Orion Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 On 1/23/2024 at 7:30 PM, gumby73 said: Signed Elsewhere WR Austin Watkins - Signed with the Eagles. Watkins had the choice to return to Cleveland but chose a different direction CB AJ Green III - Signed with the Vikings. Played four seasons and 34 games with the team: Sorry to see AJ Green go. He was someone that you could pull off the shelf and put out there on the field and play your normal defenses. Sorry to see Watkins go too...but obviously he wasn't going to play here. Our WR situation got pretty bad at season's end and he still couldn't get on the field. I hear that we offered him a futures contract but he decided to go elsewhere. I can't say that I blame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 11 hours ago, Orion said: Sorry to see AJ Green go. He was someone that you could pull off the shelf and put out there on the field and play your normal defenses. Sorry to see Watkins go too...but obviously he wasn't going to play here. Our WR situation got pretty bad at season's end and he still couldn't get on the field. I hear that we offered him a futures contract but he decided to go elsewhere. I can't say that I blame him. Hard to believe WR Austin Watkins only saw 1 activation up from PS, after what we saw in preseason. Berry/Haslam paid UDFA AJ Green the highest bonus of 145k to sign in 2020. 100k to Watkins to stay AJ Green playing in 34 games in 4 years in this NFL CB pricey market? Career Earnings: $3,177,615 https://overthecap.com/player/a-j-green/9255 (click history) Contract Ranking: 271/289 at CB pay in 2023 Good luck, AJ Green.... Job well done as a Brown ! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Tee Higgins to the Browns? Deshaun Watson sure hopes so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 I do not agree with any of this, Except maybe Akins it all depends on what we do with Harrison Contracts Browns Must Consider Cutting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 On 1/14/2024 at 10:37 AM, gumby73 said: Morning, Welcome to 13M over the cap without signing any FA on above list.. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns Browns 2024 FA's.. https://overthecap.com/free-agency/cleveland-browns Not certain we can obtain D. Smith at 11M, when Obo was playing healthy AB needs to get his stubborn head on the Inside Mike Linebacker market. Paying punters off the street more $$ than Walker to retain Tickie Taki for more? Fold your tent & move on Berry.. JOK needs a new ball hawking partner Match offer sheets to retain K. Hunt & Mo Hurst *M. Dunn vs Wypler S. Harris vs J. Elliott Again Berry's guardrails, don't like to pay backup depth FA $$ so no silver bullet answers from this post These are some random thoughts. The Browns BIGGEST challenge seems be what they are paying to guys that are rarely healthy. Here's a few examples: 1.) Anthony Walker - love the leadership, experience and consistency when he does play. However, he only had 3 starts in 2022 - and it sure felt like he missed more games than he started in 2023. Seems like I'm more attracted to the IDEA of him than the REALITY of paying him to watch someone else play his position. 2.) Jack Conklin - When healthy - there isn't a better run blocking RT and he's a reliable pass protector as well. Key word in that sentence is WHEN. WHEN we can't ever get/keep him on the field - I'm only attracted to the IDEA of him. The Browns gave him a generous raise/extension going into last season. 3.) Denzel Ward - Luckily, he only misses a few games a year so far so he doesn't totally fit the same concern as the 2 guys above. That said, he's an elite corner so he's not cheap. When he doesn't play, think back to the Denver game with Ward inactive - promoting Newsome to #1 corner covering Sutton. I had bulimia watching that. I'm not ready to hope we give up on Ward - I'm just worrying out loud about age/wear and tear increasing the missed games each year moving forward. If you have a Revis Island out there - you don't want post the sign "Sorry Revis Island is closed again - check back with us in a couple weeks." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Flugel said: These are some random thoughts. The Browns BIGGEST challenge seems be what they are paying to guys that are rarely healthy. Here's a few examples: 1.) Anthony Walker - love the leadership, experience and consistency when he does play. However, he only had 3 starts in 2022 - and it sure felt like he missed more games than he started in 2023. Seems like I'm more attracted to the IDEA of him than the REALITY of paying him to watch someone else play his position. 