$15 fast food workers

[medicineman]

I will say that fast food is NOT any easy job, not a hard job. I think I worked at Mcdonald's Rax, Wendy's etc Just about all of them in High School. At that time minimum wage was 4.25 per hour. Did I think we deserved more????? In all honesty I did not. I thought it was "cool" I had a job and my own cash. I sucked going home from work at midnight and smell like grease and have to get up and go to school in the morning but I did it all the time staying on the Honor Roll. And believe me if I can do that ANYBODY can/could and I always wanted something better so I was always trying to put apps in at every place I could find where the pay was better than a fast food shit hole.

[Westside Steve]

Also, I am still waiting for someone to tell me why all of the past minimum wage hikes have been a bad or good idea. If they were a good idea, then what makes this one so much worse?

First of all you do indeed argue against meritocracy. If you think the workers with with the lowest ambition, ability, intelligence whatever... Should be paid substantially more than they earn now you are arguing against meritocracy. That's just the fact. Just because you support it for yourself is meaningless. (that's kind of the liberal mantra, fairness for everybody! Well, everybody but me of course.)

I just assume that in most of the time you don't fully understand what you said. Of course I basically agree with the rest. I think you probably have a gift for what you do and the perseverance to get the degree. If the world needs engineers supply and demand should earn you more money.

 

I completely disagree with Osiris about teachers whom I think get paid a great deal of money for a job is pretty easily replaced. The only reason they make a great deal more than average workers is the Union. It really is a job that I believe every person on this board to do with three months of training.

 

but your question? I don't think there should be a minimum wage. I believe businesses need competent workers and if they can't get them they will have to pay what the job is worth, not an artificially inflated price set by the government.

 

Also if the guy with 4 kids should have thought about it first what of the argument that someone should be able to support a family on minimum wage? Should they or shouldn't they?

 

WSS

[BrownsKidd]

 

Really? You actually think that? Really?

 

Well for one there is absolutely no future in a fast food job. There is no career progression to be had (though a few may actually become a manager or higher). You will do that for the rest of your life. I'm guessing the benefits suck as well, not to mention it is generally just a shitty job.

 

 

So if there isn't any where to go, then why value the jobs at higher pay rate. Your absolutely right in this regards. Fast Food jobs are not meant to sustain a "comfortable" lifestyle. When I was younger I remember seeing all the jobs adverts that McD's would post. They always had pictures of younger people or seniors needing extra income. They were never meant for someone to try and live off of let along raise a family on. These jobs are entry level workforce jobs for high school and college kids. But the problem is that there is now too many high school and college drop outs (or never attended) expecting McD's to somehow compensate for poor life choices and the lack of drive to better yourself. That is in no way McD's, Burger King or Taco Bell's fault and is not their responsibility to baby sit adults.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

The owners make out like bandits in these places also. No benefits. Minimum wages, except for the Managers. Standing on your feet 8 hours in a 90 plus degree kitchen with fat asses changing their minds on orders you already made. Grease, slop etc. People throwing their garbage all over the parking lot. I can understand their frustration. Half the people who work quit after one or a few days.

[BrownsKidd]

Also if the guy with 4 kids should have thought about it first what of the argument that someone should be able to support a family on minimum wage? Should they or shouldn't they?

 

WSS

 

Fast Food jobs were never meant to sustain a family of 5 or 6. See my previous post.

[Westside Steve]

 

Fast Food jobs were never meant to sustain a family of 5 or 6. See my previous post.

of course not. My post was directed toward woody who apparently thinks the minimum wage should be an amount that would sustain a family.

 

Also I think we are making a mistake by referencing fast food jobs when in fact any lower level job is what we are discussing.

I have worked a few minimum wage jobs in the past just never in fast food. None of them took an incredible amount of ability.

WSS

[BrownsKidd]

The owners make out like bandits in these places also. No benefits. Minimum wages, except for the Managers. Standing on your feet 8 hours in a 90 plus degree kitchen with fat asses changing their minds on orders you already made. Grease, slop etc. People throwing their garbage all over the parking lot. I can understand their frustration. Half the people who work quit after one or a few days.

 

How do you know? I've seen owners working at franchises because they need to work there. I know a guy that owns a few DQ restaurants. It's not nearly as lucrative as you are stating. He also makes money on real estate and some properties.

 

There are also a ton of other jobs out there that WILL pay a lot more. I think this past Christmas Hobby Lobby was hiring at 12-14 bucks an hour. I was like, really? That's not too bad. But you know why some people won't work there. 1. Criminal history probably keeps them out. 2. They may lose their government subsidies.

