Now It's The Right To Murder A Born Child.

[Kosar_For_President]

Well, as the dude would say, "that's just, like, your opinion man" a fly and a human life, at any stage, is incomparable. Every human life snuffed out by some skank has the potential to be a da Vinci, an Einstein, a Bach, I think you get where I'm going. A fly has the potential to be a fly.

 

I'll never support a woman's right to choose murder as a convenience. Medical purposes are one thing but as I said earlier and no one disputed, the pearl rd health center doesn't have a waiting room full of rape victims

 

Yea, who knows a women's body better than a man.

[The Cysko Kid]

Yea, who knows a women's body better than a man.

 

That old hat? I don't give a hoot what they do with their bodies. Get yourself an IUD and I won't say shit about what they choose to do.

[Kosar_For_President]

That old hat? I don't give a hoot what they do with their bodies. Get yourself an IUD and I won't say shit about what they choose to do.

Yea ask a wait for it.....women about that

[The Cysko Kid]

Yea ask a wait for it.....women about that

 

Yeah, bro, I don't know any women.

[Kosar_For_President]

That old hat? I don't give a hoot what they do with their bodies. Get yourself an IUD and I won't say shit about what they choose to do.

 

Old hat? That's pretty much the whole Fucking argument sense 1972.

[Kosar_For_President]

Yeah, bro, I don't know any women.

 

That was my guess

[The Cysko Kid]

That was my guess

 

Yeah man, I've only got two kids and a third on the way. Probably about 80% of my Facebook are women and I was raised by a single mother with two little sisters. I'm still allowed to have my own opinion for what its worth. You'll notice i've never called it anything but an opinion.

[Kosar_For_President]

Yeah man, I've only got two kids and a third on the way. Probably about 80% of my Facebook are women and I was raised by a single mother with two little sisters. I'm still allowed to have my own opinion for what its worth. You'll notice i've never called it anything but an opinion.

 

Simma, down now Cysko, I was joking. How do they feel about being told what they can do with their bodies? How do they feel more attention is brought upon abortion than girls getting raped in Stubenville?

[VaporTrail]

Well, as the dude would say, "that's just, like, your opinion man" a fly and a human life, at any stage, is incomparable. Every human life snuffed out by some skank has the potential to be a da Vinci, an Einstein, a Bach, I think you get where I'm going. A fly has the potential to be a fly.

 

I'll never support a woman's right to choose murder as a convenience. Medical purposes are one thing but as I said earlier and no one disputed, the pearl rd health center doesn't have a waiting room full of rape victims

 

They also have the potential to be a Pol Pot, Hitler, OJ Simpson, Adam Lanza, or Scott Stapp. Just because something has the potential to be a human, it doesn't make it worth protecting. And that's fine, that you're not okay with abortion, the majority of the country is, and it's not murder. You don't know the reasons everyone gets an abortion, and if you think every woman who has the procedure done is a skank, then I feel sorry for you.

[The Cysko Kid]

They also have the potential to be a Pol Pot, Hitler, OJ Simpson, Adam Lanza, or Scott Stapp. Just because something has the potential to be a human, it doesn't make it worth protecting. And that's fine, that you're not okay with abortion, the majority of the country is, and it's not murder. You don't know the reasons everyone gets an abortion, and if you think every woman who has the procedure done is a skank, then I feel sorry for you.

 

 

Well you're very naive. That's cute, but not a great trait for a scientist. You can point to all the theory you like and that's all well and good. I think you'll find I've come out in support of abortion for rape and incest and for legitimate medical reasons. But when was the last time you, vaportrail, were at an abortion clinic? One of my accounts is the pearl road health center. An abortion clinic. I'm there quarterly, that's four times a year, plus service. I know who is in that clinic. But you don't know. You weren't there. All you know is what you're told.

 

By the way, before my first son was born we lost four babies. My wife had to get what amounted to four abortions, for legit medical reasons. In that case, its not at a seedy clinic with no name on the door. It's at a real hospital performed by a real obgyn and it's not called an abortion. It's generally called a dialate and curette (or dnc) no legit doctor would call that an abortion.

