DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Fuck that I don't want that guy on the team. He threw his whole team under the bus now the coach is being questioned, and the gm. The rest of their season will be turmoil. You can't ever trust him again. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadNewsBrowns Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing the Browns giving him a shot, because we've got the kind of coaches and stand-up players that could bring the best out of him. No freaking way. I'd take Incognito though... The guy must have not been too bad, he has numerous team mates getting his back on this one. Who knows what all really went on but I just don't buy this bullying thing... for christs sake can we pussy up the NFL even more? This bullying shit has infiltrated the NFL now? Another thing is didn't this phone call happen in April 2012? Why keep the message all this time? And checking yourself into the hospital for emotional distress? lol wtf.. It's only a matter of time before Martin sues the Dolphins and the NFL .. I smell bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Who knows what all really went on but I just don't buy this bullying thing... for christs sake can we pussy up the NFL even more? This bullying shit has infiltrated the NFL now? Yeah right, you wouldn't take Martin but you'd take that piece of crap? I'd love to see what goes down when he calls Little or DQ the "N" Word. Would you also take the rapist Ben Rothlesberger or the murderer Aaron Hernandez? Sounds like the building blocks to success to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMR-JUST-A-GAME Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 For Christs sake these are grown men getting bullied?? Let them duke it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 For Christs sake these are grown men getting bullied?? Let them duke it out Which of course is the answer to everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 1675 Lydon Murtha, who played for the Dolphins from 2009 to 12, is adamant that Richie Incognito never bullied Jonathan Martin. (Cliff Welch/Icon SMI) By Lydon Murtha I dont have a dog in this fight. I want that to be very clear. I played offensive tackle for the Miami Dolphins from 2009 until the 2012 preseason, when I was released after tearing ligaments in my foot and injuring my back, both requiring surgery. I have since retired, and Im happily working in the auto industry and living outside of Miami. I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I dont speak with them regularly and Im not taking sides. Im only interested in the truth, which is what Im going to share, from my own experiences and from conversations with friends still on the team. Before I correct some of the misconceptions and outright lies being reported in the course of this story, lets first establish who Martin and Incognito are as human beings and their relationship with one another. From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldnt look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why wont he be open with us? Whats with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something Id never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I dont know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome. Incognito and Martin (Lynne Sladky/AP)Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all apperances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. Hed say, theres always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player. In other situations, when Martin wasnt showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so youd need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito. Which brings me to my first point: I dont believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. Wed have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he cant be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. Thats why the coaches told the leaders,bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit. Thats where Incognito ran into a problem. Personally, I know when a guy cant handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just arent built for it. Incognito doesnt have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and its probably the biggest reason hes not with the team right now. Odd thing is, Ive heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. Its an Animal House. Now Incognitos being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately thats never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong hes done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, hes a really good, kind man and far from a racist. In my experience, hes not the kind of person who would extort someone for $15,000. The notion that Martin was forced to pay for a trip he didnt attend has been misrepresented. Playing football is a mans job, and if theres any weak link, it gets weeded out. Its the leaders job on the team to take care of it. Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you cant go because of an eme rgency then its okay, but to say youre going and then decide you dont want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didnt want to go anymore. You dont do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martins s hare, and he gave it to them. End of story. The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I dont want to sit with you, youve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camels back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Marti told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began. Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. Thats the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know whos getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous. I have friends on more than a dozen teams, and its the same everywhere. What people want to call bullying is something that is never going away from football. This is a game of high testosterone, with men hammering their bodies on a daily basis. You are taught to be an aggressive person, and you typically do not make it to the NFL if you are a passive person. There are a few, but its very hard. Playing football is a mans job, and if theres any weak link, it gets weeded out. Its the leaders job on the team to take care of it. Quarterback Ryan Tannehill (17) said Wednesday that he was surprised by the bullying allegations, a sentiment shared by ex- Dolphin Lydon Murtha, seen here in a 2012 preseason game. (Charles Trainor Jr./Getty Images)The most unfortunate thing about this situation is the consequence it will have on the careers of both men. Richies marked himself now as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that could be the end of it. Martin is on the opposite end of the spectrum, but no more likely than Incognito to return to the NFL if he wants. In going to the media with his problem, Martin broke the code, and it shows that hes not there for his teammates and hes not standing up for himself. There might be a team that gives him a chance because hes a good person, but the players will reject him. Theyll think, If I say one thing hes going to the press. Hell never earn the respect of teammates and personnel in the NFL because he didnt take care of business the right way. What fans should understand is that every day in the NFL there are battles between players worse than whats being portrayed. This racial slur would be a blip on the radar if everything that happens in the locker room went public. But all over the league, problems are hashed out in house. Either you talk about it or you get physical. But at the end of the day, you handle it indoors. This is absolutely 100% on the mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Yeah right, you wouldn't take Martin but you'd take that piece of crap? I'd love to see what goes down when he calls Little or DQ the "N" Word. Would you also take the rapist Ben Rothlesberger or the murderer Aaron Hernandez? Sounds like the building blocks to success to me! Incognito is not or has never been a racist and is actually an honorary black man in the eyes of his black teammates. The fact is he's a VERY good guard and I'd have him on my team any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I don't get how some of you people are saying that Martin's a pussy and are actually defending Incognito for "trying to toughen him up." The Dolphins had a huge win against the Bengals, but it doesn't even matter because the entire locker room is worried about this shit show of a situation. I'm so glad that this bullcrap isn't happening on the Browns because it kills the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Incognito is not or has never been a racist and is actually an honorary black man in the eyes of his black teammates. The fact is he's a VERY good guard and I'd have him on my team any day. Transcript: “Hey, wassup, you half n—– piece of s—,” Incognito told Martin. “I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [i want to] s— in your f—ing mouth. [i’m going to] slap your f—ing mouth. [i’m going to] slap your real mother across the face. F— you, you’re still a rookie. I’ll kill you.” You can fill in the blanks. That sounds pretty racist to me. You know what else is racist? Telling someone they aren't a black man because they don't fit a particular preconceived notion of what a black man should be. I suppose unless you fit neatly into the stereotypes society holds, you aren't a member of that race! From http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20131108_Incognito_s_apologists_are_more_racist_than_he_is.html: But what makes some of Incognito's apologists seem even more racist than he is that teammates and former Dolphins have reportedly told the Miami Herald that they consider Incognito more black than Martin because Martin, who graduated from Stanford and whose parents are Harvard grads, comes from a privileged background. "Well I've spoken to multiple people today about this," Herald columnist Armando Salguero reported Wednesday. " . . . In the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by black players. He was an honorary black man. ". . . Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito." Let that marinate for a minute. Martin fails the black test because he's biracial and privileged. Incognito was an "honorary" black man because he's from a less privileged background. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black," Salguero said one anonymous player told him. "But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. "It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things." That couldn't be more offensive if it were the rantings of some rabid racist intent on keeping black people in their place. But it is even more insidious than that. It is a characterization accepted by many people, black and white, who see us in what they perceive as "our place" for reasons that are more stupid than overtly racist. It's a mind-set that I have seen on campuses and in workplaces where a lot of people are comfortable being the arbiters of what it means to be black. Even more offensive is the notion that to be intellectual is somehow less black than it is to be educated or middle class. Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20131108_Incognito_s_apologists_are_more_racist_than_he_is.html#07wKBxrCYadKSe9A.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/08/cam-cleeland-victim-of-hazing-aghast-at-martin-reaction/ Cam Cleeland, victim of hazing, aghast at Martin reactionPosted by Darin Gantt on November 8, 2013, 8:28 AM EST APIt’s hard for Cam Cleeland to look at the news coming out of Miami over the last week. Partly because of his own experience with hazing, which left him with one good eye. The former tight end was brutalized during a ritual running of the gauntlet during his rookie training camp with the Saints. The kicks and punches were one thing, but one teammate (linebacker Andre Royal) hit him in the face with a sock full of coins, crushing his eye socket and nearly costing him his eye. “Coach [Mike] Ditka gave me a speech as soon as it was done,” Cleeland told Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times. “He was like, ‘Oh, man, you should have just popped those guys in the mouth.’ I said, ‘Coach, there were 60 of them.’” That memory piqued his interest in the Jonathan Martin-Richie Incognitosituation, particularly since he was playing in St. Louis when the Rams drafted Incognito. “I’m not afraid to say that he was an immature, unrealistic scumbag,” Cleeland said. “When it came down to it, he had no personality, he was a locker-room cancer, and he just wanted to fight everybody all the time. It was bizarre beyond belief.” That’s why he, like many, can’t believe the questioning of Martin’s motives. “Any NFL player that gives Martin a hard time — I don’t know him — but any guy who says, ‘This guy should have been a tough guy, should have stood up to him,’ it’s BS,” Cleeland said. “I don’t care if you’re a good guy or not, you don’t deserve that kind of treatment in any workplace. You’ve got to be tough. We’re all tough guys. But in the end, you’re still a human being.” That’s something that Cleeland has every reason to question, after the way he was treated his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Right, he should've gone to the coaches that ordered Cognito to treat him like shit. This stuff was going on for a year and a half, and the whole thing with all the players getting up from the lunch table shows incognito had the team eating out of his dirty hands. I'm glad this blew up in the Dolphins faces, it'll be a warning to the rest of the NFL to deal with player problems in a professional fashion. If the Dolphins didn't like Martin they should've traded him, sent him to the practice squad, whatever. You saw how the Browns handled Weeden, professionals to the core despite how freaking terrible he is. Dolphins are reaping what they've sown. They should have brought Michael Irvin in to talk to Martin. They didn't order him to treat Martin like shit. They ordered him to toughen him up. Obviously he went above and beyond. I'm not defending incognito. He's a douche. I'm condemning Martin as a soft, lazy, aloof, crybaby pussy who got a lawyer because his teammate was mean to him. You can't have a guy like that especially on your O line. You need these guys to be tough. This is the fucking NFL for Christ's sake. Do you think Tannenhill wants a pushover pussy like that for a left tackle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Martin was never discriminated against because of his race, he was discriminated against because he was a pussy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Poor 350 lb Martin. He got bullied, Waaahhhh. Give me a fecking break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 What is the percentage of Black athletes vs white on the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Poor 350 lb Martin. He got bullied, Waaahhhh. Give me a fecking break. Pretty short sighted and lame opinion to something that is a real problem for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 To you, not me. The guy is out for money and is a pussy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Which makes you an ignorant jackass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 No, a realist. And shove the jackass comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Pretty short sighted and lame opinion to something that is a real problem for a lot of people. I feel for the 12 year old getting bullied in school but if a grown ass man/professional tough guy is getting bullied and can't figure out how to stop it without going to the media and throwing the whole team under the bus then he is just a pussy bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I feel for the 12 year old getting bullied in school but if a grown ass man/professional tough guy is getting bullied and can't figure out how to stop it without going to the media and throwing the whole team under the bus then he is just a pussy bitch. Didn't realize how many pussies frequent the Browns board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 They didn't order him to treat Martin like shit. They ordered him to toughen him up. Obviously he went above and beyond. I'm not defending incognito. He's a douche. I'm condemning Martin as a soft, lazy, aloof, crybaby pussy who got a lawyer because his teammate was mean to him Ordering a guy like Incognito to toughen anyone up is tantamount to telling him to treat him like shit. They picked the wrong guy for that job. I agree, Martin probably had issues that made him a poor fit for the team, but again, you have to deal with that like professionals. Either be smart about it like Chudizinski does for the Browns (by believing in them, challenging them to meet their potential, and inspiring them with visits from great past players like Irvin) or just cut the guy loose, trade him or release him. What you don't do is get a guy who is gonna call him a N***** and threaten to kill him. Should Martin have stood up for himself? Absolutely, he should have, I know from first-hand experience it is the only language a bully speaks, and you do that, not only will they back off, they'll respect you, too. But Martin doesn't deserve to be bashed because he wasn't capable of doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Ordering a guy like Incognito to toughen anyone up is tantamount to telling him to treat him like shit. They picked the wrong guy for that job. I agree, Martin probably had issues that made him a poor fit for the team, but again, you have to deal with that like professionals. Either be smart about it like Chudizinski does for the Browns (by believing in them, challenging them to meet their potential, and inspiring them with visits from great past players like Irvin) or just cut the guy loose, trade him or release him. What you don't do is get a guy who is gonna call him a N***** and threaten to kill him. That voicemail is not what Martin is upset about. Thats