Terry Pluto on Browns OTAs

[SdBacker80]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

umm....neither guy showed up for the OTA.  So that's the 1st work ethic thing the younger players learned from our team leaders.  

 

12 minutes ago, Flugel said:

As bad as that may seem to some of us - try not let it twist your nipples.  Find me 2 veterans on this team that condition themselves better and consistently play at a Pro Bowl level because of it.  At this time of the off-season, I'd rather see the guys competing for the 2nd RB role learning and getting acclimated with all the OTA reps (than the guy that continuously averages over 5 yards a carry and ranks #1 or #2 in yards after contact).   On defense, there's a ton of newbies/newcomers at DE that could use the OTA reps more than Garrett needs them.  It's a long season ahead so they'll have plenty of chances to role model how they became ideal professionals that have EARNED very respectful contract extensions from their employer.  As the season gets underway, new teammates can also watch film of how they excel during games.  

We are gonna need Nick in December and January.  I’m predicting this season to be his heaviest workload.  Mental reps at this point are less important than him conditioning his body for the grind…he still looks like spends more time in the weight room than in front of TV and quite honestly he’s the guy i worry about the least.   

Now If we want to see leadership we need Myles to play 17 games next year if he misses a few it’s because of a cut block and not a joyride. 

[tiamat63]

11 hours ago, ballpeen said:

 

If the language is too hard, or the player is too dim to be able to do that, you best not play him.  If it is simply a mistake, well, shit happens.

 

 It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around.  And while I'm not going to use the word 'dim', there was a reason Grant's role was reduced at times.  But those reductions, especially at safety, harm the defense as a whole.  The Pats game was the first instance of that. 

[ballpeen]

[quote] It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around[/quote]

 

I agree.  I never suggested otherwise.

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 It's the NFL, you acclimate and play to the level, not the other way around.  And while I'm not going to use the word 'dim', there was a reason Grant's role was reduced at times.  But those reductions, especially at safety, harm the defense as a whole.  The Pats game was the first instance of that. 

The general thought process of the typical run-of-the-mill fan is to get super duper excited when (if) they hear that their new Defensive Coordinator promises a "simple but aggressive defense". 

That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.

[Orion]

26 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.

Ya gotta be able to rush the passer.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Ya gotta be able to rush the passer.  

Hold up....

Are you saying that it is a good thing to be able to rush the passer?

MIND.

BLOWN. 

😉

[Orion]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Hold up....

Are you saying that it is a good thing to be able to rush the passer?

MIND.

BLOWN. 

😉

Going back to Joe Bannon.  'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.  

It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is.  If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them.  - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.  

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

Going back to Joe Bannon.  'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.  

It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is.  If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them.  - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.  

 

[SdBacker80]

10 hours ago, Orion said:

Going back to Joe Bannon.  'Today's NFL is pass and rush the passer'.  

It doesn't matter how complex and smart the back end of your D is.  If you can't pressure the QB then 1 or 2 receivers are gonna have time to get open and an NFL QB will get the ball to them.  - Of course, if you can't stop the run (like us) then you're equally as screwed.  

I hear ya.  Past three years, I needed more fingers and toes to count the times when an analyst or someone paid to give opinions would point we need to change something (disguise it better send an extra guy or two) because our front 4 wasn’t getting pressure.  I called it “The hope Myles gets there strategy”.  I remember Washington game I think (season at that point was over the brink) and we see Myles kicking inside and destroy a guard and center…I’m like nice could we have seen that earlier or more frequently 
 

Our secondary…anyone think we are void of athletic talent back there?  The issues in the past have been between the ears.  Why?  I beat the horse enough I’ll turn the page 

 

[Flugel]

32 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I hear ya.  Past three years, I needed more fingers and toes to count the times when an analyst or someone paid to give opinions would point we need to change something (disguise it better send an extra guy or two) because our front 4 wasn’t getting pressure.  I called it “The hope Myles gets there strategy”.  I remember Washington game I think (season at that point was over the brink) and we see Myles kicking inside and destroy a guard and center…I’m like nice could we have seen that earlier or more frequently 
 

Our secondary…anyone think we are void of athletic talent back there?  The issues in the past have been between the ears.  Why?  I beat the horse enough I’ll turn the page 

 

Yeah, it's okay to vent when you're a fan of this franchise.  Your never-ending loyalty over that years gives you that right. Nothing wrong with wanting them to be more successful.

