I would vote to bring Ghoulie back. A lot of people are a little too sensitive here. I rarely agreed with him, but that's what it's all about...different opinions. Yeah, he was abrasive, and would tend to go overboard on most discussions, but he did add a little humor to this board.

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

No, and No.

Extralegal measures may be needed.

Come on...you must be up for one final challenge at your age. 

1 minute ago, ATOM said:

hell look what he did with flying j Hell he almost went to prison and sold the company after paying how much in fines ? and others taking the fall for him Dude is a fucking brainless crook

Something I never wanted to accept, but after watching him continue to screw this team up, I'm convinced he's capable of anything.

1 minute ago, mjp28 said:

This isn't Green Bay.

I'm aware of that....it's colder here. 

23 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Why not just make him an offer he can't refuse.      And, ergo, we could have Madonna as the Browns owner.

But not THAT Madonna:

UNITED STATES: MATTHEW MADONNA

When FBI agents arrested 19 alleged leaders and members of the Lucchese crime family in New York and New Jersey in May 2017, the news media played up its association with a pop culture narrative of America organized crime. The Lucchese retained the link – or “the source of inspiration” as the British paper The Guardian put it – with the plot of the 1990 mobster film Goodfellas. The news stories included references to some of the nicknames of those arrested, such as “Paulie Roast Beef” and “Joey Glasses.”

It was a good bust by the Justice Department, and as with previous disruptions of America’s La Cosa Nostra, a federal prosecutor used it as proof that the LCN still operates, even decades after its heyday from the 1920s to the 1990s.

“As today’s charges demonstrate, La Cosa Nostra remains alive and active in New York City, but so does our commitment to eradicate the Mob’s parasitic presence,” Acting U.S. Attorney Joon H. Kim stated in the news release. “The defendants allegedly used violence and threats of violence, as the Mob always has, to make illegal money, to enforce discipline in the ranks, and to silence witnesses. The Mob members and associates charged today will answer for their alleged misdeeds in a court of law.”

The remnants of the LCN still run crime operations in several sections of the New York-New Jersey area. Instead of only five crime families, the feds cite six – the Genovese, Gambino, Lucchese. Columbo and Bonanno of New York and the Decavalcante of New Jersey. The “administration,” or management structure, of each family consists of a boss, underboss and consigliere, followed by the usual underlings: capos, soldiers and associates. The feds cut and paste these facts into each of their indictments of LCN members.

Last January, the “acting boss” of the Bonanno crime family, Joseph Cammarano Jr., 59, his consigliere John Zancocchio, 61, eight Bonanno captains and soldiers in their crew, one Genovese family soldier and a Lucchese soldier were indicted on alleged racketeering conspiracy charges that included extortion and assault with serious injury. Each of the 10 defendants could receive 20 years to life per count of racketeering.

But who are the LCN bosses these days? The prominent media “stars” are long gone.

Today, while there certainly are many intelligent criminals, there is no surplus of the kind of talent there was among those legendary bad men – Al Capone, Charles “Lucky” Luciano, Costello, Genovese, et al – born in the late 19th or early 20th century in Sicily or Italy or as first- or second-generation American immigrants. Also, in the digital age, it’s getting harder to maintain a low profile. Plus, who wants to do “our thing” anymore in the first place? Not many. The smart kids of one-time LCN mobsters tend to go the legitimate, professional route.

Among the “bosses” or key figures in American LCN, there isn’t anyone consistently described in the headlines of the New York newspapers as the “Racket King,” as Vito Genovese was back in the day.

The traditional LCN families do exist in some fashion, and high-profile federal indictments and arrests of them still come and go in New York. And though reduced in scope and in political influence, they remain as villainous as ever.

Let’s give the American LNC boss of the year award to one of the old guys caught up in the criminal actions alleged in the Lucchese bust: Matthew Madonna, now 82 years old, described by police as the Lucchese “street boss.” His underboss, a worse character, is Steven “Wonder Boy” Crea Sr., 70. Their 82-year-old consiglieri is Joseph DiNapoli, and then there’s Crea’s son, Steven, who’s 46. All face life in prison from a list of felony allegations related to racketeering from 2000 to 2017. The charges, based on grand jury indictments, include one murder, two attempted murders, injurious assaults, witness intimidation, trafficking in illegal drugs (cocaine, heroin, prescription opiates and marijuana), robbery, wire and mail fraud, illegal gambling and money laundering and selling untaxed cigarettes.

