Juan Thornhill talks about negativity from the press and fan's in Cleveland

[nickers]

7 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Yeah the LeBron James led Cleveland Cavs NBA Championship was kind of sweet.

Shows where the 2023 Cleveland BROWNS might be right now,  they have most of the pieces of pieces right there headed in the right direction. 

That would be kind of epic right there ...... right now,  2023 or 2024 ready to win it all.   Stay locked and loaded right now there Neo,  There might be a big ....BOOM.... coming from Cleveland real soon,  i thought that it might be from the Guardians  too.

Just kind of that feeling brewing from Tito Francona too.

                    Tick, tick, tick. ⚾ or 🏈 . Maybe even  some 🏀

                                                   🔥🔥🔥

Tito.. God love him and all the virtuosity and experience he brings.. HOFer en route... But at some point.. There comes a time you need a different voice... Maybe that time is now.. Who knows...I don't follow this team anymore... Call it apathy... whatever...

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

oh, shut up you ignorant, infantile, dishonest prick.  you are too stupid to comment on anything. I keep the two SEPARATE. The Browns did NOT have ONLY TWO CHOICES to make. The sick trade was OPTIONAL. Grow up and go over there and we can explain the difference.

Aggies served our country like you did and he's fun to talk football with in here.   I don't see him in any heated disagreements in here. You guys used to get a long pretty good on the football board from what I remember.   Let's get back to the football stuff in here and if we say something stupid - bust balls when/wherever applicable. 

Speaking of which, I actually think this offseason and the draft overall was way better than many years where we had 2 1st round picks and good money to spend in free agency.  This year, I think we overcame the loss of the 1st and 2nd round picks.  There's only 1 more draft left without a 1st round pick, which hasn't always been our best pick in the draft anyway.

 

[Westside Steve]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:43 PM, Flugel said:

While all the writers are on strike, watching Trump take on the guy that's having panic attacks over who Disney is hiring to wear Peter Pan and Tinkerbell costumes at minimum wage is gonna be real entertaining....

Maybe I'm missing something maybe a post is missing what the fuck does this have to do with Thornhill? Is he controversial on some way?

WSS

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Maybe I'm missing something maybe a post is missing what the fuck does this have to do with Thornhill? Is he controversial on some way?

WSS

That was written about 1 month ago on 5/24/23.  All the same, my bad.

[Orion]

On 5/24/2023 at 4:50 PM, calfoxwc said:

I won't watch the dirtbag qb, but after thinking about it, I'll only watch the defense play. Refusing to watch the huckster qb from Houston, I'll change channels while that qb takes the field.

Umm...you do understand that Jim Brown used to beat women...right?  I don't think that Watson has done anything like that.  I'm not condoning Watson's massage parlor behavior.....I'm just sayin'...

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Umm...you do understand that Jim Brown used to beat women...right?  I don't think that Watson has done anything like that.  I'm not condoning Watson's massage parlor behavior.....I'm just sayin'...

The irony of some of the people on this board (and I think we know what "some of the people on this board" means) tripping all over themselves to sing the praises of Jim Brown when he died was not lost on me. 

He was possibly the greatest NFL player, ever, and I respected the hell out of his work in civil rights and working with at-risk youth, etc. 

But the guy was a trainwreck when it came to women. 

[Orion]

5 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

The irony of some of the people on this board (and I think we know what "some of the people on this board" means) tripping all over themselves to sing the praises of Jim Brown when he died was not lost on me. 

He was possibly the greatest NFL player, ever, and I respected the hell out of his work in civil rights and working with at-risk youth, etc. 

But the guy was a trainwreck when it came to women. 