It'll be nice to add the extensive experience of Jim Schwartz as our DC.    It's already had a profound impact on our off-season acquisitions/draft on the IDL and edge as well as Safety...  

While I agree there's talent in the secondary - they have to do a better job of communicating and learning from their mistakes.  The LSU guys (Greedy Williams and Grant Delpit) haven't always looked like the brightest apples in the orchard.  Then add their injury histories to insult.  That'll make people forget about how talented they are real quickly.  Having said all that, I thought Delpit finally turned it around the 2nd half of last season. When the consistency noticeably improves - that's usually a good sign for a young player like Delpit.   

Stubborn, stupid or correct by accident - I'm excited for this season...

[Orion]

...this isn't Pluto:

According to CB Denzel Ward, the secondary won’t have the same chance for miscommunication this year:

Denzel Ward thinks the defense that Jim Schwartz brings will eliminate a lot of the miscommunication problems the defense has last year.

There are positives and negatives to both types of systems. “Read-and-react” coverage allows for defenders to adjust to the offenses scheme as the play unfolds but it can lead to breakdowns like we have seen in Cleveland. The “we play what we play” coverage minimizes those miscommunications but doesn’t allow for flexibility to change based on what is happening in a play.

Given the experience the last couple of seasons, Browns fans will happily accept a safer brand of coverage.

Ward also noted that we are likely to see him playing in the slot more than in previous seasons. Much of that could be Schwartz looking to match up his cornerbacks with specific receivers. Long gone are times when receivers line up only on the left or right or only on the outside or inside.

One concern when Ward is inside is the physical toll that can have on a player as the slot corner has far more run-game responsibilities than those on the outside. In the slot, Ward is more likely to face offensive linemen and tight ends instead of receivers blocking him.

---- 

I don't think I'm a fan of Hospital Ward playing a lot in the slot.  He'll wind up with another concussion or something.  

[ballpeen]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

 

I don't think I'm a fan of Hospital Ward playing a lot in the slot.  He'll wind up with another concussion or something.  

Probably going to happen no matter where he plays.  Once you have rattled your brain a few times the odds are pretty steep it will continue.  If it happens again, if I were him I would seriously consider retirement.  But, it may already be too late.  He may already be destined to being a drooler by the time he is 65.

[Orion]

8 hours ago, ballpeen said:

If it happens again, if I were him I would seriously consider retirement.

I thought he should've retired after the last one.

[gumby73]

At Combine Dawand Jones (Ohio State)

6-8

374

11 5/8"

36 3/8"

87 7/8"

  

 senior bowl   

today's look     

“I’m not where I want to be, but I’m on track,” Jones said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I’m just losing weight every week, you know what I mean? It’s just what I need to do every week to be better.”

“I told almost every team, turn on tape and you can just see it on my film,” he said. “I play with that anger and aggression. It just comes from the heart. You just don’t want nobody to touch the quarterback and that’s my main goal.”

Jones has admittedly struggled with his conditioning, and he threw up on the field at the rookie mini-camp. But the Browns believe he has the talent to be a good pro offensive tackle, if he gets in shape and stays in shape.

 

Team physicals were today.  Looks like DJ's weight is headed in the right direction 

               

[Flugel]

On 6/2/2023 at 6:20 PM, Dutch Oven said:

The general thought process of the typical run-of-the-mill fan is to get super duper excited when (if) they hear that their new Defensive Coordinator promises a "simple but aggressive defense". 