Madonna, Crea Sr. and Crea Jr. and two others, Christopher Londonio, 44, and Terrance Caldwell, 60, are charged with conspiring to murder Michael Meldish, a 62-year-old veteran hit man found shot in the head in his car in the Bronx in November 2013. Meldish, believed responsible for at least 10 Mob slayings, was a former member of New York’s Purple Gang, a 1980s drug-pushing ring out of the Bronx and Harlem once associated with members of the Lucchese, Genovese and Bonanno families.

Meanwhile, the feds have charged Crea Sr. with fraud in trying to enrich himself from a $25 million expansion of New York Hospital.

In May, federal prosecutors announced they would not seek the death penalty for Madonna, Crea Sr., Crea Jr., Londonio or Caldwell. However, it’s safe to say the LCN is not yet on life support.

Interesting, but not what I was looking for. Why don't you file a suit on behalf of all of us, seeking reasonable damages due to our poor mental state, caused by the actions of the Haslams?...should be good for a couple billion, right?

2 minutes ago, Neo said:

Weren't the Haslam s minority owners of the Steelers? Could someone be giving the Haslams kickbacks to keep the Browns irrelevant? Not into conspiracy theories but no team can even accidentally be as bad as the Browns have been for the past decade. Boycott the Haslams.

I've considered that, but I don't think that even the Steelers could be that diabolical and evil. 

Ok....my suggestion might be a stretch, but we have to be a topic of discussion with Goodell as we continue to embarrass ourselves over and over. By "we" I mean the organization....a direct result of the ownership.

19 minutes ago, tinythinker said:

nope

 

but it would make for another black eye headline for Cleveland

Like one more would make a difference....

If we petition the NFL, with thousands of fans, would they consider terminating the franchise agreement with Haslam and offering it to the highest bidder?

33 minutes ago, Neo said:

 

It did not equal to wins. And I'm guessing there may be a power struggle with the new regime whoever it may be.I really don't know, just guessing.

Yes....DePodesta....the little poindexter prick. 

Haslam is a moron, and continues to prove this over and over. I'm with the guy who turned in his fan membership a couple days ago. Screw the Haslams! I'll be back when they sell the team. 

19 hours ago, cdl15 said:

Not just hyperbole but possibly reality. My fandom has been severally waning since the whole Farmer/Manziel/Shanahan/Hoyer debacle or cellphone-gate. I was super pumped on Kyle Shanahan several years before he signed on with the browns. When he did I was over the moon. And it was an instant fit. I figured if Pettine flamed out that the browns had the future HOFer coach already in the building. And now there is no way in any circumstances Kyle ever even considers the dumpster fire browns. And that list is longer than coaches that actually dream about being the browns coach.

 

Present day after several years of struggling to gain traction the Cleveland Browns actually have the slightest bit of momentum. But in classic CBrowns style they just can't be patient and let the process unfold.  Chances are Haslem is going to fire rookie head coach Freddie kitchens after a possible 7 wins. What the actual FUCK? If he wins today he will have 1 less win then the browns had in the last 3 seasons combined. Unforgivable. Imagine of the cowboys fired JJ after his 1-15 season? But, what seems like always, the browns front brass just can't drown out the outside noise. They are constantly trying to be the smartest person in the room they aren't even in yet. This organization has been in dire need of consistency and continuity. Even if that is consistently being mediocre. The constant demand for lighting in a bottle is a major turn off as a fan.  

 

Josh McDaniels and Urban Meyers is fool's gold at best. And who's to say they choose the browns? IMO the browns are possibly they worst or second worst job if in the HC 2020 hunt.

