JF has 200 more starts for the browns....

[Mark O]

I think it was all the JFF nut swingers who raised the expectations so high. So now after we've seen a team game plan against him and what that result looked like, we should lower them? We benched a QB with an above .500 record as a starter to IMPROVE things. We were told over and over all we needed was the brilliance of our savior who art in football heaven to rescue us from evil, evil Brian Hoyer. We were told he has been working hard and preparing for 13 weeks for his chance to enlighten all us doubters. Nope, no lowering of expectations here. Sorry. This is what all the JFF lovers wanted. You got it. This team can't exist without a QB controversy. So good luck with the lowering of expectations campaign.

Pretty much sums it up. No chance the expectations are going to be lowered except that a lot of us aren't entirely convinced the guy has what it takes to be an NFL QB so from that standpoint, my expectations going into this Sunday are pretty fucking low. I just hope he can get into 3 digits in passing yards and maybe, oh I don't know...if it's not asking too much of our first round Heisman winning QB, lead the team to some points. I hear that scoring points is pretty important for an NFL team and if you can score a lot of them, the team has a better chance of winning.

[Tour2ma]

 

Big turn in sentiments in two-hours... I did drink alot of vodka during the game, but after rewatching it, i thought it wasnt as bad. Ill probably watch it another 3 or 4 times this week. Ive already rewatched the Cowboys game 3 times, lol. I have no life!

 

So his footwork deteriorated in the two-weeks since the Bills game? I'll have to watch for that because it was perfect then... excepting the two pressures... which is understandable. The play calls always had him moving his feet. The pressure up the middle i think caused him to throw off his back foot once or twice. Might be why Hoyer regressed on his footwork. #77 needs a pink slip, btw. Browns need better lineman and better WRs. Not sold on the tiny WRs. I dont see them getting open very often.

 

What was your impression of JM's read-option reads? On the mark? Signs of rust? Hard to know unless you know what the purpose of the play is. The read option doesnt work if the defense plays it well. Bengals were ready. They were all over it.

 

What percentage of JM's 18 pass attempts would you say came out in the rhythm of the play, i.e., on time? Again, it depends on what the play is and who the first read is. On the INT that was negated by a penalty, i thought the pass was on time. A little high, but i think Manziel is used to taller WRs. The other INTs he were obviously late. Its a timing thing, just a lack of reps and experience in the NFL. He is a see-it throw it guy. Romo was the same way (sorry just my experience and knowledge of a similar player). Romo didnt know how to anticipate guys getting open. He learned how to do it. Its possible to learn.

Cool... looking forward to comparing notes.

 

And thanks...

 

[Tour2ma]

We benched a QB with an above .500 record as a starter to IMPROVE things.

Agree... the Zealots certainly over hyped their guy.

 

But the guy we benched was not the one that at one point had a .700+ winning percentage. Something broke or at least seriously wore down... in addition to the loss of Mack.

 

I just hope he can get into 3 digits in passing yards and maybe... lead the team to some points.

First, will The Tavern be serving Tacos this Sunday?

 

Second, I just want signs of QB competency. A well-timed pass here. Signs of a finding a secondary receiver there. Pocket awareness as in when not to leave it. In other words more than I could have seen on nearly any Fall Saturday the past couple years with the only difference being it was working.

 

Not sure where the team will be a whole, so I won't put a great deal of Stockton... I mean, stock in the scoreboard.

[Zombo]

Name me one player that played well Sunday Zombo. The punter?

 

The team as a whole, collectively played like Absolute dong.

 

Johnny had no chance.

 

Was he bad? Yes. Did he play like a rook? Yes.

 

Did the team elevate their play around Johnny to increase his chances at success? No

 

"Brady had no chance ... Colt had no chance .. Charlie had no chance ..."

 

And they all went on to such stellar careers once they got away from our terrible rosters.

 

I'm sure there are 31 teams wishing they could start Johnny Manziel this week, because if all the rest of your players play well, he's spectacular. I assume.

 

This is the same team that was one dropped/misplayed pass from beating the Colts, same team that was in playoff contention after 13 games with a winning record ... we changed the leader, they play like dogshit ... so we blame the dogshit and not the leader?

 

So the team was supposed to elevate their play around Johnny to increase his chances for success?

