Browns/Bengals According to Schein

[Drunkandstoopid]

I just can't believe we are back to having this same ol' debate. Everybody here thought once the season began we would have our QB win lose or draw, now we're transported back to May 09 where everybody is throwing out stats from 08 and 07. The DA backers like an ex high school QB reliving the glory year where he was badass for about 8 games (and the giants game of 08) while ignoring all of his other shitty play.

 

Those who backed Quinn acknowledge that he hasn't played well at all, but pulling him after 3 games is definitely a knee jerk reaction by Mangini, and most of us realize that he's making this move to keep his job (how effin' sick is that?)

 

Everybody here is hoping that Anderson has a good game. I hope that somehow magically he "gets it" now and goes out and torches the Bengals then runs the table and cements himself as our franchise QB of the future. That would be awesome, it really would. However, what you DA fags have to realize is that until that happens you cannot fault us for having little to no faith in this happening, we are basing this view on what he's done in the past, most recently this past sunday. 3 picks in one half of football? Yeah sign me up.

 

Anyone who hangs their disqust with DA on the three ints last week is avoiding reality. The Browns were 20 points down, the coaches changed their offense to 4 and 5 wideouts (how much have we seen that this fall?) and basically said... screw it, throw the ball...

 

Now if that's the kind of offense they're running under DA from here on, then you've got a point and legitimate worries... but otherwise get real.

[car ramrod]

So do you believe that this is a winning football team if we put in a QB that turns the ball over constantly? I think we are a better team with DA in there rather than BQ

 

Do you think that the defense will give up less points because Derek Anderson is throwing interceptions and getting 3 and outs just as much as Brady. Yes I do think that the D will give up less points because we will get more first downs instead of going 3 and out 3 and out (keep repeating till end of game)

 

This knee-jerk reaction only guarantees 1 of 2 things:

 

1) That Brady won't get a fair chance in Cleveland. We put up with DA's turnovers and bad play from the last 7 games of 2007, until the Giants game in 2008. Brady gets 50% of the snaps with the 1's in TC, and is expected to go out there and perform well with no running game, and his offensive lineman giving him 2.66 seconds on 8 of his 9 sacks. I promise I would usaully be with you. But I just dont see it in Quinn at all.

 

2) That Brady will get a chance next season, and if he's bad, we just lost another season to a QB controversy and delay getting another QB. Nope we look for another QB because BQ is not the answer. Either through the draft or free agency. Actually through the draft because who the hell in their right mind would want to come here as a free agent QB.

 

 

 

I want to find out if Brady can be a true QB or not. If not, I want to get a QB that can play ASAP. I want to start the next project. He's not kid. As bad as you and I want him to be, he is not the answer. So we will start the next project in april of next year.

 

But we need to stop with the controversy's. I totally agree with you.

 

 

 

[DaBrowns41]

Anyone who hangs their disqust with DA on the three ints last week is avoiding reality. The Browns were 20 points down, the coaches changed their offense to 4 and 5 wideouts (how much have we seen that this fall?) and basically said... screw it, throw the ball...

 

Now if that's the kind of offense they're running under DA from here on, then you've got a point and legitimate worries... but otherwise get real.

 

I'm not complaining about him throwing the ball down the field.

 

I'm complaining that he did it while Braylon was being covered by 3 receivers.

 

I'm complaining that on his first INT, he had PLENTY of room to throw the ball and lead the receiver, and he threw it behind him, into the hands of a LB.

 

 

[DaBrowns41]

Whether we think that he's going to be a good QB or not, he needs a chance to show us.

 

The last thing I want is for us to get rid of him, and then hit ourselves upside the head because we gave him 5.5 games.

 

 

 

 

[car ramrod]

Whether we think that he's going to be a good QB or not, he needs a chance to show us.

 

The last thing I want is for us to get rid of him, and then hit ourselves upside the head because we gave him 5.5 games.

 

 

Again I'm usually on your side on this one. But he reminds me of a poor mans David Carr.

[DaBrowns41]

Again I'm usually on your side on this one. But he reminds me of a poor mans David Carr.