Jim was a double edged sword.  Women 'falling' from his balcony...I think it was 5 times the police were called about him and women...but the only time he spent in jail was for beating up his golf partner. (male)  -  You wanna talk, Pressure Putt.    But as you mentioned he did really good things for good causes.  And to a degree it was the same on the football field.  The greatest RB ever....but he didn't feel that he should block and put only minimal effort into it.  (which in later years he stated that he regretted that)

Back in his playing days, the media was not like it is today.  His poor behavior was not blabbed all over the national scene.  Back then they actually kind of suppressed that kind of thing.  And, of course, it was common knowledge that many that played the pro game were quite rough around the edges.  Back then the NFL didn't really care what the women of the country thought about football.  Today, the league wants the woman's auxiliary buying NFL merchandise (follow the money).  In Jim Brown's day...nobody would've batted an eyelash at what Watson did.  It's just one more reason why you can't compare the players/game from one era to another.  The rules of the game have become more humane...because of the advances in the medical technology field AND because the media is in EVERYONE's face, all the time, and they'll report anything and everything.  So the NFL can't be giving players smelling salts and sending them back into the game anymore.  You can't crack-back block.  You can't lay out a defensive receiver.  You can't breathe on the QB.  It's a different world now...and it's all driven by technology (knowing more) and the media (telling more)...which affects the almighty dollar.  

Jim Brown playing in this day and age would have to be a good boy off the field (do we think he could've ???)...and on the field he would see that the players are in better condition, and they're bigger & faster.  He wouldn't be as much of a 'man among boys'.  -  All that said, he was the last tangible link to the true glory days of the Browns.  And we are not as steeped in tradition as when he was with us.  We can no longer point to a luxury box and show everyone our glory days in that tangible way.

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

Jim was a double edged sword.  Women 'falling' from his balcony...I think it was 5 times the police were called about him and women...but the only time he spent in jail was for beating up his golf partner. (male)  -  You wanna talk, Pressure Putt.    But as you mentioned he did really good things for good causes.  And to a degree it was the same on the football field.  The greatest RB ever....but he didn't feel that he should block and put only minimal effort into it.  (which in later years he stated that he regretted that)

Back in his playing days, the media was not like it is today.  His poor behavior was not blabbed all over the national scene.  Back then they actually kind of suppressed that kind of thing.  And, of course, it was common knowledge that many that played the pro game were quite rough around the edges.  Back then the NFL didn't really care what the women of the country thought about football.  Today, the league wants the woman's auxiliary buying NFL merchandise (follow the money).  In Jim Brown's day...nobody would've batted an eyelash at what Watson did.  It's just one more reason why you can't compare the players/game from one era to another.  The rules of the game have become more humane...because of the advances in the medical technology field AND because the media is in EVERYONE's face, all the time, and they'll report anything and everything.  So the NFL can't be giving players smelling salts and sending them back into the game anymore.  You can't crack-back block.  You can't lay out a defensive receiver.  You can't breathe on the QB.  It's a different world now...and it's all driven by technology (knowing more) and the media (telling more)...which affects the almighty dollar.  

Jim Brown playing in this day and age would have to be a good boy off the field (do we think he could've ???)...and on the field he would see that the players are in better condition, and they're bigger & faster.  He wouldn't be as much of a 'man among boys'.  -  All that said, he was the last tangible link to the true glory days of the Browns.  And we are not as steeped in tradition as when he was with us.  We can no longer point to a luxury box and show everyone our glory days in that tangible way.

WOW!  Thank you!   I'm from Upstate NY between Buffalo and Syracuse.  Back in the day, Syracuse had RBs like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Larry Csonka (a little later on). I always call Jim Brown a RB because at least 50% of a FB's job is to block people; but Jim Brown wasn't put on this earth to block people.  He was created to be a human bulldozer that carried the football before doing bedroom gymnastics with Raquel Welch in the movies. Lucky bastard!

