Barkevious Mingo

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

As far as being camera ready, Mingo's a star waiting to happen and probably a future Strahan. He loves the camera, looks good and talks great. If he can ring up some sacks, guy's gonna make some coin off the field.

 

Same is not true of the Slinger, B-Weeds. Guy seems really nice but he's ass ugly and dull. Then again, I didn't see Manning's laid back humor developing until it bit me. He's one of the best ever.

 

Sound like I've done a little casting? Har.

Calm down, chap.

 

Let the guy play a couple third downs first.

 

 

 

Because we spent a 6 pick on a third down playing movie fucking star.

[miktoxic]

Calm down, chap.

 

Let the guy play a couple third downs first.

 

 

 

Because we spent a 6 pick on a third down playing movie fucking star.

 

then who'll be starting?

 

see i don't know a lot about the formations run on the field. we are running a 4-3? which means what, we have 4 linemen, then a layer of 4 LBs spread out behind them (2 OLB and 2 ILB)? then what is the 3 behind them the 2 corners and a safety in the middle?

 

so if that's the case they moved our DEs to OLBs, correct? so sheard will start then who else? because i know kreuger was only a 3rd down back and now mingo, who did we pick up to start on the other side of sheard? and with picking up LBs in free agency didn't we add SOME depth?

[Shep]

Starting schmarting. Welcome to 2013, especially on defense.

 

Could Jabaal Sheard make the pick a mistake over the long haul? Sure. He could lock down the ROLB position and make Mingo a four-year Bruce Irvin. But can you blame the Browns for not banking on it? When a lot of draftnicks were sure the Browns would take Milliner (truly nuts) to play #2 corner, a third round value at best, they bashed the team for assuming Sheard could not only transition well but become the marquee player of the entire defense. That's what you want out of your ROLB in the 3-4.

 

Sheard has solid pass rush skills but there's a reason he played LDE in both college and in the pros: He's never done all that well against the nimble left tackles because he lacks the elite burst. Mingo has that. He's a special athlete. Rare. In a Pass the Ball and Rush the Passer League, it made sense.

 

In 2013, I expect Sheard to start but I expect all three on the field for most pass packages.

[calfoxwc]

They can rotate dl's all game, put Browns in matchups that make sense.

 

Can't wait, I look for Mingo to be huge when he's in there. And with a headstart?

 

Sheard will worry most any offense.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

They can rotate dl's all game, put Browns in matchups that make sense.

 

Can't wait, I look for Mingo to be huge when he's in there. And with a headstart?

 

Sheard will worry most any offense.

That's fine now.

 

 

But what about in three seasons when our LB corps is gonna be accounting for 30-40 million against the cap?

 

 

Having depth is fine. Having quality depth is great. But at some point, someone will have to go.

[thenew23]

That's fine now.

 

 

But what about in three seasons when our LB corps is gonna be accounting for 30-40 million against the cap?

 

 

Having depth is fine. Having quality depth is great. But at some point, someone will have to go.

Oh shut up! Who really cares about 3 seasons from now??

 

Always the pessimist...

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Oh shut up! Who really cares about 3 seasons from now??

 

Always the pessimist...

Good GMs do.

[Shep]

Don't entirely agree, Couch. Good GMs do look at cap integrity and team composition 3-4 years down the line... but they know the NFL moves in extremely quick life cycles. Teams go from worst to first every single year. Players get injured and miss entire seasons every single year. Players come out of nowhere to contribute every single year.

 

It's the ultimate example of, "If you wanna make God laugh, tell him your plans." I know going into 2008 we were "planning" to be really good for a very long time.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Don't entirely agree, Couch. Good GMs do look at cap integrity and team composition 3-4 years down the line... but they know the NFL moves in extremely quick life cycles. Teams go from worst to first every single year. Players get injured and miss entire seasons every single year. Players come out of nowhere to contribute every single year.