 

Even David Carr got more opportunities.

 

Drew Brees was average in his first 27 starts. He got opportunities. Again, I'm not saying Quinn should get 30 starts.

 

But he definitely deserves more than 5.5.

 

Not to mention, it's hard for a QB to succeed when he has 1 weapon on offense in Braylon. He has a blocking TE that they don't even use to block (by Dumervil's 2nd sack, it was clear St. Clair needed help, and we needed to put a TE on that side, and didn't). He has twinkle toes in the backfield, and has offensive lineman that can't run a screen properly (referring to at least 3 screens where 2 OL blocked one guy, specifically in the Denver game when Harrison got tackled for a 2 yard loss because Steinbach and Mack went for the inside guy when Steinbach should have kicked out Andra).

 

Last year he had Winslow to fall back on, and teams had to guard him because he could RAC. Royal can't even catch the ball, let alone RAC.

 

I don't mean to make excuses for Quinn because some of his play has been bad, but it's not all on him. He needs more than 5.5 games. Sure he doesn't look like much now, but he needs an opportunity.

[car ramrod]

Even David Carr got more opportunities.

 

Drew Brees was average in his first 27 starts. He got opportunities. Again, I'm not saying Quinn should get 30 starts.

 

But he definitely deserves more than 5.5.

 

Not to mention, it's hard for a QB to succeed when he has 1 weapon on offense in Braylon. He has a blocking TE that they don't even use to block (by Dumervil's 2nd sack, it was clear St. Clair needed help, and we needed to put a TE on that side, and didn't). He has twinkle toes in the backfield, and has offensive lineman that can't run a screen properly (referring to at least 3 screens where 2 OL blocked one guy, specifically in the Denver game when Harrison got tackled for a 2 yard loss because Steinbach and Mack went for the inside guy when Steinbach should have kicked out Andra).

 

Last year he had Winslow to fall back on, and teams had to guard him because he could RAC. Royal can't even catch the ball, let alone RAC.

 

I don't mean to make excuses for Quinn because some of his play has been bad, but it's not all on him. He needs more than 5.5 games. Sure he doesn't look like much now, but he needs an opportunity.

 

 

But I think that its deeper than that. just watching some of the games he does not hit or go for open receivers. He has had people open but panics before a receiver gets OPEN. This is not High School or College football. This is the NFL. 85% of the time you throw the ball and the WR is not looking. You expect him to go there. Brady waits until someone is open and starring at him waving his arms almost to throw the ball and that is not going to work.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree because I just do not believe in him.

 

If DA does average with the talent that we have that also proves that Brady boy is a big ol busto.....

[DaBrowns41]

But I think that its deeper than that. just watching some of the games he does not hit or go for open receivers. He has had people open but panics before a receiver gets OPEN. This is not High School or College football. This is the NFL. 85% of the time you throw the ball and the WR is not looking. You expect him to go there. Brady waits until someone is open to throw the ball and that is not going to work.

 

I guess we will have to agree to diagree because I just do not believe in him.

If DA does average with the talent that we have that also proves that Brady boy is a big ol busto.....

 

We will find out.

[car ramrod]

We will find out.

 

 

Thats the best part.

[Earl34]

You guys should know that Adam Schein is a NY based "journalist" who has admitted his hatred for Mangini on the air. He was calling for Mangini's firing when he was 8-3 last year. I doubt Adam Schein is a reasonable source of information much less an unbiased one.

 

He's a tool.

[Xanthros]

My thoughts are simply this. I feel that we have seen about as high as DA is going to go. His ceiling if you will. I just wish Quinn would have had time to develop a bit to see if we really need to draft a QB next year. He has absolutely not been given a fair shot. I was 100% a DA pimp during the 2007 season, but by the Cinci game last year was ready to see what we had spent a first round pick and all that money on. And Quinn looked a lot better last year before the injury. I don't think he has been allowed to get comfortable in this system yet and is suffering more and more by being benched. Since when were we expecting to go to the playoffs or SB this year?