 

That's really what you said?

 

I've been watching football wrong all these years. I swear when we had QBs that were difference makers (Kosar, Sipe), they elevated the players around them.

 

This was not a "we're out of the playoffs so let's get the rook some playing time" game. it was "this team needs a spark and this is the guy to do it" game.

 

Of course, NOW it is "we're out of the playoffs (almost) so let's get the rook some playing time."

 

If he wants to spend it floating passes into the middle of the field he'll be able to get out of miserable Cleveland and their terrible team in no time at all.

 

Zombo

[tml1138]

"Johnny must struggle in order to mature"

 

Well, dude should be the equivalent of Father Time after yesterday

 

Lol!

 

 

 

 

So...sometimes it's tough being in here with all the knee-jerk responses after a game. The week in waiting for the next game really drags out. Ugh. I really hope JM's first game was a freak anomaly. Going to be a looong off-season if he repeats the same in the last two games.

[Manzier]

 

The week in waiting for the next game really drags out. Ugh. I really hope JM's first game was a freak anomaly.

Last week was the longest week ever, just waiting to see JM to play.

 

Not sure if he's a freak or it was an anomaly. But Im POSITIVELY not as excited this week. Not even close.

 

I hope too. It's the only option.

[Manzier]

Some questions for you.

 

Do you take it up the ass from some man named taco?

For some reason this makes me laugh and laugh and laugh. +1

[berniedenslow]

Manziel will get at minimum 12 starts to prove himself.

 

Fran Tarkenton played 12 fuckin' YEARS before he went to a Super Bowl - and Charlie Manziel gets 12 games? Nice patience!

[TypicalBrowns]

Zombo I feel like you didnt want to answer my question.

No one else played good. Run D got owned all game.

Johnny made some good throws that were fucking dropped.

Hell he threw 2 passes in the 1st qtr cuz bengals had the ball the entire time.

No run game either for Cleveland. None.

So your saying Johnny still shouldve lit it up with recievers and running backs being non existent? As a rookie?

Maybe you do get delusional sometimes, I think all the losing since 98 has taken a toll on your brain.

Its so goddamn easy to point fingers at the QB, did you not watch the game? Our defense was putrid.

The entire team looked like shit, THAT is what is most dissapointing. A playoff game, playoff atmosphere, and the ENTIRE TEAM came out flat.

THAT is what I am more concerned about, not our rookie qb coming from an air raid O and is 22 stuggling in his NFL debut.


Also, the coaches,players and Joe Thomas, all said that they would have to "elevate our play around Johnny" to win. This did not happen

[bbedward]

 

Probably one of the smartest QB's I can remember in some time. A man that had it between the ears made up for his lack of athletic ability and awkward delivery.

He definitely had it between the ears, he was a commentator worth listening to for sure.

[MasterDog]

What da fock are you guys talking about? You idiots need to stop with "the team needs to play better to elevate our QB" bullchit.

 

The whole point of the QB switch is so the new QB's play can elevate the rest of the team and NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

[bbedward]

Good plan asshat...get the excuses out of the way before he even plays his next game.

 

It's a big bad tough NFL defense and you can't expect Johnny to succeed against that. That's basically the excuse I heard from him.

[jcam222]

 

Fran Tarkenton played 12 fuckin' YEARS before he went to a Super Bowl - and Charlie Manziel gets 12 games? Nice patience!

For your sake I hope your complete stupidity is chemically induced and correctable

[Zombo]

Zombo I feel like you didnt want to answer my question.

 

No one else played good. Run D got owned all game.

 

Johnny made some good throws that were fucking dropped.

 

Hell he threw 2 passes in the 1st qtr cuz bengals had the ball the entire time.

 

No run game either for Cleveland. None.

 

So your saying Johnny still shouldve lit it up with recievers and running backs being non existent? As a rookie?

 

Maybe you do get delusional sometimes, I think all the losing since 98 has taken a toll on your brain.

 

Its so goddamn easy to point fingers at the QB, did you not watch the game? Our defense was putrid.

 

The entire team looked like shit, THAT is what is most dissapointing. A playoff game, playoff atmosphere, and the ENTIRE TEAM came out flat.

 

THAT is what I am more concerned about, not our rookie qb coming from an air raid O and is 22 stuggling in his NFL debut.

