Senior Bowl

[gumby73]

I'll admit I have a sick habit. Xmas the wife gift's me a gift worded "your sick habit"  Inside are always 3 simple white tablets, to note Shrine/Senior Bowl prospects,Combine thru FA's & Roster moves.. Dawgs, I'm already 4 pages in, from taking time off work at start of the Senior Bowl Practices..  I'm a NFL sick puppy !

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

a.) Back to McConkey, it would be nice if he fell to us.  I see a more stout version of Brian Brennan but just as quick and agile (coming off nagging injuries at the end of the season). Early projections show upper half of round 2 while he has the next couple months to improve upon that.

b.) Is it possible to get immediate help at Left Tackle where we're drafting in round 2?   My guess is he'll have to have imperfections in spite of productivity on film or come from smaller school.  

a.) McConkey came to the SB wanting to prove to scouts/GM that his Back & Ankle injuries are recovering. His medicals from SB to Combine med checks are a thing to watch.

can't seperate McConkey from Roman Wilson at this point. Measureables are the same dude's in size. Put'em on the Combine Track. Both show Good Routes/ Good Hands

b.) I'm not buying into Guyton or Patrick Paul fixing anything as our 2nd round pick. Hoping, better names at other needed positions in DL/WR/LB might look better. BYU LT Kingsley Suamataia  & Patrick Paul fall closest to our 2nd rounder in most. Tackle value should be found in 3rd or 4th. Movers up finding tape on are Texas-Christian Jones/ Washington-Rodger Rosengardner/ Missouri- Javon Foster

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I've said from the beginning he gets open and catches plus returns both punts and ko's. He could save us a couple of positions in that triple role and not go fumbling the ball like we have seen so many times. Plus who was throwing to him? We were down to 4th string QBs and lost the guy who used him best right from jump street. Too bad A&M couldn't sign up a 38 y.o. has been.  LOL!😁 I'm tellin' ya now, somebody will get a steal if the Browns pass him by in the 3rd.

 I've watched 3 games of tape on Smith 2 weeks ago..Your right.. Your QB , nor these at the SB, can put the ball on him moving.. stay tuned  

 

 

[gumby73]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:32 AM, gumby73 said:

RB & TE.. There are options to replace our RB3 (Strong) &/or TE2 Harrison Bryant in this draft class. 

Liking the options we can find more & more with pair of picks in 5th & 6th rounders.. ^^

These QB's are masters of check downs to RB's/TE's that catch it... Keep working on that comeback Chubby

TCU

Emani

Bailey

RB

Kareem Hunt'ish flashbacks to open game  

Good thing we're not looking for none of these QB's ! WoW.. can't squint hard enough 

 

 Bama PK Will Reichard 👀 57 yarder, clangs right goalpost halfway up.. That redneck's got a 5th round kicking leg. 

 

Halftime-- 7 - 7

edit-- National 16  American 7    Final

 

[syd]

4 hours ago, gumby73 said:

I'll admit I have a sick habit. Xmas the wife gift's me a gift worded "your sick habit"  Inside are always 3 simple white tablets, to note Shrine/Senior Bowl prospects,Combine thru FA's & Roster moves.. Dawgs, I'm already 4 pages in, from taking time off work at start of the Senior Bowl Practices..  I'm a NFL sick puppy !

a.) McConkey came to the SB wanting to prove to scouts/GM that his Back & Ankle injuries are recovering. His medicals from SB to Combine med checks are a thing to watch.

can't seperate McConkey from Roman Wilson at this point. Measureables are the same dude's in size. Put'em on the Combine Track. Both show Good Routes/ Good Hands

b.) I'm not buying into Guyton or Patrick Paul fixing anything as our 2nd round pick. Hoping, better names at other needed positions in DL/WR/LB might look better. BYU LT Kingsley Suamataia  & Patrick Paul fall closest to our 2nd rounder in most. Tackle value should be found in 3rd or 4th. Movers up finding tape on are Texas-Christian Jones/ Washington-Rodger Rosengardner/ Missouri- Javon Foster

 I've watched 3 games of tape on Smith 2 weeks ago..Your right.. Your QB , nor these at the SB, can put the ball on him moving.. stay tuned  

 

 

I all way's subscribed to the notion that you draft to your strongest position group, Which in are case is the O-LINE. Instead of reaching for a different position.

[syd]

51 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Liking the options we can find more & more with pair of picks in 5th & 6th rounders.. ^^

These QB's are masters of check downs to RB's/TE's that catch it... Keep working on that comeback Chubby

TCU

Emani

Bailey

RB

Kareem Hunt'ish flashbacks to open game  

Good thing we're not looking for none of these QB's ! WoW.. can't squint hard enough 

 

 Bama PK Will Reichard 👀 54 yarder clangs right goalpost halfway up.. That redneck's got a 5th round kicking leg. 