just how them guys talk. All of them. Its like me calling my friend a cocksucker. Do I actually believe he is gay or am I homophobic? No. I'm just trying to get under his skin or tick him off a little and I expect him to come back with something bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 A few things here: To say a man can't have emotional issues and having some makes him a 'pussy' is extremely, extremely ignorant. Everyone has emotional issues, and everyone is built differently to handle them. That's why the issue of bullying occurs in the first place really. Work, no matter the actual job, should be an inclusive enviornment. What Incognito did clearly crossed the line of 'friendly banter'. I see a lot of people saying that because people are 'supporting' Incognito and others that means Martin is making this worse than it is. Honestly, why would anyone publicly support the guy given the circumstances? It's becoming a legal matter and to side with Martin implies guilt on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I did a whole "Who Ordered the Code Red" mock up, comparing the actors in a Few Good men to the Dolphin characters ... but it the pictures wouldn't post. Anyhow, Dolphins Offensive coordinator Mike Sherman is a dead ringer for the guy that killed himself protecting Nicholson (Philbin) Offensive line coach Jim turner ---> Keifer Sutherland character Mike Pouncy ---> Lance Corporal Dawson Richie ---> Private Downey Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 A few things here: To say a man can't have emotional issues and having some makes him a 'pussy' is extremely, extremely ignorant. Everyone has emotional issues, and everyone is built differently to handle them. That's why the issue of bullying occurs in the first place really. Work, no matter the actual job, should be an inclusive enviornment. What Incognito did clearly crossed the line of 'friendly banter'. I see a lot of people saying that because people are 'supporting' Incognito and others that means Martin is making this worse than it is. Honestly, why would anyone publicly support the guy given the circumstances? It's becoming a legal matter and to side with Martin implies guilt on the team. This is the NFL were talking about not some random office. If you can't take the locker room atmosphere get the fuck out. These aren't scholors. Theyre meatheads. They will always be meatheads and the day they're not you can keep your new pussy league where the tackles are now two handed ass grabs. I'll be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 A few things here: To say a man can't have emotional issues and having some makes him a 'pussy' is extremely, extremely ignorant. Everyone has emotional issues, and everyone is built differently to handle them. That's why the issue of bullying occurs in the first place really. Work, no matter the actual job, should be an inclusive enviornment. What Incognito did clearly crossed the line of 'friendly banter'. I see a lot of people saying that because people are 'supporting' Incognito and others that means Martin is making this worse than it is. Honestly, why would anyone publicly support the guy given the circumstances? It's becoming a legal matter and to side with Martin implies guilt on the team. lol its not his "emotional issues" that make him a pussy. Its the way he handled the situation. Obviously the guy has been soft since he got to Miami or the coaches wouldn't have wanted hom "toughened up". IMO Incognito was trying to make him a better football player and a better teammate. If there was any physical abuse then I retract everything I've said but that doesn't seem to be the case. Handle your problems with your teammates in house, don't go crying to the media and mom and dad. It appears to me he was never gonna make it in the NFL and he dragged Incognito and the team down with him for monetary gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 This is the NFL were talking about not some random office. If you can't take the locker room atmosphere get the fuck out. These aren't scholors. Theyre meatheads. They will always be meatheads and the day they're not you can keep your new pussy league where the tackles are now two handed ass grabs. I'll be done with it. A meathead who went to Stanford... Just again proving your ignorance to the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Whatever Mark. You're being obtuse. You know the truth is that for every one guy who went to Stanford you have 50 Trent richardsons "Pittsburgh is one of the goodest teams on the league" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Ignorance is bliss I suppose. The last thing I'll leave here is a quote from Doug Baldwin of the Seahawks. I think this sums up what i'm trying to get across here perfectly: "A lot of people might look at Jonathan Martin and think that he's soft because he stepped away from the game, and say, 'Why don't you just fight him?'" said Seattle Seahawks receiver Doug Baldwin, who played with Martin at Stanford. "Well, if you look at it with common sense and being logical, what options did Jonathan Martin have? "He could fight Richie Incognito. He could go and tell on the players, which we know in the football locker room doesn't go over too well. Or he could remove himself from the situation and let the proper channels take care of itself. And I think he made the intelligent, smart choice without putting himself or Richie Incognito's physical abilities in danger." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Here's who was not pleased with Jonathan Martin: His team, his coach, the gm. Who else? And now he's going to sue them because they were mean. He'll never find gainful employment in the league again, and I think you guys defending him ought to go watch whatever is gayer and less manly than soccer. Watching male ballet dancers tiptoe around the maypole perhaps? I bet everyone would be nice to you there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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