When qb's have wr's that can get OPEN, here's what happens

[calfoxwc]

The Browns upgraded their cast of wr's dramatically. That is a saving grace for a qb who needs to make a pass play work with little time.

What could have been -

"

Latest News

• Sunday 5:47 PM | Rotowire.com

  Leads upset win in team debut

  Mayfield completed 21 of 34 passes for 173 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions and added eight carries for 11 yards in the Buccaneers' 20-17 win over the Vikings on Sunday.

  Advice: Officially beginning his tenure as the Buccaneers' starting quarterback, Mayfield displayed impressive poise during a mistake-free performance in a tough road environment. The 2018 first overall pick unsurprisingly leaned on Mike Evans and Chris Godwin the most, with 11 of his completions, 117 yards and one of his touchdowns ending up in the hands of the duo. Mayfield connected with seven different targets overall, and in addition to his 28-yard scoring toss to Evans just before halftime, he also hit rookie Trey Palmer for a seven-yard touchdown pass in the third quarter. With a solid start to the season under his belt, Mayfield will look to build on it in his Week 2 home debut against the Bears."

[calfoxwc]

and as great as Josh Allen is, he nearly broke his turnover high. I didn't know the Jets had so much defense.

He often had serious trouble finding an open receiver. Sauce Gardner is really tough in the secondary.

"but Allen let New York back in with a pair of second-half interceptions and a fourth-quarter fumble that led to the Jets' go-ahead field goal with 1:48 remaining in regulation. "

"Four turnovers by quarterback Josh Allen had the Bills on the ropes down the stretch in regulation, but Diggs came up clutch late with three catches for 40 yards in the two-minute drill to set up a game-tying field goal, though Buffalo ultimately fell short in overtime. The star receiver was undaunted by a tough matchup against cornerback Sauce Gardner and the stout New York secondary while no teammate had more than 32 receiving yards. "

 

[Bob806]

Someday, who knows when, we'll hear about why the Browns moved on from Baker. 

The Browns have been remarkably "hush" on locker room matters, and Baker has taken the high road (I think). 

I suspect it was a locker room issue, and perhaps  Baker getting a second/third opinion on his shoulder. For a professional football team to keep trotting out an injured QB while the "playoff carrot" was dangling right before their eyes is truly an enigma. I felt ripped off as a season ticket holder, even more so than the "tanking."

I wish Baker well in TB, won't root against him. I just don't think he's mobile enough to overcome the enevitable bull -rush up-the-gut pressure that ultimately leads to him making mistakes. See the Green bay game on Christmas Eve. 

[Flugel]

58 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

The Browns upgraded their cast of wr's dramatically. That is a saving grace for a qb who needs to make a pass play work with little time.

What could have been -

"

Latest News

• Sunday 5:47 PM | Rotowire.com

  Leads upset win in team debut

  Mayfield completed 21 of 34 passes for 173 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions and added eight carries for 11 yards in the Buccaneers' 20-17 win over the Vikings on Sunday.

  Advice: Officially beginning his tenure as the Buccaneers' starting quarterback, Mayfield displayed impressive poise during a mistake-free performance in a tough road environment. The 2018 first overall pick unsurprisingly leaned on Mike Evans and Chris Godwin the most, with 11 of his completions, 117 yards and one of his touchdowns ending up in the hands of the duo. Mayfield connected with seven different targets overall, and in addition to his 28-yard scoring toss to Evans just before halftime, he also hit rookie Trey Palmer for a seven-yard touchdown pass in the third quarter. With a solid start to the season under his belt, Mayfield will look to build on it in his Week 2 home debut against the Bears."

Even Jameis Winston threw for 5109 yards and 33 TDs while completing 60.7% of his passes when he had the top 2 WRs in the conference (Evans and Godwin) in 2019.  However, Jameis also threw 30 INTs that same season.  Having great WRs doesn't prevent QBs from being careless (ie; Josh Allen vrs the Jets).