 

Also, you could probably stand on your feet working 8 hours a day in 90 heat working construction and probably make a lot more than minimum wage. Hell, my wife is the Employment Manager at a factory and they start people out as "Drivers", just moving goods around the factory at about $14.00. Then with the union there are certain increases mandatory. in 10 years they could be making great money. But guess what. You won't see the majority of fast food workers there because they are lazy, and most wouldn't pass criminal and drug screens. Again, poor life choices are not the responsibility of the employer. Personal and Social responsibility rests on the shoulder of the individual.

[BrownsKidd]

of course not. My post was directed toward woody who apparently thinks the minimum wage should be an amount that would sustain a family.

 

Also I think we are making a mistake by referencing fast food jobs when in fact any lower level job is what we are discussing.

I have worked a few minimum wage jobs in the past just never in fast food. None of them took an incredible amount of ability.

WSS

You are correct, but most articles you see online are always point at the McD's or the FFI.

[FairHooker11]

the raise in the minimum wage is just a reflection of a bigger problem that economics experts can answer better -

 

"we need tom tupa" here

 

the raise in min wage is like the bandaid the government puts on the debt ceiling, or all the QE's to build up an artificial

 

bubble of so called wealth?

 

Its Lose - Lose when reality hits - like that of minimum wage requrements for small business owners, the cost of goods and services will go up,

 

and unemployment increases

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

How do you know? I've seen owners working at franchises because they need to work there. I know a guy that owns a few DQ restaurants. It's not nearly as lucrative as you are stating. He also makes money on real estate and some properties.

 

There are also a ton of other jobs out there that WILL pay a lot more. I think this past Christmas Hobby Lobby was hiring at 12-14 bucks an hour. I was like, really? That's not too bad. But you know why some people won't work there. 1. Criminal history probably keeps them out. 2. They may lose their government subsidies.

 

Also, you could probably stand on your feet working 8 hours a day in 90 heat working construction and probably make a lot more than minimum wage. Hell, my wife is the Employment Manager at a factory and they start people out as "Drivers", just moving goods around the factory at about $14.00. Then with the union there are certain increases mandatory. in 10 years they could be making great money. But guess what. You won't see the majority of fast food workers there because they are lazy, and most wouldn't pass criminal and drug screens. Again, poor life choices are not the responsibility of the employer. Personal and Social responsibility rests on the shoulder of the individual.

I'm not defending the wage increase. I'm just stating the fact that owners have slave labor working for them in the fast food industry.

[BrownsKidd]

the raise in the minimum wage is just a reflection of a bigger problem that economics experts can answer better -

 

"we need tom tupa" here

 

the raise in min wage is like the bandaid the government puts on the debt ceiling, or all the QE's to build up an artificial

 

bubble of so called wealth?

 

Its Lose - Lose when reality hits - like that of minimum wage requrements for small business owners, the cost of goods and services will go up,

 

and unemployment increases

Your correct, it's just a bandaid on a bleeding artery. People want to bitch and moan but if you want to get these people out of the FFI, they have to want to be out themselves. Then we need to do something about the every increasing cost of higher education in this country. That is how you get out of the FFI and minimum wage or lower level jobs. You better yourself. But here is the catch 22. In order to do so you have to somehow be able to afford to go to college. Minimum wage and rasing it isn't the answer, we have to do something to educate people to get themselves out. But you have to want to get out.. and many, IMO, don't.

[BrownsKidd]

I'm not defending the wage increase. I'm just stating the fact that owners have slave labor working for them in the fast food industry.

I worked at McD's and got paid Minimum when I went to college. I never once considered myself a slave. I also changed oil at a quick lube shop, made $5.50 an hour. I wasn't a slave. But that's what my unskilled ass deserved to be paid. I wasn't crying to congress or the government to double my wages at the time. But, I worked hard, and no longer make that kind of money. And calling it "slave" labor is hardly relative to actual slaves. Slaves had no where to go. Most employers are at will, meaning them or the associate can leave at any time.

[Westside Steve]

You are correct, but most articles you see online are always point at the McD's or the FFI.

And you are correct as well. I just think the conversation should encompass all minimum wage jobs, most of them a lot easier or harder than fast food.

I haven't had many jobs besides entertaining but back in the 70s I had short disposable stints with day jobs. I worked in a factory and as a janitor.

