Cedric Tillman

[Orion]

And so, this is our #1 pick.  (#74)  -  Finally got a big, strong WR.  (but I'm still pulling for Weston to be good) 

HEIGHT: 6'3"   WEIGHT: 213    HAND: 10"    ARM: 32 3/4"    40-YARD DASH: 4.54   VERTICAL: 37"     BROAD: 10'8"

POSITIVES

— Very good size. Thick, muscled-up frame.

— Very good stop/start explosiveness.

— Above-average speed. Not a true burner but enough to threaten vertically.

— Very good ball skills and ability to catch in traffic.

— Good YAC skills. Quality blend of size, burst and strength.

— Great blocker. Active, physical, and strong.

NEGATIVES

— Limited route tree at Tennessee. Aligned only on right side and ran few routes.

— Hard to get a gauge on how he feels out zone coverage and operates from the slot because of how Tennessee used him.

— Can struggle with focus drops on routine plays.

 

2022 STATISTICS    — 6 GMS, 37 RECS, 417 YDS (11.3 AVG), 3 TD

NOTES   — DOB: April 19, 2000   — 3-star recruit in 2018   — Two-year starter, 21 career starts

— 2022: Missed four games with an ankle injury, also missed final game vs Vanderbilt with undisclosed lower-body injury

OVERALL

Cedric Tillman has every trait necessary to be a true X receiver, it's just a matter of gauging his health and how he will transition from Tennessee's offense.

Tillman has a classic X receiver build at 6'3" and 215 pounds. He plays to the archetype, too. Though not a true field-tilter, Tillman plays with good speed for his size. He excels on go routes, post routes, dig routes and comeback routes, all routes that either go vertical or threaten the vertical stem before snapping off. Tillman also excels on those routes because they are true 1-on-1 outside routes, which make use of his snappy stop/start explosiveness, crisp feet and effortless hips. Tillman has exhibited all the route-running tools you could ask for, just on a limited route tree thus far.

Tillman is also as tough and physical as he looks. As a pass-catcher, Tillman does well to play in traffic and catch with bodies around him. His ball location is excellent, and he understands very well how to put himself in position to get to the ball first. When combined with his strong hands and frame to absorb contact, Tillman's catch-point ability is a plus. Additionally, Tillman is a nasty blocker. He has zero reservations about going into attack mode as a blocker, and he's got the size/strength to capitalize.

The uncertainty with Tillman comes mostly from the Tennessee offense. Tennessee's offense uses the wide college splits in a way the NFL can not. On top of that, Tillman played almost exclusively as the right outside WR, and his route tree was mostly limited to go balls, posts, dig routes, slants and stop routes at various depths. He didn't really get to explore a route tree that attacks across the field, underneath, or from the slot. Tillman also has some occasional problems with dropping the routine throws, but considering his strong hands elsewhere, that should be something that can be cleaned up.

It's really just about how long Tillman's transition to a real offense takes. Tillman has the size, athletic traits, route-running baseline and hand-eye coordination to be a reliable outside WR in the NFL. 

 

 

 

[syd]

are next #1 ? could be, coopers contract run's out next year

[Orion]

21 minutes ago, syd said:

are next #1 ? could be, coopers contract run's out next year

A leap of faith at this point.  I think his Browns playbook is going to be quite a different thing than he's used to.  And I hope he's healed up from last year.  He's got some question marks but he sure looks good gettin' off the bus.

[syd]

2 minutes ago, Orion said:

A leap of faith at this point.  I think his Browns playbook is going to be quite a different thing than he's used to.  And I hope he's healed up from last year.  He's got some question marks but he sure looks good gettin' off the bus.

well you know me man,I still have alot of faith in Bell also

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, Orion said:

And so, this is our #1 pick.  (#74)  -  Finally got a big, strong WR.  (but I'm still pulling for Weston to be good) 

HEIGHT: 6'3"   WEIGHT: 213    HAND: 10"    ARM: 32 3/4"    40-YARD DASH: 4.54   VERTICAL: 37"     BROAD: 10'8"

POSITIVES

— Very good size. Thick, muscled-up frame.

— Very good stop/start explosiveness.

— Above-average speed. Not a true burner but enough to threaten vertically.

— Very good ball skills and ability to catch in traffic.

— Good YAC skills. Quality blend of size, burst and strength.

— Great blocker. Active, physical, and strong.

NEGATIVES

— Limited route tree at Tennessee. Aligned only on right side and ran few routes.

— Hard to get a gauge on how he feels out zone coverage and operates from the slot because of how Tennessee used him.

