Westside Steve Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 This is mostly for you Woody but often you've gotten upset because you think that we think you consider Al Gore an expert. I don't think you consider him an expert. Nor do you consider Joe Biden or Barack Obama or John Kerry or any other politician and expert. But I think many politicians glean their positions from people they consider to be experts. And it does seem that you are more willing to take scientists Etc to task if they don't agree with what you see as a big problem in the world. (And that really has nothing to do with my opinion which is there's not much we can do and we wouldn't do it if there was.) WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Steve, you couldn't even post the full definition of a cult when all it took was you copy pasting the full Webster entry (more than likely on purpose to try and protect your posting buddies) Are we supposed to now "debate" what an expert is? Sounds like a giant waste of time. I'm not taking these "experts" to task because they disagree with me, I do it because they aren't experts. Or at the very least their expertise is being greatly inflated by a bunch of folks that have zero scientific knowledge in their body / have been completely politically brainwashed. The "Frontline Doctors" is an obvious example. They were full of fraud from the start. Easy to see. But we had posters on here so blinded by their political leanings they were ready to put some random strip mall urgent care demon believing doctor above trained contagious disease experts. Classic example is cal continuing to post the petition of "experts" that disagree with global warming. The petition that's like 15 years old. The petition I could sign. It's a joke. This isn't some grand conspiracy to silence dissenting voices. It's an effort to rank those voices appropriately and to call out the relative size of the voices as well. I had a good talk with Chris about this in DMs back in the day when the UK was doing the same anti expert anti academic nonsense. If your political party actively fights those that have educated themselves it should be a red flag. But instead they've weaved this tale of indoctrination or some other bullshit, to explain it away, and to keep their base uneducated and in line. I'm rambling. Who is and isn't an expert is clear. Or at least it should be. Sadly, with this group, it isn't ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 16 hours ago, MLD Woody said: Or at the very least their expertise is being greatly inflated by a bunch of folks that have zero scientific knowledge in their body / have been completely politically brainwashed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 19 hours ago, MLD Woody said: I'm rambling. Who is and isn't an expert is clear. Or at least it should be. Sadly, with this group, it isn't ... Hate to say it woody, but the COVID pandemic has done irreparable, self-inflicted harm to medical community's integrity and reputation. It's known as COVID, not Wuhan flu because calling it Wuhan flu would be racist against Chinese. Never mind that this was the naming convention for all previous viruses becoming pandemic. Early in the pandemic, The Lancet, one of the world's most reputable medical journals published a letter signed by top virologists condemning the "conspiracy theory" that it did not have a natural origin. Oh wait, 4 years later, this is now the leading theory on the origin of COVID. "Don't wear masks," was recommended to the public by Trump's surgeon general in order to keep a scarce supply of PPE to the people who needed it most. This was followed by "masks reduce the risk," recommendation from Biden's surgeon general. No one in either of these specific situations did anything maliciously, but it led to lots of confusion, distrust, and ultimately people treating each other like second-class citizens based on mask preference (both ways). Not pandemic-related, but The American Association of Pediatrics, The American Medical Association, The Endocrine Society all advocate for gender reassignment surgery and hormone replacement therapy on minors as a treatment method for gender dysphoria. Personally, I can't for the life of me understand why this topic is an exception to the general rule that physicians aren't supposed to indulge patients' delusions. This forum talks about MAGA cult and librul cult all the time, but I'm probably the only one here who has any personal experience with the cult that is academia. I can say that the politics of the ivory tower are as toxic as American politics in an election year, but all year every year. If you have a wrong opinion, good luck getting published in a high impact journal. I like your posts woody, but a lot of times you rely on the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. These authorities have demonstrably gotten things wrong often. Especially with the hyperpolarization of every facet of life in the last decade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 58 minutes ago, VaporTrail said: I like your posts woody, but a lot of times you rely on the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. These authorities have demonstrably gotten things wrong often. Especially with the hyperpolarization of every facet of life in the last decade. I enjoy reading your posts Vapor, I don’t always agree with them but you lay out your reasoning in a logical manner. Regarding Woody, I think he’s probably the youngest regular poster on the political board and I think his gullibility is due to his youth. He swallows a lot of the bullshit the media throws his way, I hope after he gets along in years he’s going to see through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 21 hours ago, MLD Woody said: I'm rambling. Who is and isn't an expert is clear. Or at least it should be. Sadly, with this group, it isn't ... Allow me to condense all that bullshit you just spewed.. Those you agree with are experts. Those of which you that don't, are not..