VaporTrail Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 And I think that if we decided to go with your ideas we'd be a immoral nation of child murderers. I mean, more than we already are. In the interest of compromise I went way more liberal than I really feel on the subject which is similar to how Diehard feels. No Abortions, period, the only exceptions allowable being Rape, Incest, and the imminent death of the the parent if the pregnancy proceeds. Your starry eyed bullshit about the death of some poor girls dreams fails to move me. If their hopes and dreams were so important they should have exercised a little bit of caution. I'd be the first to mandate Birth Control into health care. I'd be on board with a much more stringent program of making birth control available to shiftless layabouts who 'can't afford' it. Free even. I'd be happy to support free IUDs to the type of high risk people who either can't figure out how to use a condom, or can't manage to keep their head on straight enough to take one pill a day. I'd even be ok with a program of offering a voluntary one time stipend to sterilize people. Offer $2500 dollars, no medical costs and throw in 30 vicodin with a single refill to get those tubes tied, and I guarantee that the abortion rate drops astronomically because that's a deal those loose ladies that think nothing about scrambling a child's brains and dragging it dead from the womb woudn't miss for the world. Now would that cover every hard luck story of some girl you knew that had to get an abortion because yadda yadda yadda? No, clearly not, but it would cover a great deal of them. A great deal. Good luck getting the majority of women to agree to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 So if I assume correctly some of you here think that 1 day after birth is fair game to abort, right? Just curious as to why not a week or a month, or until the fetus, or tumor, is able to fend for itself? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 So if I assume correctly some of you here think that 1 day after birth is fair game to abort, right? Just curious as to why not a week or a month, or until the fetus, or tumor, is able to fend for itself? WSS lol, who's advocating that? I guess we could call it a fourth-trimester abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 lol, who's advocating that? I guess we could call it a fourth-trimester abortion. That was what I got from the article. I wasn't sure if anyone here agreed with that position. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Federal judge rules morning-after pill must be available for women of all ages Published April 05, 2013 FoxNews.com AP A federal judge ruled Friday that the morning-after pill known as Plan B must be made available over the counter for women of all ages. The decision on the controversial subject comes after lengthy legal battles over who should have access to the pill and at what age. The Food and Drug Administration had initially decided to allow the emergency pill to be available for young teens. But Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius overruled the FDA in late 2011, and the agency limited availability without a prescription to women 17 and older. The decision Friday by U.S. District Judge Edward Korman ordered the FDA to make the pill, commonly referred to as the abortion pill, available for all ages. Korman accused the FDA of "intolerable delays" in reviewing a petition seeking broad access to the drug, likening the process to an "administrative agency filibuster." "The plaintiffs should not be forced to endure, nor should the agency's misconduct be rewarded by, an exercise that permits the FDA to engage in further delays and obstruction," he wrote. The judge ordered the change to be completed in a month. The opinion is sure to rile conservatives and other pro-life groups, who consider the morning-after pill -- in many cases -- to act as an abortion-inducing drug. The case started in 2005, and Korman initially ruled in 2009 that 17 year-olds should have over-the-counter access. The FDA then moved to allow that access to all ages, until Sebelius stepped in. Korman wrote in his opinion that "the FDA bowed to political pressure emanating from the White House." Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/05/federal-judge-rules-morning-after-abortion-pill-must-be-available-for-women-all/#ixzz2PbCSWRzS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Link Kansas lawmakers have approved a a sweeping anti-abortion bill that bans Planned Parenthood from providing sex education materials in schools and defines life as beginning at conception. What? If they made abortion illegal, fine. But remove education materials? And...back to the 50's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Planned parenthood isn't the only source of sex education materials. BTW, you do know the origins of planned parenthood? I prefer to have them OUT of our schools. Abortions <> "planned parenthood" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Link Kansas lawmakers have approved a a sweeping anti-abortion bill that bans Planned Parenthood from providing sex education materials in schools and defines life as beginning at conception. What? If they made abortion illegal, fine. But remove education materials? And...back to the 50's. That's just a late April fools right? Does Kansas want the highest teen pregnancy rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Planned parenthood isn't the only source of sex education materials. BTW, you do know the origins of planned parenthood? I prefer to have them OUT of our schools. Abortions <> "planned parenthood" Yea, a 70 year old lady putting a condom on a banana is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 The human (embryonic) heart beats 21 days after uterine wall implantation. Which is about the same time as "oh shit, I think I missed my period." The spiritual/religious side in me would argue that "life" begins at fertilization and that abortions equal murder. But the "not-really-a" scientist in me makes the first statement - arguing that abortion after there is a heartbeat equals murder. A woman has plenty of right to choose what to do with her body. That includes responsibility. What about the "potential" woman she's carrying in her womb? What about her right to choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Yea, a 70 year old lady putting a condom on a banana is. Actually more like an overpaid Union teacher. With a Masters degree. Who will have been retired for 20 years on the taxpayers dime by the age of 70. Just saying....... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 The human (embryonic) heart beats 21 days after uterine wall implantation. Which is about the same time as "oh shit, I think I missed my period." The spiritual/religious side in me would argue that "life" begins at fertilization and that abortions equal murder. But the "not-really-a" scientist in me makes the first statement - arguing that abortion after there is a heartbeat equals murder. A woman has plenty of right to choose what to do with her body. That includes responsibility. What about the "potential" woman she's carrying in her womb? What about her right to choose? My problem with taking the spiritual/religious defense is that it makes God the world's most prolific abortionist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 My problem with taking the spiritual/religious defense is that it makes God the world's most prolific abortionist. God does everything for a reason Check and Mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Yes you are right just about everything that separates civilization from the law of nature is artificial and probably squeamish. There is probably no real reason not to kill my neighbor and eat him and screw his wife if I'm stronger. Aside from some morals that we've made up there's probably no reason to avoid child porn or anything else we've decided is off limits. And morality is probably all phony wether you get pissed off because you think its religious based or some stupid s*** you made up on your own. Seriously if you smear add people who are upset by graphic depictions of death itself why not just say to the Sandy Hook parents who gives a damn? Screw you. A couple dozen kids compared to the thousands die around the world every minute is nothing. I guess it's just about how squeamish you choose to be, bud. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Well the reason not to kill your neighbor and bang his wife I'm guessing us societal backlash. Laws, other people stunning you, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 My problem with taking the spiritual/religious defense is that it makes God the world's most prolific abortionist. Which is why I stick to the heartbeat clock. I can still feel "safe" spiritually though that might be "cheating" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Well the reason not to kill your neighbor and bang his wife I'm guessing us societal backlash. Laws, other people stunning you, etc. Societal backlash? No morals involved here at all right? Fair enough. Well in feral society I would suppose that after the alpha male gets done eating the rest of the corpse is shared amongst the others? It is Nature's Way right? Are we not men? No, Dr Moreau, we aren`t. My point is that civilization itself is a vain attempt to override the natural urges we all feel as mammals. If you are angry that it seems to stem from a 2000 year old story book fair enough. To me that seems no more or less valid then coming from a political action committee. For money and power. Morality is situational at best. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 What exactly are you trying to say? That morals began with the Bible? With religion in general? All animals just don't go bat shit and attack each other. Primates work together and have some sort of society. Elephants are pretty crazy with all the human like stuff they do as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 I'm saying we make it up as we go along. My theory about the Bible is that it was a smart move on the part of the Romans who had hoped to rule the entire world. If you can convince somebody that no matter how badly you are treated now after you die things will be just great.... Or if a politician says you know it's the right thing to do to blah blah blah Well you should get the idea. I think there is something innate in humans that causes curiosity. Also I'm trying to point out to the folks who think we are squeamish because we take human life too seriously........ Well there will always be something that upset even them. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Are we not men? WSS We are Devo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 The human (embryonic) heart beats 21 days after uterine wall implantation. Which is about the same time as "oh shit, I think I missed my period." The spiritual/religious side in me would argue that "life" begins at fertilization and that abortions equal murder. But the "not-really-a" scientist in me makes the first statement - arguing that abortion after there is a heartbeat equals murder. A woman has plenty of right to choose what to do with her body. That includes responsibility. What about the "potential" woman she's carrying in her womb? What about her right to choose? Another thought... If we're going to give the fetus a right to choose, what about all the other rights that born humans have? Don't they have the right to not be raped and sexually assaulted? If that's your argument, then why not make it a law where any pregger sex must be performed with a condom? That semen IS touching that fetus without its permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 How about we just tell the newborn infant that the formulas in the refrigerator and if he refuses to go get it tough shit.WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 How many guys in here have kids? And how many don't? I have one. Anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Another thought... If we're going to give the fetus a right to choose, what about all the other rights that born humans have? Don't they have the right to not be raped and sexually assaulted? If that's your argument, then why not make it a law where any pregger sex must be performed with a condom? That semen IS touching that fetus without its permission. Umm ok. That's a sane analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Yeah, Vapor, I don't think that one works so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Umm ok. That's a sane analogy. No more insane than saying that because it has a beating heart it's a human life! If it's a human life, then why does it deserve the right to exist, but not the right to be sexually assaulted. Seriously, I want a real counter argument, and if you can't propose one, then please explain why my suggestion is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 No more insane than saying that because it has a beating heart it's a human life! If it's a human life, then why does it deserve the right to exist, but not the right to be sexually assaulted. Seriously, I want a real counter argument, and if you can't propose one, then please explain why my suggestion is silly. Umm aren't you in med school? When do you code a patient? (When their heart stops and the patient is unable to be rescuisitated) Your suggestion is silly because it involves blasting semen at a fetus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Umm aren't you in med school? When do you code a patient? (When their heart stops and the patient is unable to be rescuisitated) Your suggestion is silly because it involves blasting semen at a fetus. No, I'm not. The current medical definition of death also includes cessation of cerebral function. Also, silly as it may be, it's a fact that the fetus gets blasted with semen every time a pregnant woman has sex. If you do that to a non-consenting person, then you're going to jail for a long time. I want to know why you think this is a bad proposal. If it is as silly as you are saying it is, then you should have no problem shooting it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I just want this in a quote bed somewhere: "...it's a fact that the fetus gets blasted with semen every time a pregnant woman has sex." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Sorry, Vapor, but I can't imagine any way to explain that analogy rationally. Maybe you're just frustrated beyond all reason or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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