— Can struggle with focus drops on routine plays.

 

2022 STATISTICS    — 6 GMS, 37 RECS, 417 YDS (11.3 AVG), 3 TD

NOTES   — DOB: April 19, 2000   — 3-star recruit in 2018   — Two-year starter, 21 career starts

— 2022: Missed four games with an ankle injury, also missed final game vs Vanderbilt with undisclosed lower-body injury

OVERALL

Cedric Tillman has every trait necessary to be a true X receiver, it's just a matter of gauging his health and how he will transition from Tennessee's offense.

Tillman has a classic X receiver build at 6'3" and 215 pounds. He plays to the archetype, too. Though not a true field-tilter, Tillman plays with good speed for his size. He excels on go routes, post routes, dig routes and comeback routes, all routes that either go vertical or threaten the vertical stem before snapping off. Tillman also excels on those routes because they are true 1-on-1 outside routes, which make use of his snappy stop/start explosiveness, crisp feet and effortless hips. Tillman has exhibited all the route-running tools you could ask for, just on a limited route tree thus far.

Tillman is also as tough and physical as he looks. As a pass-catcher, Tillman does well to play in traffic and catch with bodies around him. His ball location is excellent, and he understands very well how to put himself in position to get to the ball first. When combined with his strong hands and frame to absorb contact, Tillman's catch-point ability is a plus. Additionally, Tillman is a nasty blocker. He has zero reservations about going into attack mode as a blocker, and he's got the size/strength to capitalize.

The uncertainty with Tillman comes mostly from the Tennessee offense. Tennessee's offense uses the wide college splits in a way the NFL can not. On top of that, Tillman played almost exclusively as the right outside WR, and his route tree was mostly limited to go balls, posts, dig routes, slants and stop routes at various depths. He didn't really get to explore a route tree that attacks across the field, underneath, or from the slot. Tillman also has some occasional problems with dropping the routine throws, but considering his strong hands elsewhere, that should be something that can be cleaned up.

It's really just about how long Tillman's transition to a real offense takes. Tillman has the size, athletic traits, route-running baseline and hand-eye coordination to be a reliable outside WR in the NFL. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the goodies!   I like that he catches the ball well in traffic. This may only be my opinion; but when I read a weakness was the limited route tree at UT - I have to say Stefanski's route tree looked just as limited.  There was 1 game where the commentator did a freeze frame where we had 4 receivers run straight ahead, parallel to each other and stop at the same distance downfield with the DBs ecstatic and relaxed.  It's a vertical pass game that makes life easier on the defense than our receivers IMO.    Also, when we run a WR down the sideline where the sideline (out of bounds) has the outside of our WRs well covered and the DB only has to cover his inside so that only a perfect throw can get completed - we didn't complete many of these at all.  Even the slant routes are more straight ahead diagonal - than a sharp cut dusting the corner .  There's very little horizontal/change of direction challenges to the defense.  A guy like Jerry Rice and many others could get ideal separation on the sharp change of direction routes like your old fashion square ins and square outs or even some dig routes today.  Webster Slaughter was great at change of direction, which either helped him or cleared out space for other receivers.  Lindy Infante loved spreading defenses horizontally so that guys like RB Herman Fontenot and WR Brian Brennan were always open over the middle or in the hook zones or grey area between the flats and hook zones.  Fontenot had 47 receptions almost exclusively on 3rd downs while Brennan had 55 receptions.  Also, Infante used to have some routes that set-up other routes as the game went on.  I'm starting to see why a guy like Diggs couldn't wait to get out of Minnesota.  

I'm hoping that Musgrave, Van Pelt and Stefanski work together change the route tree to offer a little east-west challenge to set-up/open-up the vertical seams.  Hopefully somebody has also contacted Dabo Swinney about routes Watson experienced great success throwing to.  

I love Tillman's frame.  I always wanted 1 tall WR target like this.  Josh Gordon was a tease.  Long before him, the Browns had tremendous success throwing to the 6'4" Gary Collins and about a decade or so later, the 6'5" Dave Logan came along and added some big plays and passing game mismatches.  I get the feeling Tillman can provide this for us.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Flugel

[gumby73]

It's like I'm watching WR Alshon Jeffery tape coming out of S. Carolina again..🧐 drafted 2nd round by Eagles 10 years ago..   

from link..

Tillman played almost exclusively as the right outside WR, and his route tree was mostly limited to go balls, posts, dig routes, slants and stop routes at various depths.(*than he has a route tree, limited by offense ran*)

He didn't really get to explore a route tree that attacks across the field, underneath, or from the slot.