That sounds great, until a well-run offense goes up against it and carves it up like a Thanksgiving turkey.

Yeah but this is Cleveland - what could possibly go wrong?

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, gumby73 said:

At Combine Dawand Jones (Ohio State)

6-8

374

11 5/8"

36 3/8"

87 7/8"

  

 senior bowl   

today's look     

“I’m not where I want to be, but I’m on track,” Jones said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I’m just losing weight every week, you know what I mean? It’s just what I need to do every week to be better.”

“I told almost every team, turn on tape and you can just see it on my film,” he said. “I play with that anger and aggression. It just comes from the heart. You just don’t want nobody to touch the quarterback and that’s my main goal.”

Jones has admittedly struggled with his conditioning, and he threw up on the field at the rookie mini-camp. But the Browns believe he has the talent to be a good pro offensive tackle, if he gets in shape and stays in shape.

 

Team physicals were today.  Looks like DJ's weight is headed in the right direction 

               

Classic stuff!  That young man's got a lot of character right there - if he didn't throw it all up.  That's the kind of guy you want to devour a half gallon of mint chocolate chip ice cream with on the couch watching an aerobics class on TV.  

[ballpeen]

11 hours ago, gumby73 said:

At Combine Dawand Jones (Ohio State)

6-8

374

11 5/8"

36 3/8"

87 7/8"

  

 senior bowl   

today's look     

“I’m not where I want to be, but I’m on track,” Jones said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I’m just losing weight every week, you know what I mean? It’s just what I need to do every week to be better.”

“I told almost every team, turn on tape and you can just see it on my film,” he said. “I play with that anger and aggression. It just comes from the heart. You just don’t want nobody to touch the quarterback and that’s my main goal.”

Jones has admittedly struggled with his conditioning, and he threw up on the field at the rookie mini-camp. But the Browns believe he has the talent to be a good pro offensive tackle, if he gets in shape and stays in shape.

 

Team physicals were today.  Looks like DJ's weight is headed in the right direction 

               

The guy needs to get in shape, but shape for a person that big.  The reality is he isn't ever going to have to run more than 10-15 yards. Probably more like 5-10 yards before the back is past him and blocking becomes pointless. For guys like that, 20 yard sprints is what I would have them do .I think sometimes coaches and trainers have a 1 way fits all, and that isn't the case.

[Kvoethe]

On 6/1/2023 at 7:48 AM, ballpeen said:

And do what?  I am serious.  Standing around is being a leader?  Plus, who says Myles is or wants to be a leader?  You don't pin the leader tag on the donkey.  It just happens.  Some special teams player can emerge as a leader.  It doesn't have to be the best player.

 

As fans we many times think the best player has to be the leader, but the players on the team determine who is the leader.

https://heavy.com/sports/cleveland-browns/myles-garrett-otas-jim-schwartz/

[Kvoethe]

On 5/31/2023 at 10:19 PM, Dutch Oven said:

Oooh, the troll is back. 

https://heavy.com/sports/cleveland-browns/myles-garrett-otas-jim-schwartz/

Im not the only one who thinks he should show up...douche oven

[Dutch Oven]

4 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

https://heavy.com/sports/cleveland-browns/myles-garrett-otas-jim-schwartz/

Im not the only one who thinks he should show up...douche oven

But no one gives a shit what you think on here, troll. 

But troll away!

[ballpeen]

5 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

https://heavy.com/sports/cleveland-browns/myles-garrett-otas-jim-schwartz/

That's cool.  I just don't see the big deal.

 

Maybe because I have never seen Myles as a leader.  He hasn't demonstrated that since he was drafted.  Some people just don't fit in to that mold, so why try at this point?  As long as he plays well, I don't care about the leader part.

