Nick

[Westside Steve]

 

[Neo]

8 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

 

I just watched that video about 5 or 6 times and I can't see how that wasn't dirty. 55 is pulling him down and forwards while Fitzpatrick is going for his legs. I mean really? Is this even a debate?

[Westside Steve]

55 minutes ago, Neo said:

I just watched that video about 5 or 6 times and I can't see how that wasn't dirty. 55 is pulling him down and forwards while Fitzpatrick is going for his legs. I mean really? Is this even a debate?

The helmet tells the story in my opinion. And if anybody could prove Tomlin ordered or even suggested that he should be suspended.

WSS

[VaporTrail]

Minkah Fitzpatrick did nothing wrong. It was a football play with both players laying their bodies on the line. 

1 - This type of tackle is a consequence of the league heavily penalizing and disincentivizing helmet-to-helmet contact
2 - It's Nick fuckin Chubb dragging a Steeler downfield toward another first down. What else is Fitzpatrick supposed to do there? Hit him more gently? That hit was more of desperation than malice, if you ask me. 

Can't wait for this hit to be used to justify more rule changes that further neuter the defense. If you really think this is a dirty hit, how should the NFL amend the rules to prevent this? 

[Browns149]

I also don’t think it was dirty, but given the stoolers history, I can see why people think it is

[Westside Steve]

52 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Minkah Fitzpatrick did nothing wrong. It was a football play with both players laying their bodies on the line. 

1 - This type of tackle is a consequence of the league heavily penalizing and disincentivizing helmet-to-helmet contact
2 - It's Nick fuckin Chubb dragging a Steeler downfield toward another first down. What else is Fitzpatrick supposed to do there? Hit him more gently? That hit was more of desperation than malice, if you ask me. 

Can't wait for this hit to be used to justify more rule changes that further neuter the defense. If you really think this is a dirty hit, how should the NFL amend the rules to prevent this? 

They are printing velcro flags for the hip as we speak.

WSS

[Bob806]

48 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Minkah Fitzpatrick did nothing wrong. It was a football play with both players laying their bodies on the line. 

1 - This type of tackle is a consequence of the league heavily penalizing and disincentivizing helmet-to-helmet contact
2 - It's Nick fuckin Chubb dragging a Steeler downfield toward another first down. What else is Fitzpatrick supposed to do there? Hit him more gently? That hit was more of desperation than malice, if you ask me. 

Can't wait for this hit to be used to justify more rule changes that further neuter the defense. If you really think this is a dirty hit, how should the NFL amend the rules to prevent this? 

I don't think it was intentionally trying to hurt him, but holy crap he left his feet and dove right in low with the shoulder, while he was in the grasp fighting for more yards.

I do feel bad for defenders. They're in a no-win situation with all these rule changes.

[Neo]

57 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

I do feel bad for defenders.

I don't. They have been training since they where little kids to play this game. They need to use better judgement when going in for a tackle like that. Chubb was wrapped up and was vulnerable to a hit. He also lead with the crown of his helmet which is supposed to be a no-no is it not? He clearly put his helmet on Chubb's knee and according to NFL rules it's a foul. He should be fined at the very least. Where are we today as a society that we have a piece of footage that clearly shows what happened yet we still can't come to an agreement? (I'm not talking about you specifically by the way)

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-quietly-tweaked-lowering-of-helmet-rule-for-2022

[Neo]

If you watch the video, I totally agree with Simms what he says about what happened.

https://www.nbcsports.com/watch/nfl/profootballtalk/chubb-out-for-year-with-significant-knee-injury

[Bob806]

24 minutes ago, Neo said:

I don't. They have been training since they where little kids to play this game. They need to use better judgement when going in for a tackle like that. Chubb was wrapped up and was vulnerable to a hit. He also lead with the crown of his helmet which is supposed to be a no-no is it not? He clearly put his helmet on Chubb's knee and according to NFL rules it's a foul. He should be fined at the very least. Where are we today as a society that we have a piece of footage that clearly shows what happened yet we still can't come to an agreement? (I'm not talking about you specifically by the way)

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-quietly-tweaked-lowering-of-helmet-rule-for-2022

https://fb.watch/n9OR6gb990/?mibextid=NnVzG8&startTimeMs=5221

Looked like he lead with the shoulder. 

I don't think Minkah is known for dirty play. But yeah, this clip is disturbing.

[Orion]

The RB is one of the last entities that are pretty much subjected to old school football.  They're not protected like a QB or a WR.

