

[gumby73]

19 hours ago, Orion said:

Picks 140 & 142 coming up for us.  Will we see BPA now?  Or more position targeting?

Logging this in here now, because (like myself) & many others.... assumed as..wtf's to head scratch-er of a Berry pick  🤔

 https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/picks/1/5/2023  Let's keep in mind.. drafts are combining the now's & the future needs.

Who's really on the board that fitted our needs & postings at the time? Most thought Linebacker or maybe Safety? agree? A combination of 9 LB/S went off the board, now known as.... could have.... I went JT 🎣 fishing after both picks were made ..   closing thought..

DTR might be Berry's only way of getting a QB onto the Practice Squad? (not being snatched off of, by another team) Mond & Dobbs needs to show their worth as a game day inactive or is that roster spot taken by another player?(more than likely)  Mond & Dobbs contracts are 2M or under (Dobbs 2M). Nothing to lose but to showcase both Dobbs & Mond to other teams this pre-season..   

thoughts? cause, I'm still not over Round 5 selections  

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

Logging this in here now, because (like myself) & many others.... assumed as..wtf's to head scratch-er of a Berry pick  🤔

 https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/picks/1/5/2023  Let's keep in mind.. drafts are combining the now's & the future needs.

Who's really on the board that fitted our needs & postings at the time? Most thought Linebacker or maybe Safety? agree? A combination of 9 LB/S went off the board, now known as.... could have.... I went JT 🎣 fishing after both picks were made ..   closing thought..

DTR might be Berry's only way of getting a QB onto the Practice Squad? (not being snatched off of, by another team) Mond & Dobbs needs to show their worth as a game day inactive or is that roster spot taken by another player?(more than likely)  Mond & Dobbs contracts are 2M or under (Dobbs 2M). Nothing to lose but to showcase both Dobbs & Mond to other teams this pre-season..   

thoughts? cause, I'm still not over it  

We satisfied most needs.  I feel good about our Our Oline.  We have a very competitive WR room 1-6 with varied skill sets.  We are all satisfied now with our Front 4 or at least should feel a lot better.  Our Top 3 picks offer instant contribution opportunities - DT and OT are going to be jumbo package 📦 installs on Day 1.  Might even pop into the rotation significantly.   Tillman will have opportunities as well…we didn’t have a first or second round pick so saying this is significant.

We could have added a back but Jerome Ford could be the guy now for an extended role.  And we didn’t trade Chubb.

DTR fits our QB room well.  I’m not sure how we showcase Dobbs and Mond.  The league knows what they are and moving either fetches nothing. 

I was vocal about our lousy LB play last year…I understand they were getting blown up at times by Centers and Guards but they left a lot to be desired when they had plays in front of them.  We are expecting Anthony Walker to play a full season - when the last two he’s played 16 of 34 games.  He’s steady not spectacular by any stretch but from all reports a leader on  the team.  The drop or fall off from Walker to next is significant. Id argue aside from Watson and Garrett.  Walker is a guy next in line that needs to play 17 games next year. 

[nickers]

18 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

We satisfied most needs.  I feel good about our Our Oline.  We have a very competitive WR room 1-6 with varied skill sets.  We are all satisfied now with our Front 4 or at least should feel a lot better.  Our Top 3 picks offer instant contribution opportunities are DT and OT are going to be jumbo package 📦 installs on Day 1.  Might even pop into the rotation significantly.   Tillman will have opportunities as well…we didn’t have a first or second round pick so saying this is significant.

We could have added a back but Jerome Ford could be the guy now for an extended role.  And we didn’t trade Chubb.

DTR fits our QB room well.  I’m not sure how we showcase Dobbs and Mond.  The league knows what they are and moving either fetches nothing. 

I was vocal about our lousy LB play last year…I understand they were getting blown up at times by Centers and Guards but they left a lot to be desired when they had plays in front of them.  We are expecting Anthony Walker to play a full season - when the last two he’s played 16 of 34 games.  He’s steady not spectacular by any stretch but from all reports a leader on  the team.  The drop or fall off from Walker to next is significant. Id argue aside from Watson and Garrett.  Walker is a guy next in line that needs to play 17 games next year. 

