laiccm

Baker has led the league in interceptions since being in the league.

Off the field issues that are not legal or suspendable but unnecessarily annoying

Broke rookie TD record

Led team to playoffs

Led team to playoff win against Pittsburgh at Pittsburgh

At times very accurate

What I read about Brisset who is also less expensive,  bigger and faster than Baker but never led a team to the playoffs.

"Brissett will join his fourth NFL team since entering the league in 2016 and has played 60 games with 37 starts. He’s passed for 7,772 yards, 36 touchdowns and 17 interceptions, including 1,281 yards, five touchdowns and four interceptions in 11 games and five starts with the Miami Dolphins last season"

Is Baker better than Brissett? If so....by how much do you think?

8 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

I did.

You're being so open-minded that your brains have fallen out. 

The question isn't What Is Possible -- it's always possible that aliens are among us -- the question is how PROBABLE things are.  And we learn that probability from..  the evidence.

You're reading into it what you want to read into it for argument sake. 

I worked for a criminal defense attorney for 7 years out of law school.

Deal with definites.

I wasn't there...nor were you. Bottomline.

Just because you don't go to jail don't mean you didn't do it.

Just because you go to jail don't mean you did do it.

Those are statements of fact proven time and time again by DNA evidence and the Freedom project. 

You're welcome 

7 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

And your proof of this is.... what, exactly?  The same proof that achieved zero indictments?

Or your deliberate refusal to change the snap judgement you made 7 seconds after you heard the lawsuits were filed because you'd rather ruin someone else's life than admit you're occasionally 100% wrong?  Because if you admit you're wrong then you'd need to suck up your pride and change your mind - and that's a fate worse than death?

 

It's neither "very" possible" nor "mildly" possible nor "sort of kind of 1/24th" possible.

 

You recognize that grand juries indict a ham sandwich but refuse to realize that.... there wasn't ham-sandwich-level evidence, whatever that means?

Sheesh....reread the ENTIRE reply I typed 

10 minutes ago, nickers said:

I just see more of the same old , same old...

Cuz the Browns have beaten your fandom.down so many years......

If this don't work I'll be with you

10 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

 

Good! now can we merge this into any of the 7, ccm's accused Watson threads? 🤣 No wonder Z kept a lair of hot assistants

Or....listen to this one....you can just not reply to the post? Lol

2 minutes ago, nickers said:

Again... Your not an Attorney... I rest my case...

Nor are you...therefore you have no case to rest. Lol

31 minutes ago, nickers said:

Well there wasn't any cameras in the room(s) where these excursions took place... So no one will really know what went on... Or if anything did go on...But like my Uncle Andy says,,, Where theres smoke.. You can bet theres a fire burning somewhere... out of the 22 encounters... Maybe there was something to maybe 2 of those where some frivolous activity ensued... Who knows... I really wish the Browns had not pulled the trigger on this deal... No matter what happens from here on out... Doubt will always be cast on Watson... He comes off rather meek in my opinion... I have a hard time believing he's gonna lead us anywhere... He failed to do so with D-Hop and a top 5 defense. Then when shit didnt go his way he demanded all the coaching staff and players be replaced by blacks only... Which I thought was pretty shitty on his part.. So sue me if I don''t like this trade...

It's not about you agreeing with my take as much as your take has falsified.

I worked for a criminal defense attorney for 7 years out of law school. I'm not an Attorney. 

Where's there smoke theres fire? Well if that's correct then the freedom project wouldn't get prisoners free every year? Maybe the fire is brewing between the Texans owner and the Attorney.? Out of all the attorneys...how is  a very good neighbor and friend of the owner is the one representing all of the women? The FBI got involved....trust me. They didnt get involved over massages but they will get involved over a conspiracy involving a billionaire. 

Your personal football opinion on Watson we just agree to disagree. 

Watson didn't demand white Texans employees be replaced with black employees. That's just....comedy . He was upset at the coaching decision and the Texans being ran as the worse franchise in sports.  Ask D. Hopkins and Watt.

