Hoyer will start !

[Westside Steve]

just curious, did any of you guys root for the Cowboys or the Dolphins when Bernie was shown the door?

be honest. Did anyone go so far as to have a Cowboys or Dolphins jersey in his home?

I've seen them so I know they exist...

 

WSS

[tivy74]

It's just so that the old people don't read it and run him out of town.

Ha...I am one of those old people and I just didn't notice.

[tivy74]

 

looks lilke everything isn't bigger in Texas.

 

shit-can that font and post like a man....assuming that's what you are

 

jff does have a history of shutting down the naysayers. my perception is that he uses the negativity as motivation. it's a mystery to me why there are so many jff haters out there in the

 

first place. he's prolly an arrogant prick which is ok in my book as long as his play can back up the smack factor.

 

the hurdle he faces now is whether or not the three hundred plus hits he took in college running the ball leave him with enough durability to become the qb leader the browns so

 

desperately need

Should I post a picture of a body part with tats to show you what a stud I am? JFF is pretty high up on the arrogance/confidence scale.

[tivy74]

Once in a while I will meet a guy from Ohio whos a Steelers fan and claims it's because his father was a Steelers fan. I think thats unnatural but... As I see it if Johnny football takes the Cleveland Browns deep into the playoffs or Super Bowl and these Texas boys kids grow up rooting for the Cleveland Browns I'm good with it. I have no wish to see Brian Hoyer fail but neither do I have a wish to see Johnny football fail.

 

Welcome to the pound pardners.

 

 

WSS

You are seeing lots of Cleveland gear in Texas stores now. Their will be a lot of folks signing up for NFL Sunday Ticket if Johnny gets the nod over Hoyer.

[miktoxic]

You are seeing lots of Cleveland gear in Texas stores now. Their will be a lot of folks signing up for NFL Sunday Ticket if Johnny gets the nod over Hoyer.

who cares what happens in texas unless you live there.

 

and who in their right mind would do that?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Ft. Bliss was damn nice for 3 weeks after being in Ft. Puke (Polk) LA for a few months of Infantry training. We ate of of dishes and everything.

[miktoxic]

fort bliss for artillery training. a lot of boom boom.

 

same terrain as north africa.

 

wonder if they got ebola there too?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

They picked me and a couple others to go to Redeye Missile School. Which later I believe became the Stinger.

[sisky fringo]

just curious, did any of you guys root for the Cowboys or the Dolphins when Bernie was shown the door?

be honest. Did anyone go so far as to have a Cowboys or Dolphins jersey in his home?

I've seen them so I know they exist...

 

WSS

would owning one of those jerseys be better or worse than taping over "Kosar" and writing in "Austin"?

 

just curious what others think.

[Westside Steve]

You are seeing lots of Cleveland gear in Texas stores now. Their will be a lot of folks signing up for NFL Sunday Ticket if Johnny gets the nod over Hoyer.

good. Better us then the fucking Steelers or Packers or Cowboys.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

would owning one of those jerseys be better or worse than taping over "Kosar" and writing in "Austin"?

 

just curious what others think.

Who has one of those?

WSS

[miktoxic]

steve's right.

 

i think we all will agree that the foundation of the browns fan base has always been eclectic at best.

 

wanna buy a used leroy hoard jersey signed and sweated upon...........

 

$5 +free shipping.

[sisky fringo]

Translation perhaps: " I am hoping that Manziel will be the starter for the Browns.....because almost never in history has a defense that I have been in charge of ever lost to a rookie QB. (this is in fact true), and in probably my final year in the league I would like to see this team make the playoffs, and if the Browns start a rookie against us twice, that is 2 wins under our belts that we don't have to worry about."

 

(per some research I have done, the only time a rookie QB has defeated LeBeau in a fair, straight up game was..........guess who.......Brandon Weeden. That was when the Browns forced like 8 fumbles vs. the Steelers.

The Steelers also lost to rookie Troy Smith....but that was an end of the year throw in game where the Steelers only played their starters for maybe a series..

i was at that game w the 8 turnovers...one of the best days of my life as a Brown. it was magnificent.

 

but...you missed the Quinn win under Mangenius. Eric did it with a lil help from his 3-4 D and a straightforward offensive game-plan built around ball control and taking care of the football with an emphasis on fundamentals and minimizing mistakes. and i believe it could be replicated with solid and unspectacular yet mistake-free play from either BH or JM.

 

i'll admit, if the score were tied in overtime if JFF legitimately got them that far i'd rather have his intangibles and moxy in there for the final shootout. Hoyer is solid, but if Johnny can surpass him and stay healthy, his passion, unpredictability, and potential high ceiling could finally be the final major piece to our puzzle.