IMO, Baker has to prove he can be consistent in this league.  Sometimes he'll have a good game; and then the next opponent shows up well prepared to stop him. Maybe more experience will help that who knows?

[Flugel]

10 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Someday, who knows when, we'll hear about why the Browns moved on from Baker. 

The Browns have been remarkably "hush" on locker room matters, and Baker has taken the high road (I think). 

I suspect it was a locker room issue, and perhaps  Baker getting a second/third opinion on his shoulder. For a professional football team to keep trotting out an injured QB while the "playoff carrot" was dangling right before their eyes is truly an enigma. I felt ripped off as a season ticket holder, even more so than the "tanking."

I wish Baker well in TB, won't root against him. I just don't think he's mobile enough to overcome the enevitable bull -rush up-the-gut pressure that ultimately leads to him making mistakes. See the Green bay game on Christmas Eve. 

Troy Aikman doing the broadcast that day thought the Browns got screwed by a blatant interference that was never called deep in GB territory.  He wouldn't let it go either. He was saying the officials HAVE TO make that call.  

[SdBacker80]

We had good discussions on here about the strengths and weaknesses of his game.   It was never a general rule that the WRs couldn’t get separation.  And for the most part of his time in Cleveland he had better protection than 80% of the QBs in the NFL.  It was often the case when the WRs had separation Baker locked onto an initial read and didn’t make the right decision like throwing to a WR that could make a play. 
 

I’ve learned one big lesson as I’m still a fan of Baker although happy to have another option at QB.   I don’t get bowled over by good/decent/bad Baker performances because by years end he will evenly fill each bucket with good game followed by a bad game. He’s not consistent enough at this level and I think the three other teams he was part of the past 14 months realize this too. 

[The Junkyard Dog]

I don't understood the hate and laughing about Baker now and never did when he was here either; to not imo have the tools to work with as much as Watson does now, I think the dude was pretty solid overall and I think can succeed in TB given time.

Just find the hate for him in some corners of Browns fandom to be quite bizarre. I would take him as our starter over the tons of other duds we have had over the years.

[tiamat63]

 

 I can't imagine showing up to Troll this forum, bragging about a departed QB's new receiving weapons,  when said QB still puts up a performance that compares with Sam Howell, Josh Dobbs, Zach Wilson and Lamar Jackson.    Despite being in great weather conditions AND admitting they had the Vikes defensive signals.

 

Elite shit there.  

 

 Now some free money for all of you - When the Bucs hammer the Bears this weekend, and make no mistake they will, buy high and sell low on Tampa Bay the following week against the Eagles.   Because just like last year when the Rams beat Oakland and Baker Mania started to come back out in full force, I went in on Green Bay -5.5, and encouraged people here to do the same, the following week.   We watched the Rams offense implode in familiar ways.      Sadly, CHI isn't GB and they're not even a shell of any of their former teams.   So the hype train gets another week to build momentum.  Which is great for betting purposes.  Because the Eagles defense had some late ground given to Kirky and the Vikes passing game. PHI gets 9 1/2 days to rest and get their secondary healthy.   While the extra week for Tampa to beat up an overmatched Bears squad will really give Vegas the ability to put out a bait line that books are going to cash in on with that "Baker's back" money from fans.    

 Iggles will open between -2.5 and MAYBE -4 favorites, if at all...    Hell, they're going on the road and again, depending on how bad the Bucs slaughter Chi-town this weekend (considering Tampa gets a home game, it'll likely be nasty)  I could even see Tampa being a -1 or pick em'.  

 

Oh, and I've had this sitting on my desktop since Tuesday just in case anybody really thought Baker wasn't still missing high on wide open targets for TD's.  

To get ahead of questions.

- First read

- Only read

- Clean pocket

- Split safeties and no LB underneath

 

 

 

 

By the way, I accept tips on Cash App, Venmo and Patreon for any monies you guys might win gambling using my advice as your baseline.  

 

 

❤️

 

 

 

[Bob806]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Troy Aikman doing the broadcast that day thought the Browns got screwed by a blatant interference that was never called deep in GB territory.  He wouldn't let it go either. He was saying the officials HAVE TO make that call.  