Anyway, when the 59 Syracuse football program won their ONLY football national championship against Texas at the Cotton Bowl in Texas - Ernie Davis felt much of the very same hostility that Jackie Robinson did in MLB.  That was a kid from a quiet town of Elmira in upstate NY. If you ever get a chance to watch the movie about him called "The Express" it shows you some of what I'm talking about. Jim Brown played at Syracuse even before Ernie Davis did so the LAST thing he should have been doing was beating up girls on campus. That college balcony story is no joke - that's not a nice kid; and unfortunately that type of aggression toward women didn't change after college and/or pro football.  Jim Brown was actually raised by his great grandmother on Long Island (Manhasset,NY) because his grandmother was an alcoholic and his father left him when he was 2 weeks old.  A LOT of us grew up with WAY more hope than that so Jim's athletic talent attracted interest of wealthy people.  There was a very wealthy white family that helped his great grandmother raise him that had connections as far as Syracuse University.  That also helped him when he got into trouble at Syracuse.

Not to get too far off topic, but can you imagine what type of racial hatred FB Marion Motley had to endure when he played for the Browns from 1946-1953?  That's long before Jim Brown and Ernie Davis even went to Syracuse.

This doesn't undo how Jim Brown treated ladies; BUT he did find a way to help change a lot of lives for the better working with gang members.  I saw a special about the work he did. He saved a lot of lives and got some of those kids employment opportunities to the extent their were promoted into management positions.  Production Americans that were previously born into hopelessness in gang turf neighborhoods.  I shared the story of an All State Hoops and Football as a sophomore in high school at Charlotte H.S. in Rochester, NY.  That school won state championships. As fate had it, that city school dropped the music and sports programs and all HOPE was erased for all of the kids that applied to.  When you erase hope - someone with leadership qualities like captain of his football takes his leadership qualities to something like leader of a gang.  Anyway, the same kid went to jail for armed robbery in his junior year.  Some wealthy white people would read that and say "Typical, look at that punk!"  What would have happened to Jim Brown if you erased sports from his life?   I'm guessing he thought of stuff like that when he chose to help the gangs in LA and surrounding areas in CA. That's a good thing that at least showed he had a heart in that inner chest. He also became a civil rights activist.

Sorry for rambling on... 

[calfoxwc]

18 hours ago, Orion said:

Umm...you do understand that Jim Brown used to beat women...right?  I don't think that Watson has done anything like that.  I'm not condoning Watson's massage parlor behavior.....I'm just sayin'...

Very True ! And, of course I knew that, we watched him in person back in the day. I have some years on ya.

Jim Brown grew out of that, became who he was later, a hugely respectable human being. As a kid, I've said before, I didn't like the person he was back then...he wasn't my favorite rb back then - Leroy Kelly was. I used to watch every move Leroy Kelly made to learn, thinking I would be a rb one day. nope. I admired Leroy Kelly, and Bill Nelson, who had bad knees like I did already, back then.

[Orion]

4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

my favorite rb back then - Leroy Kelly

Yup.  After Jim left, Leroy Kelly filled right in nicely...and became my favorite player also.

[Dutch Oven]

11 hours ago, Flugel said:

WOW!  Thank you!   I'm from Upstate NY between Buffalo and Syracuse.  Back in the day, Syracuse had RBs like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Larry Csonka (

My favorite Gipper story was when he found out I am from Ravenna, and we started talking high school football. In the 60s, Ravenna had a RB named Don Nottingham, and at about the same time 10 miles west Stow had Larry Csonka. Everyone knows Csonka, but Nottingham played in the NFL too.

Gipper told me that he had a friend who played against both, since Ravenna and Stow both played his high school. His friend told him that Csonka was a lightweight compared to Nottingham. He was nicknamed "The Human Cannonball". 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

Yup.  After Jim left, Leroy Kelly filled right in nicely...and became my favorite player also.

So who is better - Kelly or Nick Chubb? 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

My favorite Gipper story was when he found out I am from Ravenna, and we started talking high school football. In the 60s, Ravenna had a RB named Don Nottingham, and at about the same time 10 miles east Stow had Larry Csonka. Everyone knows Csonka, but Nottingham played in the NFL too.

Gipper told me that he had a friend who played against both, since Ravenna and Stow both played his high school. His friend told him that Csonka was a lightweight compared to Nottingham. He was nicknamed "The Human Cannon Ball". 