 

It's the ultimate example of, "If you wanna make God laugh, tell him your plans." I know going into 2008 we were "planning" to be really good for a very long time.

True, but many of those "worst to first" teams went right back into the gutter a year or two later.

 

Were looking at it with two different perspectives.

 

You're looking at it optimistically based on what has transpired with other teams in the league in years past.

 

I'm looking at it pessimisticly based on what has transpired with the Browns in the past.

 

I see what can go wrong, you see what can go right.

 

 

If you have a boat with six holes in it, you don't put all six plugs into one hole to make it super plugged.

 

 

We have a 6th pick, a recent 2nd round pick, one marquee FA signing worth about 40 million and another FA signing all rotating between two positions. Eventually, that's going to be cap hell and someone will have to get traded and teams that have to frantically trade to stay under the cap always get the worse end of the deal.

[Shep]

I don't really see it as a six plug situation. I see it as "team building," studying what wins and what's "winning the draft instead of winning football games." I think drafting a #2 corner even after a trade down in round one would've been ridiculous. We play in a league where teams are accumulating pass rushers and making their 5th round corners into superstars (looking at you, Seattle). Teams want guys who can come off both edges and up the middle, like Watt.

 

The Browns are going to put Sheard, Kruger, Mingo, and Bryant on the field on passing downs (65% of the time), not to mention a couple explosive ILBs who can get there really quick. I like it a lot.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I don't really see it as a six plug situation. I see it as "team building," studying what wins and what's "winning the draft instead of winning football games." I think drafting a #2 corner even after a trade down in round one would've been ridiculous. We play in a league where teams are accumulating pass rushers and making their 5th round corners into superstars (looking at you, Seattle). Teams want guys who can come off both edges and up the middle, like Watt.

 

The Browns are going to put Sheard, Kruger, Mingo, and Bryant on the field on passing downs (65% of the time), not to mention a couple explosive ILBs who can get there really quick. I like it a lot.

You assume I wanted us to draft Milliner.

 

I wanted Milliner even less than Mingo.

 

 

What I wanted was for us to trade back, add an additional pick and pick up Vaccaro and then choose from the best remaining OLB or CB with our next pick.

 

 

Or take Manuel.

[thenew23]

We have a 6th pick, a recent 2nd round pick, one marquee FA signing worth about 40 million and another FA signing all rotating between two positions. Eventually, that's going to be cap hell and someone will have to get traded and teams that have to frantically trade to stay under the cap always get the worse end of the deal.

 

In the mean time, we draft guys and develop guys who will be ready to step in and play. That's why we traded our draft this year for next year's. That's how you build long-term success. That's how good teams do it.

[Shep]

I would've been insanely meh about Vaccaro. In the trade down, I would've wanted Eifert or Jarvis Jones, guys who contribute to passing the ball and rushing the passer. Drafting both of your safeties in or near round one isn't the best use of chips to me.

 

The truth is, Mingo is something we didn't have: a pass rusher with an elite burst, a guy who could give you 15 sacks. I think both Kruger and Sheard are awesome football players but you want at least one guy who can force double teams.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I would've been insanely meh about Vaccaro. In the trade down, I would've wanted Eifert or Jarvis Jones, guys who contribute to passing the ball and rushing the passer. Drafting both of your safeties in or near round one isn't the best use of chips to me.

 

The truth is, Mingo is something we didn't have: a pass rusher with an elite burst, a guy who could give you 15 sacks. I think both Kruger and Sheard are awesome football players but you want at least one guy who can force double teams.

 

There is more to the game than passing the ball and rushing the passer.

 

Vaccaro would have been a great fit for Horton's defense. He has the ability to play near the line and rush the passer and at nickel corner as well as playing the traditional FS spot.

 

I wouldn't have minded Jarvis Jones.