What else is new lol?

Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Denver, New England...they get all the damn calls.

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, The Junkyard Dog said:

I don't understood the hate and laughing about Baker now and never did when he was here either; to not imo have the tools to work with as much as Watson does now, I think the dude was pretty solid overall and I think can succeed in TB given time.

Just find the hate for him in some corners of Browns fandom to be quite bizarre. I would take him as our starter over the tons of other duds we have had over the years.

On this board, people wanted him to succeed for the most part.  I don't remember anyone in here hating him.  I think we were all at least somewhat enthusiastic throughout his rookie year ending with 27 TD passes in only 13 starts.  However, he never beat that when he got more experienced.  The Browns also made big efforts to give him weapons to throw to like Jarvis Landry and OBJ.   They also drafted a LT in round 1 and they added Conklin at RT.  They drafted Nick Chubb to be the impressive running game we're proud of today.    The Browns also gave him 2 Pro Bowl Guards.  They also had a 1st round TE here while they drafted the Mackey Award winner - who caught a TD pass last week vrs Cincy.

If you think people hate Baker - you should have seen the HATRED for Colt McCoy (a 3rd round draft pick with a much longer NFL career than 1st round QBs like Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, and Johnny Manziel.  I'd like to see him do better for Tampa than he did for Carolina...

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 I can't imagine showing up to Troll this forum, bragging about a departed QB's new receiving weapons,  when said QB still puts up a performance that compares with Sam Howell, Josh Dobbs, Zach Wilson and Lamar Jackson.    Despite being in great weather conditions AND admitting they had the Vikes defensive signals.

 

Elite shit there.  

 

 

 

 

 

You know, if the reason I was able to squeak by a team was because I was able to figure out what the defense was running, I might not tell the world that I and my team was able to do so... you know, so maybe I could do that again without teams being on alert that I'm able to do so...

But I don't have the maturity level of a perpetual 12 year old like Baker, either. 

[calfoxwc]

Moving on, vs the squealers, I hope the Browns score twice as many points as the scum from three rivers.

What is impressive is the Browns' defense. They interviewed Schwartz, and he seems to be a huge breath of fresh air, he actually makes serious sense when he talks.

He should be HC eventually.

SI has a list of NFL defenses rated:

Browns are not top five...yet.

Tenth isn't too bad after week one:

Team Defense Rankings:

1. Cowboys, DAL, vs. NYJ
2. 49ers, SF, at LAR
3. Eagles, PHI, vs. MIN
4. Bills, BUF, vs. LV
5. Broncos, DEN, vs. WAS
6. Giants, NYG, ar ARI
7. Buccaneers, TB, vs. CHI
8. Browns, CLE, at PIT

[nickers]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

Moving on, vs the squealers, I hope the Browns score twice as many points as the scum from three rivers.

What is impressive is the Browns' defense. They interviewed Schwartz, and he seems to be a huge breath of fresh air, he actually makes serious sense when he talks.

He should be HC eventually.

SI has a list of NFL defenses rated:

Browns are not top five...yet.

Tenth isn't too bad after week one:

Team Defense Rankings:

1. Cowboys, DAL, vs. NYJ
2. 49ers, SF, at LAR
3. Eagles, PHI, vs. MIN
4. Bills, BUF, vs. LV
5. Broncos, DEN, vs. WAS
6. Giants, NYG, ar ARI
7. Buccaneers, TB, vs. CHI
8. Browns, CLE, at PIT

I would love to have him replace Kevvy... I still dont trust Kevvy when it counts

[calfoxwc]

24 minutes ago, nickers said:

I would love to have him replace Kevvy... I still dont trust Kevvy when it counts

yep, stef is outclassed badly by his OC and DC. That's his only possible saving grace.

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, nickers said:

I would love to have him replace Kevvy... I still dont trust Kevvy when it counts

BEFORE we replace anybody on this year's coaching staff - let's CONTINUE to replace last year's defense with this year's defense.  The Browns have played 1 game with 16 more to go. Didn't they start out 1-0 last year?  The hero of that game (Cade York) has chased himself right out of town since then.  

