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Do you buy Bullying in the NFL?


jrb12711

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Since the Brownies are on a bye this week, I've been paying somewhat close attention to this bullying situation in Miami. It seems like people are either taking the side of 'toughen up it's a mans game' or 'bullying is bad no matter the circumstances'. I'm just curious what you all think about it. Incognito is by most accounts a meat-head prick. I don't doubt for a second he was riding the guy Martin extremely hard and probably crossed the line. I've had some good nature shit-talkin with the buddies, but I never said things like "I'm going to shit in your mouth' or "I'm going to slap your mother across her f-in face".

 

I was bullied like hell in middle school for being fat before I hit puberty. It became too much one day and I literally knocked the worst kid out with one punch. Fortunately despite being young I still grew up in a relatively non-PC world. I was deservedly punished (two weeks of detention or something can't remember) but low and behold that kid stopped. I think what is pissing a lot of people off about what Martin did is that he didn't handle his business personally and went straight to the supervisors. I don't blame him for what he did and I don't think that makes him 'soft' though. A bad work enviornment is crappy no matter the profession. I don't really consider it childish to report a hostile work enviornment but that's just me. Thoughts?

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It's an interesting one. Clearly, in normal life, that would be construed as bullying, but the NFL is a different beast. You can sympathise with Incognito to some degree - he's probably been doing the same shit to people for years, trying to toughen them up, and this is the first anyone's complained about it. On the other hand, making threats, however real or fake, of violence towards family members (why is it always mothers?) might just be a bit too far for some people. Martin is a Stanford guy - a highly educated guy who has presumably been brought up with the mantra that violence isn't the answer, to play tough on the field and be a gentleman off of it. I wonder how we'd all be viewing this if Martin just knocked the guy out and got on with it?

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Ya, I don't know if the situation should be called "Bullying". I'd say it was more harassment, with the phone calls and such. Maybe they are one in the same.

 

It's harder to say with NFL players as their jobs are quite different than most places. In a normal office work environment, something like this would have a much harder time happening, what with HR reps and lawsuits.

 

I don't know if I have ever seen something like this take place in my adult life. As a child you don't always have the options that you do as an adult. When you are a kid, you are stuck in a classroom a bully, you have to eat lunch with them, walk home or ride a bus with them, etc. You're stuck. Martin may have felt the same way.

 

I don't know, it doesn't sound like we are getting the whole story yet.

 

I'm just surprised that a guy who's job is to push people around all day didn't put a fist in Richie's word hole!

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Tannehill said Martin and Incognito were "best friends" two weeks ago, and that Martin was passing around his phone in the locker room laughing about the voice mails. Martin is a pussy bitch and threw his teammate under the bus. Martin should have done what Ireland said and punched Incognito in the face or balls. Instead he had a mental breakdown. The coaches told Incognito to toughen Martin up, because the opposing D-Line in every game are gonna be saying worse shit in the game. If he thought what Incognito did was bad, wait till he comes back and the opposition gets ahold of this weak minded individual.

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Incognito is a total douche. That being said, Martin is a giant soft pussy and I wouldn't want him in my locker room. How can you ever trust him to man up and defend the blindside if he can't defend his own honor from a teammate?

I think there's a difference there, but not necessarily a huge one. You need to be mentally strong to play in the NFL, of course, but that doesn't mean 'defending your honour' - instead just let it wash over you like the douche-drivel it is and get on with your job.

 

The biggest problem Martin has now is not Incognito, it's every DE or OLB he now faces for the rest of his NFL career talking trash at him that he's shown himself not mentally capable of dealing with.

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I am already bored to tears by this story.

 

 

So am I. I think it's the biggest crock of shit, I've heard all year long thus far....Now theyre saying Incognito is an "honorary black man"...Lol..Look..I have black friends and a couple are really close buds of mine..Real up standing guys...We always respect each other and never once did race ever become an issue... We may have disagreements about certain issues privately. but those things never threatened our friendship once,

 

I mean really America...(namely the media) Grow the hell up!

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Tannehill said Martin and Incognito were "best friends" two weeks ago, and that Martin was passing around his phone in the locker room laughing about the voice mails. Martin is a pussy bitch and threw his teammate under the bus. Martin should have done what Ireland said and punched Incognito in the face or balls. Instead he had a mental breakdown. The coaches told Incognito to toughen Martin up, because the opposing D-Line in every game are gonna be saying worse shit in the game. If he thought what Incognito did was bad, wait till he comes back and the opposition gets ahold of this weak minded individual.