 

For that matter, what's wrong with having a high pick next year given the circumtances and expectations of this year.

 

We are rebuilding are we not?

[car ramrod]

My thoughts are simply this. I feel that we have seen about as high as DA is going to go. His ceiling if you will. I just wish Quinn would have had time to develop a bit to see if we really need to draft a QB next year. He has absolutely not been given a fair shot. I was 100% a DA pimp during the 2007 season, but by the Cinci game last year was ready to see what we had spent a first round pick and all that money on. And Quinn looked a lot better last year before the injury. I don't think he has been allowed to get comfortable in this system yet and is suffering more and more by being benched. Since when were we expecting to go to the playoffs or SB this year?

 

For that matter, what's wrong with having a high pick next year given the circumtances and expectations of this year.

 

We are rebuilding are we not?

 

 

Yep. We are rebuilding just like the Falcons or Dolphins did last year. And I will say that every year until it happens.

[Xanthros]

Yep. We are rebuilding just like the Falcons or Dolphins did last year. And I will say that every year until it happens.

 

This year is truly a rebuild. Too many positions of importance have turned over IMO. But one thin is certain. Quinn showed a lot more last season with better players around him. The playcalling is definately hurting him as well. I just want them to win, but I feel bad for Brady. I hope DA gets it done, but to what end? He is NOT the answer we're lookin for we already know that...

[car ramrod]

This year is truly a rebuild. Too many positions of importance have turned over IMO. But one thin is certain. Quinn showed a lot more last season with better players around him. The playcalling is definately hurting him as well. I just want them to win, but I feel bad for Brady. I hope DA gets it done, but to what end? He is NOT the answer we're lookin for we already know that...

 

The Dolphins went what 1-15 the year before making the playoffs last year?

 

The Falcons IMO thought they were the worst team the year before.

 

They both got new coaches and changed over personel. So that is what I expect every year until it happens.

 

We do have other playmakers. Quinn is not finding them.

[EdwardG]

I for one am not "hating" on DA, I'm saying that he isn't a starter on a quality NFL team, so what is the point of playing him? Quinn has looked bad to date this year, but first, he's been in 3 tough games against undefeated teams, second, he looked good last year before injuring his finger, third, He's a #1 making a lot of money, and fourth, the team is going nowhere this year and so it's a year to evaluate people. All of this screams that the team should be playing Quinn and really ALL of the youngsters. I really fail to see the team's strategy here of playing journeyman-quality talent like DA. This team is going to lose at least 12 games no matter who it plays, so let's get the evaluation going...

[lodilobo]

Ratliff must have some footage or dirt on Mangini or something. Anything to explain Mangini's fascination with sub-par QBs.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/1015188...utperform-Brady

 

9. Will Cleveland score 10 points against Cincy?

 

I was so close to my predicted shutout for the Browns last week. And you know me well enough to realize the three points they put on the board against the Ravens ruined my day. Predicting a shutout was bold, and I was oh, so close. Right principle, wrong number.

 

And, of course, that principle is Cleveland is a flat-out disaster.

 

The Browns have been outscored 55-10 in the first half. They've rushed for 214 yards this season, also known as a good week for Adrian Peterson. The quarterbacks have been sacked 11 times.

 

Eric Mangini is turning to Derek Anderson in place of Brady Quinn. I expect we will see Mangini's boy from the Jets, Brett Ratliff, soon. And we should, considering Mangini insisted on his inclusion on the draft day heist for the Jets that brought Mark Sanchez to New York and more pain and embarrassment to Cleveland.

 

But I digress.

 

I bought into Cincy's defense in the offseason, and it is even better than I expected under the great Mike Zimmer. Rey Maualuga and Keith Rivers are playing great at linebacker. Roy Williams is reborn at safety under Zim, his old coach in Dallas. Williams was raving about their relationship when we spoke on Sirius NFL Radio.

 

This game has 24-6 Bengals written all over it, which makes it a bust. And it's in Cleveland.

 

To quote Sam Wyche: "You don't live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati".