As in always will be doubts? So there will be with the Ray Lewis murders, Ben Roethlisberger rapes and Tom Brady cheating. Ask if Ravens, Steelers and Patriot fans if they really  care?

35 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

https://sportsnaut.com/jarvis-landrys-asking-price-20-million/

But he's not going to get it.

WSS

Probably not...doesn't hurt to ask.

Bottom line is I'm sure he can get more somewhere else than what we we're gonna pay him...yet he seems to want to come back....wtf does that for Cleveland??

All I'm saying is that many are emphasizing that number saying  that many women can't be lying? 22 says alot...

But for a grand jury( that can indict a ham sandwich) to not indict Watson on not even  1 of the 22 alleges says just as much.

The grand jury could've indicted him on 1 count and sent the other 21 packing. They didnt ...

If it's also true of the abnormally close relationship of the Texans owner and the attorney ( neighbors, family members are best friends, run and endorse eachother's politics)....thats almost as concerning 

I saw a report he wants 15 at most...

I didn't see 20 anywhere. 

Does it matter? He knows he can't get that here yet he is considering us again. 

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Look we all know everybody who has been under center for the Browns has had his share of haters. And I believe 99% of the time the hating starts first and then the haters look for reasons, real or imagined, to back it up. So after an entire offseason of the front office telling everybody that would listen that he's the starter for 22 and then getting the knife in the back he got pissed off? Who, besides a complete  puss, wouldn't? That is some pretty weak shit.

If your  wife is banging  the paperboy would your first reaction be to bow your head and make sure to bring home more money and keep the house and yard nicer for when  he  visits?

WSS

Or people were right and then the person under center proved it more? You can be pissed all you want, but adults have adult reactions. Going to social media and demanding a trade screwed him over and you blame him. Billion dollar business.....emphasis on business. Business is never personal...it's business.

For 18 million the paperboy can film it.....idgaf....especially if I wasn't hitting it right anyway but acting like I was....

21 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

Mayfield has always had an attitude to the point of being obnoxious and embarrassing. If you decided to move on, why not bench him last season, when he's injured? That would have been a perfect opportunity to start the process. They're stuck for the $19 million, anyway. They could have played Keenum...maybe signed a free agent backup...Instead they decide to make fools of themselves...again, ....and pay DW $230 million, completely guaranteed, no less, knowing that he has all these accusations, and most likely will not play for at least 8 games in 2002. Is this their plan to gain respect and a winning tradition back? Do you younger guys even realize what a great franchise this once was? When I was growing up, in the 50;s and 60's, the Browns were among the winningest teams. I've dealt with all the different owners and coaches over the past 60 years...I've dealt with all the bad players and poor decisions, but I've never seen an owner like Haslam, who seems to have one goal. That's to drag the once proud name of the Cleveland Browns through the mud over and over. Can he really be this dumb? He's the owner of a major corporation...a billionaire, no less. How is he incapable of building a winning team with respectability? This is a guy who has let a homeless man decide who to pick in the draft. The other owners must be having a field day laughing at this guy. I'll just say this about Mayfield....I've defended him many times, when I thought he was being treated unfairly. But...he has alienated pretty much everybody who once rooted for him. Him may have ruined his young career with his stupid actions and comments. When a team would rather have Carson Wentz over Mayfield, that pretty much tells the story. So...don't get the idea that there is no limit to my loyalty for Baker. I'm just completely disgusted with how this organization continues to screw up everything they touch. The drama never ends.

More than just obnoxious and embarrassing..its immature to a point where it's childish and his talent doesn't outweigh it. You see any teammates coming to his defense? There's a reason.

Bench him? You forget how Baker ran to the press and stated only he makes the decision  for him to sit? In combination of the medical staff clearing him then wtf are you supposed to do other than play him? He's the no.1 pick who just helped win a road playoff game against Pittsburgh.  Baker bet on himself, put the contract before his team well being...and lost.

