OldBrownsFan Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm struggling to find a response in there that isn't basically "fuck 'em, they should just know" - care to summarise a different angle? I will help you out: "What happens to those who never heard the gospel. Romans teaches that God will judge people on what they know and are capable of knowing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I posted a link to a site with 50 signs we are living in the end times. if you can't see it pray about it. Still asking for your prediction, please and thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 A. I am not religious at all, don't go to church. Spiritual, yes. Christian, yes. B. Tiam - I was just challenging your questions, not lumping you into anything. C. Knowledge is wonderful. We advance as a society in many ways with more tech. D. Sometimes I think tech is going to go way too far, and be misused. E. I have never dissed atheists, agnostics, etc. for their not believing. On the flip side, we keep getting ridicule about the Bible, and Christians, and morality. F. You don't have to be a Christian, or believer in any religion at all, to be moral. I would have the same morality if I were not a Christian. However - it isn't wisdom, nor intelligence, nor knowledgeable ? nor educated, when you ridicule that which isn't learned in a university. E. Science is awesome. Just medical advances alone, are incredible. But the point is, relying on only science to understand life - I just don't see it, that's all. F. When I was a kid, I nearly died in a spring in the dead of winter. Point - a few folks ridiculed that. How is it that not believing invites ridicule to someone like me who does believe that a miracle happened? G. When people who cherish life so much they despise the death penalty... but support abortion across the board.. where in the morality in that? Leave the Bible out of it - what moral compass allows someone to approve of murdering innocent unborn and born children, and disapprove of murdering the horrifically guilty? Where is the science in that? I see rationalization, and self-interest. There is no principle in that. H. As old as the Bible is, it is still referring to events that happened back then, and happen now. It's a bit like the monomyth. From the ancient times, to now, you can see very definate trends in literature, even in life. How can science explain love? The craving of adventure? The chosen resoluteness to fight for freedom? I. I see spiritualphobes where certain lovers of science are. Why be afraid of seeing life, and our universe, as more than just a fluke of science? There are a lot of tough questions about religion, in my case, Christianity and the Bible. There are also a lot of tough questions in science. There just aren't answers to every question. J. I have to go back to work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 That's the thing that bugs me about atheists. Instead of saying its your right to believe what you want, they constantly berate you, berate the bible, etc. I have never seen anyone on here make fun of the unbelievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I don't get how people think that becoming more educated, or less religious, means being more immoral in some way. the more educated you become, the more their god loses power over you. That simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 That's the thing that bugs me about atheists. Instead of saying its your right to believe what you want, they constantly berate you, berate the bible, etc. I have never seen anyone on here make fun of the unbelievers. I'm not an atheist but to be fair to them, they seem to be more incensed when their constantly exposed to other people's religions in a public square. I haven't heard one atheist in my life say what you do with yourself should be regulated. They're just saying keep your god away from public governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 One needs spirituality to be moral, otherwise it's the law of the jungle. It is not immoral for a wolf to eat a rabbit. It is not immoral for the male wolf to fuck every female wolf in the pack. It is not immoral for the larger wolf eat more than the smaller wolves. etc etc etc It just pisses the atheists off if he makes up his own set of spiritual morals and someone calls it religion. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 One needs spirituality to be moral, otherwise it's the law of the jungle. It is not immoral for a wolf to eat a rabbit. It is not immoral for the male wolf to fuck every female wolf in the pack. It is not immoral for the larger wolf eat more than the smaller wolves. etc etc etc It just pisses the atheists off if he makes up his own set of spiritual morals and someone calls it religion. WSS Spirituality can have zero to do with morals and basic social graces. I don't have to be spiritual to not want to fuck over my neighbor. If I need a higher power to make me not do those things then I am a scumbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Still asking for your prediction, please and thank you. I don't think you ever got over your former pastor being wrong when he said thought it would happen within 20 years back in 1993. BTW - why do you seem so resentful about that? He got it wrong but he is not infallible. Nobody knows these things, If Jesus said only the Father knew I can tell you I don't know more than Jesus. If you read the article you can see the signs that the time is near. That is what we were to look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 When you're 10 summer vacation lasts forever. When you're 60 it lasts the blink of an eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 When you're 10 summer vacation lasts forever. When you're 60 it lasts the blink of an eye. I heard a good theory on why time seems to go faster as you get older which made sense. When you are 6 years old, one year is one sixth of your entire life so a year seems like a long time. When you are 60 years old one year is now one sixtieth of your life and it is that proportion ratio which makes it seem like time goes faster as you get older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Spirituality can have zero to do with morals and basic social graces. I don't have to be spiritual to not want to fuck over my neighbor. If I need a higher power to make me not do those things then I am a scumbag.I didn't say your decision had anything to do with you believing in a higher power. Spirituality as I see it in this case is you making a determination of good and evil for yourself. It is made up, no less than you consider any religious book, just by you. There's no scientific basis whatsoever. Like I said if the wolf wouldn't do it but you would you're creating a false reality. You are free to do what you like.WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 That's the thing that bugs me about atheists. Instead of saying its your right to believe what you want, they constantly berate you, berate the bible, etc. I have never seen anyone on here make fun of the unbelievers. Perhaps