Schein seems like an idiot to me. Personally, I think DA is going to play well, and we will beat the Bengals. Why? Because if nothing else, DA is inconsistent. I've seen him play really well, and I've seen him play really bad. He's due to play well....he's going to be confident, getting the job back, and I'm not sure Cincy will be able to put a lot of pressure on him. I'm hoping DA looks like the Pro bowler from 2007.....just to make this guy Schein eat his words. He sucks.

[car ramrod]

I for one am not "hating" on DA, I'm saying that he isn't a starter on a quality NFL team, so what is the point of playing him? Quinn has looked bad to date this year, but first, he's been in 3 tough games against undefeated teams, second, he looked good last year before injuring his finger, third, He's a #1 making a lot of money, and fourth, the team is going nowhere this year and so it's a year to evaluate people. All of this screams that the team should be playing Quinn and really ALL of the youngsters. I really fail to see the team's strategy here of playing journeyman-quality talent like DA. This team is going to lose at least 12 games no matter who it plays, so let's get the evaluation going...

 

 

IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.

 

Mia

Buf

Jax

K.C (Cassell is a bum)

Oak

Was

Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)

T.B

Stl

S.F

Sea

[lemosley01]

IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.

 

Mia

Buf

Jax

K.C (Cassell is a bum)

Oak

Was

Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)

T.B

Stl

S.F

Sea

 

That doesn't mean he's STARTER material. There are a lot of guys who are really nothing more than backups starting on teams all over the NFL. Unfortunately, there are only so many legit starters to go around. Everyone else is looking for one.

 

He might be an upgrade over some of those guys, though.

 

I disagree with Orton; for whatever reason, the guy plays for teams that win. Maybe he's just a good luck charm. I'd seriously watch this guy because I think he's going to 'Dilfer' his way to a Superbowl Ring. Ain't that some shit?

[car ramrod]

That doesn't mean he's STARTER material. There are a lot of guys who are really nothing more than backups starting on teams all over the NFL. Unfortunately, there are only so many legit starters to go around. Everyone else is looking for one.

 

He might be an upgrade over some of those guys, though.

 

I disagree with Orton; for whatever reason, the guy plays for teams that win. Maybe he's just a good luck charm. I'd seriously watch this guy because I think he's going to 'Dilfer' his way to a Superbowl Ring. Ain't that some shit?

 

 

You know what I would not be surprised. And you put it better than I was thinking about it "I think he's going to 'Dilfer' his way to a Superbowl Ring".

 

 

[WilsonTheVolleyball]

2007 is a long, long, long time ago in the NFL.

 

Hey, I am glad you can still view this with a positive outlook. I know I can't and it has very little to do with either QB at this point.

 

Agreed. People seem to forget that even Jake Delhomme was almost the Superbowl MVP.

 

Times change, and for DA, it happened very quickly.

[grimmreaper3]

 

Whack away, DA fanatics.

[DaBrowns41]

IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.

 

Mia

Buf

Jax

K.C (Cassell is a bum)

Oak

Was

Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)

T.B

Stl

S.F

Sea

 

Miami- Most likely, because he'd have a deep threat in Teddy. However, Tyler Thigpen was just acquired by the 'Fins and Thigpen started off rough last year, but played well against a few solid defenses and was threatening Cassel for the starting job, somehow.

 

Buffalo- No sir. Edwards has had a great start to this season, and even though he didn't have many TD's last season, he had a nice CP, and YPA despite the fact that he didn't have a true #1 receiver.

 

Jax- No QB would succeed with last years OL. Not to mention they have zero WR's, which is why MJD touches the ball nearly every play. Garrard was sacked 42 times last season, compared to just 21 the year he went 18/3 TD/INT ratio. Garrard is a very suitable option and better than DA.

 

KC- Cassel is a solid QB. He's very efficient and limits turnovers. He had a rough day against Oakland, but he still has 13 more games to prove himself in.

 

Washington- I agree. Campbell is a bum.

