LogicIsForSquares Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 According to my friends who know the Bible much much much much much better than I could possibly ever hope to no, not really. Christianity begins with the New Covenant. I'm not aware of any new covenant laid forth by the new and peaceful Mohammad. WSS Yup. I am not religious at all but in no way does Christianity compare to Islam. Mohammad was a desert bandit and the Quran was all written within his life time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I like when my wife brings up stuff from five years ago that doesn't remotely apply to what is going on today. Here's how it went: You can use both bible and Quran to justify whatever depending on your bent But Jesus said don't do bad things But people still did bad things until very recently But that's in the past! I responded to your points as you made them and I'm the one bringing up history apparently. Point is, just because Jesus apparently (and I'm not convinced) said to forget the old testament, doesn't mean people just live by the new, or don't do things in the name of the old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Nowhere in the old or New Testament does it condone killing others for the advancement of Christianity. There are assholes who like to take certain passages from a story about God telling his people how to deal with their enemies at that particular time which just happened to be 3000 years ago and claim that the bible condones violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I like when my wife brings up stuff from five years ago that doesn't remotely apply to what is going on today. Those that do not study History are doomed to repeat it. According to my friends who know the Bible much much much much much better than I could possibly ever hope to no, not really. Christianity begins with the New Covenant. I'm not aware of any new covenant laid forth by the new and peaceful Mohammad. WSS Well that's good news, I guess creationists are wrong since that is part of the Old Testament, also those commandments are part of the Old..... or do you get to pick and choose what you need to follow My point is extremist(and many people through the ages), use(d) religion to justify their actions, it does not make every Muslim evil, if it did there would be about a Billion terrorists out there instead of maybe a million. Most areas that are hot bed for extremist have many reasons to hate the West(colonialism, supporting oppressive gov'ts, and creating Israel) making it easy to use religion as a focal\gathering point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Nowhere in the old or New Testament does it condone killing others for the advancement of Christianity. There are assholes who like to take certain passages from a story about God telling his people how to deal with their enemies at that particular time which just happened to be 3000 years ago and claim that the bible condones violence. Nowhere? 2 Old Testaments The Lord is a man of war. Exodus 15:3 The LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation. Exodus 17:16, Deuteronomy 25:19 2 New Testaments He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms. Psalm 18:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Nowhere in the old or New Testament does it condone killing others for the advancement of Christianity. There are assholes who like to take certain passages from a story about God telling his people how to deal with their enemies at that particular time which just happened to be 3000 years ago and claim that the bible condones violence. That's rather similar to what Islamic extremists do with their holy book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Like I said.. Cherry-picked verses that ignore the whole story and context... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Like I said.. Cherry-picked verses that ignore the whole story and context... Not going to post whole chapters of the bible to a forum.... http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/15.html#3 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/17.html#16 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ps/18.html#34 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/10.html#34 feel free to read the whole chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I don't think that dusting a bunch of uninvolved people is a good idea but to say this isn't an Islam problem is ridiculous. The Western world makes it very easy to assimilate. Muslims who leave third world dumps tend to collect into neighborhoods where they do not have to assimilate. They can live by the same morals and social norms of the dumps they left. Muslims should be making efforts to adapt to their surroundings. The responsibility doesn't fall on the people who welcomed them. Except this has been occurring ever since America was founded. Similar immigrants grouped together. Cleveland is a great example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 As for the idea that "moderate Muslims never denounce this shit" - well that so clearly off base it's ridiculous. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Kasich just said he doesn't want them in Ohio, along with the governors of a bunch of other US states. Personally, I don't want them here. I feel for the refugees, as what they're going through is tragic, but the fact that Daesh has been bragging about sending agents to the West with the refugees means they aren't worth the risk. A government's first duty is to its people, and Europe opening up its borders to take on 4 million refugees in such a short amount of time is a horrible foreign and national security policy. As for moderate Muslims not denouncing this - Muslims living in western countries do tend to have some pretty fucked up beliefs that lead to this kind of shit, and it wouldn't surprise me if many of these attackers are found to be born or raised in Europe. After the Charlie Hebdo incident, 1 in 4 British Muslims sympathized with the attackers, and 1 in 10 actually said that Charlie Hebdo deserved to be attacked. According to a massive Pew Forum study, 38% of Iraqis believe Sharia law should apply to non-Muslims. While this study did not include data on Syria, I have to imagine it was similar. We should