 

Life isn't like that man. Who says he didn't stand up for himself and failed? Who is to say he doesn't have legitimate mental issues (he checked into a hospital for it) that affected it? Life isn't always black and white like some people seem to believe. I also don't buy for a second that they were 'best friends'. It might have been slanted to look that way by Incognito but it obviously isn't true.

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Life isn't like that man. Who says he didn't stand up for himself and failed? Who is to say he doesn't have legitimate mental issues (he checked into a hospital for it) that affected it? Life isn't always black and white like some people seem to believe. I also don't buy for a second that they were 'best friends'. It might have been slanted to look that way by Incognito but it obviously isn't true.

I'm sure there is a lot we don't know and probably never will. Point is the whole team has Incognitos back and its obvious Martin went about this in the worst way possible.
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Well, here's my take, based on what I've heard. Per one of the commentators- an NFL locker room certainly can be considered a "workplace" so anti-harassment rules are applicable. Also heard besides Martin being a Stanford grad (have to assume he's smart), his parents both graduated from Harvard Law School- which means they're really smart. If would be pretty naive to think Martin didn't call up mom & dad to get some first rate legal advice on how to proceed. Does the guy have mental issues? Probably- but he's not the first NFL player in that boat.

 

So how is this going to play out? IMO, after Rodger (he's a lawyer too) Goodell sorts out all the mess, this crap is going to come to an end pronto. No more rookie hazing and bullying. (Plenty of teams already have those sort of rules in effect.) Personally, I was appalled the vets (in more than one instance and on more than one team) have forced rookies to pick up big ($1,000s +) team restaurant tabs. They're the guys making the money- they should be buying the rooks dinners to make them feel welcome.

 

Finally- if the rumor Incognito forced Tannehill to buy him a jet ski (there's supposedly a radio recording of it with him laughing about it)- that's nothing short of extortion, I don't care if Tannehill had a multimillion dollar contract, smacks of Guido coming up with the violin case demanding protection money. My guess is Goodell is going to kick Incognito out of the league for at least a year, so he'll have plenty of time to ride it.

 

PS be happy Browns fans- the Dolphins have the tiebreaker over us- and now they're missing 2 of their OL.

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Incognito is a dumbass, a meat head, and probably roids raged out of what is left of his tiny mind. Was he probably trying to make Martin toughen up? Yes. Is he so blindly stupid that he shouldn't even be trusted to feed a gold fish? Yes. He has the functioning I.Q. of Forrest Gump, but with the anger issues of a gorilla that has been slapped in the face for hours on end by a laughing person eating bananas. He's angry and dumb, why in the fuck would Miami ask him to be one of their leaders?

 

Martin is a pussy. Not just a pussy either, mind you, but a giant, gaping, and meat-flapped 300lb vagina that looks like a dude. If it is true that he went to mommy and daddy and formed the best possible case, instead of standing up and defending thyself, then my previous sentence is not inappropriate.

 

Hell, most people have been bullied. It won't go away until YOU make it go away. The first time I dealt with one I hit the kid every time he came to bat. Three pitches, three hits for me, and my first ejection from a sporting event. Truth was though, I was smaller and younger than everyone else, so I made an example out of him. I was willing to take pain if they were, and low and behold, it worked. Was never messed with much after developing that philosophy. Was it right? Who the fuck cares? It worked though, and I never received more than ejections and warnings all the way through high school; that was all I needed.

 

End of the day, Miami is a cesspool of shit. Doesn't surprise me that the whackjobs come out of the swamp and dildo-fight each other over some he-said she-said bullshit. Fuck'um, glad the Browns don't have to worry about this. Really. I live right across the alley from the Devil's playground and this is not surprising. Miami has a way of turning everything to evil or shit. It might be humidity, it is anyone's guess, but who really fucking cares? The Browns are in a good way, and even the likes of Coke Irvin are talking about how we are heading in the right direction, so whatever. Ban them both for all I care.