I disagree. Them getting Watson might be their best move yet. Money means very little to me because in 2 seasons the next contract for a elite QB is 60 mill a year...Watch what Burrow and Herbert get.

As in Watson's criminal case...dead. civil suits...we will see. I think Brisset can hold the fort down for a bit until the suspension. 

As in go all in with Baker this year...you wanna go to war against Lamar, Wilson, Mahomes, Burrows, Herbert, Josh Allen ...with Baker? How many seasons Chubb, Garrett, Wars, Hunt...etc have?

Not a fan of Haslam..never really been. But Baker is the author of all his ills. Imagine if he would've just STFU and got surgery last year?  He would've gotten a contract I gauarantee....

Heck, After Watson turned the Browns down he could've swallowed a little pride and got a contract in that window.....naw...he gonna go " trade me to the Colts "

6 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Billy B. spent his whole football coaching life trying to figure out how to chisel some way to get an edge in football,  legal or not. 

Brady kind of the unlikable quarterback unless you were a UM, NE or just recently a TB fan.  What will it take for he and Gronk to go away for good  ?  

Yuo.....For example I have ZERO doubts the Pats organization did know Aaron Hernandez was a complete murdering monster.  They just didn't gaf....

12 minutes ago, Neo said:

saw this on the NFL homepage.

https://www.nfl.com/news/second-grand-jury-considering-criminal-complaint-against-browns-qb-deshaun-watso

I saw this to....just look like it's going to go nowhere.....one of the same individuals...

49 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

Yep....exactly right. The media, with the help of Browns have made Mayfield look like a draft bust. I didn't care for his attitude, but I've seen worse. These people point out the OBJ fiasco...how Baker couldn't get the ball to him. That's a load of crap. The guy wanted out before he ever got here. He couldn't run a correct route to save his life. He was a free lancer that did not fit this offense. Why don't they have a video of all the balls that were in his hands, that he dropped? Baker brought excitement back...expectations of winning in any game. I can't believe how easily they turn on a qb who was the best we've had since '99. I'm with you...I'm out. I know this whole Deshaun Watson thing is going to blow up in Haslam's face. Berry will be the scapegoat...the Browns and Cleveland will be the joke of the NFL...as usual. The only good that can come from this, is if Haslam is somehow decides to sell the team after all the humiliation. I can't even begin to imagine a worse owner.

Let's pause.....in 4 years Baker attacked medical staff, local journalists, national talking heads, former coach, other player's about their contracts.....please name the QB in 4 years who did all that? Why you think no one wants to pay the 18 mill while elite QBs out here getting 40? His mouth doesn't out weigh his talent...everything needs to be perfect around him to thrive-how often does that happen?.. Carolina reps stated they weren't interested in Mayfield....dude responds with we're not interested in them either. That's not Halslam, FO or fans fault....it's Baker

2 minutes ago, hish747 said:

The denial I was referring to relates to your thinking that a situation like Watson coming to the Browns doesn't implicate your morals. But it does. It offends your morals. What I'm suggesting is if you analyze the situation objectively, you will likely come to the conclusion that Watson is being framed in a massive money grab. Therefore, you would not have any moral conflict with him coming to the Browns. Just accepting the allegations at face value is giving up too easy. Don't even get me started on cops...

Or does it implicate a lack of hypocrisy. I didn't leave my country when we gave the nuclear football to a man with 25 alleged sexual assaults, so why would I leave my team over a a quarterback with 22 of them?

Could it be a massive money grab? Certainly....the grand jury can indict a ham sandwich and they didn't indict him on even 1 charge. None of the women complained to a supervisor and most did it multiple times. The court could've done 1 and sent the other 21 packing, the 22 accusations came almost all at once when he requested a trade, the attorney lives on the Texan's owner street, family are friends and the run in the same political circles.  What's also very possible is Watson is a complete perv and deserves prison.....it's just out of my hands and way above my paygrade.

13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'll admit, the timing of the lawsuit always struck me as interesting. 

Watson demands to be traded from Houston, and before you know it, the Texans owner's lawyer neighbor has almost two dozen clients lined up against Watson. 