[Orion]

7 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

https://heavy.com/sports/cleveland-browns/myles-garrett-otas-jim-schwartz/

I'm one that wants everyone at the voluntaries.  Especially if you're one of the 'stars' of the team.  To me, it sets the wrong example.  The word 'team' is supposed to mean 'everyone'.  The author doesn't care about Bito or Chubb not being there...but is upset that Myles isn't there.  He doesn't get to pick who the team leader is.  Once things get rolling, the players will notice who the real team leaders are.  And I'm sure some of 'em were in attendance.  

I agree with ballpeen.  I never thought of Myles as the team leader.  Or the team leader type.  The media et all have placed him in that roll.  And that's too bad because I don't think that roll suits him.  Landry was the leader type when he was here.  But that's not Myles.

[SdBacker80]

I’ll care if Chubb and Myles show up to camp in July out of shape and pulling a hammy the first week. 

[Kvoethe]

Considering the millions he gets paid, the helmet suspension etc.  He needs to show up.

[Kvoethe]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:45 PM, Dutch Oven said:

But no one gives a shit what you think on here, troll. 

But troll away!

Keep settling for mediocrity...

[Brownsfan92]

I get both sides.

New defense and playoffs/superbowl aspirations.  It certainly can't hurt for Myles to be there.

Now the other side of the coin.  We don't know everything that's going on behind the scenes.  Myles is a smart veteran who may already has a handle on the new D schemes and when the time comes for training camp he'll be ready.

[syd]

By 

• Terry Pluto, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Is this the year that Myles Garrett takes a big step forward?

 

I was wondering about that when listening to the defensive end’s press conference during the Browns minicamp this week.

 

I’m not talking about winning the Defensive Player of the Year award, which has been one of Garrett’s goals for years. Rather, how about becoming one of the real leaders of the defense?

 

Looking at Garrett last week, I was thinking, “He’s getting close to 30. He’s been on the team for quite a while.”

 

 

This is Garrett’s seventh season with the Browns, but he’s only 27.

 

In terms of age and experience, he should be entering his pro football prime. Garrett has made four Pro Bowls. Twice, he has been a first team All-NFL selection. In the last five years, only T.J. Watt (70) has more sacks than Garrett (67).

 

 

While there sometimes seems to be a sense Garrett can be even better on the field, he’s been highly productive.

 

 

But it is time for more.

 

 

Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Joe Woods didn't seem to connect well with Garrett.John Kuntz, cleveland.com

 

 

DID THE BROWNS GIVE GARRETT SPECIAL TREATMENT?

 

 

It’s doubtful former defensive coordinator Joe Woods seriously challenged Garrett. It’s hard to know if everything Jadeveon Clowney said was accurate in his blistering interview with cleveland.com’s Mary Kay Cabot at the end of last season.

 

That said, one of Clowney’s basic charges was that Garrett received special treatment. I’d heard Woods may have been guilty of that – or at least, some players on defense thought so.

 

 

Maybe it’s a little thing, but remember when coach Kevin Stefanski asked the entire team to go to the Hall of Fame last summer? One significant player declined: Garrett.

 

 

“I don’t want to go to the Hall of Fame until I’m in it,” Garrett told Cabot.

 

 

Stefanski didn’t push the issue. A team trip to the Hall of Fame is a great idea, letting players know that the NFL didn’t begin with them. It’s a way to honor the players who came before. Other players on the team also noticed Garrett’s absence and the team’s lame response.

 

 

Garrett’s irresponsible driving also was revealed last season when he was in an accident, as his history of being ticketed for dangerous speeding became public. I’ve heard his driving has since improved.

 

 

Illustration by Ted Crow for Crowquill. The Browns hired former Lions head coach Jim Schwartz to replace fired defensive coordinator Joe Woods.

 

COACHES COME, COACHES GO

 

 

Garrett has been exalted as a player dating back to high school. He was the No. 1 recruit in the country. At Texas A&M, Garrett set an SEC record for sacks by a freshman with 11.