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Incognito is a dumbass, a meat head, and probably roids raged out of what is left of his tiny mind. Was he probably trying to make Martin toughen up? Yes. Is he so blindly stupid that he shouldn't even be trusted to feed a gold fish? Yes. He has the functioning I.Q. of Forrest Gump, but with the anger issues of a gorilla that has been slapped in the face for hours on end by a laughing person eating bananas. He's angry and dumb, why in the fuck would Miami ask him to be one of their leaders?

 

Martin is a pussy. Not just a pussy either, mind you, but a giant, gaping, and meat-flapped 300lb vagina that looks like a dude. If it is true that he went to mommy and daddy and formed the best possible case, instead of standing up and defending thyself, then my previous sentence is not inappropriate.

 

Hell, most people have been bullied. It won't go away until YOU make it go away. The first time I dealt with one I hit the kid every time he came to bat. Three pitches, three hits for me, and my first ejection from a sporting event. Truth was though, I was smaller and younger than everyone else, so I made an example out of him. I was willing to take pain if they were, and low and behold, it worked. Was never messed with much after developing that philosophy. Was it right? Who the fuck cares? It worked though, and I never received more than ejections and warnings all the way through high school; that was all I needed.

 

End of the day, Miami is a cesspool of shit. Doesn't surprise me that the whackjobs come out of the swamp and dildo-fight each other over some he-said she-said bullshit. Fuck'um, glad the Browns don't have to worry about this. Really. I live right across the alley from the Devil's playground and this is not surprising. Miami has a way of turning everything to evil or shit. It might be humidity, it is anyone's guess, but who really fucking cares? The Browns are in a good way, and even the likes of Coke Irvin are talking about how we are heading in the right direction, so whatever. Ban them both for all I care.

 

Best analysis yet...great post!

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We'd be calling Martin a thug because he's black.

 

Incognito is and always has been a piece of shit, just like his father. They're dumpster water.

^^This

 

Martin would probably have been suspended. The half ngr thing was probably put on Martin by his other teammates, so I think some of it is as the Dolphins were trying to say...toughen him up. The shit about making a 2nd year player come 30k out of his pockets for trips he wasn't even going on? And the shit about i'll kill your family or whatever that bitch titty fuck was saying on the vm....that should have been an instantaneous assault charge. I'm sorry but if any of us had said that to Martin we'd get beat, Martin obviously felt that if he physically assaulted staypuft he'd incur not only the wrath of the FO but possibly also other players. So why were Miami players allowing incognito to call Martin a half-ngr piece of shit and threatening to slap his familiy tree around? I "highly" doubt Martin was that big of a pussy that under normal circumstances he doesn't say "dude, one more time and I fuck you stupid".

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The biggest problem Martin has now is ... that he's shown himself not mentally capable of dealing ...

 

Therein lies the key point. Something in Martin's make-up has prevented him from either dealing or coping with the situation... and it sure as hell is not that he is "a pussy".

 

For any public figure, let alone a rough, tough NFL lineman, to seek mental help is a very brave thing indeed.

 

I am already bored to tears by this story.

 

I was headed there as well until the Dolphin player comments started surfacing.

 

Now theyre saying Incognito is an "honorary black man"...Lol..Look..I have black friends and a couple are really close buds of mine..Real up standing guys...We always respect each other and never once did race ever become an issue... We may have disagreements about certain issues privately. but those things never threatened our friendship once,

 

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon have had a couple of really good segments on this. One of their insights is the impact the age of the friends has on the relationship and what is/ is not respectful.

 

Best analysis yet...great post!

 

... or worst...

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Therein lies the key point. Something in Martin's make-up has prevented him from either dealing or coping with the situation... and it sure as hell is not that he is "a pussy".

 

For any public figure, let alone a rough, tough NFL lineman, to seek mental help is a very brave thing indeed.

 

 

Really good point. Martin is a smart guy. I think he understood damn well the ramifications of acting how he has about this situation. You don't just do that unless something is seriously wrong, at least in your opinion.

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Incognito is a dumbass, a meat head, and probably roids raged out of what is left of his tiny mind. Was he probably trying to make Martin toughen up? Yes. Is he so blindly stupid that he shouldn't even be trusted to feed a gold fish? Yes. He has the functioning I.Q. of Forrest Gump, but with the anger issues of a gorilla that has been slapped in the face for hours on end by a laughing person eating bananas. He's angry and dumb, why in the fuck would Miami ask him to be one of their leaders?