 

Abortions are elective and they are killing a human life. You can only see this issue in black and white and I feel sorry for you. A scientist in the medical field ought to know the context difference between a dnc and an abortion.

 

 

By the way. Scott Stapp. Lol.

[The Cysko Kid]

Simma, down now Cysko, I was joking. How do they feel about being told what they can do with their bodies? How do they feel more attention is brought upon abortion than girls getting raped in Stubenville?

 

They know that I see things from many angles and that my views are complicated. But to be honest I wouldn't associate with the type of woman who relies on abortions to provide birth control, and that is what the issue is. Not medical reasons. It's easy to say the woman's body the woman's body blah blah blah. You know who says that? No offense, but its those who've never had to have the responsibility of caring for a young helpless life. I notice you and vapor, two guys with no kids are the vocal abortion supporters. Let's hear from some of the fellas with kids. Leg? Diehard? Nunboy? Where you at?

[VaporTrail]

Well you're very naive. That's cute, but not a great trait for a scientist. You can point to all the theory you like and that's all well and good. I think you'll find I've come out in support of abortion for rape and incest and for legitimate medical reasons. But when was the last time you, vaportrail, were at an abortion clinic? One of my accounts is the pearl road health center. An abortion clinic. I'm there quarterly, that's four times a year, plus service. I know who is in that clinic. But you don't know. You weren't there. All you know is what you're told.

 

By the way, before my first son was born we lost four babies. My wife had to get what amounted to four abortions, for legit medical reasons. In that case, its not at a seedy clinic with no name on the door. It's at a real hospital performed by a real obgyn and it's not called an abortion. It's generally called a dialate and curette (or dnc) no legit doctor would call that an abortion.

 

Abortions are elective and they are killing a human life. You can only see this issue in black and white and I feel sorry for you. A scientist in the medical field ought to know the context difference between a dnc and an abortion.

 

 

By the way. Scott Stapp. Lol.

 

I actually live not too far from one of the four(?) in Ohio, and I know that they're not seedy places (though they would be if abortion was outlawed).

 

In the case of any abortion consideration, you really have to conisder two deaths. You're taking away the potential life of the child if you abort. If you don't, then you're potentially killing any dreams that you might not have if the pregnancy was unplanned. If you're 20 years old and two years into college, you're probably going to be destitute if you keep the child and drop out of school. Student loan debt and the money necessary to raise a kid? In my opinion, it's more irresponsible to have the kid than to abort it. You're the one who's seeing the issue in black and white by calling anyone who aborts an unplanned pregnancy a skank.

[Kosar_For_President]

They know that I see things from many angles and that my views are complicated. But to be honest I wouldn't associate with the type of woman who relies on abortions to provide birth control, and that is what the issue is. Not medical reasons. It's easy to say the woman's body the woman's body blah blah blah. You know who says that? No offense, but its those who've never had to have the responsibility of caring for a young helpless life. I notice you and vapor, two guys with no kids are the vocal abortion supporters. Let's hear from some of the fellas with kids. Leg? Diehard? Nunboy? Where you at?

 

That a valid point I don't have kids. My sister has 2 and chooses pro choice. I agree, a women should not use it for birth control, but until you are in her shoes you never know. Mind you this, I am a vocal supporter of the women making the choice because it is not against the law. I am pro rights first and personal views second.

[Kosar_For_President]

You're the one who's seeing the issue in black and white by calling anyone who aborts an unplanned pregnancy a skank.

 

Agreed.

[Kosar_For_President]

I had a girl as a friend have an abortion, a difficult choice. I had a friend tell me how wrong that was to do when the dude has a warrant for his arrest out for 6 years back child support. Now that is some funny shit.

 

Cysko, condoms break, the pill is not 100%, etc. So now were are talking about a abstinence? Who is going to pay for a kid the women can't feed?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Rather then get into a lengthy argument or debate, I'll say I'm against abortion unless it is rape/incest or the mothers life depends on it. That is all. I also think that the father has some rights when an abortion is decided, but I know that most of the time they are never even told.