not be allowing these people into our country en masse just because of their awful living conditions. I don't care if it's inconsiderate, harsh, or even racist to say any of this, but let's look out for us before worrying about them. Islam has some serious issues to work out - that religion's influence in the Middle East has put them centuries behind the rest of the world when it comes to human rights. Just take a look at how well Sweden is doing with all the people they're letting in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 The gulf countries can help the refugees. We can help setup refugee camps there. They don't need to come here and they shouldn't. We can setup camps in the parts of Iraq we control, etc. If they can make it all the way here they can make it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 So what's up with Canada? It seems like they have a lot of space and are continually recruiting, am I mistaken or have they changed in the last decade or so? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Other minority groups are not associated with suicide bombings. They may cluster together but they do not actively speak out about the country to which they immigrated.This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Not going to post whole chapters of the bible to a forum.... http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/15.html#3 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/17.html#16 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ps/18.html#34 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/10.html#34 feel free to read the whole chapters. No thanks. I have a real bible I can read. The difference you are ignoring is that you are a Christophobe who thinks they have found verses in the bible that justifies violence. You think you have some kind of "gotcha" towards Christians denouncing Islamic violence. Christians aren't the ones searching the good book, to condone violence, it's you, the Islam apologist sympathizer doing the searching. Muslims in the other hand continually point to the Quran to justify suicide bombings (suicide forbidden in Christianity), murder (again, forbidden in Christianity), rape (forbidden), pedophilia (forbidden), and a complete lack of honor (Christianity is honorable). Aside from being wrong, you are also trying to condemn Christians for the violent acts of Muslims because you think you found something in the Old Testament where God says it's ok. Do you see how stupid that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 42% of Muslims in France aged 18-29 feel that suicide bombings are justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I don't think you're following his point very well. Pro Tip: I think you used "condemn" wrong there. Go ahead and edit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Too bad your dad didn't know how to use a condom. Aside from that, there is no valid point to be made. Christians aren't the ones committing terrorism. Muslims are. And they use the Quran to justify it. That has nothing to do with Christians or the Old Testament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 It's a childish, emotional tit-for-tat by liberals when they do this bounce back business. The knee jerk reaction is very offensive. One mental case abortion bomber, to them, deliberately and emotionally,... is the same as a world wide bunch of clusters of "muslim" extremist terrorists murdering all around the world, including tens of thousands of doesch members. BTW, I wonder why France waited until after the terror struck them so terribly, that they went and bombed doesch training camps and targeted the enemy. Islam lends itself to widespread misuse by extremists. Apparently, the Koran even mentions Jesus. After the fact, I see mohammed as emulating Christianity, though far more deviously, with extreme cruelty, intimidation, and force being the way it grew. Sounds like a cult to me, the more I read quotes from their book. You disagree with islam..... the extremists want you to die by their hands. It's true, and everybody knows it. No religion that forces people to become members of that religion, by threat of death, torture, etc etc etc... is a genuine religion - when people are forced to adopt a religion, but only do so because of vile, vicious, atrocious threats... they obviously don't really believe. The word "extortion" seems to apply to extremists in a religion that accrues members via threats of severe violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses_controversy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I see the point has been well and truly missed here. Good job guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I see the point has been well and truly missed here. Good job guys.What is the point then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 What is the point then? The point is that you can take quotes from basically any scripture, out of context, use them to manipulate people who don't question what they're told, and then use those people to do evil things. As much as western civilisation is not doing so any more, by and large, that doesn't mean it hasn't in the past, and the fact that jesus supposedly said to ignore the old testament just adds more emphasis to that point - if people read the whole thing, and saw the quotes in context, they would be much less likely to commit the evil acts. Yet, in the past millennium, when the bible has been pretty much the same, you had people using the bible to justify evil things. Now we have a situation where in the middle east and africa - unsurprisingly the places with the worst education - people are using their religious text of choice - mostly the quran, granted, but still the bible in some places - to justify and encourage violence and oppression against other groups. Meanwhile, in educated, rich countries like the EU/North America/ANZ/Japan/Singapore etc. people will generally question what they're being told by the man standing at the front, yelling about how whichever group of people is sent by satan to take their land/rights/whatever and must be destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I hope that's clear, let me know if it's not. TLDR: You can use whatever book you want to justify whatever you want when