 

Martin is a pussy. Not just a pussy either, mind you, but a giant, gaping, and meat-flapped 300lb vagina that looks like a dude. If it is true that he went to mommy and daddy and formed the best possible case, instead of standing up and defending thyself, then my previous sentence is not inappropriate.

 

Hell, most people have been bullied. It won't go away until YOU make it go away. The first time I dealt with one I hit the kid every time he came to bat. Three pitches, three hits for me, and my first ejection from a sporting event. Truth was though, I was smaller and younger than everyone else, so I made an example out of him. I was willing to take pain if they were, and low and behold, it worked. Was never messed with much after developing that philosophy. Was it right? Who the fuck cares? It worked though, and I never received more than ejections and warnings all the way through high school; that was all I needed.

 

End of the day, Miami is a cesspool of shit. Doesn't surprise me that the whackjobs come out of the swamp and dildo-fight each other over some he-said she-said bullshit. Fuck'um, glad the Browns don't have to worry about this. Really. I live right across the alley from the Devil's playground and this is not surprising. Miami has a way of turning everything to evil or shit. It might be humidity, it is anyone's guess, but who really fucking cares? The Browns are in a good way, and even the likes of Coke Irvin are talking about how we are heading in the right direction, so whatever. Ban them both for all I care.

That is correct. Best analysis by far.

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Here's my two cents.

 

First off, there is no place for bullying in the football locker room. It creates a toxic environment that effects the entire team, not just the player that's bullied. We had a bully on my HS football team (he was a senior while I was sophmore), he would do things to deliberately injure teammates during practice, and gave me four stitches in my chin by using the crown of his helmet to strike my chin during an indoor, pads-free practice that was supposed to be contact-free. The only way to beat a bully is to stand up to them, and Martin should've done that, but apparently it isn't in his character to do so. You know who else should've put a stop to it? One of the veteran players on the team, or even more so, the HC.

 

It was monumentally stupid to put a thug like Incognito in a position of power, and it is monumentally stupid to think you can motivate someone with Martin's personality to play better by "toughening him up." The way you motivate someone like Martin is with positive reinforcement and challenging them to make the most out of their talent. I don't care if it's football or a white collar job, people are people and will be more motivated if they are treated with respect and driven by positive forces to play better. If that sound familiar, it should, because that's exactly the kind of leadership we have in Cleveland and the reason the Browns are an ascending team.

 

I think it's also funny some people think Martin has less of a shot at playing again than Incognito. Incognito violated NFL policies that are given to every player when they enter the league and has already been suspended indefinitely. Martin didn't violate any rules, and at worst damaged his character, though probably not enough that some team wouldn't take a chance on him given his talent. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing the Browns giving him a shot, because we've got the kind of coaches and stand-up players that could bring the best out of him.

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The whole Organization is to blame but,the person I blame is Philbin because He was the one who put Incognito in position in the first place...Philbin wouldnt have a job today If I was the team owner...end of story...

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You handle that shit in house. Martin should have gone to the coaches first then the gm or whatever. Not to a lawyer and mental hospital. Fuck him I hope he never plays again.

Ok so,the next time you have a mental lapse...you should never be allowed to work again...He's a kid...he fucked up...no one got killed or had anything stolen...He got bad advice...People deserve the chance to redeem themselves....

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We are going to run train on your sister. . . . She loves me. I am going to fuck her without a condom and cum in her cunt

 

Why would you put Incognito in a leadership position? That guy is just a piece of shit. All the Dolphins players are lawyering up, this is gonna be fun to watch.

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You handle that shit in house. Martin should have gone to the coaches first then the gm or whatever. Not to a lawyer and mental hospital. Fuck him I hope he never plays again.

Right, he should've gone to the coaches that ordered Cognito to treat him like shit. This stuff was going on for a year and a half, and the whole thing with all the players getting up from the lunch table shows incognito had the team eating out of his dirty hands. I'm glad this blew up in the Dolphins faces, it'll be a warning to the rest of the NFL to deal with player problems in a professional fashion. If the Dolphins didn't like Martin they should've traded him, sent him to the practice squad, whatever. You saw how the Browns handled Weeden, professionals to the core despite how freaking terrible he is. Dolphins are reaping what they've sown.