Head Coach and Owner are still the teams weakness..

 

I expect the same results as last year...

[gumby73]

54 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

1) DTR fits our QB room well.  I’m not sure how we showcase Dobbs and Mond.  The league knows what they are and moving either fetches nothing. 

2) We are expecting Anthony Walker to play a full season - when the last two he’s played 16 of 34 games.  He’s steady not spectacular by any stretch but from all reports a leader on  the team.  The drop or fall off from Walker to next is significant. Id argue aside from Watson and Garrett.  Walker is a guy next in line that needs to play 17 games next year. 

1) Well satisfied with picks including up to Dawand Jones..OL Luke Wypler was the steal of the 6th. Ok with McQuire, if the plan was to upgrade Wright & Thomas? McQuire looks to be the better hold your edge run stop option. I'm more, wait & see on DTR & Cam Mitchell. 

2) I had a front row seat in the Carolina opener & saw 1st hand that Walker was the leader of a highly questionable interior defense (not solely a Walker issue.. see GM/coaching) starting in warm-ups.. Walker played fast & really quite well that day... Then, we saw what the defense looked like without him.. 😕.. expecting AW to play a full season, after knee surgery? at this date & time. It looks like this FO is betting on it... stay tuned 

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Quite sure. Example below from Walter football, but I have seen similar assessments.

Jones' freakish size is considered sufficient to make an immediate impact, and with coaching could develop into a Pro Bowl caliber starter.

McGuire is poopoo'd because of a limited pass rush arsenal. Is considered a run stopping, sub-package rotation guy.

 Cleveland Browns: Dawand Jones, OT, Ohio State - A+ Grade
The Colts brought in plenty of offensive linemen for top-30 visits, as they wanted depth and a successor for Jack Conklin. Dawand Jones is a massive offensive lineman who will blast open huge running lanes for Nick Chubb. He could have gone in the second round, so I love this value.

 

 Cleveland Browns: Isaiah McGuire, DE, Missouri - C+ Grade
The Browns needed to continue to bolster their defensive line, which was very weak last year outside of Myles Garrett. Isaiah McGuire is a powerful defensive lineman who could do well in Cleveland's rotation. I had him going later though.

Both guys are day 3 draft picks so there's what they have in common. 

Regarding Jones:  After the Browns extended Conklin's contract this off-season they now have a successor.  Nothing about that assures me they expect Jones to be an immediate fulltime starter that wins the job in his vey 1st training camp - although I get the impression they want him ready the next time Conklin can't answer the bell with all his wear and tear.  The good news is Jones will have one of the best OL Coaches in the league if Conklin has to miss time again.  More good news is Conklin is pretty good RT to learn from as well.  He plays better hurt than a lot of healthy RTs; but that doesn't make for a long career. This is why I put Jones on my list of guys I'd like us to draft near the beginning of the Day 3 Draft thread. 

I like this pick a lot.  He's the kind of mid round pick I'm confident we can develop. In saying that, we still have to be a little reasonable with when he'll be ready to start full time.  Look no further than him needing to wait until his last 2 years as a Buckeye before he was ready to start fulltime. He has an enormous frame and one of the biggest wing spans of 89 inches.  That's terrific; but if the guy could move with those God-givens- the Buckeyes wouldn't have had to move Paris Johnson from RG to LT.  

Here's a Draft publication's summary of his weaknesses: "Movements are lumbering and awkward as a result of his size, Will struggle to match the quickness of speed rushers. Lacking in both hand and footspeed. Top heavy and it leads to some balance issues if/when he gets over-extended.  Struggles to recover once a defender gets outside of his frame. Right Tackle ONLY who won't present any position flexibility. Too often a tick late to recognize stunts and blitzers. Feet get crossed up when he has to cover a lot of ground. Stamina could be a concern."

You don't have to agree with me KD.  I'm just letting you know where I'm coming from as someone that ALWAYS welcomes Buckeyes to this team.  Jones is no different.  Once he's had some time under the influence of Callahan -  he'll be ready to step into his fate.  Who knows - that may not take as long as I think it will.  