 

Halftime-- 7 - 7

 

We also need to protect are biggest investment DeShaun Watson. I would move Conklin to left tackle and Groom Guyton as his replacement. As for Wills ? I dunno ? is he rostered for past next year ? how much do we owe him ? 

edit: if Wills were to somehow stay. he could play swing tackle or just go back to his natural position as a back up right tackle. As for the money ? I am Banking on Guyton taking over and moving on from Conklin's contract

[syd]

I am good with this  O.T Baby

Browns attack the offensive line, wide receiver in 7-round 2024 NFL draft mock

[gumby73]

1 minute ago, syd said:

We also need to protect are biggest investment DeShaun Watson. I would move Conklin to left tackle and Groom Guyton as his replacement. As for Wills ? I dunno ? is he rostered for past next year ? how much do we owe him ? 

Wills paid/trade/play 5th year option will cost 14.5M   Conklin's cap number is 12M.. berry's got work to do   https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns

Wills & D.Jones feels safe.. Conklin might re-do contract again? I'd move on from Hudson & draft another   

[syd]

1 minute ago, gumby73 said:

Wills paid/trade/play 5th year option will cost 14.5M   Conklin's cap number is 12M.. berry's got work to do   https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns

Wills & D.Jones feels safe.. Conklin might re-do contract again? I'd move on from Hudson & draft another   

First thanks cause i had no idea. I guess it would depend on dead money but i would move on from wills and as mentioned above play Conklin at left untill the rook is ready to take over, then cut him also

[Orion]

3 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

I'd move on from Hudson & draft another 

We've got plenty of 3rd day picks.  Should be able to hit just about every position group.

[gumby73]

Here's where we ended..

 

Here's a idea ..

 

 

 

[gumby73]

Baldy, We too like high motor DT's like FSU's Braden Fiske & squatty Dt's of McKinley Jackson..

BUTT,

We also saw Berry get Taven Bryan & Marvin Wilson for the same reasons.. Careful what you ask for  🎱

[gumby73]

26 minutes ago, Orion said:

We've got plenty of 3rd day picks.  Should be able to hit just about every position group.

WR/DL/OT/LB Top Tier BPA, any order 

TE/RB/S bottom BPA 

but it just turned February

 

 

[syd]

34 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Baldy, We too like high motor DT's like FSU's Braden Fiske & squatty Dt's of McKinley Jackson..

BUTT,

We also saw Berry get Taven Bryan & Marvin Wilson for the same reasons.. Careful what you ask for  🎱

whose baldy ? who is we ?

[gumby73]

4 minutes ago, syd said:

whose baldy ? who is we ?

  nfl network anal' list Brian Baldinger .. We = Browns fans

no finger jokes.. cause I don't know how this is possible w/great health care systems

5 o'clock..  rum & coke time  😋

 

[syd]

2 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

  nfl network anal' list Brian Baldinger .. We = Browns fans

no finger jokes.. cause I don't know how this is possible w/great health care systems

5 o'clock..  rum & coke time  😋

 

aaaaahhh Baldy I all ways liked his breakdowns.

[AP1]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Here's where we ended..

 

Here's a idea ..

 

 

 

They've got to find a way to keep Wyatt Teller. 

[gumby73]

23 minutes ago, AP1 said:

They've got ti find a way to keep Wyatt Teller. 

Don't disagree.. Here's the thoughts from the writer

Bitonio is going to be a Cleveland Brown until he retires but when that will be no one knows. As an offensive lineman that needs to go every snap your career can quickly come to an end with one injury. So while the team won't put too much resources into preparing for the end they need to be aware it could happen at any time. Luckily Callahan has managed to produce above-average play out of numerous guards when injuries have hit so they should be able to stash someone on the practice squad or a phone call that can come in and be serviceable.

Teller seems destined for free agency this upcoming offseason. I don't expect anyone to trade for his nonguaranteed salary of $14m. They will need to make an early decision as he is due $2m on the 20th of March. Since he was linked in trade discussions around the free agency period last year they aren't sure he provides the value to match his contract. Plus they can't realistically go into next season with all five offensive linemen on significant deals, he is the easiest to move on from financially alongside Bitonio.

With Teller gone I would expect them to make a move in free agency, someone in the $3-5m range would likely be the plan on a one to two-year deal so that they aren't going to drop a significant level of talent. With Callahan as a position coach, successful team and quality offensive line players will want to come to Cleveland to increase their value.