[The Cysko Kid]

I had a girl as a friend have an abortion, a difficult choice. I had a friend tell me how wrong that was to do when the dude has a warrant for his arrest out for 6 years back child support. Now that is some funny shit.

 

Cysko, condoms break, the pill is not 100%, etc. So now were are talking about a abstinence? Who is going to pay for a kid the women can't feed?

 

 

Yeah condoms break, once in a while. Pills only work 99.9% of the time. There's IUDs. There's depo shots. If you're on the pill and using condoms, even the most liberal of liberals can't dispute the efficiency of that combination. If you're using that stuff properly and you still get pregnant, your kid might be Jesus. At the very least that is one tough ass embryo who bucked all the odds and survived. I'd recommend trying adoption.

[The Cysko Kid]

I actually live not too far from one of the four(?) in Ohio, and I know that they're not seedy places (though they would be if abortion was outlawed).

 

In the case of any abortion consideration, you really have to conisder two deaths. You're taking away the potential life of the child if you abort. If you don't, then you're potentially killing any dreams that you might not have if the pregnancy was unplanned. If you're 20 years old and two years into college, you're probably going to be destitute if you keep the child and drop out of school. Student loan debt and the money necessary to raise a kid? In my opinion, it's more irresponsible to have the kid than to abort it. You're the one who's seeing the issue in black and white by calling anyone who aborts an unplanned pregnancy a skank.

 

 

1. There's more than four abortion clinics in Ohio. There's more than four in the Cleveland Metropolitan area

 

2. There's more options than abortion and keeping the child

 

3. Protection is cheap, viable and easy to use.

 

4. There's a morning after pill which is both cheaper, and a better option than an abortion.

 

5. In the last two years I've been to the abortion clinic at least six times. I'd venture to guess that is six more times than you. I'd say I'm more qualified to opine that its frequented by skanks than you are to say it is not.

[VaporTrail]

Yeah condoms break, once in a while. Pills only work 99.9% of the time. There's IUDs. There's depo shots. If you're on the pill and using condoms, even the most liberal of liberals can't dispute the efficiency of that combination. If you're using that stuff properly and you still get pregnant, your kid might be Jesus. At the very least that is one tough ass embryo who bucked all the odds and survived. I'd recommend trying adoption.

 

That's assuming perfect use. You ever try to take something at the same time every day? Any form of bc outside of generic pill/condom is usually outside the financial capability of a college student or blue collar worker.

 

1. There's more than four abortion clinics in Ohio. There's more than four in the Cleveland Metropolitan area

 

2. There's more options than abortion and keeping the child

 

3. Protection is cheap, viable and easy to use.

 

4. There's a morning after pill which is both cheaper, and a better option than an abortion.

 

5. In the last two years I've been to the abortion clinic at least six times. I'd venture to guess that is six more times than you. I'd say I'm more qualified to opine that its frequented by skanks than you are to say it is not.

 

1. You're right, there are 11.

 

2. Adoption isn't as easy as you'd think. The girl has to give birth to the child, then give it away. That's understandably difficult. Plus, the girl might also have to deal with the shame of carrying a bastard child.

 

3. Some forms, but like anything else, it's not perfect. And when you get a couple that has sex 300 times a year, suddenly that 95% efficacy doesn't seem like such good odds.

 

4. Plan B is a hormonal cocktail that really fucks with the female physiology. It more or less forces a period. Plus, I don't really get how you can be for Plan B but against abortion. You could still expel a fertilized egg with Plan B. It does nothing to prevent a zygote from being formed (not sure why this would matter anyways, since you define life as beginning with a heartbeat).

 

5. And that's a sufficient reason to make it illegal?

 

 

Abortion is an option. I think it should be the last option, but the fact that it's on the table is better for us as a society.

[The Cysko Kid]

That's assuming perfect use. You ever try to take something at the same time every day? Any form of bc outside of generic pill/condom is usually outside the financial capability of a college student or blue collar worker.