If you've got a son who wants to play RB (like I did...because of Jim Brown) convince him to be a LB'er (or a safety).

[Jax]

I thought it was dirty. I don't play football for a career and I can tell you I know better than to launch myself into the front of someones knees while he's dragging weight like that. He could have easily went mid section.

I'm not sure when but a couple possessions later Watson threw over the middle, our receiver missed it but again Fitz flew in for a cheap shot while the receiver was extended and vulnerable(defenseless). I didn't hear anyone else mention but I noticed.

I know things happen but it looked intentional. Did Fitz offer a public apology that seemed sincere?

[Neo]

26 minutes ago, Jax said:

I thought it was dirty. I don't play football for a career and I can tell you I know better than to launch myself into the front of someones knees while he's dragging weight like that. He could have easily went mid section.

I'm not sure when but a couple possessions later Watson threw over the middle, our receiver missed it but again Fitz flew in for a cheap shot while the receiver was extended and vulnerable(defenseless). I didn't hear anyone else mention but I noticed.

I know things happen but it looked intentional. Did Fitz offer a public apology that seemed sincere?

Chris Simms - "What I don't love is that he's engaged with somebody else and the fact that Minkah Fitzpatrick goes low on him. I just didn't love that. I just didn't think it was necessary" 

Pretty much what I've been saying. These players have been doing this for years and they should know not to make that kind of hit. 

[Ibleedbrown]

I am all up in my feels over this. Anyone but Nick Chubb man. There is a tiny tiny percentage of athletes that l just love watching them play. It’s like poetry in motion. Add to it that he’s a great dude, the best dude. I’m so bummed. 

[VaporTrail]

13 minutes ago, Neo said:

Chris Simms - "What I don't love is that he's engaged with somebody else and the fact that Minkah Fitzpatrick goes low on him. I just didn't love that. I just didn't think it was necessary" 

Pretty much what I've been saying. These players have been doing this for years and they should know not to make that kind of hit. 

Hindsight is 20/20. The tradeoff of going low for a hit like this is that you might get yourself injured by a thigh/knee that's moving at full sprint. Chubb had forward momentum and Minkah put a stop to it - now they're both injured. Go find me a commentator who played defense who's calling out the hit as dirty. I think McCourty's got this one right. 

 

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I am all up in my feels over this. Anyone but Nick Chubb man. There is a tiny tiny percentage of athletes that l just love watching them play. It’s like poetry in motion. Add to it that he’s a great dude, the best dude. I’m so bummed. 

Absolutely. 

I own two Browns jerseys, both Nick Chubbs. I was thinking about him today and I've been following this team since the end of the Rutigliano years, and I think Nick Chubb might be the most universally liked and respected Browns player I've ever seen, maybe even more than Bernie or Joe Thomas, or at least at their level. 

I have a feeling this game is going to stick with us, and perhaps the team, for weeks. 

[jbluhm86]

31 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

...I own two Browns jerseys, both Nick Chubbs. I was thinking about him today and I've been following this team since the end of the Rutigliano years, and I think Nick Chubb might be the most universally liked and respected Browns player I've ever seen, maybe even more than Bernie or Joe Thomas, or at least at their level. 

You're lucky that you got to experience the original Browns team. I signed on after they came back and the number of players from this era that I'd even consider buying a jersey of is slim:

- Joe Thomas

- Nick Chubb

- Myles Garrett

- Josh Cribbs

- Phil Dawson 

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

You're lucky that you got to experience the original Browns team. I signed on after they came back and the number of players from this era that I'd even consider buying a jersey of is slim:

- Joe Thomas

- Nick Chubb

- Myles Garrett

- Josh Cribbs

- Phil Dawson 

Seriously, hats off to you and any of Browns fans that started following this team from 1999 on. 

At least I somewhat remember when they were a legit NFL franchise, or as legit as one owned by Art Modell could be.

[Dutch Oven]

Another RB I wouldn't mind the Browns grabbing is former Ohio State Buckeye Trey Sermon, who I believe is on the Eagles practice squad. 

[Axe]

Cam Akers?

[Orion]

I'd just bite the bullet and call up Hunt.  He'd be up to speed with any new offensive wrinkles in no time flat.  He knows the team, building, area, etc.  

[syd]

Just now, Orion said:

I'd just bite the bullet and call up Hunt.  He'd be up to speed with any new offensive wrinkles in no time flat.  He knows the team, building, area, etc.  

he has already been in town for a visit.john kelly jr. remember him ?

[Orion]

1 minute ago, syd said:

he has already been in town for a visit.john kelly jr. remember him ?