 

 

Also, the coaches,players and Joe Thomas, all said that they would have to "elevate our play around Johnny" to win. This did not happen

 

 

 

 

You're getting yourself all worked up because I am not happy with the QB's performance, was there some sort of positive that came out of the game that I missed?

 

Your QB is on your on-field leader and sets the tone.

 

So your defense has you down 7-0 before you ever get that ball ... that happens to QBs all the time. And guess what, it doesn't matter when you score zero points.

 

I have been watching football a long time, and I have yet to see a team win a football game by scoring zero points. I've seen teams come back from 0-7,0-10, 0-17 ... hell I saw the Browns come back from 28-3 earlier this year, on the road. But I am yet to see a team win by scoring zero, and that's what our offense did with Manziel as its leader.

 

I'm mad ... because he sucked. It was a playoff game ... and he did nothing.

 

The other 45-50 guys that had roles in the defeat on Sunday, I pretty much knew what they are capable of and not capable of ... the thing we changed ... was the quarterback.

 

You see, I am as about "pure of heart" a Browns fan that you will ever find. I don't root for one player over another. I don't want anybody to perform badly on Sundays. I don't have an agenda. I don't want to be "right'.

 

I ... want ... the Browns ... to win.

 

I want the Browns to win.

 

So when the whole Quinn/Anderson thing was going on, some saw me as a "Quinn hater" or a "DA manlover". No. I wanted the Browns to win. When Anderson started, I felt like we had a "puncher's chance" 50/50 even. Half the time he was mind-numbingly bad, and made awful mistakes, but half the time ... we won. The other guy just didn't give my team as good a chance to win. So I didn't think he should be handed the job because he "deserved it". From 07-09 We were 16-15 when Anderson started and 3-9 when Quinn started. I had nothing against Quinn. He didn't make my team better.

 

So let's move ahead to present day. Over the past two years, my team is 10-6 when Brian Hoyer starts, and it is 1-13 when other people start. So I have been told all year that Hoyer is mediocre, and that the team will be even better if we replace him with the first round pick. I was OK with that. I really was. I agreed that Hoyer hadn't played well enough for long enough of a stretch that the change was warranted.

 

So we switched QBs and the replacement was awful. Was unprepared. Made horrible decisions. Did not display a skillset that is synonymous with NFL success. I felt helpless as he QB'd by my team's offense. We didn't score a point. He didn't make my team better.

 

I honestly don't care that Hoyer is from Cleveland. And I honestly don't care about any of the off-the-field stuff with Johnny. I don't care who won awards, who was drafted when, who has hair, who is bald, who played in what system, who is young and who is old ... Make my team better.

 

I'm the first to admit, that Hoyer is not a great NFL QB. But if you are going to replace Hoyer ... ya gotta be better than Hoyer.

 

With Hoyer, this team scores 23 points per game and wins more than it loses. Against the Bungles, Hoyer starting, we score 24 and win. With Manziel starting we score 0 and lose.

 

So DON'T START THE FUCKING EXCUSE-MAKING-MACHINE WITH MANZIEL.

 

We can make the playoffs with THIS defense. We can make the playoffs with THIS offensive line. We can make the playoffs with THESE receivers. We need better quarterbacking. We needed better than Hoyer, and we got worse.

 

I am not going to make excuses for Manziel. It ain't happening. But if you want me to say nice things about him ... that will happen.

 

When he wins.

 

Zombo

[mohican]

Are there any QBs in the draft that we really like?

[Mudfly]

Perfectly stated Zombo....

 

and add that no matter how good something might taste, it's NEVER good when it's getting shoved down your throat....repeatedly....

 

and when you finally give in only to find out that it tastes like shit, then you gotta gag at least a little......it's normal

[mohican]

If Manzeil is to get 200 more starts for the Browns he needs to learn to return punts, kick field goals and spot duty at receiver or safety. I don't see him as a viable NFL Quarterback.

[mohican]

Perfectly stated Zombo....

 

and add that no matter how good something might taste, it's NEVER good when it's getting shoved down your throat....repeatedly....

 

and when you finally give in only to find out that it tastes like shit, then you gotta gag at least a little......it's normal

Yes. Zombo has this correct. Give Manziel two more games. If he shows something and we win, fine. If not, time to find a Quarterback.