2.) Jack Conklin - When healthy - there isn't a better run blocking RT and he's a reliable pass protector as well. Key word in that sentence is WHEN. WHEN we can't ever get/keep him on the field - I'm only attracted to the IDEA of him. The Browns gave him a generous raise/extension going into last season. 3.) Denzel Ward - Luckily, he only misses a few games a year so far so he doesn't totally fit the same concern as the 2 guys above. That said, he's an elite corner so he's not cheap. When he doesn't play, think back to the Denver game with Ward inactive - promoting Newsome to #1 corner covering Sutton. I had bulimia watching that. I'm not ready to hope we give up on Ward - I'm just worrying out loud about age/wear and tear increasing the missed games each year moving forward. If you have a Revis Island out there - you don't want post the sign "Sorry Revis Island is closed again - check back with us in a couple weeks." Add Deshaun Watson to that list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, nickers said: Add Deshaun Watson to that list He was only injured this season after winning 5 of 6 starts. I'm talking about injuries (plural). In Houston he was durable. It's up to the Browns to perpetuate that, losing BOTH starting Tackles and the backup RT has a way of making a team need to use 5 different QBs (Watson, DTR, Walker, Flacco, Driskel). If he could stay healthy in Houston - it shouldn't be impossible in Cleveland if the FO gave up what they gave up to bring him here. In saying all that, I'm not gonna sit here and debate Watson with you. Trust me, I've already been well informed by you that you hate him and hope he fails. If he gets hurt again next year, I'll add him to the list. Back to the discussion, let me know if you think there's any other guys that won't play enough football to justify their big cap hit next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Flugel said: These are some random thoughts. The Browns BIGGEST challenge seems be what they are paying to guys that are rarely healthy. Here's a few examples: 1.) Anthony Walker - love the leadership, experience and consistency when he does play. However, he only had 3 starts in 2022 - and it sure felt like he missed more games than he started in 2023. Seems like I'm more attracted to the IDEA of him than the REALITY of paying him to watch someone else play his position. 2.) Jack Conklin - When healthy - there isn't a better run blocking RT and he's a reliable pass protector as well. Key word in that sentence is WHEN. WHEN we can't ever get/keep him on the field - I'm only attracted to the IDEA of him. The Browns gave him a generous raise/extension going into last season. 3.) Denzel Ward - Luckily, he only misses a few games a year so far so he doesn't totally fit the same concern as the 2 guys above. That said, he's an elite corner so he's not cheap. When he doesn't play, think back to the Denver game with Ward inactive - promoting Newsome to #1 corner covering Sutton. I had bulimia watching that. I'm not ready to hope we give up on Ward - I'm just worrying out loud about age/wear and tear increasing the missed games each year moving forward. If you have a Revis Island out there - you don't want post the sign "Sorry Revis Island is closed again - check back with us in a couple weeks." I'd have to put more time into this list than feasting on Senior Bowl practices at this time.. 3) We're not replacing Ward nor Newsome without any 1st round picks. Replace Ward with paying Jed Will's 5th year option, for the time being Trade Will's 5th, to the needed Panthers or Jets for higher pick 2) Maybe wrong? But Conkin fit's #1 & believe his contract has 1 year left? 1) Paying Anthony Walker's mini contracts don't really bother me.. I just think his knee's aren't worth the risk anymore I may find 3 at combine tampering period to cut loose 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 28 minutes ago, Flugel said: He was only injured this season after winning 5 of 6 starts. I'm talking about injuries (plural). In Houston he was durable. It's up to the Browns to perpetuate that, losing BOTH starting Tackles and the backup RT has a way of making a team need to use 5 different QBs (Watson, DTR, Walker, Flacco, Driskel). If he could stay healthy in Houston - it shouldn't be impossible in Cleveland if the FO gave up what they gave up to bring him here. In saying all that, I'm not gonna sit here and debate Watson with you. Trust me, I've already been well informed by you that you hate him and hope he fails. If he gets hurt again next year, I'll add him to the list. Back to the discussion, let me know if you think there's any other guys that won't play enough football to justify their big cap hit next year. Well Im not just talking injury time... I'm talking total missed time.. You know that thing about availibility is all I'm saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, gumby73 