Syd, Kelly is not the answer.  He's been around a while now and they still bring in other backs.  They see him as an emergency situation guy only.  IMO

-----

I want to add to the sentiment of love for Chubb in this thread.  He's been my favorite Brown since experiencing his first season.  He makes beautiful slide-moves, he's got a great burst of speed and is a fast runner.  If he gets past you, you ain't catchin' him.  He's Powerful.  And without a Show-boat bone in his body he'll just toss the ball to the official.  -  Perfection  -      It's sad how we just can't have anything nice.    I feel bad that he has to endure this pain...for us.  And I hope he's made well, with God speed.

 

[Jax]

14 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

Hindsight is 20/20. The tradeoff of going low for a hit like this is that you might get yourself injured by a thigh/knee that's moving at full sprint. Chubb had forward momentum and Minkah put a stop to it - now they're both injured. Go find me a commentator who played defense who's calling out the hit as dirty. I think McCourty's got this one right. 

 

I doubt Fitz was worried about himself getting hurt and getting hurt being dirty doesn't excuse him.

Posting a biased opinion from a Steeler commentator no matter who he has on doesn't mean much.

He didn't just go low, he went straight at his knees while he was carrying a load, huge difference compared to going low on a speeding back coming at you in an open field.

[VaporTrail]

6 hours ago, Jax said:

I doubt Fitz was worried about himself getting hurt and getting hurt being dirty doesn't excuse him.

Posting a biased opinion from a Steeler commentator no matter who he has on doesn't mean much.

He didn't just go low, he went straight at his knees while he was carrying a load, huge difference compared to going low on a speeding back coming at you in an open field.

Jason McCourty is actually a former Cleveland Brown and never played for the Steelers. 

[tiamat63]

19 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Jason McCourty is actually a former Cleveland Brown and never played for the Steelers. 

You'll have to excuse that particular poster. I had never seen the name before up here, looks like a poli board troll when you check the account.   

 

 

Now to follow that (but not at you, Vape), as a question at all of you...   Does anyone here believe TJ Ward was an intentionally malicious player looking to end careers?

Because I posed that (rhetorical) question in my thread...  this is probably as good as a place to do so.  

 

This is TJ ending Gronks season, and could have been his career, early.  

 

 

 

 

It was a low hit, but I know what TJ was trying to do.  He a 5'10 200lb DB trying to separate the ball from a HoF TE who is 6'5 260lbs.     

This was TJ with Denver having a more clean tackle angle on Gronk who wasn't full speed down the seam.

 

 

 

No extra commentary from Gronk himself.  Because he understood TJ wasn't being intentionally dirty when his knee went out the previous season.

 

TJ's commentary afterwards.  

https://www.nfl.com/news/t-j-ward-hit-on-patriots-rob-gronkowski-was-legal-0ap2000000295541

 

Naturally, Patriots fans screamed "DIRTY" at the top of their lungs.  Just like most people are doing here.   

 

I know most of you have never played DB, or at all for that matter, so I'd say maybe put aside the cult level think and wonder why no other former or current NFL players are all over twitter calling this dirty?   It isn't.  Bad form, a bit weak and a touch desperate (Let's be real, have you see DB's panic in the open field against Nick? Because I have) But I remembered watching TJ on his debut because our safety situation was SO damn bad back then.  Plus I liked his game when he was at Oregon.   I remember him cutting down a backside bounce on a strength gap run, and then on a TE screen as well.

Thank God Youtube still has this sort of thing.

 

 

First play is at 34 seconds on the backside bounce, the second play is at 1:16 mark.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 You go into the top of the thigh pad, at an angle, heads up and generally you'll get two things -  The first being somebody trying to lower their leverage, and you'll still be lower than them.  Secondly, the top of your hat should hit the ball while you take their ability to generate any more forward momentum by having the ball carrier off his feet.   Taking the tires off, plain and simple.

 

 I'm wasting my time, and yes I know the history behind the Steelers. And yes, I do believe Harrison flirted the line between intense and dirty... often the latter.     But there was zero intention of hurting Nick here.    It's not possible for us to claim he is universally respected, including by Coach Tomlin, who calls him "Mr. Chubb" by the way, and then believe there is some grand conspiracy.      Was it good football? No.  Was it dirty? Also no.    Both can, and sadly are, very true.          We're all hurting for Nick.   To many of us, he embodies what we feel Browns football is.     But let's pull some heads out of asses here and think for a moment.  