[Shep]

Playing near the line just duplicates T.J. Ward (although Ward's coverage is underrated). The only safety the Browns would've considered in round one is an Earl Thomas guy, a thinly-veiled corner playing safety, a ball hawk. But I think we have that guy in Tashaun Gipson.

[The Gipper]

There is more to the game than passing the ball and rushing the passer.

 

Vaccaro would have been a great fit for Horton's defense. He has the ability to play near the line and rush the passer and at nickel corner as well as playing the traditional FS spot.

 

I wouldn't have minded Jarvis Jones.

I would not have minded either of them at the right spot. As it is, the guys that make the decisions on this made a different decision. All I care about is that it work out.

I mean, hell, who really knows. Jamoris Slaughter may turn out to be a better choice in the 6th round than Vaccaro was in the first. Let's hope so.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Playing near the line just duplicates T.J. Ward (although Ward's coverage is underrated). The only safety the Browns would've considered in round one is an Earl Thomas guy, a thinly-veiled corner playing safety, a ball hawk. But I think we have that guy in Tashaun Gipson.

Vaccaro is essentially a corner playing safety. Horton's defense places the secondary on islands. Each player is going to have to excel in man coverage and Vaccaro's best strength is his ability to matchup in man coverage, especially against bigger tight ends and slot receivers.

[Vagitron]

Playing near the line just duplicates T.J. Ward (although Ward's coverage is underrated). The only safety the Browns would've considered in round one is an Earl Thomas guy, a thinly-veiled corner playing safety, a ball hawk. But I think we have that guy in Tashaun Gipson.

 

The Browns traded their 4th to the steelers so the steelers could select that guy. Shark Thomas covered the slot and tight ends for a brunt of his college career. Im still not sure why the Browns made the deal if they did in fact want that kind of safety.

[Shep]

If there's a player who confused me more in the draft than Vaccaro, I don't know who it is. I read more conflicting scouting reports on him than any other player. Safety isn't often a game-changing high-impact position in the draft, more of a piece in a larger puzzle, but I don't want to go out on many limbs discussing a player I don't know much about. I watched Texas a few times and he didn't register at all.

 

I'm a fairly straight-on believer in the front-to-back notion of how to build a defense that most scouts are taught on day one. Bucky Brooks was recently discussing that few scouts will dispute that you would rather put your highest chips on pass rushers and defensive linemen in general than defensive backs. The Browns already have a #7 overall pick and a near first rounder in their defensive backfield and have brought in a lot of complementary pieces over the last couple years (Skrine, Owens, McFadden, Gipson, Bademosi, Slaughter), which makes sense to me.

 

I think it's important that your safeties can cover. Ward is highly underrated in that area, grades out extremely well. It's something Gipson really showed off late last year, a sense of where to be and very good playing speed to close on the ball.

 

With Slaughter reportedly healthy, I'd like to see Bademosi moved back to corner.

[Shep]

Thomas' coverage skills were NOT honed or well reviewed. He was a fourth rounder for a lot of reasons. He was never asked to cover in college.

[Shep]

BTW, if you wanna talk about someone the Browns did want and missed out on, I'd talk about Vance McDonald, TE Rice, who's tearing it up at 49er camps. Catches everything. He and Cameron would've been awesome in 12 formations.

 

If there's an excuse, the Browns could counter that they would be sitting too many WRs who excel in the slot (Bess, Little, Nelson), including two with size.

[sisky fringo]

way waay waaay off topic here on page 12 lol.

 

can't leave out Flash Gordon either. although most of us view him as a #1WR playing on the outside, most of his scoring plays last year originated from the slot. he's a dominating mismatch from there for most anybody.

 

one positive about Shurmer was he did a good job of moving folks around and getting some useful film for Chorv to build on.

[Shep]

Just read Vaccaro listed as one of 10 draft picks who could underwhelm. Said he's good at the line in coverage, struggles with deep patterns, playing center field.

 

Dude fell and rose and fell and finally rose more than anybody in the draft. I think that's why I couldn't get a bead on him.