On the other hand, let's be real about the "exhaustive background check" the Browns did on Watson. They don't give two shits if he did this, they just wanted to make sure none of it was going to stick to Watson before trading the world for him. I mean, this is the Haslams we are talking about.

And like there was ALMOST no escalation whatsoever...like..BOOM 22. And as they say the grand jury can indict a ham sandwich...they didn't indict him on a singe 1? They could've indicted him on 2 and sent the other 20 packing away for example....but not even 1?

Exactly....don't stick ...they don't give a F

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

I guess it could be a possibility.  We may have opened Pandora's Box.  It was bound to be opened soon enough, but we did it first.

Yeah...waa they made at Mahomes near half a billion? Rodgers 50 mill a year.....?

They should be more upset at alot of other things than that...F THEM

GO BROWNS!!

16 minutes ago, Flugel said:

You made some good points.  You don't need to sell me on the difference of talent between Watson and Baker.  I wanted us to draft Watson coming out of Clemson. If we did that - I wouldn't have to tell you I also wanted us to draft Baker 1 year later.  Watson didn't excite Jimmy and the FO until after he got himself into trouble - then rinsed and repeated it 21 more times.  

Understanding at least some of that, it doesn't seem like you are aware of which guy has a greater chance of being suspended in 2022.  It's the guy with the character you don't have any complaints about.  22 different female victims of sexual assault and/or misconduct is what Goodell said he has to investigate.  That may not sound like anything big to some Cleveland fans; but there's going to be a lot of people swarming his office with complaints about rewarding this guy.  I'm talking about people that have had a family member or 2 assaulted.  The NFL channel's morning show on Monday already mentioned there's been some growing backlash about it.  They also mentioned that all this talk about our owner and FO saying they did a thorough investigation left out any attempts to reach any of the 22 victims and their attorneys.   

Keep in mind, Goodell is the same guy that began a comprehensive investigation of the accusations of former and present female employees of Daniel Snyder and concluded there was only 1 bad guy in that entire investigation.  It was Jon Gruden of the Las Vegas Raiders not to be confused with the Washington Football Team.. Make sense?  It shouldn't...  Then again, Snyder was one of the wealthy owners involved in the process of approval for improving Roger Goodell's salary.  That may almost sound like Watson might have a chance...   Unfortunately for him, there's been some lingering backlash with that Washington situation ready to unite with those in this situation complaining about the NFL rewarding Watson on Roger's watch.  We shall see...

I wanted him too...I always thought it was strange that a guy who tore up a Bama defense twice, packed full of future NFL players, we wouldn't get. makes me think Hue was right.....lol

It's not that I don't have any complaints about Watson....it's just 2 things.. Its all about if your talent outweighs your issue (Baker's don't)and 2nd  -NFL had had way too many issues like this and those actually convicted  and kept moving for me to have any real concern...vehicular homicides, rape, assaults, murder (Ray Lewis, Henandez), Indy owner, Pats owner, racial discrimination (they just started paying black CTE victims as much as whites because their analysis was blacks were dumber than whites thus it's harder to prove CTE). How can I make Watson 22 allegations that all were thrown out by a Grand jury that usually can indict a ham sandwich my line with all of those things aforementioned? He has elite talent, court cleared him....lets go

I think Watson will get 10 games....there's no telling. Not to be political but they are all conservative wealthy men who all voted to give the nuclear football to someone with 25 allegations (other side ignored ignored Bill's as well). Will they make a example out of Watson or say he served a year already? So inconsistent that it's totally up in the air

On 3/22/2022 at 7:48 AM, Flugel said:

And you haven't clung to just the LOWS Larry?  I've agreed a million times his 2021 season was a massive disappointment Larry.  Just to make you happy - I'll do it again.  Baker sucked last year!  All this is behind us now except for the 18 million $ guaranteed salary preventing potential teams that should be interested from taking the risk on a guy we can't throw away fast enough.  