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Axe said: Allow me to condense all that bullshit you just spewed.. Those you agree with are experts. Those of which you that don't, are not..... Aaaaaand you didn't follow what I said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 3 hours ago, Canton Dawg said: I enjoy reading your posts Vapor, I don’t always agree with them but you lay out your reasoning in a logical manner. Regarding Woody, I think he’s probably the youngest regular poster on the political board and I think his gullibility is due to his youth. He swallows a lot of the bullshit the media throws his way, I hope after he gets along in years he’s going to see through it. How old do you think I am? What media do you think I consume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 4 hours ago, VaporTrail said: Hate to say it woody, but the COVID pandemic has done irreparable, self-inflicted harm to medical community's integrity and reputation. It's known as COVID, not Wuhan flu because calling it Wuhan flu would be racist against Chinese. Never mind that this was the naming convention for all previous viruses becoming pandemic. Early in the pandemic, The Lancet, one of the world's most reputable medical journals published a letter signed by top virologists condemning the "conspiracy theory" that it did not have a natural origin. Oh wait, 4 years later, this is now the leading theory on the origin of COVID. "Don't wear masks," was recommended to the public by Trump's surgeon general in order to keep a scarce supply of PPE to the people who needed it most. This was followed by "masks reduce the risk," recommendation from Biden's surgeon general. No one in either of these specific situations did anything maliciously, but it led to lots of confusion, distrust, and ultimately people treating each other like second-class citizens based on mask preference (both ways). Not pandemic-related, but The American Association of Pediatrics, The American Medical Association, The Endocrine Society all advocate for gender reassignment surgery and hormone replacement therapy on minors as a treatment method for gender dysphoria. Personally, I can't for the life of me understand why this topic is an exception to the general rule that physicians aren't supposed to indulge patients' delusions. This forum talks about MAGA cult and librul cult all the time, but I'm probably the only one here who has any personal experience with the cult that is academia. I can say that the politics of the ivory tower are as toxic as American politics in an election year, but all year every year. If you have a wrong opinion, good luck getting published in a high impact journal. I like your posts woody, but a lot of times you rely on the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. These authorities have demonstrably gotten things wrong often. Especially with the hyperpolarization of every facet of life in the last decade. I owe this a response tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 8 hours ago, MLD Woody said: I owe this a response tomorrow. I will say, you're also spot on about cal's experts lmao 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FY56 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 On 3/4/2024 at 12:56 AM, MLD Woody said: I'm not taking these "experts" to task because they disagree with me, I do it because they aren't experts. Or at the very least their expertise is being greatly inflated by a bunch of folks that have zero scientific knowledge in their body / have been completely politically brainwashed. ... Case in point... Were you a follower of this expert by any chance? She was popular ya know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 3 minutes ago, FY56 said: Case in point... Were you a follower of this expert by any chance? She was popular ya know. Oh wow Gorka, great job. You got me... When have I ever called Greta an expert? Please let me know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FY56 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 1 minute ago, MLD Woody said: Oh wow Gorka, great job. You got me... When have I ever called Greta an expert? Please let me know... Ha "Gorka". When I know I pushed the wrong button.lol, so pipe down. Your comment perfectly described this expert. I never accused you of calling her an expert, nor do I believe you ever did. So please let me know. All I asked if you were a follower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, FY56 said: Ha "Gorka". When I know I pushed the wrong button.lol, so pipe down. Your comment perfectly described this expert. I never accused you of calling her an expert, nor do I believe you ever did. So please let me know. All I asked if you were a follower. Do I believe we need to be doing more to combat climate change? Yes. Do I know everything Greta does? No. So I couldn't tell you if I all make sense. Of course, this is a thread shoot experts. And you called her an expert. Your intentions were clear. No need to tap dance back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 16 hours ago, VaporTrail said: Hate to say it woody, but the COVID pandemic has done irreparable, self-inflicted harm to medical community's integrity and reputation. It's known as COVID, not Wuhan flu because calling it Wuhan flu would be racist against Chinese. Never mind that this was the naming convention for all previous viruses becoming pandemic. Early in the pandemic, The Lancet, one of the world's most reputable medical journals published a letter signed by top virologists condemning the "conspiracy theory" that it did not have a natural origin. Oh wait, 4 years later, this is now the leading theory on the origin of COVID. "Don't wear masks," was recommended to the public by Trump's surgeon general in order to keep a scarce supply of PPE to the people who needed it most. This was followed by "masks reduce the risk," recommendation from Biden's surgeon general. No one in either of these specific situations did anything maliciously, but it led to lots of confusion, distrust, and ultimately people treating each other like second-class