Tillman did no shuttles at combine or pro day.. but his pro day 3 cone was not shaky quick ^^^ to play slot

 

NFL COMBINE WORKOUT STATS: CEDRIC TILLMAN

FORTY YARD DASH   4.54 SECS VERTICAL JUMP   37.00 " BROAD JUMP   128"

 

PRO-DAY WORKOUT STATS: CEDRIC TILLMAN

FORTY YARD DASH   4.58 SECS VERTICAL JUMP   36.50 " THREE CONE   7.32 SECS *****

 

Pro coaching can't hurt what this kid already has in his tool box... Tillman's craft fits well in this WR room

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

 I like that he catches the ball well in traffic. 

...which is like Peoples-Jones does.  It's so important in the NFL because the throwing windows are so small...and the DB's are so good.  

It's also important that he's a willing and physical blocker.  We WILL be wanting to run the ball and it's nice to know that the receiver can actually help in that regard.

[ballpeen]

His hands, body type, and the way he plays reminds me of Terrell Owens.  Owen might have been a bit heavier and was faster..

 

What reminds me of Owens is Tillmans ability to use his body box out corners.  If he can keep doing that, any perceived lack of speed is going to be mitigated.  That may explain his seemingly low YAC

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, gumby73 said:

It's like I'm watching WR Alshon Jeffery tape coming out of S. Carolina again..🧐 drafted 2nd round by Eagles 10 years ago..   

from link..

Tillman played almost exclusively as the right outside WR, and his route tree was mostly limited to go balls, posts, dig routes, slants and stop routes at various depths.(*than he has a route tree, limited by offense ran*)

He didn't really get to explore a route tree that attacks across the field, underneath, or from the slot.

Tillman did no shuttles at combine or pro day.. but his pro day 3 cone was not shaky quick ^^^ to play slot

 

NFL COMBINE WORKOUT STATS: CEDRIC TILLMAN

FORTY YARD DASH   4.54 SECS VERTICAL JUMP   37.00 " BROAD JUMP   128"

 

PRO-DAY WORKOUT STATS: CEDRIC TILLMAN

FORTY YARD DASH   4.58 SECS VERTICAL JUMP   36.50 " THREE CONE   7.32 SECS *****

 

Pro coaching can't hurt what this kid already has in his tool box... Tillman's craft fits well in this WR room

From what I remember, the only difference between the 2 was Jeffrey ran a disappointing 40 that surprised a lot of people.  That didn't stop him from being a good NFL receiver though.

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

From what I remember, the only difference between the 2 was Jeffrey ran a disappointing 40 that surprised a lot of people.  That didn't stop him from being a good NFL receiver though.

Nor Brian Brennan and wasn't anywhere near being fast.. But man did he ever get open...

[ballpeen]

As we have seen with Schwartz and numerous other receivers...Ross in Cincy come to mind, Speed doesn't make a good receivers.  It's more the icing on the cake.

[nickers]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

As we have seen with Schwartz and numerous other receivers...Ross in Cincy come to mind, Speed doesn't make a good receivers.  It's more the icing on the cake.

For me it's.. You can catch.. Or you can't... Everything else is miscelleneous... I don't think Jerry Rice was considered a burner either if I recall.. Not slow but not blazing fast either.. Now maybe I'm wrong on this but for me.. the first step is always the most important as far as getting off the LOS and dominating the rout as it were.. A lot of it I think too depends on the QB... Some guys are fixated on the hot rout and that too can lead to trouble... So many variables to account for in a 3-4 second play...

[Bob806]

15 hours ago, Flugel said:

Thanks for the goodies!   I like that he catches the ball well in traffic. This may only be my opinion; but when I read a weakness was the limited route tree at UT - I have to say Stefanski's route tree looked just as limited.  There was 1 game where the commentator did a freeze frame where we had 4 receivers run straight ahead, parallel to each other and stop at the same distance downfield with the DBs ecstatic and relaxed.  It's a vertical pass game that makes life easier on the defense than our receivers IMO.    Also, when we run a WR down the sideline where the sideline (out of bounds) has the outside of our WRs well covered and the DB only has to cover his inside so that only a perfect throw can get completed - we didn't complete many of these at all.  Even the slant routes are more straight ahead diagonal - than a sharp cut dusting the corner .  There's very little horizontal/change of direction challenges to the defense.  A guy like Jerry Rice and many others could get ideal separation on the sharp change of direction routes like your old fashion square ins and square outs or even some dig routes today.  Webster Slaughter was great at change of direction, which either helped him or cleared out space for other receivers.  Lindy Infante loved spreading defenses horizontally so that guys like RB Herman Fontenot and WR Brian Brennan were always open over the middle or in the hook zones or grey area between the flats and hook zones.  Fontenot had 47 receptions almost exclusively on 3rd downs while Brennan had 55 receptions.  Also, Infante used to have some routes that set-up other routes as the game went on.  I'm starting to see why a guy like Diggs couldn't wait to get out of Minnesota.  