It's also Baker's immaturity. He just said something stupid about Carolina. His mouth outweighs his talent. Who wants to deal with a guy who needs everything to be right (top 5 oline, rushing attack, defense, landry, hooper, njoku) to succeed but acts like Aaron Rodgers? He has attacked medical staff, former coaches, players about contracts, local and national reporters.....I mean remember he went to the media saying only HE makes the decision to play or not through his injury? How dafuq that makes your GM and HC feel?

People bring up the Steelers playoff win like they didn't watch the Steelers implode with 5 turnovers?? He isn't worth it.....especially at 18 mill....he maynot be worth it for free

On 3/22/2022 at 7:01 AM, Flugel said:

Wonderful!  Welcome to Jacoby Brissett as your new starting QB with Brock Osweiler as an alternative.  I'm not nearly as excited as you are about that.  And now you're complaining to me about the Browns beating Pittsburgh 48-37 AT Pittsburgh  in the playoffs after an 11-5 season just 3 years after 0-16 football (and 1-15 the year before that)? Don't you have to understand where we were at to understand that was fun for us as fans again?

After seeing Indy's last choice of QB (Wentz) - I'd refrain from making them your role model for picking QB solutions today. We're beyond the point of arguing who and who doesn't want Baker.  It's over.  There was a better way to do this. Already explained it a few times in this thread..

EDIT: Just heard a replay of Adam Shefter's report saying teams aren't refraining from Baker for a perceived lack of talent - it's the 18 million $ salary the Browns guaranteed him in his contract for this year. The ESPN show hosts agreed that as soon as the Browns eat that guaranteed salary and cut him - teams like Seattle and/or Carolina probably won't hesitate to bring him in. 

Baker just said something stupid about Carolina...his immaturity is costing him MILLIONS

You should look up the definition of "denial."

Denial would be I don't believe he did anything wrong.

I'm the no.3 approach. It's called REALITY. In REALITY  people do horrible sh@$ and get away with it. Since I'm not a super hero, cop or God then it's not my lane.

GO BROWNS

1 minute ago, hish747 said:

Not for me, for the human brain. You are effected by everything you see. In fact, that's why you posted this topic.

To try to reconcile the dissonance between the Browns signing a star QB and your personal problem with what the QB is alleged to have done. 

It's basically denial, but I would suggest that there is a better way than denial. Dig deeper into the facts.

Yes...for the human brain. Some people are easier to mislead than others and that's why you have a Jonestown, cults, drug addicts ...etc. I was taught a long time ago to not put people, places and things on a pedestal with such ease. Especially a celebrity, athlete and or politician. Topic is posted because for me...it's a matter of recognizing how things are in reality and double standards, hypocrisy....

Facts? Facts are Grand jury can indict a ham sandwich and they didn't indict Watson on a single count. He didn't even get arrested, no mugshot... Need Deeper? Some of the women who performed the massage, went back and performed it multiple times without alerting any supervisor. None of the women said  there was  physical force was used by Watson and the defense attorney didn't even charge him with soliciting (But the Pats owner was).........Besides,  .If 70 million people can give the nuclear football to someone with 25 alleged sexual assaults...How can I have too much of an issue with someone at quarterback with 22 of them? Why go to the NFL for morals when you can't even go to the highest office in the land? So.....yeah

1 minute ago, hish747 said:

What Ben did was very different from what Watson did. Ben actually followed a woman into the bathroom, stationed someone outside the door and raped her in the bathroom.

Watson may or may not have paid for a happy ending by massage providers who were so shocked that they had repeat appointments.

7 minutes ago, hish747 said:

That's not how morals work. You don't don't get to pick and choose where they come from. You get them from everything and everyone you experience. 

Uhm....for you maybe. For how I was raised I was told right and wrong from my parents and to only look at them and my faith for my morals

51 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Sounds like you should go read this: 

 

Thank you.

People are scared of just laying out the facts being that it may seem like you are defending Watson. The bottomline fact is that The Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich and chose not to indict Watson on a single count...ijs