The factory job could have been done by a monkey but we were always hiring.

The janitorial position ended abruptly when I was caught sleeping on the job. Oh well.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I worked at McD's and got paid Minimum when I went to college. I never once considered myself a slave. I also changed oil at a quick lube shop, made $5.50 an hour. I wasn't a slave. But that's what my unskilled ass deserved to be paid. I wasn't crying to congress or the government to double my wages at the time. But, I worked hard, and no longer make that kind of money. And calling it "slave" labor is hardly relative to actual slaves. Slaves had no where to go. Most employers are at will, meaning them or the associate can leave at any time.

You probably fucked off half the time also, like most kids do. My brother also worked in McDonalds while going to college. He busted his ass and made manager while attending school full time. He did tell me stories of killing flys and mixing them with the special sauce.

[Westside Steve]

Well there's the rub, die hard. I would imagine it's harder to fuck off at McDonalds. I couldn't really fuck off at the factory. We were standing there and iris stations doing whatever we were doing with the foreman walking around bitching the whole time.

 

Also I don't know if other places are different than Summit County but I don't remember a time when McDonalds didn't at least pay a dollar or so more than minimum.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I made $320.70 per month plus a little combat pay for being shot at in 1972. What is that per hour? Hint, more then 40 hours a week.

[BrownsKidd]

You probably fucked off half the time also, like most kids do.

Uh no. Nice try in lumping me in with everyone else. Your logic belittles you. I work for a large global manufacturer, along with my wife. She actually just took a promotion and we are relocating to North Carolina. We are doing pretty good for ourselves. Can't say that slaking off had anything to do with it or got me where I am today.

[BrownsKidd]

I made $320.70 per month plus a little combat pay for being shot at in 1972. What is that per hour? Hint, more then 40 hours a week.

And is that right? Probably not. But you can think the government for putting value on your service. I think servicemen and vets are horribly under paid and under appreciated. Thank you for your service.

[MLD Woody]

First of all you do indeed argue against meritocracy. If you think the workers with with the lowest ambition, ability, intelligence whatever... Should be paid substantially more than they earn now you are arguing against meritocracy. That's just the fact. Just because you support it for yourself is meaningless. (that's kind of the liberal mantra, fairness for everybody! Well, everybody but me of course.)

I just assume that in most of the time you don't fully understand what you said. Of course I basically agree with the rest. I think you probably have a gift for what you do and the perseverance to get the degree. If the world needs engineers supply and demand should earn you more money.

 

 

WSS

 

Again, I'm not arguing against it. "Substantially"? I have said, multiple times, I'm not really for the $15. .... I understand exactly what I say, others hear though, I don't think they do. Prime example is me defending myself from comments I never made because others can't seem to understand whatever I typed.

 

Other wages over time will be naturally adjusted for inflation because their is a demand for these workers. In a sense, the more you are getting paid the more valuable of a skillet you have. The lower the supply and the higher the demand. The lowest paid jobs will not naturally adjust for inflation though. There is a giant supply of low skilled workers, or workers just looking for anything. If the fast food place raises its wages next door, you don't necessarily have to at your fast food place, because there is still plenty of supply. If no one over mandated a salary for these workers it would be incredibly low, and it would nver adjust to inflation. A min wage hike is basically just a rebalancing for inflation. You can see that on that graph I posted.

[MLD Woody]

So... at all points in our history the minimum wage hikes have been a bad idea. Got it

[Westside Steve]

So... at all points in our history the minimum wage hikes have been a bad idea. Got it

They, along with many other things, have been inflationary. So true. They have not been a good idea.

And no, there isn't an inexhaustible supply of low wage low skilled workers.

That's why almost no employer offers the minimum wage. And they still can't get as many workers as they might like to have.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Say, learn something every day !

 

Woodpeckers can DANCE !!!

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

 

Really? You actually think that? Really?

 

Well for one there is absolutely no future in a fast food job. There is no career progression to be had (though a few may actually become a manager or higher). You will do that for the rest of your life. I'm guessing the benefits suck as well, not to mention it is generally just a shitty job.

 

If you went $100,000 in to debt to only make $17 an hour then you fucked up somewhere. You got a degree that wasn't marketable and over paid for it. But still, in that situation, you at least have the chance to progress in your career. You have a degree, you have some set of skills (hopefully). You aren't stuck in fast food.