 

 

 

1. You're right, there are 11.

 

2. Adoption isn't as easy as you'd think. The girl has to give birth to the child, then give it away. That's understandably difficult. Plus, the girl might also have to deal with the shame of carrying a bastard child.

 

3. Some forms, but like anything else, it's not perfect. And when you get a couple that has sex 300 times a year, suddenly that 95% efficacy doesn't seem like such good odds.

 

4. Plan B is a hormonal cocktail that really fucks with the female physiology. It more or less forces a period. Plus, I don't really get how you can be for Plan B but against abortion. You could still expel a fertilized egg with Plan B. It does nothing to prevent a zygote from being formed (not sure why this would matter anyways, since you define life as beginning with a heartbeat).

 

5. And that's a sufficient reason to make it illegal?

 

 

Abortion is an option. I think it should be the last option, but the fact that it's on the table is better for us as a society.

 

 

See, now we're getting somewhere with this discussion. I mentioned the depo shot. That costs a fair piece less than an abortion which, last I heard is somewhere between 400 and 600 dollars and as far as I know is not covered by any form of insurance. Your standard IUD costs something like 100-150 dollars and is implanted in the uterus thus eliminating the need to take the pill every day. Plan B is typically used well in advance of the six-nine week mark where the embryo develops a heartbeat. I'm not an unreasonable person. I don't consider a simple fertilized egg a human life, but once that human life has it's own autonomous heart that starts beating it is a human life, no matter how rudimentary. All these options are cheaper and easier than relying on an abortion. An Abortion is a cruelty. A selfish, wanton act, that is completely preventable with the most basic of precautions taken. Listen, if a woman wants to be sexually active and doesn't want to use condoms (I understand that, I think as males we all do) and isn't able to reliably take the pill an IUD is a very good option.

 

An abortion should only really become an option if there is a medical emergency that threatens the prospective mothers life, or if the pregnancy was forced on her against her will. I'm sorry, but with all the advances in medicine and all the options available I just can't support abortion as an acceptable means of birth control.

 

Not to mention, in reality, it's a surgery and thus the single most expensive form of birth control. Nobody thinks about that, and nobody mentions it, but it's true. It just doesn't make any logical sense.

 

I think we can all agree that a good, comprehensive program of sexual education and awareness could prevent the vast majority of elective abortions by fully explaining the options available to sexually active women and a thorough discussion of the costs of the various forms of birth control including abortions. The faction of people that refuse to support any birth control and then sit there and bitch about abortions are people that I can't understand. I feel strongly about abortion and I think it's a terrible, just terrible act of cruelty, but I am in full support of birth control education and distribution.

[VaporTrail]

See, now we're getting somewhere with this discussion. I mentioned the depo shot. That costs a fair piece less than an abortion which, last I heard is somewhere between 400 and 600 dollars and as far as I know is not covered by any form of insurance. Your standard IUD costs something like 100-150 dollars and is implanted in the uterus thus eliminating the need to take the pill every day. Plan B is typically used well in advance of the six-nine week mark where the embryo develops a heartbeat. I'm not an unreasonable person. I don't consider a simple fertilized egg a human life, but once that human life has it's own autonomous heart that starts beating it is a human life, no matter how rudimentary. All these options are cheaper and easier than relying on an abortion. An Abortion is a cruelty. A selfish, wanton act, that is completely preventable with the most basic of precautions taken. Listen, if a woman wants to be sexually active and doesn't want to use condoms (I understand that, I think as males we all do) and isn't able to reliably take the pill an IUD is a very good option.

 

An abortion should only really become an option if there is a medical emergency that threatens the prospective mothers life, or if the pregnancy was forced on her against her will. I'm sorry, but with all the advances in medicine and all the options available I just can't support abortion as an acceptable means of birth control.

 

Not to mention, in reality, it's a surgery and thus the single most expensive form of birth control. Nobody thinks about that, and nobody mentions it, but it's true. It just doesn't make any logical sense.