I'm hoping that Musgrave, Van Pelt and Stefanski work together change the route tree to offer a little east-west challenge to set-up/open-up the vertical seams.  Hopefully somebody has also contacted Dabo Swinney about routes Watson experienced great success throwing to.  

I love Tillman's frame.  I always wanted 1 tall WR target like this.  Josh Gordon was a tease.  Long before him, the Browns had tremendous success throwing to the 6'4" Gary Collins and about a decade or so later, the 6'5" Dave Logan came along and added some big plays and passing game mismatches.  I get the feeling Tillman can provide this for us.

Nice....can I add that they need to find Lindy Infante's playbook? 🤣

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Nice....can I add that they need to find Lindy Infante's playbook? 🤣

Absolutely Bob! 

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

As we have seen with Schwartz and numerous other receivers...Ross in Cincy come to mind, Speed doesn't make a good receivers.  It's more the icing on the cake.

Good point! Not only that, speed isn't the only thing that gets guys open.  Change of direction and a scheme utilizes/clears out space in a field that is 53 yards wide.  

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

For me it's.. You can catch.. Or you can't... Everything else is miscelleneous... I don't think Jerry Rice was considered a burner either if I recall.. Not slow but not blazing fast either.. Now maybe I'm wrong on this but for me.. the first step is always the most important as far as getting off the LOS and dominating the rout as it were.. A lot of it I think too depends on the QB... Some guys are fixated on the hot rout and that too can lead to trouble... So many variables to account for in a 3-4 second play...

Per my last reply above, Brian Brennan was very quick and great at change of direction.  That worked well with Infante utilizing as much as the 53 yard width of field as possible.  Webster Slaughter was the deep threat that helped open up the underneath stuff.  Fun offensive football to watch in the 80s.

[nickers]

10 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Per my last reply above, Brian Brennan was very quick and great at change of direction.  That worked well with Infante utilizing as much as the 53 yard width of field as possible.  Webster Slaughter was the deep threat that helped open up the underneath stuff.  Fun offensive football to watch in the 80s.

Yeah Brennan.. Like Anthony Carter had that rare gift of pivot and catch.. I'm gonna use AC as an example here because he was great at running 10-15 yard routes and he would stop on a dime.. Pivot and catch first downs... Those are the kinds of chain movers you want on your team.. Win the Route... You win the play/game...

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, nickers said:

For me it's.. You can catch.. Or you can't... Everything else is miscelleneous... I don't think Jerry Rice was considered a burner either if I recall.. Not slow but not blazing fast either.. Now maybe I'm wrong on this but for me.. the first step is always the most important as far as getting off the LOS and dominating the rout as it were.. A lot of it I think too depends on the QB... Some guys are fixated on the hot rout and that too can lead to trouble... So many variables to account for in a 3-4 second play...

Jerry Rice used to catch many throws after every practice. he worked hard as anyone could - to better his ability to catch every ball thrown to him. His work ethic resulted in him becoming one of the greatest wrs to ever play the game.  Probably the greatest.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/jerry-rice-unmatched-work-ethic-led-to-unmatched-production-in-hall-of-fame-career

Don't ignore those players who want to be the best - like the Browns have done for so many drafts:

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/jerry-rice-recalls-worries-nfl-draft-49ers

Jerry Rice recalls NFL Draft worries: 'I never thought I was going to get drafted'

 

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

Interesting thing about Jerry Rice is that he actually struggled to catch the ball as a rookie so much that he was nearly benched at one point. (He lost his starting job but still played a decent amount. At one point in the season, he had 26 receptions but 10 dropped passes) According to him, he started wearing gloves covered in Stickem, which had been outlawed by then. 

He worked hard, eventually ditched the gloves (and I'm guessing the Stickem) and became the arguably the best WR of all-time when he retired.

 

[Orion]

12 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Jerry Rice recalls

I recall, upon our return and drafting of Couch & Kevin Johnson, Jerry Rice asked KJ to come out and work out with him.  And KJ said that he didn't need Rice's assistance.  And I thought to myself, Really?  There's nothing you could learn from one of the best WR's ever?  -  Some years later he caught a 1st down pass...and then rolled backwards several yards so he wouldn't get hit...but the idiot had given back the 1st down and we had to punt.  Butch Davis benched him for the rest of the game and then traded him.