not on here, but there is plenty of venom spewed back and forth between the two groups all across this great country. Sadly, both groups seemed to have missed quite possibly the biggest principle both science and religion bestows upon us - Humility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I don't think you ever got over your former pastor being wrong when he said thought it would happen within 20 years back in 1993. BTW - why do you seem so resentful about that? He got it wrong but he is not infallible. Nobody knows these things, If Jesus said only the Father knew I can tell you I don't know more than Jesus. If you read the article you can see the signs that the time is near. That is what we were to look for. But are these not the same signs that humanity has seen periodically throughout history just being recycled? Sure feels that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 But are these not the same signs that humanity has seen periodically throughout history just being recycled? Sure feels that way. Of the 50 listed here there are a number of them that are more recent and not seen throughout history such as the return of Israel, new technology and nuclear weapons. http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_signs11.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 "new" technology? Nuclear weapons? Kinda stretching "recent" times, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted May 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 "new" technology? Nuclear weapons? Kinda stretching "recent" times, right? Things that have taken place in the last 100 years ..that is recent to me in a 2000 year span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I'll give you nuclear weapons then, but "new" technology is all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htownbrown Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Of the 50 listed here there are a number of them that are more recent and not seen throughou. history such as the return of Israel, new technology and nuclear weapons. http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_signs11.php Why are you so proud of that list? The majority of those "issues" have either been around since recorded history or out of the control of any one person. In fact, the author has himself contributed to his homemade list of no nos in almost every way he could, depending on how you interpret scripture. He's educated, travels, preaches worldwide, uses the satellites, etc. And then there's the only thing I need to know.........the author is a member of a rapture cult according to many. What is he going to say? Doom and gloom is his livelihood. Being that you're asking nonbelievers to read this list, I take it you believe they are the major players driving everyone toward the end? That would be arrogant. Or is it your just warning people to join while they still can, like you've stumbled across something they haven't been aware of already? That would be equally arrogant. I think by receiving any form of resistance to your faith you feel offended and victimized, so you are obligated to project your insecurities and faith on those that oppose you. I may be guilty of contributing more to that list than you, who knows, but your right there with me 'Ol Yea of Pure Faith'. "As he said to me, 'See, I assign to you cow's dung instead of human dung, on which you may prepare your bread'" Ezekiel 4:15 Would this guy think you belong in 'his' heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Another Atheist without a clue..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Another Atheist without a clue..... Yeah, we should be clued in by accepting wild fairy tales at face value and never questioning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted May 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Why are you so proud of that list? The majority of those "issues" have either been around since recorded history or out of the control of any one person. Proud of the list? You are a mind reader? Wrong...that list is what it is.....the list clearly shows things that have only happened in the last 100 years In fact, the author has himself contributed to his homemade list of no nos in almost every way he could, depending on how you interpret scripture. He's educated, travels, preaches worldwide, uses the satellites, etc. Wow...He is a bad man. I didn't read though where he said the technology was bad just that it is how the prophecies will come true And then there's the only thing I need to know.........the author is a member of a rapture cult according to many. What is he going to say? Doom and gloom is his livelihood. There are millions of Christians who believe in the rapture...that is one large cult! Being that you're asking nonbelievers to read this list, I take it you believe they are the major players driving everyone toward the end? That would be arrogant. Or is it your just warning people to join while they still can, like you've stumbled across something they haven't been aware of already? That would be equally arrogant. I thought this was a message board to express opinions. You don't have any problem expressing yours. I think by receiving any form of resistance to your faith you feel offended and victimized, so you are obligated to project your insecurities and faith on those that oppose you. I may be guilty of contributing more to that list than you, who knows, but your right there with me 'Ol Yea of Pure Faith'. Mind reading again...you and people like Obama are great at making straw man and knocking them down. "As he said to me, 'See, I assign to you cow's dung instead of human dung, on which you may prepare your bread'" Ezekiel 4:15 If you want to point out isolated scriptures let's put them into context. Sound fair? Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 4:9-17 The bread which was Ezekiel's support, was to be made of coarse grain and pulse mixed together, seldom used except in times of urgent scarcity, and of this he was only to take a small quantity. Thus was figured the extremity to which the Jews were to be reduced during the siege and captivity. Ezekiel does not plead, Lord, from my youth I have been brought up delicately, and never used to any thing like this; but that he had been brought up conscientiously, and never had eaten any thing forbidden by the law. It will be comfortable when we are brought to suffer hardships, if our hearts can witness that we have always been careful to keep even from the appearance of evil. See what woful work sin makes, and acknowledge the righteousness of God herein. Their plenty having been abused to luxury and excess, they were justly punished by famine. When men serve not God with cheerfulness in the abundance of all things, God will make them serve their enemies in the want of all things. Would this guy think you belong in 'his' heaven? His heaven?...I will give you a clue...everybody needs at least one...there are three heavens in the bible. Paul said he was caught up to the third heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 It's typical atheist gets angry, asks