 

I as a fan am not on the just keep blowing it up till you strike gold in 1 or 2 seasons train. I truly believe it will take the browns 3-6 years to just become an average NFL team. The disfunction has just lasted way too long. Again continuity and positive consistency is needed.  If I was running things I would let the current situation ride. Retain all current talent, retain coaches, retain GM, don't switch QB, and just simply add depth and positions of need thru the draft and FA.  This team is not that far from being seriously relavent. TWO 1K WRS, NFL leading rushers, a defense that actually went from being ranked 22 in the NFL to top 20, and a QB that yea regressed a bit but did start every game and showed glimpses of what we expected. I said from the onset that I predicted and 8-8 year. Bad early (2-6) and finish stronger (5-3). I think with what they have right now this team goes to the playoffs next year with still one of the youngest teams. 

 

Everyone wants to pile on Kitchens. But I see them running basically the same offense they did last year the only difference is the QB is executing the plays he did last year. Accuracy is waaaay down, forcing throws when the situation doesn't call for it, and has become predictable when the play breaks down. Now I'm not saying kitchens has been great. He's been a rookie. He deserves an offseason to adjust and grow and the browns are possibly not going to give it to him. Again firing a rookie head coach in Cleveland after a 7 win season when u had a 0 win season 2 seasons ago is absurd and yet so Cleveland Browns.  And quite honestly I'm just tires of it. I'm tired of wasting my Sundays hoping that they actually build something special but realizing they are just trying to get lucky in the short term. I have enjoyed my time talking browns politics with you guys and debating and sifting thru the dumpster with you folks. Hopefully I'm wrong and the browns drown out the outside noise for once and resist the temptations of blowing it up because of pipe dreams of the next season being different because the faces in town are different. But that wouldn't be the browns we all know and "love". 

 

And btw fuck the outside noise. Any other team in the NFL that has back to back 7 win seasons after a 0win season the "guru" would be extremely high on that team. But not the Browns they the whipping boy of the NFL and they just can't help plucking that low hanging fruit. Sorry for the length of this post. Just wanted to vent and possibly say goodbye to you guys my friends. 

If worst comes to worst I finally have tapped out from my current stance and just ain't that excited at the optimism of "There is always next year"

 

Peace,

Cdl15

There's nothing wrong with your attitude. It's not easy being a Browns fan under the circumstances we've faced for the last 20 years. I don't necessarily agree with some of your evaluation, though. I was convinced after 8 games, that Kitchens could not find his way out of this mess. He should have never been hired as HC a year ago, and the Haslams realized their mistake. I'm all for stability, but when it becomes clear that the situation had not improved over 16 games, screw stability. The sooner you make  change, the sooner things will improve. The HC job here, is really one of the best opportunities, but it's not for somebody like McDaniels, or Urban Meyer. Ron Rivera would be ideal, in my opinion. We need a proven winner, who is not intimidated by egotistical prima dona players. The theory that a good HC doesn't want to come here, due to the quick firing is bullshit. Anyone, in any profession should not be influenced by that crap. If you are the best at your job, you will succeed. If you are not confident in your ability, don't apply, because all of your faults will be exposed here. If you choose to give up on the Browns, you're stronger than me. Screw the other guys that tell you piss off. In 2030, we will be having the same discussion.

On 12/24/2019 at 5:40 PM, The Gipper said:

The original proposition was the Bengals draft young at 1 vs the Bengals draft burrow at 1. Not young will be drafted at 1 vs Burrow will be drafted at 1. So you're statement above isn't sticking to the original proposition.  Its changing the original proposition. 

I agree that by the Bengals trading  the #1 pick, the original proposition is changed.   We/I never thought about the possibility of the Bengals trading down until I heard it stated on the radio. 

Nope....if the Bengals don't pick Young at #1, you lose. It's that simple. Quit trying to manipulate the jury.

57 minutes ago, mohican said:

This year we watched the Kitchens sink.....

We also watched the Kitchens stink...

On 12/16/2019 at 2:24 PM, BrownsfaninPa said:

Oh don't worry about me changing my user name, I wont be on here to care anymore. Besides I just signed up on a Bengals message board, so you can bleed brown all you want, I will be freeing myself from the "woe is me" fan base .

Bengals???...if you are making a change, why not a winning team like the Ravens...or even the Steelers. Not that I would do that. I've considered leaving football completely, though. Maybe getting more invested in another sport. I lost my interest in baseball when the Dolans bought the Indians, and have never really been interested in the NBA. Like Sam Rutigliano once said..."There are 500 million Chinese that don't even know we played a game"...or something like that.