 

 

He was the No. 1 pick in the 2017 NFL Draft, and immediately became Cleveland’s premier defensive player. He joined a team that was 1-15 before he arrived, then went 0-16 in his rookie season. He became a spokesman for the defense during his rookie year, when he was not prepared for that role. Simply too young at the age of 21.

 

 

Garrett’s first NFL defensive coordinator was Gregg Williams, who did push the young defensive end. After Williams left following the 2018 season, Garrett said the defensive coordinator would allow him to only use “two moves” rushing the passer.

 

 

Then Garrett had Steve Wilks as his defensive coordinator in 2019. Next came Woods, from 2020-22.

 

 

Enter Jim Schwartz, the fourth defensive coordinator for Garrett in seven seasons. Schwartz is experienced, respected and generally loved by the defensive linemen he’s coached in the past.

 

 

Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz is right there with his players during practice. John Kuntz, cleveland.com

 

A NEW ERA?

 

 

Garrett has longed for more freedom rushing the passer – also, more help on the defensive line.

 

 

GM Andrew Berry hired Schwartz, then made major upgrades by trading for defensive end Za’Darius Smith, along with signing veteran free agents Dalvin Tomlinson and Ogbo Okoronkwo.

 

 

By far, this is the most talent group lining up with Garrett since he came to the Browns.

 

 

“You have a lot of guys who have just been waiting on this opportunity that we have,” Garrett said. “This freedom that we’ve been given ... I know Schwartz likes to say, ‘Take off the seatbelt.’ I think that’s really the mindset. You get out there and you’re just letting it loose. Don’t worry about all these rules and doing all this as soon as you know your assignment. After that, you get off the ball ... get to the ball.”

 

 

Schwartz is naturally excited to have Garrett.

 

 

“I have been very fortunate over my career to be blessed with some really good defensive linemen,” said Schwartz the day he was hired. “We run a very D-line-friendly scheme that eliminates a lot of conflict for those guys ... We sort of let those guys go and be disruptive.”

 

 

That’s the general approach. Then Schwartz turned to Garrett.

 

“I think that every offense we will play will probably start with that – how do we neutralize Myles Garrett and how do we keep him from wrecking this game?” he said. “It’s my job to give him some answers and put some pieces scheme-wise and personnel-wise around him to allow him to be free and more productive... The bar is set really high for a good reason.”

 

 

No one is questioning Garrett’s effort. He has played hard. He generally plays hard. He has missed only three games to injuries in the last five years. He also was suspended for six games in 2019 for his on-field brawl with Pittsburgh QB Mason Rudolph.

 

 

Perhaps earlier in his career, Garrett may not have been as receptive of the tough coaching he’ll receive from Schwartz. This should be different. This should be better. Garrett should be ready to embrace a defensive leadership role on the field – and off it. The right things are now in place for him to do so.

 

 

HEAR ME TALK

 

 

1. On June 27 at 6:30 pm, I will be at the Rodman Library in Alliance. It’s free. I’ll take questions, sign books, meet fans. Call 330-821-2665 to register or do so on line.

 

 

2. On July 11 at 6 p.m., I will be at the Lake Community Library at 565 Market Street SW, Uniontown. You can register on line or call 330-877-9975.

 

 

3. On July 25 at 6 p.m., I will be at the Ritter Library in Vermilion.

[Vambo]

 

[ballpeen]

Myles is at a crossroads of sorts.

 

Before he has had coordinators he could blame to some degree, or at least he so thought and people went along with that.

 

Schwartz is different.  He is highly qualified and has had great success with his defensive lines.  

[Dutch Oven]

11 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Myles is at a crossroads of sorts.

 

Before he has had coordinators he could blame to some degree, or at least he so thought and people went along with that.

 

Schwartz is different.  He is highly qualified and has had great success with his defensive lines.  

I'm a little confused by the second line.

Garrett is a perennial Pro-Bowler. What is he blaming on ex-DCs that people go along with?