[jrb12711]

There is more to the game than passing the ball and rushing the passer.

 

Vaccaro would have been a great fit for Horton's defense. He has the ability to play near the line and rush the passer and at nickel corner as well as playing the traditional FS spot.

 

I wouldn't have minded Jarvis Jones.

 

Although true, passing and rushing the passer are easily the top two most important things to a football team. You can have the best secondary in the world but WR's are going to get open if the QB has no pressure. In a 3-4 defense you literally can't have enough edge pass rushing. I don't know what Mingo might do, but the blue print is there from other guys like him to be successful.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Although true, passing and rushing the passer are easily the top two most important things to a football team. You can have the best secondary in the world but WR's are going to get open if the QB has no pressure. In a 3-4 defense you literally can't have enough edge pass rushing. I don't know what Mingo might do, but the blue print is there from other guys like him to be successful.

Oh I agree. I've been saying for years that we could have Revis and Haden back there but it wouldn't mean anything unless we got a pass rush.

 

 

What I'm saying is that we could have conceivably traded out of 6, picked up a second rounder, added Vaccaro and then taken one of the multiple rushers/LBs that were still available in the second.

[The Gipper]

Oh I agree. I've been saying for years that we could have Revis and Haden back there but it wouldn't mean anything unless we got a pass rush.

 

 

What I'm saying is that we could have conceivably traded out of 6, picked up a second rounder, added Vaccaro and then taken one of the multiple rushers/LBs that were still available in the second.

We coulda had a V-8, but we didn't. Doh. Well. We shall see how we do with what we have.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

We coulda had a V-8, but we didn't. Doh. Well. We shall see how we do with what we have.

 

You're always for open discussion until you don't agree with the subject.

 

I'm only posing what could have been.

 

You can be happy standing pat all you want, but I won't be happy until we're better...plain and simple. It's my opinion that we could have gotten more for our buck in the draft and failed to. It's your opinion that anything this regime does is apparently golden.

 

Our opinions differ, is all.

 

We also could have drafted Jordan Rogers with the sixth pick but didn't, so I'm not entirely upset with the draft.

[The Gipper]

You're always for open discussion until you don't agree with the subject.

 

I'm only posing what could have been.

 

You can be happy standing pat all you want, but I won't be happy until we're better...plain and simple. It's my opinion that we could have gotten more for our buck in the draft and failed to. It's your opinion that anything this regime does is apparently golden.

 

Our opinions differ, is all.

 

We also could have drafted Jordan Rogers with the sixth pick but didn't, so I'm not entirely upset with the draft.

I don't necessarily think our opinions differ. Its just that if I constantly play the "What if" game, I would react like a Martian hearing a tune by the recently departed Slim Whitman.

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I don't necessarily think our opinions differ. Its just that if I constantly play the "What if" game, I would react like a Martian hearing a tune by the recently departed Slim Whitman.

 

I'm not playing the "What If" game. I'm playing the "we maybe could have fucked up the draft" game because there's nothing else to talk about in relation to the on the field Browns at this point in time.

 

I'm not saying "at this very moment, Vaccaro would be doing [so and so] instead of Bark Mingo".

 

The conversation turned to the importance of pass rushing over pass coverage and I brought up that we could, conceivably, bolstered both positions in the first two rounds instead of just one.

[jrb12711]

Oh I agree. I've been saying for years that we could have Revis and Haden back there but it wouldn't mean anything unless we got a pass rush.

 

 

What I'm saying is that we could have conceivably traded out of 6, picked up a second rounder, added Vaccaro and then taken one of the multiple rushers/LBs that were still available in the second.

 

I suppose. but what excites me some is how successful these so called 'project' defensive ends have been recently in the first round. I mean in terms of tape and experience Ansah was well behind Mingo. I like we got a high pick also who wont have to be 'the guy' right away. We'll see but I think Mingo is set up well to have a good season.