They have Forbes and Deaton as bodies but I don't expect either of them to be an answer to the issue, most likely people are kept around during camp so that they have three solid lines as they try and develop younger players that they add. Dunn will be another player who will explore free agency and if no one wants him then he is likely to return as injury depth, either on the practice squad or bottom of the roster.

The smart move would be to add a guard on day three of the draft, it isn't a position that tends to be drafted too highly so you add someone to develop. They can either replace the free agent after year one or be the player you groom to fill the shoes of Joel Bitonio one day.

 

Teller contract details here https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/wyatt-teller-25267/

[MLD Woody]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

He's a free agent, isn't he? 

Yeah but I mean I figured we resign him after a good year

[tiamat63]

On 2/2/2024 at 1:56 PM, MLD Woody said:

We're replacing Mo?

 

 Entirely possible.   He's a FA that was on a 1 year deal and couldn't finish the season healthy.  He had a very solid year, but being on the lookout for rotational pieces who can meaningfully contribute in certain roles comes with extra focus on cost.    

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 Entirely possible.   He's a FA that was on a 1 year deal and couldn't finish the season healthy.  He had a very solid year, but being on the lookout for rotational pieces who can meaningfully contribute in certain roles comes with extra focus on cost.    

To be fair, I'm assuming he recovered well. If he did, seems like an easy choice to resign

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, gumby73 said:

  nfl network anal' list Brian Baldinger .. We = Browns fans

no finger jokes.. cause I don't know how this is possible w/great health care systems

5 o'clock..  rum & coke time  😋

 

That, or he's trying to reach Mr Spock.   I'll never forget Baldinger's Smashing Pumpkins segment after the Browns ran Peyton Hillis down New England's esophagus.  It was all about the hat on the hat blocking he captured on film to show what made the smash-mouth from Hillis possible.  I like seeing football from the lens of an OL.

[Orion]

4 hours ago, gumby73 said:

With Callahan as a position coach, successful team and quality offensive line players will want to come to Cleveland to increase their value.

But isn't Callahan leaving?

[gumby73]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

But isn't Callahan leaving?

 Reports say yes  and

this Junkie saves & pastes, cap minds/thoughts from Oct. 2023 long articles.. 

Full every position opinion here  https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/predicting-the-cleveland-browns-2024-roster-216938648/#2253737

[tiamat63]

On 2/3/2024 at 10:42 AM, gumby73 said:

BYU LT Kingsley Suamataia    

 

 

 

 Trying to, in my limited time, focus on a small handful of position group.   OL, DL, maybe some LB.   

I keep seeing Kingsley's name brought up, and for a man his size, I have to give my early concerns after watching two of his games.   

- His hand work and striking sucks

- Need serious development on a proper kick step

 

 Without those two things, at the NFL level, he's going to be target practice.   I have more of him to watch, but the initial finders weren't ideal.  6'6 330lb is a lot of mass to move.  If you don't have good hand work to offset the heavy feet, we have problems.  

[gumby73]

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 I keep seeing Kingsley's name brought up, and for a man his size, I have to give my early concerns after watching two of his games.   

- His hand work and striking sucks

- Need serious development on a proper kick step

 Without those two things, at the NFL level, he's going to be target practice.  

That's King!  Watched 2.5 games.

You'd hope King would have half the punch & hands of his cousin P. Sewell has in pass pro..  Kingsley's game looked better as a run blocking weapon,imo. He seems to move fast for a big man.  into 2nd game of Arizona-- T Jordan Morgan . Easy to see why waltersfootball put Morgan just ahead of Kingsley. Morgan won't get to 50

Finding this T class has more experience at playing RT.

Looking at Pff--ND Alt// Penn St--Fashanu// Arizona--Morgan// Houston --Paul// Duke- Barton// Ore.St--Fautanu.. All played LT, 3 seasons in college 

[tiamat63]

12 hours ago, gumby73 said:

That's King!  Watched 2.5 games.

You'd hope King would have half the punch & hands of his cousin P. Sewell has in pass pro..  Kingsley's game looked better as a run blocking weapon,imo. 

 

That is also my concern, his blocking is mostly just being the bigger and stronger guy.  His feet can be quick enough, but his technique in both phases is poor. 

 

[Flugel]

On 2/4/2024 at 4:48 PM, tiamat63 said:

 

 Trying to, in my limited time, focus on a small handful of position group.   OL, DL, maybe some LB.   

I keep seeing Kingsley's name brought up, and for a man his size, I have to give my early concerns after watching two of his games.   