You're right Nottingham was also called "The Bowling Ball".  LOVED watching him.  He was a more compact version of Larry Csonka  which made him even harder to tackle.  My dad would always you gotta watch this guy.  He played also played for Shula in Miami after spending his 1st few years with the Colts.  

I was REALLY impressed you remembered how hard of a time Cleveland gave that 72 Dolphins team in the playoffs.  They were the closest team to beating Miami.  They had em 14-13 late midway through the 4th quarter.  Do you remember the 8-8 Cleveland team in 85 that blew a 21-3 lead to Miami in the 1st round of the playoffs?  

Good Lord!!!!

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

You're right Nottingham was also called "The Bowling Ball".  LOVED watching him.  He was a more compact version of Larry Csonka  which made him even harder to tackle.  My dad would always you gotta watch this guy.  He played also played for Shula in Miami after spending his 1st few years with the Colts.  

I was REALLY impressed you remembered how hard of a time Cleveland gave that 72 Dolphins team in the playoffs.  They were the closest team to beating Miami.  They had em 14-13 late midway through the 4th quarter.  Do you remember the 8-8 Cleveland team in 85 that blew a 21-3 lead to Miami in the 1st round of the playoffs?  

Good Lord!!!!

Check out the conversation between TattleCal and Orion about Jim Brown.  That got really funny.

That's right, even when I wrote "The Cannonball" I thought that doesn't sound right. 

My dad often talked about how close the Browns came to upending the Dolphins perfect season, I even watched a youtube video of the highlights after posting about it. 

I vividly remember watching the game at a friend of mine's house in Kent, we had played outside in the snow, then came in to watch the game. I would have been 10. Byner was an absolute beast, but a lack of a passing attack kind of hampered the Browns ability to add to their lead. The Browns would fix that problem the next year in Kosar's sophomore year. Shortly after, Don Rogers would die of a cocaine overdose. Many speculate how the Browns defensive fortunes would have fared going forward with Rogers still on the team, he was potentially that good of a safety. 

TattleCal.... 🤣

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

That's right, even when I wrote "The Cannonball" I thought that doesn't sound right. 

My dad often talked about how close the Browns came to upending the Dolphins perfect season, I even watched a youtube video of the highlights after posting about it. 

I vividly remember watching the game at a friend of mine's house in Kent, we had played outside in the snow, then came in to watch the game. I would have been 10. Byner was an absolute beast, but a lack of a passing attack kind of hampered the Browns ability to add to their lead. The Browns would fix that problem the next year in Kosar's sophomore year. Shortly after, Don Rogers would die of a cocaine overdose. Many speculate how the Browns defensive fortunes would have fared going forward with Rogers still on the team, he was potentially that good of a safety. 

TattleCal.... 🤣

Your dad got you hooked too?  I think Nottingham was called a "Cannon Ball" by anyone that tried to tackle him.   There was actually a 45 speed record in 1972 called "The Game Planned to Beat Miami" which used the format of the 12 Days of Christmas and if memory serves me right the singer was imitating Howard Cosell. 

After that 85 season, the Browns hired Lindy Infante in 86 and all those defenses chomping at the bits to blitz the cement shoe'd Kosar would pay dearly.  2 blue collar unkowns at the time, RB Herman Fontenot caught 47 passes on 3rd downs exclusively while WR Brian Brennan caught 55 passes (also mostly on 3rd downs) to keep drives alive. Our RBs combined for something like 122 or 125 receptions in the hook zones and flats vacated by blitzing LBers. Infante also looked at a swing pass to the RBs as an equivalent to the quick pitch to RB except it went forward instead of slightly backward.  It was still ball control like the running game. Lindy liked to spread the field horizontally, which would open seams vertically.  Just a fun offense to watch as the Browns improved to 12-4 in 86.  

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

So who is better - Kelly or Nick Chubb? 