[sisky fringo]

You guys don't seem to understand that Johnny is the worst he's going to be right now. He's only going to get better the more comfortable he gets with everything. The ceiling for Hoyer right now is not nearly as high.

 

there isn't a regular on this board who didn't know that a year ago.

 

continue to dazzle and amaze us with your divine insight oh great Banjo!

 

how's your first month being an NFL fan going so far?

[sisky fringo]

 

Then say what you mean. You said you judged Hoyer better than Johnny based on NFL experience. If that's all you're judging on, then we can conclude two things: 1) you're dumb as fuck; and 2) Hoyer is going to be superior to any prospect coming out in the NFL draft, no matter how good they are, because they have no NFL experience with which to compare.

 

You said you judge Hoyer on real experience in real game when comparing him to Johnny, but then talk out of your ass and say you judge Luck based on his experience at Stanford playing in the Pac12. If you don't think Johnny is better, then say it. Lay your evaluation nuts out there. Don't hide behind this no NFL experience bullshit.

 

if Manziel were Luck he woulda been taken #1 overall weeks before the draft. #1 overall vs #22 overall?? apples and...coffee?

 

if Hoyer were on the Colts roster Luck most likely woulda had to outplay him for the start there too...and probably would have. in that situation with a guy like Luck who's 6'5", huge, super athletic and talented and w a football IQ high as Josh Gordon's entourage...if it's even close in preseason you obviously go with Luck.

 

and i have no problem saying it. i don't think rookie Johnny Manziel is as good as rookie Andrew Luck...like that's even a reach!

[Tour2ma]

You don't understand differences in the argument of why Manziel shouldn't sit like Aaron Rodgers and why he will play when he is ready? Really?

I do... I was seeing if you did. Now it is clear that you do not, so you are only left with "making shit up" about me, thus setting you on the path to Mikey-land...

 

Have a nice trip!

 

OK, you said it a lot better than I did, but you know what I meant...

No offense meant... just answering a question you posed from the opposite direction.

 

Rhetorical is apparently harder to suss out than sarcasm...

 

That's not a fact but quite an inaccurate generalization.

 

Sure, the plan was to sit some of these guys but with the way Bortles, Manziel, and Bridgewater have played in Camp, I'm sure they could all 3 possibly start.

My original statement was not meant to be taken as a fact... just my opinion based upon where QBs have been taken the past two drafts. However, as such, it is not a "generalization", but rather a specific observation based on the past two seasons. What follows is my generalized opinion which I believe the facts bear out.

 

QBs who are drafted to be season one, game one starters tend to go high... top ten, if not top five. Occasionally a lower choice surprises a team and starts right away (Russell Wilson is the latest example), but they are not common.

 

just curious, did any of you guys root for the Cowboys or the Dolphins when Bernie was shown the door?

be honest. Did anyone go so far as to have a Cowboys or Dolphins jersey in his home?

No and no... I did however root for Bernie... which was really hard when he was a Cowboy.

 

Have I mentioned lately that I hate the Cowboys?

[Tour2ma]

if Manziel were Luck he woulda been taken #1 overall weeks before the draft. #1 overall vs #22 overall?? apples and...coffee?

 

if Hoyer were on the Colts roster Luck most likely woulda had to outplay him for the start there too...and probably would have. in that situation with a guy like Luck who's 6"5, huge, super athletic and talented and w a football IQ high as Josh Gordon's entourage...if it's even close in preseason you obviously go with Luck.

 

and i have no problem saying it. i don't think rookie Johnny Manziel is as good as rookie Andrew Luck...like that's even a reach!

"apples and... coffee"... Loved it!

 

Unfair! There's no comparison between Luck's skill set and any rookie QB is a while. Even against "The Mighty Hoyer" the competition would have been over by the end of OTAs.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

QBs who are drafted to be season one, game one starters tend to go high... top ten, if not top five. Occasionally a lower choice surprises a team and starts right away (Russell Wilson is the latest example), but they are not common.

 

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.

 

Was Manziel drafted to be the starting QB for the Browns? Undeniably so. You don't draft a player, much less a QB, in the first round unless you absolutely expect him to start.

 

Where the sliding scale comes in is WHEN you draft said quarterback in the first round.

 

Teams picking in the second half of the draft rarely are in dire need of a franchise QB. I say rarely because there are circumstances that may dictate a QB-less team picking later in the first round (good trades the day of, bad trades from prior GM's, NFL sanctions...).