[nickers]

12 minutes ago, Orion said:

I recall, upon our return and drafting of Couch & Kevin Johnson, Jerry Rice asked KJ to come out and work out with him.  And KJ said that he didn't need Rice's assistance.  And I thought to myself, Really?  There's nothing you could learn from one of the best WR's ever?  -  Some years later he caught a 1st down pass...and then rolled backwards several yards so he wouldn't get hit...but the idiot had given back the 1st down and we had to punt.  Butch Davis benched him for the rest of the game and then traded him.

KJ was a sissy and a quitter..

[Dutch Oven]

25 minutes ago, Orion said:

I recall, upon our return and drafting of Couch & Kevin Johnson, Jerry Rice asked KJ to come out and work out with him.  And KJ said that he didn't need Rice's assistance.  And I thought to myself, Really?  There's nothing you could learn from one of the best WR's ever?  -  Some years later he caught a 1st down pass...and then rolled backwards several yards so he wouldn't get hit...but the idiot had given back the 1st down and we had to punt.  Butch Davis benched him for the rest of the game and then traded him.

Funny, what I remember of Kevin Johnson was Tim Couch constantly throwing behind him on slants, to the point I jokingly would call it our:

3rd and 7 Slant Thrown Behind Kevin Johnson by Tim Couch Reception For Four Yards Play. 😁

Edit: Wow, you really jogged my memory. I had forgotten about Davis cutting KJ, but I remember going to the next game and fans were all over Butch Davis, but somehow the Browns pulled an ass-kicking of the Cardinals out of their ass. Annihilated them, then if I recall (I'm going to have to look this up) they might have lost the rest of their games and Davis would literally quit his job during the season and walk away. Was there some other weird rumors around why KJ got released? My memory is really foggy, but for some reason a story about KJ sleeping with WIlliam Green's wife/girlfriend and someone getting stabbed seems like it happened? Wow, this feels like it happend a lifetime ago. 

[Orion]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Funny, what I remember of Kevin Johnson was

Do you remember the play that I referenced?  I remember it very well.  I was like, WTF did that pussy just do?!

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

Do you remember the play that I referenced?  I remember it very well.  I was like, WTF did that pussy just do?!

I kind of do? 

The Butch Davis era feels like it was 100 years ago. 

[Kvoethe]

Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

[nickers]

38 minutes ago, Kvoethe said:

Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

No I think Lawyer has a Jr. for a Son I thought I read somewhere recently...

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Kvoethe said:

Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

I checked for that on draft day.  His dad is Cedric.  

“Honestly since he was like nine," Tillman Sr. said with a laugh. "You know he said, 'Dad I’m going to go to the NFL. I’m going to have a big house with a pool and a slide in it.' So I’m like, 'Whoa, okay, interesting.'”

Tillman’s dad knows a thing or two about the NFL. He played four seasons in the league also as a wide receiver. As his son grew bigger and bigger, Tillman Sr. knew his son had the ability.

[Flugel]

19 hours ago, Orion said:

I checked for that on draft day.  His dad is Cedric.  

“Honestly since he was like nine," Tillman Sr. said with a laugh. "You know he said, 'Dad I’m going to go to the NFL. I’m going to have a big house with a pool and a slide in it.' So I’m like, 'Whoa, okay, interesting.'”

Tillman’s dad knows a thing or two about the NFL. He played four seasons in the league also as a wide receiver. As his son grew bigger and bigger, Tillman Sr. knew his son had the ability.

While Jalin Hyatt got all the hype - I think Tillman is going to be a better pro.  Try to picture a Josh Gordon that likes football more than marijuana; and that's how I see Cedric Tillman.  We got a tall WR that actually likes football and he's good at it too!  

I may be old. I may be tired. But that doesn't mean I'm uninspired.   

[Unsympathetic]

PFF draft analysis today included their comment that Tillman's ability to decelerate is elite

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

While Jalin Hyatt got all the hype - I think Tillman is going to be a better pro.  Try to picture a Josh Gordon that likes football more than marijuana; and that's how I see Cedric Tillman.  We got a tall WR that actually likes football and he's good at it too!  

I may be old. I may be tired. But that doesn't mean I'm uninspired.   

I actually like Hyatt more... He's smooth.. He reminds me of Olave.. Super smooth route runner with good hands..... It'll be interesting to see how their careers shake out...