 

there's million of people working in factories making around $15/hr that would love to leave the 130 degree factories with back breaking work, with severe long term health risks, and no brighter future. To go work in an air conditioned building, and flip some burgers.....And there everywere, so I dont have to drive 40 mins to work anymore, I can walk to McD's in 10 minutes. I'd give up $2/hr for that alone.

[Pumpkin Eater]

These wages don't exist in a vacuum. Also, it could be that minimum is currently lagging behind in this "endless cycle". Also, I never said everything stays the same. I'm saying a 40% or whatever minimum wage increase won't mean a 40% increase in everything else. You act like what I'm saying is Retarded but there are plenty of economic reports on the issue.

 

An increase in the minimum wage won't be an issue for EVERY employer.

Uh, yes it will. That employer at some point will use resources that have increased in price because somewhere along the line a company has had to pay its workers more

[Westside Steve]

there's million of people working in factories making around $15/hr that would love to leave the 130 degree factories with back breaking work, with severe long term health risks, and no brighter future. To go work in an air conditioned building, and flip some burgers.....And there everywere, so I dont have to drive 40 mins to work anymore, I can walk to McD's in 10 minutes. I'd give up $2/hr for that alone.

There Are shithole factories all over the place paying 7.50 an hour.

 

And fast food workers can go to assistant manager night manager manager area manager district manager?.... why would you think there was no place for advancements in such a huge corporation?

WSS

[MLD Woody]

For the amount of people working in fast food, and the small number of regional manager jobs, that isn't really much career security. (I'm only counting regional managers. Assistant managers and managers make jack shit still). It isn't a viable career.

[MLD Woody]

 

there's million of people working in factories making around $15/hr that would love to leave the 130 degree factories with back breaking work, with severe long term health risks, and no brighter future. To go work in an air conditioned building, and flip some burgers.....And there everywere, so I dont have to drive 40 mins to work anymore, I can walk to McD's in 10 minutes. I'd give up $2/hr for that alone.

 

130 degree heat factories? Damn, well that sucks. What would that be, working near a kiln all day? or a foundry? Some of the places I went to within the plant for my first internship were pretty hot, idk about 130 degrees though.

 

 

A lot of factory jobs are also shitty and do not pay much. The less skill or specialization you bring to the process, the less you'll get paid.

 

I know at my co-op with an auto company 2 winters ago, the workers were paid pretty decently though. Still, some tough work.

[Westside Steve]

For the amount of people working in fast food, and the small number of regional manager jobs, that isn't really much career security. (I'm only counting regional managers. Assistant managers and managers make jack shit still). It isn't a viable career.

What do you expect? How about that minimum wage factory job? How many grunts are going to make it to Forman? Come on everybody isnt the management material. These jobs are meant to be disposable.

If you are looking for a career your shit together well enough to have one somewhere I wouldn't suggest fast food or the assembly line in the factory.

 

and when I worked at the factory I don't know if it was 130 degrees but it was winter time when I worked there. And it was cold as a witches tit especially when we had the enviable task standing outside beating 1 pound anodes against a brick to break out the frozen tar.

 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

ugh Steve.... pay attention. This conversation from this thread branched off from the following post:

 

 

People would leave there jobs in droves, lining up for a fast food job if that happened. College enrollment would drop dramatically. Why go 100,000 in debt for a degree to make 17 dollars an hour when I can get a job out of highschool making 15 with no skills required?

 

Which I think is ridiculous. I was trying to make the point how ridiculous this was, that people would leave their jobs in droves, skip college, and work in fast food. You seem to pretty much agree with me on this too.

 

It has nothing to do with factory jobs really. Maybe some people working in shit factories would try to move over, but its really just a lateral move.

 

The idea "college enrollment would drop dramatically" is Retarded.

 

 

So, before you jump in and take me any further off track and I start having to defend myself from things I never said, ^that^ was where my following posts came from. I was trying to show how stupid that post was.

[Westside Steve]

ugh Steve.... pay attention. This conversation from this thread branched off from the following post:

 

 

 

Which I think is ridiculous. I was trying to make the point how ridiculous this was, that people would leave their jobs in droves, skip college, and work in fast food. You seem to pretty much agree with me on this too.

 

It has nothing to do with factory jobs really. Maybe some people working in shit factories would try to move over, but its really just a lateral move.

 

The idea "college enrollment would drop dramatically" is Retarded.

 

 

So, before you jump in and take me any further off track and I start having to defend myself from things I never said, ^that^ was where my following posts came from. I was trying to show how stupid that post was.

 

I responded to what you said you f****** moron.

WSS