 

However, generally speaking, if you're picking in the bottom 15, you probably have a QB who you think you can win with. Teams rarely, in normal circumstances, finish better than .500 and say "I NEED A QB AND I NEED IT NOW".

 

As Stockton likes to reference, look at the Packers. They had a HOF QB with two years left on his contract, but knew they needed an heir apparent, so they took an extremely talented college QB who's stock slid. They didn't need him to start immediately.

 

The Seahawks shelled out big bucks for a guy (who, coincidentally, backed up the QB in my previous example) and thought him to be their franchise QB. They took a chance on a guy with all the intangibles yet was considered undersized. He turned out to be a pleasant surprise.

 

When you start digging for direly needed day one starters in the bargain basement pile, like the Browns did with Quinn, you run into problems.

 

Manziel was taken to start. But, if he was truly thought of as a "can't-miss, day one starter" prospect akin to Andrew Luck by our staff, they'd have traded up to get him.

 

A good rule of thumb - if you need a QB, you take the highest rated guy on your board as soon as possible. If the highest rated guy on your board projects as a third round talent in a QB rich draft, you either have Belichick as your coach or (more likely) your scouting staff needs to be fired.

[sisky fringo]

I post like Manziel is going to have the job. Which you should clearly see unless you have a very small football IQ. He was drafted to be the starter, and he will be the starter the minute the coaches determine he's ready (which if you believe the reports this week, is getting closer and closer). If you want you can consider that as him "earning" it, I mean he does have to learn a certain amount before they'll let him start.

 

and Hoyer walks, talks, and acts like he has the job right now, because right now he does. your posting shows you are putting one player ahead of the entire team...which to me says you are not a fan of the team. we are all excited like kids who unwrapped new shiny toys but have yet to play...but if you don't see how ur attitude alienates players within a franchise your FB IQ as pretty fucking abysmal.

and lol @ ur fave goto tagline

 

"football IQ"...it's been a while since a newb tossed that around so much here.

 

and "selling presumptively" doesn't work here pal. if folks with "big football IQ's" in the organization and fanbase did this Cleveland wouldn't have a team in 5 years. players like Skrine, Greco, Kruger and Sheard to name a few...it wouldn't be locker room cancer, it would be epidemic.

last year the coaches gave Weeden the figurative "nod" and it was "his job to lose" based on being a return-starter who won a few games and seemed to have potential but still had a limited body of work to fully evaulate him. not sure if they dangled "qb competition" in front of Jason Campbell or what but he seemed noticeably disgruntled and his attitude affected at times...then next thing you know Hoyer leapfroggs him on the roster and is starting games. sd the reasoning was "we feel Hoyer gives us a better chance to win this week" coach-speak yada yada.

Hoyer is not in Weeden's position...it is in fact a "true competition". Hoyer understands that. JFF understands that. Conner and Thig understand that. with ur embarrassing FB IQ even you should be capable of understanding that. so there's no need to get butt hurt like Campbell was or troll Browns fans taking the appropriate "wait-and-see" approach.

 

just sit back and let the players prove it on the field. the starter will shake out soon enough>>within the next 8 days in fact. and if a franchise QB is on the roster...we will most likely know by this year. what's not to like about that?!?!?

 

after 8 months of football drought filled with staff firings, hirings, player additions and subtractions, drafting, new stadium additions, multiple legal issues, some injuries and also completed rehabs...this season promises to be one of the most anticipated i can ever remember.

 

You seem to be under the very wrong idea that the coaches are going "Well we have Manziel AND Hoyer, and let's let them battle it out to see who our QB of the future is". Nope. It's already been decided, the minute the Browns picked Manziel at 22. NOW if you're saying that doesn't mean he'll be great, then you're right. Who knows exactly how good Manziel will be, but the idea that he's somehow not going to be the Browns starter at some point, and most likely some point very soon, is....wrong....so very, very wrong.

 

after this post i see there is clearly no hope for you. you obviously never gave us the courtesy to have invested in us and lurked. you repeat your bias ands opinions ad nauseum offering nothing of value and frankly u arent worth my time or energy. after this post i will no longer see ur trolling cuz u goin on "ignore". adios fuckface!

 

[Tour2ma]

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.

...but then you went ahead and said it better anyway... ... or at least took it deeper...

 

 

I'm trying to think of the last QB drafted outside of the top ten that was clearly drafted to be the immediate starter. My pride won't let it be Wheezy... although it became pretty clear that QB competition was a sham. I believe Marino qualifies since the Fins went 7-2 despite David Woodley in '82.