 

I think we can all agree that a good, comprehensive program of sexual education and awareness could prevent the vast majority of elective abortions by fully explaining the options available to sexually active women and a thorough discussion of the costs of the various forms of birth control including abortions. The faction of people that refuse to support any birth control and then sit there and bitch about abortions are people that I can't understand. I feel strongly about abortion and I think it's a terrible, just terrible act of cruelty, but I am in full support of birth control education and distribution.

 

IUDs are 500-1000 bucks. And if I'm getting an IUD, something that's going to be in my vagina for years at a time, I'm definitely not going to want a generic. There are definitely a ton of risks associated with IUDs that many people would rather not worry about. I take issue with your view of bc as a be-all, end-all, when they really aren't. And again, we'll disagree on the definition of human life. Something that looks like a headless chicken, with next to zero brain function and a beating heart isn't human.

 

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/iud-4245.htm

 

And I'm not arguing that abortion is not an expensive form of bc. 500 bucks is just as much, but you're not taking into account that it's the last line of defense. Abortions are performed because all other options are exhausted at that point.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

That's assuming perfect use. You ever try to take something at the same time every day? Any form of bc outside of generic pill/condom is usually outside the financial capability of a college student or blue collar worker.

 

 

 

1. You're right, there are 11.

 

2. Adoption isn't as easy as you'd think. The girl has to give birth to the child, then give it away. That's understandably difficult. Plus, the girl might also have to deal with the shame of carrying a bastard child.

 

3. Some forms, but like anything else, it's not perfect. And when you get a couple that has sex 300 times a year, suddenly that 95% efficacy doesn't seem like such good odds.

 

4. Plan B is a hormonal cocktail that really fucks with the female physiology. It more or less forces a period. Plus, I don't really get how you can be for Plan B but against abortion. You could still expel a fertilized egg with Plan B. It does nothing to prevent a zygote from being formed (not sure why this would matter anyways, since you define life as beginning with a heartbeat).

 

5. And that's a sufficient reason to make it illegal?

 

 

Abortion is an option. I think it should be the last option, but the fact that it's on the table is better for us as a society.

 

I don't know about where you live Vapor, but my wife is a Manager and 90 percent of the female employees that work for her are single mothers, i.e. never were married. 4 are pregnant now, not married. Its extremely commonplace now. There is no more stigma to being a single mother like there used to be.

[The Cysko Kid]

IUDs are 500-1000 bucks. And if I'm getting an IUD, something that's going to be in my vagina for years at a time, I'm definitely not going to want a generic. There are definitely a ton of risks associated with IUDs that many people would rather not worry about. I take issue with your view of bc as a be-all, end-all, when they really aren't. And again, we'll disagree on the definition of human life. Something that looks like a headless chicken, with next to zero brain function and a beating heart isn't human.

 

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/iud-4245.htm

 

And I'm not arguing that abortion is not an expensive form of bc. 500 bucks is just as much, but you're not taking into account that it's the last line of defense. Abortions are performed because all other options are exhausted at that point.

 

Sometimes they're performed because all other options are exhausted, but that's very misleading. If all other options are exhausted that would mean other options have been attempted and if that were the actual case 90+% of the women getting abortions wouldn't even be pregnant.

 

Are you really going to sit there and say that birth control is failing left and right and all that's left for these poor poor women is abortions? You know and I know that is not true.

[VaporTrail]

Are you really going to sit there and say that birth control is failing left and right and all that's left for these poor poor women is abortions? You know and I know that is not true.

 

Absolutely not, but what I'm saying is that you want to take this option away from the people who used birth control, but it failed. See the distinction? I get that abortions are performed on lots of people who could have been more responsible with condoms or pills or what have you. Your suggestion means that a person who used the pill and condoms every time, but still got pregnant, must carry the child to term. I'm much better off with a fetus serving as collateral damage than the life that the parent(s) would be giving up. Childbirth is no joke.

[VaporTrail]

I don't know about where you live Vapor, but my wife is a Manager and 90 percent of the female employees that work for her are single mothers, i.e. never were married. 4 are pregnant now, not married. Its extremely commonplace now. There is no more stigma to being a single mother like there used to be.