Right now I want Schwartz exactly where he wants to be - Coordinating our Defense WITHOUT Paul Depodesta telling him how to do it and getting involved on what situational defenses/personnel he wants to Poseiden Adventure it into.  No FOCKING thanks!  Don't you think if Schwartz wanted to be a Head Coach right now - he would be?  The same applies to Oline Coach Bill Callahan.  Let's get this defense in tact and build on it every week.  This week's game isn't going to be nearly as easy as many think it will.  This team we've followed forever - hasn't always followed up a big win like we wanted them to.  Do you know how many times we've seen the Browns beat somebody they're not supposed to beat only to lose to somebody they were supposed to beat the very next week?  Welcome back to Cleveland!  Let's change that stuff.

It's not just you Nicks - but let's calm down with wanting a new Head Coach right after every opener.  This is now the 2nd opener in a row this team has won.  How many decades do we have to go back to match that? The problems on offense go up over Stefanski to Front Office Depo.  Since there's 0% chance of changing that during this regular season - let's go 1 week at at time pondering how we can beat this week's opponent.  Ready?   If they fail to prepare for TJ Watt then they should prepare to fail.  There's the game right there IMO.  

[hoorta]

23 hours ago, Flugel said:

Even Jameis Winston threw for 5109 yards and 33 TDs while completing 60.7% of his passes when he had the top 2 WRs in the conference (Evans and Godwin) in 2019.  However, Jameis also threw 30 INTs that same season.  Having great WRs doesn't prevent QBs from being careless (ie; Josh Allen vrs the Jets).

IMO, Baker has to prove he can be consistent in this league.  Sometimes he'll have a good game; and then the next opponent shows up well prepared to stop him. Maybe more experience will help that who knows?

We've debated Baker's plusses and minuses ad nauseum, so there's NO need to rehash them again. We can just point out that Baker is now on his 4th team- that's what's called a "journeyman". Hey, Nick Foles won a Super Bowl, can Mayfield pull the same rabbit out of his hat? Personally, I doubt it. He is who he is, & marked improvement at this stage of his career is damn unlikely. And I certainly don't obsess about him. Yeah any QB with rudimentary NFL skills can look mighty good if he has all day to throw, and a couple of Pro Bowl caliber WRs to throw to. 

[hoorta]

17 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Moving on, vs the squealers, I hope the Browns score twice as many points as the scum from three rivers.

What is impressive is the Browns' defense. They interviewed Schwartz, and he seems to be a huge breath of fresh air, he actually makes serious sense when he talks.

He should be HC eventually.

 

Did you forget once upon a time Schwartz WAS a head coach?   

15 hours ago, nickers said:

I would love to have him replace Kevvy... I still don't trust Kevvy when it counts

NO, YOU DON'T.  Let me tell you why. Ya see, my brother in laws are huge Lions fans.... And their unanimous opinion is Schwartz sucked during his head coaching tenure in Detroit. It's certainly possible Jim has found his niche as a top Defensive Coordinator. The number of top OC's and DC's that made the jump to head coach and totally flopped is beyond my ability to count. The most glaring example there is Dick LeBeau.  

[nickers]

14 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Did you forget once upon a time Schwartz WAS a head coach?   

NO, YOU DON'T.  Let me tell you why. Ya see, my brother in laws are huge Lions fans.... And their unanimous opinion is Schwartz sucked during his head coaching tenure in Detroit. It's certainly possible Jim has found his niche as a top Defensive Coordinator. The number of top OC's and DC's that made the jump to head coach and totally flopped is beyond my ability to count. The most glaring example there is Dick LeBeau.  

Good analogy... But I never thought Schwartz was the problem in Detroit... But I agree with most of what ya said...

[SdBacker80]

25 minutes ago, nickers said:

Good analogy... But I never thought Schwartz was the problem in Detroit... But I agree with most of what ya said...