 

Looks like most recent example was the Ravens taking Flacco at #18 overall in 2008.

[StocktonShorts]

I like the blue.

Hoyer isn't going to be the starter long term. It's not a competition. Its a "Hoyer can start until we think Manziel is ready". Manziel isn't even competing against Hoyer he's competing against what the coaches expectations are. Once he meets those, Hoyer is out. Doesn't mean I think Manziel is going to be awesome, because I don't know. He could suck. However the idea that he's somehow competing to be the long term QB, and not being groomed to be the long term QB is wrong.

If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ. There's no gray area here, that's the black and white of it.

[Tour2ma]

What do Picasso and Frisky have in common?

 

and Hoyer walks, talks, and acts like he has the job right now, because right now he does.

[StocktonShorts]

What do Picasso and Frisky have in common?

 

 

Picasso have unrealistic ideas about the abilities of Brian Hoyer as well?

[Tour2ma]

Picasso have unrealistic ideas about the abilities of Brian Hoyer as well?

[Zombo]

 

If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ.

 

Mikey Lives!

 

Zombo

--glad we still have someone to parry with Tour

[sisky fringo]

I don't know how soon Manziel will be the starter, you're right. I do know he WILL be the starter at some point. That can not be denied. If you think I'm wrong, by all means tell me so.

 

And I did watch Hoyer last year. From his 3 INT game against Minny to his very good game where they didn't ask him to do much against the Bengals, to the brief appearance in the Buffalo game where he attempted the most nonathletic slide in NFL history. I watched every second.

 

Those who think Brian Hoyer is a good, quality, NFL QB....you are the ones I question if you actually watched those games.

 

You can talk about "Manziel Fanboys" all you want around here, but none of this has anything to do with Manziel. Its the "Hoyer Fanboys" who have somehow reinvented a career backup into a future HOF off of two complete games, neither of which did he look much better than say a Mark Sanchez.

 

You seem to ignore the fact that the Browns themselves decided they love Hoyer so much, that they took a QB in the 1st round. Doesn't matter it was Manziel, it would've been Teddy B otherwise, but either way they went into the draft saying "We need a QB, and badly" and went out and got one. That's how good the Browns think Brian Hoyer is.

 

You can try to pretend that you're fighting these "Manziel Trolls" all you want, but some people are smart enough to realize that the future QB is Manziel, so might as well get on board now and hope he's good. Hoyer is a bookmark until the Manziel era begins. Thats not being a fanboy, thats understanding NFL football.

 

as long as we're speaking hypotheticals and putting words in other's mouths, my version has this fantasy closer to something like this:

 

"We have a promising and competent looking vet QB in his prime...but he's just coming back from an injury. With a billion dollar organization, that is plain and simply not enough to go into a season with. At draft time, when we saw a guy who was rated high by many accounts slide to #22, at that value we felt it was worth taking a shot on him to help fill our needs. He's a high risk/high reward boom or bust kid with insane intangibles...but has a wreckless--yet very effective vs college players--playing style.

 

Between the two, we feel we're going into this season with each of them off-setting the risks of the other. But you never know, we very well may draft a QB again next year...and to that end, it's fortunate that we have some extra ammo in the form of the 1st rd pick we got from the Bills."

 

>> that same pick they felt was more valuable and important to acquire "just in case" than draft ANY of the QB's at the top of the draft.

 

 

what you suggest by tossing the evaluating process and going "all-in" on Manziel is akin to gambling. the gambler approach can help you lose your franchise.

grinders take the long view and hedge their bets...and put themselves in advantageous positions to take down the gamblers at the right moment. taking this grifter attitude to the NFL has won superbowls.

 

they did not draft JFF to be the starter. they drafted Manziel for the exact same reason they acquired Thigpen, Young, Shaw, same reason previous FO acquired Hoyer...A CHANCE TO FIND THE CLEVELAND BROWNS FRANCHISE QB OF THE FUTURE.

starting is temporary, and a band-aid won't get CLE a ring. Franchise QB or bust!

 

 

fwiw Shaw had the fastest time of all QB's at the combine (4.62) and had the best touchdown to interception ratio in the NCAA. same as ur Johnny's "Lumbergh" i'd bet somewhere out there Connor Shaw has a version of his own Lumbergh as well. we regulars are not Lumbergh's for Hoyer. we are Browns fans, plain and simple. even the day Belicheat benched Bernie, never stopped being a Browns fan for a second my entire life. you will never understand this mentality. you are a grifter troll attempting to be guile using a poor Browns guise--a Manziel fan in fake Browns clothing. and had Manziel been drafted by another of the 31 other teams, you would be posing as a fan of theirs trolling their boards as i type this.