citizens based on mask preference (both ways). Not pandemic-related, but The American Association of Pediatrics, The American Medical Association, The Endocrine Society all advocate for gender reassignment surgery and hormone replacement therapy on minors as a treatment method for gender dysphoria. Personally, I can't for the life of me understand why this topic is an exception to the general rule that physicians aren't supposed to indulge patients' delusions. This forum talks about MAGA cult and librul cult all the time, but I'm probably the only one here who has any personal experience with the cult that is academia. I can say that the politics of the ivory tower are as toxic as American politics in an election year, but all year every year. If you have a wrong opinion, good luck getting published in a high impact journal. I like your posts woody, but a lot of times you rely on the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. These authorities have demonstrably gotten things wrong often. Especially with the hyperpolarization of every facet of life in the last decade. What the public perceives and what is reality are two different things. Especially when it comes to scientific literacy. From young earth creationists to anti nuclear Greenpeace. It sucks, but the public's perception isn't what should determine scientific policy. Of course that's not how things work. So I have no doubt the pandemic harmed the perception of the medical field. A fast moving pandemic as everyone was trying to figure out what was going on with multiple people saying multiple things. Plenty of cracks for self proclaimed experts to take root. No one ever looking back after a false claim was disproven. Etc. And we were forced to stay inside adding to the chronically online population and amplifying this issue. - Just because we used to make something someway doesn't mean we need to continue to (too many examples to count, but you could throw a rock down south and hit something racially named, Niggerhead in Texas was something tied to Perry, right?). Nothing really for me to get up in arms about on this first point. - Folks could have come to the right answer through racist, conspiratorial means. But yeah, part of science is learning new things, adapting theories, etc. Just that it is generally growth on what exists, not complete 180s, which is what many on here want to claim. Rushing to blame China for a global pandemic with limited evidence probably wasn't going to do us much good in 2020. - The politicization of masks did more to people treating each other differently than any single recommendations. You can tie those recommendations to an administration if you want, but folks still wore masks during Trump and vice versa. Both sides drive up identity politics and wedge issues, don't get me wrong, but I firmly believe the right is playing this hand heavier. Masks are no exception. A communication not to wear masks early to save them for medical personnel until more became available and then saying to wear masks isn't a great look, I agree. But I also think people generally suck, and panicking people who are generally at lower risk and should be staying home in a way that limits medical PPE is a bad call. Yes, it's lying otherwise, but potentially for the greater good. Of course, we were learning new things about the disease constantly early on. So that probably plays a role too. - I don't believe that would be considered the first solution in any instances, and instead a last resort, where I imagine the patients health is at risk. But I would prefer not to expand this to going down the trans rabbit hole that this group at large will take us down. No better example of the identity / wedge issues I mentioned above than conservatives running entire campaigns around "anti woke" and "anti trans" nonsense. Trump even calling it out himself at a rally last year was hilarious. "No one cares about this before, and now...". Great way to keep the lower/middle class distracted and voting in a way that keeps the upper class in power. I don't think you're accurately describing my view points by claiming the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. Any time you reference expertise it isn't a logical fallacy. Especially when I'm, on climate change for example, referring to a consensus of experts or scientific bodies. The logical fallacy would be more what we're seeing on the other side, where one physics PhD, with no published research in climatology, is propped up as an expert and then it's claimed someone is right cuz the PhD agrees. You already alluded to this in another post, but the appeal to authority logical fallacy is seen much more by others (e.g., here's a list of randoms with a STEM degree). And yes, hyperpolarization sucks. It really does. I don't want climatology to be political. I don't want virology to be political. Etc. I am still going to fall on the side of the consensus of experienced, educated experts on those topics though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccjwh Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 “At the root of all this is an inability among laypeople to understand that experts being wrong on occasion about certain issues is not the same thing as experts being wrong consistently on everything. The fact of the matter is that experts are more often right than wrong, especially on essential matters of fact. And yet the public constantly searches for the loopholes in expert knowledge that will allow them to disregard all expert advice they don’t like. In” ― Thomas M. Nichols, The Death of Expertise: The Campaign against Established Knowledge and Why it Matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FY56 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, MLD Woody said: Do I believe we need to be doing more to combat climate change? Yes. Do I know everything Greta does? No. So I couldn't tell you if I all make sense. Of course, this is a thread shoot experts. And you called her an expert. Your intentions were clear. No need to tap dance back Oh