 

They should have brought Michael Irvin in to talk to Martin.

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Right, he should've gone to the coaches that ordered Cognito to treat him like shit. This stuff was going on for a year and a half, and the whole thing with all the players getting up from the lunch table shows incognito had the team eating out of his dirty hands. I'm glad this blew up in the Dolphins faces, it'll be a warning to the rest of the NFL to deal with player problems in a professional fashion. If the Dolphins didn't like Martin they should've traded him, sent him to the practice squad,

 

Yup- there's more stuff coming out. Heard on ESPN radio tonight- interview with Sage Rosnefelds & he had some choice words about Ireland, the Fins GM. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24198730/sage-rosenfels-calls-miamis-jeff-ireland-a-jerk-worst-gm-of-his-career Martin would have gotten no help there either. Sure, Jeff- just tell him to punch the guy in the face.

 

Also one of the Fins women assistants had a rather unpleasant incident with Incognito (is there any doubt the guy is a POS?) @ a charity golf outing. seems Richie put one his clubs up between her legs, and then proceeded to twek her. Got swept under the rug.

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Both are pieces of work. Martin has to have something else gong on except whats being reported. But I have a feeling he will have a hard time getting work in the NFL again after this.

 

Martin's gay, it's the purple elephant in the locker room that the media is conveniently choosing to ignore. In guy lingo, "soft", "emotional" and "big weirdo" are synonyms for a flaming f*g. The Dolphins are trying to cover up this potential PR nightmare. Goodell will pull a lost-Bounty-Gate-tape and help the 'Phins to do this.

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lydon-murtha-800.jpg?w=800&h=500Lydon Murtha, who played for the Dolphins from 2009 to ’12, is adamant that Richie Incognito never bullied Jonathan Martin. (Cliff Welch/Icon SMI)
By Lydon Murtha

I don’t have a dog in this fight.

I want that to be very clear. I played offensive tackle for the Miami Dolphins from 2009 until the 2012 preseason, when I was released after tearing ligaments in my foot and injuring my back, both requiring surgery. I have since retired, and I’m happily working in the auto industry and living outside of Miami. I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides. I’m only interested in the truth, which is what I’m going to share, from my own experiences and from conversations with friends still on the team.

Before I correct some of the misconceptions and outright lies being reported in the course of this story, let’s first establish who Martin and Incognito are as human beings and their relationship with one another.

From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome.

richie-incognito-jonathan-martin2.jpg?w=Incognito and Martin (Lynne Sladky/AP)

Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all apperances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.

Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders,bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.

That’s where Incognito ran into a problem. Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.

In my experience, he’s not the kind of person who would extort someone for $15,000. The notion that Martin was forced to pay for a trip he didn’t attend has been misrepresented.

Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.

Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.

The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.

Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous. I have friends on more than a dozen teams, and it’s the same everywhere. What people want to call bullying is something that is never going away from football. This is a game of high testosterone, with men hammering their bodies on a daily basis. You are taught to be an aggressive person, and you typically do not make it to the NFL if you are a passive person. There are a few, but it’s very hard. Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.

lydon-murtha-ryan-tannehill.jpg?w=800&h=Quarterback Ryan Tannehill (17) said Wednesday that he was surprised by the bullying allegations, a sentiment shared by ex-Dolphin Lydon Murtha, seen here in a 2012 preseason game. (Charles Trainor Jr./Getty Images)

The most unfortunate thing about this situation is the consequence it will have on the careers of both men. Richie’s marked himself now as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that could be the end of it. Martin is on the opposite end of the spectrum, but no more likely than Incognito to return to the NFL if he wants. In going to the media with his problem, Martin broke the code, and it shows that he’s not there for his teammates and he’s not standing up for himself. There might be a team that gives him a chance because he’s a good person, but the players will reject him. They’ll think, If I say one thing he’s going to the press. He’ll never earn the respect of teammates and personnel in the NFL because he didn’t take care of business the right way.

What fans should understand is that every day in the NFL there are battles between players worse than what’s being portrayed. This racial slur would be a blip on the radar if everything that happens in the locker room went public. But all over the league, problems are hashed out in house. Either you talk about it or you get physical. But at the end of the day, you handle it indoors.

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