Schwartz inherited a turd salad sandwich and in two years took the Lions to the playoffs. 
 

Hasn’t been an HC since 2013 maybe he’s comfortable without that responsibility and title.

[Flugel]

50 minutes ago, hoorta said:

We've debated Baker's plusses and minuses ad nauseum, so there's NO need to rehash them again. We can just point out that Baker is now on his 4th team- that's what's called a "journeyman". Hey, Nick Foles won a Super Bowl, can Mayfield pull the same rabbit out of his hat? Personally, I doubt it. He is who he is, & marked improvement at this stage of his career is damn unlikely. And I certainly don't obsess about him. Yeah any QB with rudimentary NFL skills can look mighty good if he has all day to throw, and a couple of Pro Bowl caliber WRs to throw to. 

Yeah, we already did move on. Good point.  Glad to see you back here talking football again Larry!  

[Dutch Oven]

12 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Schwartz inherited a turd salad sandwich and in two years took the Lions to the playoffs. 
 

Hasn’t been an HC since 2013 maybe he’s comfortable without that responsibility and title.

That is true.

Interestingly enough, especially considering the amount of "he's a hardnosed coach who demands professionalism!" posts I've seen on here is how incredibly undisciplined those Lions teams were under him. They were one of the most penalized teams in the NFL, and if I recall had an ongoing problem with getting called for unsportsmanlike penalties. 

[Flugel]

27 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Schwartz inherited a turd salad sandwich and in two years took the Lions to the playoffs. 
 

Hasn’t been an HC since 2013 maybe he’s comfortable without that responsibility and title.

Not to scare you - but you and I have the same thinking about that part in bold.  I said something similar in my reply to Nicks.  

[nickers]

But theres just something about Kevvy... Where you know at some point he's gonna get cute and make that bone headed call and out think himself... I do NOT want to see that version of Kevvy this season...

[Dutch Oven]

Bubba Ventrone IMO would have a better chance of being named the Browns next head coach than Schwartz. 

I could see Schwartz being named as the interim HC if Stefanski was hypothetically fired in-season, but long-term I think Ventrone would be more likely. 

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Not to scare you - but you and I have the same thinking about that part in bold.  I said something similar in my reply to Nicks.  

Not scared here on the WC.  if I’m 57 and doing well at what I do and I’m set do I really want a challenge into my 60s. After some of his past gigs do we really want to assume he hasn’t had opportunities? 

[gumby73]

My fear is a team, such as the Chargers, (who's defense blows weekly/ with talent) under Brandon (boneheaded) Staley.. Should/could fire B. Staley ?

To hire a DC such as Jim Schwartz or Dan Quinn as their next head coach.. 

I've got more confidence with Stef coaching style, over watching Brandon Staley weekly 🫣

[nickers]

Just now, gumby73 said:

My fear is a team, such as the Chargers, (who's defense blows weekly/ with talent) under Brandon (boneheaded) Staley.. Should/could fire B. Staley ?

To hire a DC such as Jim Schwartz or Dan Quinn as their next head coach.. 

I've got more confidence with Stef coaching style, over watching Brandon Staley weekly 🫣

The sad part for me is Brandon Staley's parents are my neighbors and they're super nice people.. I hope the guy gets his stuff figured out and makes it...

[Flugel]

42 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Not scared here on the WC.  if I’m 57 and doing well at what I do and I’m set do I really want a challenge into my 60s. After some of his past gigs do we really want to assume he hasn’t had opportunities? 

😁  I didn't think you were.  You sum it all up real well.  That was some fun defense to watch.  I cringe when I hear people wanting the Browns to hurry up and fire Stefanski so they can make Schwartz a Head Coach instead of keeping him in his expertise.  That doesn't mean I like Stefanski's play calling or even his passing game all the time.

[Kvoethe]

Baker kicked ass again today!!!

[nickers]

15 minutes ago, Kvoethe said:

Baker kicked ass again today!!!

Yup and Mr.Peepee still looks pedestrian