said: 1) Paying Anthony Walker's mini contracts don't really bother me.. I just think his knee's aren't worth the risk anymore I may find 3 at combine tampering period to cut loose 🤣 This is a concern for me, actually for a long time. I have no beef with Anthony Walker, or frankly any of the LBs. BUT- in this pass-happy, spread-type era of offense, it's pretty obvious the Browns value DBs over LBs. Makes sense, however I still think the Browns need a difference maker at LB to add to JOK. Takitaki & Walker seem to get lost at times, under Woods & Schwartz.....is it instincts or scheme? I honestly don't know. The Ratbirds have Roquan Smith & Patrick Queen. Pretty good combo right there. My opinion is the Browns have been weak at LB since 1994. You can't rely on DBs to make all the tackles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 24 minutes ago, Bob806 said: The Ratbirds have Roquan Smith & Patrick Queen. Pretty good combo right there. My opinion is the Browns have been weak at LB since 1994. You can't rely on DBs to make all the tackles. This ^^ Look at the final 4 teams that got in..👀 Schwartz needs to get Berry to rethink it at the position 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, Bob806 said: This is a concern for me, actually for a long time. I have no beef with Anthony Walker, or frankly any of the LBs. BUT- in this pass-happy, spread-type era of offense, it's pretty obvious the Browns value DBs over LBs. Makes sense, however I still think the Browns need a difference maker at LB to add to JOK. Takitaki & Walker seem to get lost at times, under Woods & Schwartz.....is it instincts or scheme? I honestly don't know. The Ratbirds have Roquan Smith & Patrick Queen. Pretty good combo right there. My opinion is the Browns have been weak at LB since 1994. You can't rely on DBs to make all the tackles. Yet the Browns still keep getting smoked over the middle at times... Or on the outside intermediate hitch routes... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 17 minutes ago, nickers said: Yet the Browns still keep getting smoked over the middle at times... Or on the outside intermediate hitch routes... True, but remember the offense has an advantage at all times. Good QBs can/will audible. I thought the Browns did a much better job on 3rd downs this season, but there's always room for improvement. I'd prioritize the LB position this off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 9 minutes ago, Bob806 said: True, but remember the offense has an advantage at all times. Good QBs can/will audible. I thought the Browns did a much better job on 3rd downs this season, but there's always room for improvement. I'd prioritize the LB position this off season. Agree and Agree! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 6 hours ago, gumby73 said: I'd have to put more time into this list than feasting on Senior Bowl practices at this time.. 3) We're not replacing Ward nor Newsome without any 1st round picks. Replace Ward with paying Jed Will's 5th year option, for the time being Trade Will's 5th, to the needed Panthers or Jets for higher pick 2) Maybe wrong? But Conkin fit's #1 & believe his contract has 1 year left? 1) Paying Anthony Walker's mini contracts don't really bother me.. I just think his knee's aren't worth the risk anymore I may find 3 at combine tampering period to cut loose 🤣 I didn't say I wanted to replace Ward. I thought I carefully worded that but I was in a hurry so maybe it was sloppy. I was thinking outloud and when he misses games to injury - the dynamics change significantly. That's why I brought up the Denver passing game charcoal broiling Newsome with Sutton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 52 minutes ago, Flugel said: I didn't say I wanted to replace Ward. I thought I carefully worded that but I was in a hurry so maybe it was sloppy. I was thinking outloud and when he misses games to injury - the dynamics change significantly. That's why I brought up the Denver passing game charcoal broiling Newsome with Sutton. All good Flug, D. Ward certainly has had some tough injury luck. maybe to add to what Mudfly posted about losing 1st & 2nd round draft picks how many games, have browns GM's paid players, in missed games with the higher draft picks since 2017 ? 1 Myles Garrett 2 Nick Chubb 1 Denzel Ward 1 Baker Mayfield 3 Sione Takitaki 2 Grant Delpit 1 Jedrick Wills Jr. 1 Greg Newsome II 4 Dawand Jones Add D. Watson & it's hard to image this team was still a AFC playoff 5 seed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 Forkjosborn!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 8 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said: Forkjosborn!!! 