In thinking McGuire will be ready/develop sooner - I'm going by the defense is usually ahead of offense early on every season and projecting that into this comparison.  I LOVED what I saw in the short little extract of highlights for McGuire. Let's be honest, if everyone stays healthy - who has an easier road to getting reps in the starting rotation 1st?  From what I read, McGuire also comes with position flexibility where I read he could kick inside, if needed.  Jones doesn't have a lot of position flexibility.  There's not many 6'8" OGs or Centers in this league so Jones doesn't offer the same position flexibility. Above all, McGuire is good at stopping the run and at making tackles for a loss - which are immediate needs the Browns are drafting him to help out with.  He looks ready to go IMO.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Flugel
senior moment

[Dutch Oven]

I know, on paper anyways, I feel better about the Browns DLine.

But it appears that the ship has pretty much sailed on the Browns ever getting a dynamic long-term DE partner for Myles. He's heading into his seventh season, and he doesn't strike me as someone who is going to have to have his uniform torn off him before he will retire. 

[Unsympathetic]

Mcguire link 1

Mcguire link 2

Reasons for optimism do exist.

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I'm still shaking my head about that reach. What did they see? Who saw it? And are they still scouting for the Browns?

And this year we give up #7 so the Ravens can take a 1st team AA OL whose MD says will make a full recovery from an ACL tear at the Combine. If the Ravens get into the playoffs or better, their #6 next year will not be all that far from our #7 this year. Who cares if the guy they got won't play too much this year. Long term he's a great pick in the 7th round. Just another Browns head shaker.

Might have been the same guy that influenced a 3rd round pick out of a 5th-6th round WR prospect because of a straight ahead 40 yard sprint out of a crouched down sprinter's stance.  Who knows Aggies?

To be honest, this year's draft made so much more sense to me in terms of where this team is at and what is/was missing.  

I don't have a problem with that Rat trade because of it being in the 7th round (where there isn't much difference in talent to that of the Undrafted FAs).  I know this was a little different due to the injury; but that gave a 6th round pick (while the guy they're getting won't be playing until next year anyway). I had a harder time watching all the talent Houston was getting while they received very little-no punishment for what went on with Watson when he was employed by Houston. 

[gumby73]

4 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Mcguire link 1

Mcguire link 2

Reasons for optimism do exist.

I'm in the middle of 2nd every snap game of MQ.. I can see the group thinking of Berry's guardrails & Schwartz coaching agreeing on this pick.. The smaller hand size & arm reach has me a little concerned reaching outside? But I'm not seeing anything on tape that shows those reach concerns.. The kids got some game.. And growth left.. I'm curious to see what playing weight Schwartz wants him into camp at...  

[Orion]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

thoughts? cause, I'm still not over Round 5 selections 

What?!  Two candidates for  'Bottom of roster or Practice Squad'  doesn't excite you?     

This was just after I asked if we would now start drafting BPA instead of Position Targeting.   And...do we now know the answer?   It certainly seems off script to us as many of us would've thought to target a LB'er or S.  Yet I don't know how many boards had those two as BPA...

[gumby73]

10 minutes ago, Orion said:

What?!  Two candidates for  'Bottom of roster or Practice Squad'  doesn't excite you?     

LMAO !! ( gO'd thank u  🤣 needed)

No! Not in the 5th round please... I now know what teams that drafted Kicker's & Punter's felt like 

 

off to another paid 60'th birthday lunch-in.. I'll get over it 

[SdBacker80]

Regarding Jones or any other T, they don’t have to be perfect we have an elusive guy that moves well in the pocket.  The fact that Jones possesses a massive wingspan to push DEs up and out of a play - all the better.  I don’t think you see him forced to action in an extended role this season anyway 
 

I guess we start with the question are we better off at this point than we were heading into training camp last year?  I believe so

[Flugel]

5 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Regarding Jones or any other T, they don’t have to be perfect we have an elusive guy that moves well in the pocket.  The fact that Jones possesses a massive wingspan to push DEs up and out of a play - all the better.  
 