taken out of context, especially with stupid/uneducated people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Gotcha. Response following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I'm not trying to say "well christians did bad things too so the muslims are justified in their bad things" but that's how certain people here read it for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yeah I agree with that and I think it stems from literacy issues. In the last millennia when "CRUSADES!!!" and violent acts committed in the name of the Bible, populations were controlled because only a select few could read and they controlled the money etc. I actually believe we're seeing the start of a return to that in the west. Illiteracy not born out of lack of availability, but encouraged via substandard requirements in education. And just a general apathy of a large segment of the population. Laws continue to grow larger in size and more complex in their structure to the point that they become convoluted and messy. "Lawyer speak" is comparable to the Latin that was used for the control a millennia ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yeah I agree with that and I think it stems from literacy issues. In the last millennia when "CRUSADES!!!" and violent acts committed in the name of the Bible, populations were controlled because only a select few could read and they controlled the money etc. I actually believe we're seeing the start of a return to that in the west. Illiteracy not born out of lack of availability, but encouraged via substandard requirements in education. And just a general apathy of a large segment of the population. Laws continue to grow larger in size and more complex in their structure to the point that they become convoluted and messy. "Lawyer speak" is comparable to the Latin that was used for the control a millennia ago. I don't disagree but I'd add also another 'feature' of some societies, particularly among the already poor/uneducated, is the animosity towards those that would seek to elevate themselves out of that society. My suspicion/belief is that that stems from a deep resentment of 'the establishment' or 'the man' or whatever you want to call it, and educating yourself and becoming part of that system is 'selling out' and 'betraying' your friends/family. Certainly, you can see youtube videos of (hopefully) a very few American pastors - usually in places like Arizona, or Utah - screaming about how this group or that group is destroying America in some fashion and we must do something about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Stuart If leftists knew that the Crusades were a response to barbaric Muslim conquests then they might shut up about the Crusades. Leftist assholes also need to know that Thomas Jefferson had a Koran in his library to help him understand how these savages think, not because he was interested in diversity as so many liberal assholes are made to believe. Jefferson fought the Muslim terrorists of his day known as the Barbary pirates. If stupid leftists knew that the north African slave trade led by Muslims preceded the transatlantic slave trade by about 700yrs. then they may be convinced that slavery wasn't invented by whitey. OK back on topic. Like Obama, the Hildebeest still can't put 'radical' and 'Islamic' together or 'Islamic' and 'extremist'. Heard the audio of this yesterday. Pathetic how she evaded the question. Liberal morons like these two aren't even aware that every time they utter name of this radical extremist terrorist group ISIS, the first letter of this acronym stands for 'ISLAMIC'. That other idiot Bernie Sanders says we need to reach out to Islamic leaders to help stop terrorism...WTF??? Do they not know whats going on? If we must "reach out" then it only means they don't give a fuck. http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/hillary-radical-islam-us/2015/11/14/id/702195/ I expected her to tell Frances prez not to worry, that we'll find the person who made that video. Wonder whats up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I don't think anyone has missed the point. There are probably more than one point on which to comment. It seems the main thrust of yours is that not all Muslims are extremist murderers. That's true. But it's also true that too fucking many of them are. And that number increases in some sort of ratio to poverty and education and coming from a war torn shitholes. Another point is that this kind of shit can be expected when you invite hundreds of thousands of those type Muslims into your country. And a fair reason that most of us here don't want them. Yet another point is some of you trying to establish a moral equivalency with Christianity. As to your query about whether or not you've been clear, I answer a bit more after that statement. Still past performance...? Not quite as much. As for one of the topics about poor and less educated countries we have millions of Mexicans here yet no huge act of terrorism as yet. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I don't think anyone has missed the point. There are probably more than one point on which to comment. It seems the main thrust of yours is that not all Muslims are extremist murderers. That's true. But it's also true that too fucking many of them are. And that number increases in some sort of ratio to poverty and education and coming from a war torn shitholes. Another point is that this kind of shit can be expected when you invite hundreds of thousands of those type Muslims into your country. And a fair reason that most of us here don't want them. Yet another point is some of you trying to establish and moral equivalency with Christianity. As to your query about whether or not, I answer a bit more after that statement. Still past performance...? Not quite as much. As for one of the topics about poor and less educated countries we have millions of Mexicans here yet no huge act of terrorism as yet. WSS The point was not that not all muslims are terrorists. Did you read the bit where Legacy asked what the point was, then I explained it to him? Because that wasn't what I was getting at at all. I mean, it's true, but it's not the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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