 

 

[Jax]

6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

You'll have to excuse that particular poster. I had never seen the name before up here, looks like a poli board troll when you check the account.   

 

 

Now to follow that (but not at you, Vape), as a question at all of you...   Does anyone here believe TJ Ward was an intentionally malicious player looking to end careers?

Because I posed that (rhetorical) question in my thread...  this is probably as good as a place to do so.  

 

This is TJ ending Gronks season, and could have been his career, early.  

 

 

 

 

It was a low hit, but I know what TJ was trying to do.  He a 5'10 200lb DB trying to separate the ball from a HoF TE who is 6'5 260lbs.     

This was TJ with Denver having a more clean tackle angle on Gronk who wasn't full speed down the seam.

 

 

 

No extra commentary from Gronk himself.  Because he understood TJ wasn't being intentionally dirty when his knee went out the previous season.

 

TJ's commentary afterwards.  

https://www.nfl.com/news/t-j-ward-hit-on-patriots-rob-gronkowski-was-legal-0ap2000000295541

 

Naturally, Patriots fans screamed "DIRTY" at the top of their lungs.  Just like most people are doing here.   

 

I know most of you have never played DB, or at all for that matter, so I'd say maybe put aside the cult level think and wonder why no other former or current NFL players are all over twitter calling this dirty?   It isn't.  Bad form, a bit weak and a touch desperate (Let's be real, have you see DB's panic in the open field against Nick? Because I have) But I remembered watching TJ on his debut because our safety situation was SO damn bad back then.  Plus I liked his game when he was at Oregon.   I remember him cutting down a backside bounce on a strength gap run, and then on a TE screen as well.

Thank God Youtube still has this sort of thing.

 

 

First play is at 34 seconds on the backside bounce, the second play is at 1:16 mark.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 You go into the top of the thigh pad, at an angle, heads up and generally you'll get two things -  The first being somebody trying to lower their leverage, and you'll still be lower than them.  Secondly, the top of your hat should hit the ball while you take their ability to generate any more forward momentum by having the ball carrier off his feet.   Taking the tires off, plain and simple.

 

 I'm wasting my time, and yes I know the history behind the Steelers. And yes, I do believe Harrison flirted the line between intense and dirty... often the latter.     But there was zero intention of hurting Nick here.    It's not possible for us to claim he is universally respected, including by Coach Tomlin, who calls him "Mr. Chubb" by the way, and then believe there is some grand conspiracy.      Was it good football? No.  Was it dirty? Also no.    Both can, and sadly are, very true.          We're all hurting for Nick.   To many of us, he embodies what we feel Browns football is.     But let's pull some heads out of asses here and think for a moment.  

 

 

I'm a troll because I have a different opinion? Sounds like you're the one with a crappy attitude.

Commentator was wearing a Steeler shirt and most people say things not to upset people, opinions aren't always genuine on there. I can see with my own eyes what happened. Looked cheap is all and no one not even Stefanski is going to tell me otherwise. If Fitz comes out and goes into detail then I may think differently. You guys want to look to commentators so you know what to think even though you seen it happen with your own eyes, have at it.

Thanks for the video, looked exactly like what I was saying. In the open field it's different than when someone is about to go down with someone all over his back weighing him down. Also, trying to end someones career and just making a dirty hit are 2 different things, he didn't have to hit him in the knees and unfortunately he probably wasn't smart enough to realize the consequences that would follow. I'm all for good hits, just not petty cheap ones.

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:00 PM, Neo said:

I just watched that video about 5 or 6 times and I can't see how that wasn't dirty. 55 is pulling him down and forwards while Fitzpatrick is going for his legs. I mean really? Is this even a debate?

The Steelers have always been over the top aggressive. If you want to call it dirty I am okay with that, but I also think their team culture engrains hitting until you can't hit any more. Njoku had a crucial first down, but a punch at the end of the play changed our fortune.

I hate these motherfuckers but they are too aggressive for Stefanski. The Steelers even rough the Browns up when they lose to them.

Fair or not, they fucked Chubb up. I would be willing to bet out of the review of the camera, they laughed their asses off over this. 

They are nasty motherfuckers and Stefanski plays them like he wants to blow them

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:56 PM, Westside Steve said:

The helmet tells the story in my opinion. And if anybody could prove Tomlin ordered or even suggested that he should be suspended.

WSS

Steve, the Steelers have done this kind shit over and over. The NFL never calls them.out on it

[Westside Steve]

https://www.on3.com/pro/news/nick-chubb-may-need-two-surgeries-to-address-knee-injury-per-report/