pointed questions to mock, then gets answers, then rejects answers and bitches about being talked to about religion. All started because they find out that other folks have Christian beliefs. Weird - hard to explain why this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 It's typical atheist gets angry, asks pointed questions to mock, then gets answers, then rejects answers and bitches about being talked to about religion. All started because they find out that other folks have Christian beliefs. Weird - hard to explain why this happens. Cal, if religious folks didn't want to impose their beliefs through legislation that effects everyone, no one would give a shit about what religion (or no religion) at all that people choose to follow. If Islam all of a sudden caught on in the U.S., I imagine most of the Christian folks here would be yelling about how the separation between church and state should be upheld. Why? Because you don't adhere to their beliefs. You can worship Tom and Jerry for all I care. Just don't make me have to live under laws geared towards the belief that your lord and savior Tom the Cat dislikes wearing hats on Tuesdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 "God did it" is not an answer. It is a cop out. Believing in the ideas presented in the Bible is one thing. Taking it literally is insane. What is your belief on these topics? Evolution The age of the Earth Noah's Flood How can one just blindly accept the words in a book over actual evidence. I don't understand how someone's brain could be wired that way. It is even worse if you wonder how many of these people exist in our country and how many vote and affect public policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted May 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 "God did it" is not an answer. It is a cop out. Believing in the ideas presented in the Bible is one thing. Taking it literally is insane. What is your belief on these topics? Evolution The age of the Earth Noah's Flood How can one just blindly accept the words in a book over actual evidence. I don't understand how someone's brain could be wired that way. It is even worse if you wonder how many of these people exist in our country and how many vote and affect public policy. How about you answer me how this universe was created out of nothing if this is proven science. If you tell me scientists have found a "god particle" then I would like to know where that came from? At the basis of your belief is out of nothing came this great universe. Out of my belief there is a spiritual realm greater than the physical realm because out of the spiritual realm (God) came the physical. That belief is backed up by my "old book". Hebrews 11:3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Cal, if religious folks didn't want to impose their beliefs through legislation that effects everyone, no one would give a shit about what religion (or no religion) at all that people choose to follow. If Islam all of a sudden caught on in the U.S., I imagine most of the Christian folks here would be yelling about how the separation between church and state should be upheld. Why? Because you don't adhere to their beliefs. You can worship Tom and Jerry for all I care. Just don't make me have to live under laws geared towards the belief that your lord and savior Tom the Cat dislikes wearing hats on Tuesdays. Logic ******************************************************** I understand. What I don't get, is why require Christians in gov to vote for laws they refuse to vote for? A Christian had BETTER vote for partial birth abortion, or else, because they aren't allowed "to impose their beliefs on non-Christians" ??? Now, the blue sunday law, where businesses had to close, etc, on Sundays, that was a gigantic crock. Leave me the freakin alone, it's a free country. The same goes for hunting on Sundays. That was also a huge crock of crap. But pba? It isn't like you are being required to go to church. There is a line that can't be crossed, but there are two open areas on either side of the line. There is a separation of church and state, not a separation of individual and spiritual beliefs. And demanding that a religious congressperson vote in contradiction of their beliefs is pretty bogus. Just don't vote for those religious people. Having said that, let common sense prevail but individual rights WILL NOT be violated. And pertaining to real marriage, between a man and a woman, perversion is not a right, can't marry pigs or bridges, stfu. We used to have discussions about civil unions. I have no problem with civil unions, where gay people have rights like married people, whatever. but it was always about the culture war against the right, so marriage had to be attacked as an institution. That's stompin over the fightin line for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Having said that, let common sense prevail but individual rights WILL NOT be violated. And pertaining to real marriage, between a man and a woman, perversion is not a right, can't marry pigs or bridges, stfu. We used to have discussions about civil unions. I have no problem with civil unions, where gay people have rights like married people, whatever. but it was always about the culture war against the right, so marriage had to be attacked as an institution. That's stompin over the fightin line for me. A bridge and a pig cannot sign a legal agreement to be married so that is a non-point. I have always said that making it all civil unions, straight and gay, as far as the government is concerned would be fine by me. The government shouldn't be part of a religious ceremony. Leave that up to the individuals to decide if they want to be married in a church under the eyes of whatever God they believe in. The government's only concerns are taxation and determining who has medical right of attorney, next of kin, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 How about you answer me how this universe was created out of nothing if this is proven science. If you tell me scientists have found a "god particle" then I would like to know where that came from? At the basis of your belief is out of nothing came this great universe. Out of my belief there is a spiritual realm greater than the physical realm because out of the spiritual realm (God) came the physical. That belief is backed up by my "old book". Hebrews 11:3 Atheists would say they don't know yet and not rely on immediately jumping to filling that void with fairy tales. I can live without knowing exactly how or why something exists or functions. Give science enough time. At one point, science fiction writers thought that going to the Moon and to Mars was crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Having said that, let common sense prevail but individual rights WILL NOT be violated. And pertaining to real marriage, between a man and a woman, perversion is not a right, can't marry pigs or bridges, stfu. Have you ever so quickly made a very good point, then shit all over it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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