😆 I can't even pronounce that before a tailgate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 I think the issue with the LB's on our roster has more to do with unrealistic hopium expectations clashing with the reality of their individual limitations. The pre-draft athletic weaknesses of Walker and Taki are proving to be completely correct. Those two guys couldn't cover in space before the draft -- voila, they still can't do it today. I think the problem lies with anyone who let themselves think We Would Be Fine with them in any large role. Walker was a rd5 pick for good reason, and note that Taki was projected the same or lower. These same concerns were visible before the 2023 draft, and instead of addressing them with player(s), we ran it back in the 2023 season. Hopefully LB gets dealt with before 2024. The issue with Wills likely is that a replacement isn't coming until 2025.. I wonder if the round2 this year we likely could get for him will prove to be better than the round 1 or 2 we could get for him in the future after signing the new contract. The issue to me is more that Conklin's knee could lead to retirement rather than multiple solid seasons of play.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 On 1/14/2024 at 10:37 AM, gumby73 said: Morning, Welcome to 13M over the cap without signing any FA on above list.. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns Browns 2024 FA's.. https://overthecap.com/free-agency/cleveland-browns Not certain we can obtain D. Smith at 11M, when Obo was playing healthy AB needs to get his stubborn head on the Inside Mike Linebacker market. Paying punters off the street more $$ than Walker to retain Tickie Taki for more? Fold your tent & move on Berry.. JOK needs a new ball hawking partner Match offer sheets to retain K. Hunt & Mo Hurst *M. Dunn vs Wypler S. Harris vs J. Elliott Again Berry's guardrails, don't like to pay backup depth FA $$ so no silver bullet answers from this post I'll cover the OL some in this post. Sooner or later, it's going to come down to how well the FO drafts people on those rookie salary restricted contracts (w/ a length of 4-5 years). Before this year, the only starter Berry drafted on the OL was an unjustified 10th overall pick in hindsight 20/20. Before people complain that he played RT in college - so did another tackle in his draft class (Tristan Wirfs) who has played very well at right and left tackle for the Bucs. Did our scouting staff do their due diligence researching Wirfs at all? He had a killer good work ethic according to his HC Kirk Ferentz at Iowa (formerly the Browns OL Coach for BB in the early 90s). I think Wypler is competing with Nick Harris (whose best position seems to be FB). Wypler has the salary cap friendly rookie contract while Harris is a UFA. Wypler can play Guard or Center; and it's not out of the realm he could play side by side with a college teammate Dawand Jones. Not only that, but if these guys become productive fulltime starters as 4th and 6th round draft picks - that makes for some real good cap health from 2 of the 5 starting OL. Before this year, the only starter Berry drafted on the OL was an unjustified 10th overall pick in hindsight 20/20. Before people complain that he played RT in college - so my point about Tristan Wirfs above. Dunn can play Center, Guard or Tackle; and I haven't seen that type of flexibility since Paul Farren back in the 80s. I hope they can keep him given the age of Bitonio and the reality that Teller will be getting some attractive offers. He filled in for Bitonio in our victory over SF. He's also played well here filling in for injured starters in recent years. If we lose Teller to FA, he's the guy with the most experience filling in as starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Head start into Browns 2024 off season In this daily series (every position FA completed) we will look at all of the 633 unrestricted free agents that are set to hit the market on the 11th March at noon ET, this is when teams can begin negotiating with them. Despite this, many deals will be negotiated before that time, with the combine seen as the kick off of the unofficial tampering period. There will be some that don't make it there due to either being franchise tagged before the 4pm ET deadline on the 5th March or being extended by their current team. Pending FA's positions Quarterbacks, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, Tight Ends, Tackles, Guards, Centers, Edges, Defensive Tackles, Linebackers, Cornerbacks & Safeties. Final article here includes Safeties https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/cleveland-browns-free-agency-preview-starting-safeties-227012418/#2363767 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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