shucks I forgot the " " around the word. Well since your intuition tells you that my intentions were clear, I would also presume your intuition would have told that I didn't mean literally that she was an expert. Talking out of both sides of your mouth in two short consecutive sentences. Cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 Odd, how does a mechanical engineer become an expert on arrogant man made global warming crap? really? lol Nice nonsense platitudes Woody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 9 hours ago, MLD Woody said: - I don't believe that would be considered the first solution in any instances, and instead a last resort, where I imagine the patients health is at risk. But I would prefer not to expand this to going down the trans rabbit hole that this group at large will take us down. No better example of the identity / wedge issues I mentioned above than conservatives running entire campaigns around "anti woke" and "anti trans" nonsense. Trump even calling it out himself at a rally last year was hilarious. "No one cares about this before, and now...". Great way to keep the lower/middle class distracted and voting in a way that keeps the upper class in power. I disagree with Trump about that. He might have been right 5 years ago, but this harmful ideology has become pervasive. I personally know a bunch of biological women who got top surgeries. I know pediatricians in residency who are expected to go along with this and afraid to say anything that might shy patients away from it. I have a distant family member living in Seattle. He is a widow, and he started his 12 year old kid on puberty blockers. Like, I don't know, maybe the kid is having an identity crisis because mom died of cancer last year. Maybe you could have exhausted all other options instead of giving your kid puberty blockers before they're capable of understanding the effects. I'm absolutely livid about this one. It's one thing if you're a confused adult and make this decision for yourself, but to do that to a kid??? You and I agree that this should be a last case scenario. However, the experts say that hormone replacement is a better route to take before the child hits the one way street of puberty. Completely unethical, never mind the reimbursements for hormone therapy and gender surgeries. Again, this scenario is what is being promoted by the academic societies I mentioned above. If you think the experts are wrong, and if you try to bring this up in residency, you sadly run the risk of retaliation. If you have views that are contrary to the prevailing theories, you are better off keeping your head down and your mouth shut until you graduate. In my anecdotal experience, the only people I've heard criticizing this topic at the state medical meetings have been mid-to-end of their careers. And if you're critical of what they're pushing, your views/research aren't likely to be featured in any of their journals. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 https://www.facebook.com/reel/6988558614587071 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 16 minutes ago, Axe said: https://www.facebook.com/reel/6988558614587071 Fuckin' aye right , brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 On 3/5/2024 at 8:35 PM, VaporTrail said: I disagree with Trump about that. He might have been right 5 years ago, but this harmful ideology has become pervasive. I personally know a bunch of biological women who got top surgeries. I know pediatricians in residency who are expected to go along with this and afraid to say anything that might shy patients away from it. I have a distant family member living in Seattle. He is a widow, and he started his 12 year old kid on puberty blockers. Like, I don't know, maybe the kid is having an identity crisis because mom died of cancer last year. Maybe you could have exhausted all other options instead of giving your kid puberty blockers before they're capable of understanding the effects. I'm absolutely livid about this one. It's one thing if you're a confused adult and make this decision for yourself, but to do that to a kid??? You and I agree that this should be a last case scenario. However, the experts say that hormone replacement is a better route to take before the child hits the one way street of puberty. Completely unethical, never mind the reimbursements for hormone therapy and gender surgeries. Again, this scenario is what is being promoted by the academic societies I mentioned above. If you think the experts are wrong, and if you try to bring this up in residency, you sadly run the risk of retaliation. If you have views that are contrary to the prevailing theories, you are better off keeping your head down and your mouth shut until you graduate. In my anecdotal experience, the only people I've heard criticizing this topic at the state medical meetings have been mid-to-end of their careers. And if you're critical of what they're pushing, your views/research aren't likely to be featured in any of their journals. Which is one reason it's dangerous to allow government to indulge people's insanity. Probably rarely a good idea to legitimize Munchausen by proxy. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 On 3/4/2024 at 12:56 AM, MLD Woody said: Steve, you couldn't even post the full definition of a cult when all it took was you copy pasting the full Webster entry (more than likely on purpose to try and protect your posting buddies) Are we supposed to now "debate" what an expert is? Sounds like a giant waste of time. I'm not taking these "experts" to task because they disagree with me, I do it because they aren't experts. Or at the very least their expertise is being greatly inflated by a bunch of folks that have zero scientific knowledge in their body / have been completely politically brainwashed. The "Frontline Doctors" is an obvious example. They were full of fraud from the start. Easy to see. But we had posters on here so blinded by their political leanings they were ready to put some random strip mall urgent care demon believing doctor above trained contagious disease experts. Classic example is cal continuing to post the petition of "experts" that disagree with global warming. The petition that's like 15 years old. The petition I could sign. It's a joke. This isn't some grand conspiracy to silence dissenting voices. It's an effort to rank those voices appropriately and to call out the relative size of the voices as well. I had a good talk with Chris about this in DMs back in the day when the UK was doing the same anti expert anti academic nonsense. If your political party actively fights those that have educated themselves it should be a red flag. But instead they've weaved this tale of indoctrination or some other bullshit, to explain it away, and to keep their base uneducated and in line. I'm rambling. Who is and isn't an expert is clear. Or at least it should be. Sadly, with this group, it isn't ... Absolutely you are rambling but regardless of any full definition of the word cult it's meaningless. It can be applied to anything and anyone thereby removing any connotation of right wrong or indifferent. And that's regardless of your being compelled to bond with assholes like cccp. WSS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 2 hours ago, Westside Steve said: Absolutely you are rambling but regardless of any full definition of the word cult it's meaningless. It can be applied to anything and anyone thereby removing any connotation of right wrong or indifferent. And that's regardless of your being compelled to bond with assholes like cccp. WSS Steve... You're very clearly didn't post the full definition in an attempt to save your buddies on here. Let's be real. You can fight that one to your grave, but it couldn't have been any clearer. Literally the exact part of the definition that would have matched their views and actions and you just happened to leave it out. None of this "well anyone can be anything" crap. And I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you were attempting to be deceitful on purpose and not just a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, MLD Woody said: Steve... You're very clearly didn't post the full definition in an attempt to save your buddies on here. Let's be real. You can fight that one to your grave, but it couldn't have been any clearer. Literally the exact part of the definition that would have matched their views and actions and you just happened to leave it out. None of this "well anyone can be anything" crap. And I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you were attempting to be deceitful on purpose and not just a moron. Wow!... You are a total idiot.... I'm not one bit surprised... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FY56 Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, MLD Woody said: Steve... You're very clearly didn't post the full definition in an attempt to save your buddies on here. Let's be real. You can fight that one to your grave, but it couldn't have been any clearer. Literally the exact part of the definition that would have matched their views and actions and you just happened to leave it out. None of this "well anyone can be anything" crap. And I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you were attempting to be deceitful on purpose and not just a moron. Trump is no cult leader. A cult leader lures lost people into his warped ideology. The more they listen the more they buy into it. A cult leader is charismatic. Trump lured no one into an ideology, or into his beliefs. The conservative ideology was already here, in place way before Trump, and he is hardly charismatic. Conservatives exist with or without Trump. Trump is not the cult leader of the right/conservatives. He is their voice. Do you see the difference? I would not expect cccp to understand, but I would expect you to. In the English-speaking world, the term cult often carries derogatory connotations. In this sense, it has been considered a subjective term used as an ad hominem attack against groups with differing doctrines or practices. As such, religion scholar Megan Goodwin has defined the term cult, when it is used by the layperson, as often being shorthand for a "religion I don't like". The use of "cult" around here is used strictly as an ad hominem attack/derogatory connotations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 in woodpecker world, words only have a new meaning that he? gives them on the fly. Because he FEELS good when he does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 51 minutes ago, FY56 said: Trump is no cult leader. A cult leader lures lost people into his warped ideology. The more they listen the more they buy into it. A cult leader is charismatic. Also, Trump is charismatic. Especially within the world of politics. You'd be crazy or purposefully ignorant not to think so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 Just now, MLD Woody said: Also, Trump is charismatic. Especially within the world of politics. You'd be crazy or purposefully ignorant not to think so. Pres Trump is a leader who did hundreds of good/great things for America. Most folks know it to be true. There isn't any warped idealogy that he lures people into. There is no worshiping of Pres Trump, just "America First". Unlike your obaMao commie wanting to "transform America". the left wants to trans every damn thing, even our entire country. perverts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FY56 Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 56 minutes ago, MLD Woody said: Also, Trump is charismatic. Especially within the world of politics. You'd be crazy or purposefully ignorant not to think so. So you just cherry pick a comment and disregard the main point. And that is your only basis for calling him a cult leader? It figures. Charismatic..."Exhibiting charisma" "charm" "attractive" "appealing"..If you say so. Trump speaks at the level of an 8th grader, but if you want to call him charismatic then OK, I'll play. So is there anything else you would like add? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.