[larryfine]

You know who would also be a pretty smart qb...relative to his arm and athletic ability? Stephen hawking. And I don't want him leading our team either.

That was funny, LOL

[Ibleedbrown]

Bernie Kosar....lmfao...he's a has been wannabe-a never was.

Alright fucktard. If you're trying to ruffle feathers, kudos to you.

 

Doesn't he still own the record for consecutive passes without an INT?

 

I stopped reading after this comment.

 

Go shove a combine up your ass salad tosser. You seriously need to relieve the pressure.

[Opal312]

Numerous quarterbacks, including Troy Aikman, were shut out their first game. Who throws in the towel after one game? If that were the case they should fire West and Crowell every time they fumble.

[miktoxic]

Numerous quarterbacks, including Troy Aikman, were shut out their first game. Who throws in the towel after one game? If that were the case they should fire West and Crowell every time they fumble.

 

we'll see how he compares to those other QBs when every nfl show on tv compares their 'first 3 starts'.

 

how much he's at the bottom of the list?

 

manziel looked like the 'make a wish' kid on family guy.

[Mark O]

Numerous quarterbacks, including Troy Aikman, were shut out their first game. Who throws in the towel after one game? If that were the case they should fire West and Crowell every time they fumble.

Jesus...again with the fucking Troy Aikman comparison. Aikman wasn't a midget who came from a stupid college system. I remember Aikmans first start...and you know what he did in that game, despite struggling the entire game, he also made some throws and plays that made you think, this dude is going to be good someday.

 

Point to one play that Manziel made on Sunday that made you go wow...he's going to be a player in this league.

[Zombo]

Jesus...again with the fucking Troy Aikman comparison. Aikman wasn't a midget who came from a stupid college system. I remember Aikmans first start...and you know what he did in that game, despite struggling the entire game, he also made some throws and plays that made you think, this dude is going to be good someday.Point to one play that Manziel made on Sunday that made you go wow...he's going to be a player in this league.

Lol. Troy Aikman.

 

6'4, rocket arm, right out of franchise QB central casting.

 

We have an elf that falls down if you grab a string on his jersey.

 

Z

[Tacosman]

 

JF will almost certainly get a lot better his first full offseason as the starter. Going through preseason workouts, minicamp sessions, etc is going to help him a lot going into 2015

[Mark O]

JF will almost certainly get a lot better his first full offseason as the starter. Going through preseason workouts, minicamp sessions, etc is going to help him a lot going into 2015

What the fuck was he doing during preseason workouts, minicamp sessions, etc when it was an open competition for the starting QB job?

 

Try again Chachi...

[Tacosman]

What the fuck was he doing during preseason workouts, minicamp sessions, etc when it was an open competition for the starting QB job?Try again Chachi...

Going throug all this stuff as a young player after you've had a taste of in game experience to build on is going to be a much more productive experience.

[Mark O]

Going throug all this stuff as a young player after you've had a taste of in game experience to build on is going to be a much more productive experience.

Didn't our Heisman Trophy winning QB have any in game experience in college? Maybe he was too busy fucking off during training camp instead of working at his job?

 

Funny how other young QB's step right in and look the part of NFL QB. Our midget QB gets 14 regular season weeks to prepare for his opportunity and graces us with 80 fucking yards passing.

[Tacosman]

 

I haven't been over in the Minnesota, Jville, oakland forums, but do they trash their rookie starters after a very bad performance? Or do they understand it's a slow process and it's going to take lots of time? Patience people....

[Mark O]

I haven't been over in the Minnesota, Jville, oakland forums, but do they trash their rookie starters after a very bad performance? Or do they understand it's a slow process and it's going to take lots of time? Patience people....

I'm out of patience. I expect our first round draft choice QB to at least be able to hit 3 digits in passing yards in a game and I know this is asking a lot...but maybe even score some fucking points.

 

He looked like a lost little kid on the field which says to me two things. One he doesn't belong in the NFL or two...he has spent the better part of 5 months since he was drafted fucking around and not preparing for his job. Either way, I have ZERO patience for that. And you Johnny fanboy faggots who have been here all season telling us how much better the team would be if he was the starter certainly haven't helped his case with the fan base any.