 

Denver- No change. Kyle Orton and Derek Anderson are the exact same QB. They are both tall with big arms, who struggle to complete short passes and take a lot of risks. They both complete around 54% of their passes, both average around 6 YPA, both have a quick release and throw a lot of INT's.

 

TB- See Denver. Leftwich is a big arm who can't complete short passes. Jury is out on Freeman.

 

St. Louis- Bulger used to be a solid option, and is now trash. I agree.

 

San Fran- What's wrong with Shaun Hill? Limits turnovers, good CP, great YPA. Can you blame him for a lack of TD's when his best WR is 36 years old and is washed up?

 

Seattle- Hasselbeck had a rough 7 games in 2008, but he's still a very good QB when healthy. Wallace has filled in nicely. Last season throwing 11 TD's to 3 INT's while providing a few yards here and there on the ground. Seattle's offense is like ours, only with no #1 receiver. They have a crappy line, crappy RB's, crappy WR's...

 

 

So that's 3 teams.

 

[car ramrod]

I guess we just disagree.

 

Edwards in Buffalo is just not good at all IMO. I think if you put DA in there with T.O and evans and there running game with Jackson and now they get Lynch back would be very explosive opposed to below mediocre at best.

 

I won't even go on. I just think DA is better than you guys give credit.

 

 

[DaBrowns41]

I guess we just disagree.

 

Edwards in Buffalo is just not good at all IMO. I think if you put DA in there with T.O and evans and there running game with Jackson and now they get Lynch back would be very explosive opposed to below mediocre at best.

 

I won't even go on. I just think DA is better than you guys give credit.

 

I can only go by what DA has shown. Good QB's learn not to make the same mistakes over, and over, and over again.

 

He's been throwing into triple coverage since I can remember watching him play as a freshman at Oregon State.

 

Good QB's make adjustments and get better. He's regressed.

[EdwardG]

IMO I think that he could start on 11 teams right now.

 

Mia

Buf

Jax

K.C (Cassell is a bum)

Oak

Was

Den (go ahead and get me but Orton is s bum too)

T.B

Stl

S.F

Sea

 

Assume you're right. Will any of those teams be winning the Super Bowl this year? All I care about is finding the QB who can lead the team there. We need a top tier QB, not a the 20th best one in the league. (Yes, Dilfer happened, but that is markedly the exception, not the rule). Quinn may not be that top tier QB, but we aren't going to find that out with him on the bench. We know by now that DA isn't top tier (too inconsistent and mistake prone), so let's get on with it and keep evaluating Quinn. (And evaluate everyone else, too... bench the journeymen and let's see what the young guys have.)

[Guest Masters]

Anyone who hangs their disqust with DA on the three ints last week is avoiding reality. The Browns were 20 points down, the coaches changed their offense to 4 and 5 wideouts (how much have we seen that this fall?) and basically said... screw it, throw the ball...

 

Now if that's the kind of offense they're running under DA from here on, then you've got a point and legitimate worries... but otherwise get real.

 

So when you are down 20, it's okay to throw in triple coverage? That is never acceptable, ever.

[hammertime]

4 pages of the same old shit

 

 

[DaBrowns41]

How does one start 5.5 games? It's like getting kind of pregnant.

 

I meant that I'm not asking for him to get 30 starts, and that 5.5 games played isn't fair.

[car ramrod]

Assume you're right. Will any of those teams be winning the Super Bowl this year? All I care about is finding the QB who can lead the team there. We need a top tier QB, not a the 20th best one in the league. (Yes, Dilfer happened, but that is markedly the exception, not the rule). Quinn may not be that top tier QB, but we aren't going to find that out with him on the bench. We know by now that DA isn't top tier (too inconsistent and mistake prone), so let's get on with it and keep evaluating Quinn. (And evaluate everyone else, too... bench the journeymen and let's see what the young guys have.)

 

 

Well we have witnessed Quinn not being able to get the job done. Thats of course if you take your glasses off.

[Guest Masters]

Well we have witnessed Quinn not being able to get the job done. Thats of course if you take your glasses off.

 

And we have all witnessed DA couldn't get the job done either. So what exactly is the point?