- His hand work and striking sucks

- Need serious development on a proper kick step

 

 Without those two things, at the NFL level, he's going to be target practice.   I have more of him to watch, but the initial finders weren't ideal.  6'6 330lb is a lot of mass to move.  If you don't have good hand work to offset the heavy feet, we have problems.  

Well said!  We already drafted a LT with those/similar issues.    The equivalent is like drafting a WR that can't catch or a LBer that can't tackle.  Why do that?  There's nothing worse than drafting a guy like Anthony Schwartz and hoping coaches can teach him how to catch and prozac the performance anxiety out of him.  When you ask your coaches to be miracle workers like that - you're not doing your due diligence in the film room with the draft prospects you're supposed to be evaluating.

When Andy Reid was walking off the field after his young LBer Nick Bolton made a huge play to help the Chiefs win a playoff game he was asked for his thoughts on it all.  His response via paraphrase here was "we drafted him because he was the best tackler the draft."  The depth of the statement wasn't just that he always makes ideal form tackles.  It was they watched enough film to see he could consistently make open field tackles in space; beat the point of attack to limit yards after contact to little to no gain; possess the instincts and preparation to always be on time to be in ideal position to make form tackles with his head up, etc.

My take:  People that are late are in a spastic hustle to get there often depriving themselves the ability to square up for the tackle as opposed to running by the ballcarrier with an arm tackle attempt at best. Anyway, stuff like this is why film study/evaluation is necessary.  It's how a team like KC nails a pick like Nick Bolton in round 2 while other teams just looking at stop watches and fitness tests draft a Bark Mingo in round 1 instead.   

[Dutch Oven]

38 minutes ago, Flugel said:

When Andy Reid was walking off the field after his young LBer Nick Bolton made a huge play to help the Chiefs win a playoff game he was asked for his thoughts on it all.  His response via paraphrase here was "we drafted him because he was the best tackler the draft."  The depth of the statement wasn't just that he always makes ideal form tackles.  It was they watched enough film to see he could consistently make open field tackles in space; beat the point of attack to limit yards after contact to little to no gain; possess the instincts and preparation to always be on time to be in ideal position to make form tackles with his head up, etc.

 

This reminds me of how much I liked Bolton coming into that draft. 

The list is long, but I'd love for the Browns to draft a physical presence to put next to JOK. Time to move on from Walker, and while I like Takitaki as a depth/special teams guy, we need a legit starter. 

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

Well said!  We already drafted a LT with those/similar issues.    The equivalent is like drafting a WR that can't catch or a LBer that can't tackle.  Why do that?  There's nothing worse than drafting a guy like Anthony Schwartz and hoping coaches can teach him how to catch and prozac the performance anxiety out of him.  When you ask your coaches to be miracle workers like that - you're not doing your due diligence in the film room with the draft prospects you're supposed to be evaluating.

When Andy Reid was walking off the field after his young LBer Nick Bolton made a huge play to help the Chiefs win a playoff game he was asked for his thoughts on it all.  His response via paraphrase here was "we drafted him because he was the best tackler the draft."  The depth of the statement wasn't just that he always makes ideal form tackles.  It was they watched enough film to see he could consistently make open field tackles in space; beat the point of attack to limit yards after contact to little to no gain; possess the instincts and preparation to always be on time to be in ideal position to make form tackles with his head up, etc.

My take:  People that are late are in a spastic hustle to get there often depriving themselves the ability to square up for the tackle as opposed to running by the ballcarrier with an arm tackle attempt at best. Anyway, stuff like this is why film study/evaluation is necessary.  It's how a team like KC nails a pick like Nick Bolton in round 2 while other teams just looking at stop watches and fitness tests draft a Bark Mingo in round 1 instead.   

You mean kind of like drafting a WR and a DE and not studying a running back who resembled Jim Brown in every way like size, speed, major stiff arm and tackle breaker all day long? Now I don't know how anyone could cough-hen-cough-ry miss like that.😆

[Flugel]

6 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You mean kind of like drafting a WR and a DE and not studying a running back who resembled Jim Brown in every way like size, speed, major stiff arm and tackle breaker all day long? Now I don't know how anyone could cough-hen-cough-ry miss like that.😆

😆 I still remember you talking about him before the draft.  Derrick Henry turned out to be quite the 2nd round pick for Tennessee; but the Jim Brown comparison is a little bit of a stretch. 

The RB the Browns drafted in round 2 Nick Chubb might be a better comparison to Jim Brown; since Chubb has actually averaged 5.3 yards per carry to Henry's 4.7 yards per carry in their NFL careers thus far.  

The 1 thing neither guy can compare to Jim Brown with is that Jim Brown never missed a game/start due to injury.