It's time to fire the entire coaching staff...again. This time, bring in an experienced HC ( Rivera ). Baker needs to be pushed....we need to sign another qb, and make Mayfield compete for the starting qb position. He got lazy in the off season, living off his moderate success from 2018. He's lost his fire, and needs to earn his role again.

I would hire him today to replace Kitchens.

They look unbeatable. I don't think even the 49ers will beat them. It looks like Jackson took some hits last night, so that's really the only way I see that they don't win it all. If someone takes Jackson out, they come down to earth, but I have to admit, Ingram looks great. I give most of the credit to Harbaugh for finding an O.C. and building an offense tailored to Jackson.

20 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

OK...while this is a very serious situation, I have to admit...this made me laugh my ass off!

13 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

you are missing something. The Bills had plenty of fans there. I was there. They got loud when the Browns offense was on the field.

Which, btw, the Bills' fans were some of the nicest fans you could have in your own home stadium.

Exactly.....how is it Mayfield didn't pick up on this?...how is it that no one made him aware of it? I'm pretty sure the fans know how to react at the stadium, since we were doing it before his father was born.

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

How many times we going to try and run that shuffle pass too, when it hasn't worked yet. Or those flanker screens that are constantly getting blown up?  

I hope it really is true Baker told the OL to false start to save Freddie from his repeated bad play selection. 

The shovel pass needs the element of surprise, and the right situation to work. I have seen other teams do it in the red zone with good success, going back to Elway. However, I have never seen anyone do it near their own 20 yard line. Bottom line...the playcalling sucks this season...worst I've ever seen. 

Uh..oh...there went a few brain cells. And I don't think he had that many to start with.

On 11/5/2019 at 7:49 PM, Canton Mike said:

I will be 73 years old the 30th of this month. I love my Browns...Always have & always will. In good times & bad, it's much like my marriage (50 years in 2020 with my Bride, Colleen). If you truly love something or someone, that love & loyalty (AND hopes, wishes, & dreams) never die.....no matter how bad things may currently seem. I'm in this for the long haul & we'll weather this current storm.

GO BROWNS!!......There's a light at the end of this tunnel & I think it looks BRIGHT! 

Mike

ps: I enjoyed the '64 Champs & I hope (and plan) to see you younger folks enjoy the next one!

 

 

 

Thank God you're here! I was getting the idea that maybe everyone here was younger than me. I'll be 70 in February. Still the same / love hate relationship with the Browns. I remember listening to that '64 Championship game on my 3 transistor radio that had no speaker...only an earplug. 

17 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The Steelers got called for a ridiculous interference call that set up the Colts game-winning field goal Sunday, except that Vinatieri shanked the 41 yarder. It was the definition of an "uncatchable ball". 

This thread consists of Browns fans who are struggling to come to grips with the idea that their team is completely shitting the bed this season. It's always easier to blame someone else than to look in the mirror. 

And if you really think the NFL has a conspiracy against your favorite team, and they will never let your favorite team win, then why the fuck are you still watching it? 

Anyone who watches these games can see it. I wouldn't call it a full blown conspiracy against the Browns, but there are certain refs that love to kill our chances at crucial points in games. Maybe it's because of the complaints from the players...maybe some refs hate Cleveland. You know....like the rest of the world. To think that these refs are completely neutral in every case is naive. The pattern I've noticed, is that once we get called for a couple holding, off sides, or other minor penalties, they seem to pile on, and call penalties when there are none. In my opinion, there is a hell of a lot more to this than you think. How do you explain the numerous calls against us, that even the unbiased announcers don't see?....and the numerous non calls of blatant penalties by our opponents, that don't get called in every game? I know it happens to other teams sometimes, too...but I really don't care about the other teams.

Mayfield didn't break the rookie td record with no talent. This coaching an offensive scheme is killing him. He has lost confidence and refuses to throw the ball downfield when he has an open receiver. I would almost like to see him benched for a game or 2 to maybe get his head straight. He's only 24 years old, after all.