 

if you wanna crown em prematurely by all means have at it fanboy, crown em. if Manziel ever happens to become that guy ur trophy will still say nothing more than "you happened to guess right"

[Westside Steve]

I like the blue.

 

Hoyer isn't going to be the starter long term. It's not a competition. Its a "Hoyer can start until we think Manziel is ready". Manziel isn't even competing against Hoyer he's competing against what the coaches expectations are. Once he meets those, Hoyer is out. Doesn't mean I think Manziel is going to be awesome, because I don't know. He could suck. However the idea that he's somehow competing to be the long term QB, and not being groomed to be the long term QB is wrong.

 

If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ. There's no gray area here, that's the black and white of it.

that certainly is the logical view.. I assume if the front office had as much faith in Brian Hoyer as the ousted administration they might have gone with a lower round pick for a second quarterback.

if for some reason Brian Hoyer goes 16 and 0 then great. if he does not I will be cheering for Johnny to live up to the hype. And as always the next guy to beat the Steelers is my boy.

WSS

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

...but then you went ahead and said it better anyway... ... or at least took it deeper...

 

 

I'm trying to think of the last QB drafted outside of the top ten that was clearly drafted to be the immediate starter. My pride won't let it be Wheezy... although it became pretty clear that QB competition was a sham. I believe Marino qualifies since the Fins went 7-2 despite David Woodley in '82.

 

Looks like most recent example was the Ravens taking Flacco at #18 overall in 2008.

 

Interesting that you went with Flacco. He's certainly the most successful and his success does dispute my claim a tiny bit.

 

The thing about Flacco is that he was considered a reach at #17 by many, most analysts claimed they thought he'd be available in the early second. He was clearly taken to be their starter since they had nobody else and he had no competition throughout camp.

 

Flacco, like Marino, is the exception to the rule. More often than not, though, you get situations like Druckenmiller, Losman, Freeman, Tebow (kind of), etc. where the guy is available, you know you'll need a QB soon, so you take him late first and try and groom him behind another QB but it just doesn't work out.

 

 

Aside: I found this tidbit funny from CBSSports.com

 

Compares To: DEREK ANDERSON-Cleveland … Few quarterbacks in the NFL tower over a defensive line like Flacco and Anderson. Flacco has nowhere near Anderson's mobility moving around the backfield, but both have great confidence in their arm strength and ability to make all the throws. He has become the new girl on the dance floor in recent months, thanks to a decent showing in postseason all-star games. But be warned: Don't look at him as a product ready to step into the action at the next level. He came from a bad high school system, was held in mild regard at Pittsburgh and is basically a self-taught prospect, making him a work in progress who'll need time to learn the intricacies of the position. He probably has the best arm of any quarterback in this draft. But he also lacks experience, is unproven against top-level competition, played mostly in the shotgun and has barely adequate mobility. That combination makes him a risk if he's chosen in the top two rounds.

 

[sisky fringo]

I don't know how many times I've said JM will be the starter WHEN HES READY. Thats all the Browns are waiting on. When he gets to the level they think he needs to be at, he's the starter. How is that saying they should hand him the job now?

 

Everything the Browns are doing is about Manziel. Its all about getting him ready. When he's ready the job is his.

 

how is this any different than any player on the QB roster? they are only focused on Manziel? the others are simply camp arms?? WRONG. he may be the best chance for long term with his upside, but right now no one has a clue who will be the Browns QB starting the 2015 season. NO ONE.

 

 

Tour, my statement Hoyer walks talks and acts like he has the job right now cannot be challenged, he has said it himself countless times. it's infallible.

 

the "because he does" part is also supported by the consensus of reports and interviews. the only anamoly is Shanahan's comment about "no one currently being ahead" which requires proper context and should be taken with a grain of salt. he has an obligation to not only motivate his players but also a financial responsibility to the franchise regarding the handling of Manziel's fans. all accounts coming into this camp said Hoyer was still clearly ahead. nothing since has changed that.

[JAFBF]

that certainly is the logical view.. I assume if the front office had as much faith in Brian Hoyer as the ousted administration they might have gone with a lower round pick for a second quarterback.

if for some reason Brian Hoyer goes 16 and 0 then great. if he does not I will be cheering for Johnny to live up to the hype. And as always the next guy to beat the Steelers is my boy.

WSS

 

I think the FO may have also been looking at the fifth year option that's available for 1st round picks.

 

Seeing as QB's are one of the most expensive positions, this might be a good move if the QB is even just decent (still a lot money).