...you sent me to the stats to verify my thinking that Chubb is the best RB we've had since Jim Brown.  But he's still on the clock.  Kelly did it for 10 years (and his last year really hurt his numbers).

Nick is averaging 5.2 y/c while Leroy only 4.2.  (again, Nick's gotta do it for more years)   And I think Chubb is more powerful and faster...but Kelly wasn't slow and he was shifty.  Kelly was the better receiver...and he averaged 12 y/catch to Chubb's 8.3.   Back then I wasn't much of a blocking watcher...but we know that Chubb is a pretty solid blocker.  Leroy Kelly was a durable RB!  But of course, back then they actually wore pads.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

...you sent me to the stats to verify my thinking that Chubb is the best RB we've had since Jim Brown.  But he's still on the clock.  Kelly did it for 10 years (and his last year really hurt his numbers).

Nick is averaging 5.2 y/c while Leroy only 4.2.  (again, Nick's gotta do it for more years)   And I think Chubb is more powerful and faster...but Kelly wasn't slow and he was shifty.  Kelly was the better receiver...and he averaged 12 y/catch to Chubb's 8.3.   Back then I wasn't much of a blocking watcher...but we know that Chubb is a pretty solid blocker.  Leroy Kelly was a durable RB!  But of course, back then they actually wore pads.

nice job.

[Flugel]

17 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

That's right, even when I wrote "The Cannonball" I thought that doesn't sound right. 

My dad often talked about how close the Browns came to upending the Dolphins perfect season, I even watched a youtube video of the highlights after posting about it. 

I vividly remember watching the game at a friend of mine's house in Kent, we had played outside in the snow, then came in to watch the game. I would have been 10. Byner was an absolute beast, but a lack of a passing attack kind of hampered the Browns ability to add to their lead. The Browns would fix that problem the next year in Kosar's sophomore year. Shortly after, Don Rogers would die of a cocaine overdose. Many speculate how the Browns defensive fortunes would have fared going forward with Rogers still on the team, he was potentially that good of a safety. 

TattleCal.... 🤣

Do you realize on that 85 team - the Browns had the Offensive Rookie of the Year and the Defensive Rookie of the Year?  Kevin Mack earned it rushing for over 1100 yards and scoring 7 TDs; and it probably could have been a lot more if Byner wasn't also rushing for over 1000 yards on the ground. That was Smash-mouth football!  Mack was running 4.5 forties in that frame coming out of Clemson (we drafted him in the USFL Supplemental Draft from the LA Express); so he was faster than 10th round pick Earnest Byner. Didn't matter, that was a very fun tandem to watch.  On Defense, another promising player came to us from LA. This was UCLA Safety Don Rogers that captured everyone's attention when he earned the Defensive Rookie of the Year.  6 years later, Cleveland drafted UCLA's Eric Turner with the 2nd overall pick in 1991.   That guy was a lot of fun to watch too.  

That USFL expedited how quickly the Browns improved the roster with great acquisitions like MLB Mike Johnson (LOVED that guy), CB Frank Minnifield, OG Dan Fike, KR/PR Gerald "Ice Cube" McNeil aside from FB Kevin Mack..  That's a lot of quality help on top of the NFL Draft.  They also landed Kosar in the Supplemental Draft.  These were a lot of winning ingredients that had the Browns frequenting playoffs throughout the back half of the 80s in the rebirth of our Kardiac Kids.  

Just asking, is it possible this offseason approach can CPR the Kardiac Kids back to us again?  

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Do you realize on that 85 team - the Browns had the Offensive Rookie of the Year and the Defensive Rookie of the Year?  Kevin Mack earned it rushing for over 1100 yards and scoring 7 TDs; and it probably could have been a lot more if Byner wasn't also rushing for over 1000 yards on the ground. That was Smash-mouth football!  Mack was running 4.5 forties in that frame coming out of Clemson (we drafted him in the USFL Supplemental Draft from the LA Express); so he was faster than 10th round pick Earnest Byner. Didn't matter, that was a very fun tandem to watch.  On Defense, another promising player came to us from LA. This was UCLA Safety Don Rogers that captured everyone's attention when he earned the Defensive Rookie of the Year.  6 years later, Cleveland drafted UCLA's Eric Turner with the 2nd overall pick in 1991.   That guy was a lot of fun to watch too.  