I guess we start with the question are we better off at this point than we were heading into training camp last year?  I believe so

Hell yeah!   And the good thing about the Jones selection is he doesn't have to be starting week 1 for a team that just extended the contract of the current starter.  IMO, the only weakness we have at RT is wear and tear on the current starter and inexperience/development needed for Jones.  Couldn't be more pumped up about our OL right now - although we might have missed an opportunity in the late rounds to draft LT Ryan Hayes who went in round 7.  If Wills has trouble, we can line Jones up to the left of him as an extra blocker/eligible receiver (2nd TE).  This could be a great way to get him some experience while Conklin is still healthy.  

[nickers]

18 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Regarding Jones or any other T, they don’t have to be perfect we have an elusive guy that moves well in the pocket.  The fact that Jones possesses a massive wingspan to push DEs up and out of a play - all the better.  I don’t think you see him forced to action in an extended role this season anyway 
 

I guess we start with the question are we better off at this point than we were heading into training camp last year?  I believe so

I agree here... It's time for fatass wills to man up or GTFOOT

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I know, on paper anyways, I feel better about the Browns DLine.

But it appears that the ship has pretty much sailed on the Browns ever getting a dynamic long-term DE partner for Myles. He's heading into his seventh season, and he doesn't strike me as someone who is going to have to have his uniform torn off him before he will retire. 

Keep an eye out on that DE from Mizzou we drafted. I think he was undervalued. He may actually be better than the ones we have opposite Myles right now.

[Dutch Oven]

30 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Keep an eye out on that DE from Mizzou we drafted. I think he was undervalued. He may actually be better than the ones we have opposite Myles right now.

I'm not discounting the kid before he plays a down, hopefully he can become a solid rotational player on the DLine, or maybe even a starter down the road. 

But I always held out hope that sometime during Myle's prime the Browns would have targeted a top DE prospect to pair with him. Someone that other team's had to also account for, another pass-rushing terror.

[Orion]

3 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

are we better off at this point than we were heading into training camp last year?

I think FA has put us in a better position than last year.   The players added are kind of   Known Commodities'.   The 3rd round & beyond drafted guys & UDA's that never played a snap in the NFL...we'll have to wait and see if any of them can help us right out of the blocks.  

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm not discounting the kid before he plays a down, hopefully he can become a solid rotational player on the DLine, or maybe even a starter down the road. 

But I always held out hope that sometime during Myle's prime the Browns would have targeted a top DE prospect to pair with him. Someone that other team's had to also account for, another pass-rushing terror.

That was supposed to be Clowney.

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, Flugel said:

Regarding Jones:  After the Browns extended Conklin's contract this off-season they now have a successor.  Nothing about that assures me they expect Jones to be an immediate fulltime starter that wins the job in his vey 1st training camp - although I get the impression they want him ready the next time Conklin can't answer the bell with all his wear and tear.  The good news is Jones will have one of the best OL Coaches in the league if Conklin has to miss time again.  More good news is Conklin is pretty good RT to learn from as well.  He plays better hurt than a lot of healthy RTs; but that doesn't make for a long career. This is why I put Jones on my list of guys I'd like us to draft near the beginning of the Day 3 Draft thread. 

I love the Jones pick - he isn't a LT, but all Jones has to do, is go Lynn Swann and enroll in ballet classes, and retrain his feet and balance. His upside could be pretty high ! 🙂

[Dutch Oven]

40 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

That was supposed to be Clowney.

Clowney was an older veteran signed as a free agent hired gun.

I'm talking about investing a high draft pick on a DE to pair up with Myles drafts ago... Before the Watson three first rounders to Houston era. 

 

[Flugel]

23 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I love the Jones pick - he isn't a LT, but all Jones has to do, is go Lynn Swann and enroll in ballet classes, and retrain his feet and balance. His upside could be pretty high ! 🙂

I don't think we need to put him in pink leotards to expedite his development.   We have one of the best in the business coaching the OL. Aside from that, he being working with an NFL Strength and Conditioning Coach year round.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, Flugel said:

I don't think we need to put him in pink leotards to expedite his development.   We have one of the best in the business coaching the OL. Aside from that, he being working with an NFL Strength and Conditioning Coach year round.  

Getting him a little more slim and trim would probably help his mobility and longevity. 