 

That's funny, I was raised in Mentor, Ohio. One girl I went to high school with got pregnant at 18. Her parents shipped her off to West Virginia to live with her grandmother. The girl didn't want to move there, but her parents thought it best. There is still a stigma.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

That's funny, I was raised in Mentor, Ohio. One girl I went to high school with got pregnant at 18. Her parents shipped her off to West Virginia to live with her grandmother. The girl didn't want to move there, but her parents thought it best. There is still a stigma.

 

Oh, I'm sure there is still somewhat of a stigma, but nothing like there used to be.

[The Cysko Kid]

Absolutely not, but what I'm saying is that you want to take this option away from the people who used birth control, but it failed. See the distinction? I get that abortions are performed on lots of people who could have been more responsible with condoms or pills or what have you. Your suggestion means that a person who used the pill and condoms every time, but still got pregnant, must carry the child to term. I'm much better off with a fetus serving as collateral damage than the life that the parent(s) would be giving up. Childbirth is no joke.

 

 

I'm not necessarily trying to take the option away, just limit the time in which they have to have said abortion. You've got six-nine weeks before the heart starts beating. What's the problem with fitting it in before it becomes a living human?

[VaporTrail]

I'm not necessarily trying to take the option away, just limit the time in which they have to have said abortion. You've got six-nine weeks before the heart starts beating. What's the problem with fitting it in before it becomes a living human?

 

The problem is in detecting that pregnancy during that time frame. Fetal hearts start developing at six weeks. You're going to tell me most people know they're pregnant 6 weeks in? Realistically, I'll give you 8 weeks before the pregnancy is recognized, that's two missed periods unless you have an irregular cycle, in which case you're still in the dark. So, you have a week to get the abortion in before the fetal heart starts beating (even though it most likely already has). I don't think the time frame you're suggesting is feasible in the slightest.

[The Cysko Kid]

The problem is in detecting that pregnancy during that time frame. Fetal hearts start developing at six weeks. You're going to tell me most people know they're pregnant 6 weeks in? Realistically, I'll give you 8 weeks before the pregnancy is recognized, that's two missed periods unless you have an irregular cycle, in which case you're still in the dark. So, you have a week to get the abortion in before the fetal heart starts beating (even though it most likely already has). I don't think the time frame you're suggesting is feasible in the slightest.

 

And I think that if we decided to go with your ideas we'd be a immoral nation of child murderers. I mean, more than we already are. In the interest of compromise I went way more liberal than I really feel on the subject which is similar to how Diehard feels. No Abortions, period, the only exceptions allowable being Rape, Incest, and the imminent death of the the parent if the pregnancy proceeds.

 

Your starry eyed bullshit about the death of some poor girls dreams fails to move me. If their hopes and dreams were so important they should have exercised a little bit of caution.

 

I'd be the first to mandate Birth Control into health care. I'd be on board with a much more stringent program of making birth control available to shiftless layabouts who 'can't afford' it. Free even. I'd be happy to support free IUDs to the type of high risk people who either can't figure out how to use a condom, or can't manage to keep their head on straight enough to take one pill a day.

 

I'd even be ok with a program of offering a voluntary one time stipend to sterilize people. Offer $2500 dollars, no medical costs and throw in 30 vicodin with a single refill to get those tubes tied, and I guarantee that the abortion rate drops astronomically because that's a deal those loose ladies that think nothing about scrambling a child's brains and dragging it dead from the womb woudn't miss for the world.

 

Now would that cover every hard luck story of some girl you knew that had to get an abortion because yadda yadda yadda? No, clearly not, but it would cover a great deal of them. A great deal.

[Kosar_For_President]

That's funny, I was raised in Mentor, Ohio. One girl I went to high school with got pregnant at 18. Her parents shipped her off to West Virginia to live with her grandmother. The girl didn't want to move there, but her parents thought it best. There is still a stigma.

 

That's what happened in the 50's.