That USFL expedited how quickly the improved that roster with great acquisitions like MLB Mike Johnson (LOVED that guy), CB Frank Minnifield, OG Dan Fike, KR/PR Gerald "Ice Cube" McNeil aside from FB Kevin Mack..  That's a lot of quality help on top of the NFL Draft.  They also landed Kosar in the Supplemental Draft.  These were a lot of winning ingredients that had the Browns frequenting playoffs throughout the back half of the 80s in the rebirth of our Kardiac Kids.  

Just asking, is it possible this offseason approach can CPR the Kardiac Kids back to us again?  

It's sad to think both Rogers and Turner died before they even began to peak... I just keep thinking what could've been.. If Chip Banks didn't fuck himself up on drugs...

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, nickers said:

It's sad to think both Rogers and Turner died before they even began to peak... I just keep thinking what could've been.. If Chip Banks didn't fuck himself up on drugs...

Sad indeed!   Just think what could have unfolded if Ernie Davis didn't get Leukemia.  He was a BIG reason Syracuse won their only National Championship.  As for Chip Banks, wouldn't it have been nice to have had him hunting Elway the way Derrick Thomas did?  That was the 1 thing that 86 defense lacked was an edge rusher IMO.  

[ballpeen]

I think the time of year has something to do with staying on topic.  With no camp, draft, games etc. it is pretty easy to stray off a topic.

 

That said, we don't need to use that as an excuse to push grudge stuff to the forefront.

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

I think the time of year has something to do with staying on topic.  With no camp, draft, games etc. it is pretty easy to stray off a topic.

 

That said, we don't need to use that as an excuse to push grudge stuff to the forefront.

I'm sure when the games start everyone will get along in a team effort to fully and completely support the Cleveland Browns.

(Where's DBone and his knowledge of how to turn that pink when you need him?)

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm sure when the games start everyone will get along in a team effort to fully and completely support the Cleveland Browns.

(Where's DBone and his knowledge of how to turn that pink when you need him?)

😉

[Orion]

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I think the time of year has something to do with staying on topic. 

In the upper left of a post it tells ya when the post was made.  Next to that it should list the thread title.  Many times I'll be reading down a thread, post after post, then I'll start wondering, What's this thread supposed to be about again?  So I've gotta scroll to the top and say, OH, Yeah!. 

This thread's about negativity.   We're Browns fans.  We've been strapped to the negative battery terminal pretty much constantly since 1995.  

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

We've been strapped to the negative battery terminal pretty much constantly since 1995.  

That's because lightning (Jim Brown) never strikes twice in the same place.⚡🤗

[ballpeen]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

That's because lightning (Jim Brown) never strikes twice in the same place.⚡🤗

While Jim was alive, his spirit was with him.  Now that the spirit has been freed from the body his spirt can take to the field to help out.

[Flugel]

4 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

While Jim was alive, his spirit was with him.  Now that the spirit has been freed from the body his spirt can take to the field to help out.

Interesting!  Nick Chubb said he's dedicating this season to Jim Brown so color me very intrigued to see how this turns out.

[nickers]

Just now, Flugel said:

Interesting!  Nick Chubb said he's dedicating this season to Jim Brown so color me very intrigued to see how this turns out.

Lets hope Kevvy uses his motivation in the 2nd half of games this season when he is needed..

[ballpeen]

11 minutes ago, nickers said:

Lets hope Kevvy uses his motivation in the 2nd half of games this season when he is needed..

Even better, lets hope we can rush Ford and whoever in the 2nd half of games.

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Lets hope Kevvy uses his motivation in the 2nd half of games this season when he is needed..

Tell you what Nicks, I'll even buy him a blow-torch so he can light all the right fannies!