Approaching 400lbs regardless of his height is no bueno.

That's Spanish for "homeboy needs to mix in a salad every once in a while".

[Korsou Dawg]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

Both guys are day 3 draft picks so there's what they have in common. 

Regarding Jones:  After the Browns extended Conklin's contract this off-season they now have a successor.  Nothing about that assures me they expect Jones to be an immediate fulltime starter that wins the job in his vey 1st training camp - although I get the impression they want him ready the next time Conklin can't answer the bell with all his wear and tear.  The good news is Jones will have one of the best OL Coaches in the league if Conklin has to miss time again.  More good news is Conklin is pretty good RT to learn from as well.  He plays better hurt than a lot of healthy RTs; but that doesn't make for a long career. This is why I put Jones on my list of guys I'd like us to draft near the beginning of the Day 3 Draft thread. 

I like this pick a lot.  He's the kind of mid round pick I'm confident we can develop. In saying that, we still have to be a little reasonable with when he'll be ready to start full time.  Look no further than him needing to wait until his last 2 years as a Buckeye before he was ready to start fulltime. He has an enormous frame and one of the biggest wing spans of 89 inches.  That's terrific; but if the guy could move with those God-givens- the Buckeyes wouldn't have had to move Paris Johnson from RG to LT.  

Here's a Draft publication's summary of his weaknesses: "Movements are lumbering and awkward as a result of his size, Will struggle to match the quickness of speed rushers. Lacking in both hand and footspeed. Top heavy and it leads to some balance issues if/when he gets over-extended.  Struggles to recover once a defender gets outside of his frame. Right Tackle ONLY who won't present any position flexibility. Too often a tick late to recognize stunts and blitzers. Feet get crossed up when he has to cover a lot of ground. Stamina could be a concern."

You don't have to agree with me KD.  I'm just letting you know where I'm coming from as someone that ALWAYS welcomes Buckeyes to this team.  Jones is no different.  Once he's had some time under the influence of Callahan -  he'll be ready to step into his fate.  Who knows - that may not take as long as I think it will.  

In thinking McGuire will be ready/develop sooner - I'm going by the defense is usually ahead of offense early on every season and projecting that into this comparison.  I LOVED what I saw in the short little extract of highlights for McGuire. Let's be honest, if everyone stays healthy - who has an easier road to getting reps in the starting rotation 1st?  From what I read, McGuire also comes with position flexibility where I read he could kick inside, if needed.  Jones doesn't have a lot of position flexibility.  There's not many 6'8" OGs or Centers in this league so Jones doesn't offer the same position flexibility. Above all, McGuire is good at stopping the run and at making tackles for a loss - which are immediate needs the Browns are drafting him to help out with.  He looks ready to go IMO.

Appreciate the effort put into your reply. It is not a matter of agreeing or not. Just sharing what I read on different sites. Hadn't heard of Jones before he was drafted, and only came across McGuire a couple of times doing mocks. Have no founded opinion about either. 

And even if I had an opinion, it wouldn't matter much. I'm the Board's pet Dutchman. When you guys talk about pad level, the first thing that comes to mind is the classification system on the packaging of female hygiene products I need to mind for the Mrs when it is my turn to do the groceries. What the heck do I know?!

[Flugel]

7 minutes ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Appreciate the effort put into your reply. It is not a matter of agreeing or not. Just sharing what I read on different sites. Hadn't heard of Jones before he was drafted, and only came across McGuire a couple of times doing mocks. Have no founded opinion about either. 

And even if I had an opinion, it wouldn't matter much. I'm the Board's pet Dutchman. When you guys talk about pad level, the first thing that comes to mind is the classification system on the packaging of female hygiene products I need to mind for the Mrs when it is my turn to do the groceries. What the heck do I know?!

😆 Thanks KD!  It turned out to be a good discussion instead of who won an argument.  Don't sell yourself short - you contribute a lot of stuff I enjoy reading in here.  We had a lot of fun talking about the possibility of adding a great throwback, dual purpose Tight End - Darnell Washington before the enemy drafted him.  That one hurt!   

All that matters in here is if you like football and the Browns.