hoorta Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Once again we get into the weeds I think Cleve's original point that should a hospital that refuses to provide legal services be allowed to be tax exempt. Personally I don't have any issue with them refusing the service but think that should forfeit their tax exempt status. OK, fair enough. But remember there's a precedent that was recently set- religious organizations don't have to pay for birth control pills or devices if they object on moral grounds. I suppose the same logic applies to surgeries a hospital has objections to. LOL, fat chance you could ever get a sex change operation at a Catholic Hospital. You can't even get invitro fertilization at one- though I don't really understand that logic. Yeah but as is evidenced, the woman has to be moments from death for the hospital to say oh ok fine we'll save you. Some of these women had conditions that mandated an immediate abortion, every moment gone by was risking her life. But hey they gave her some Tylenol.... Please- it's NOT moments from death, and from my OR experience they sure as shit wouldn't have given her just Tylenol. That's just a ridiculous assumption. It would be massive blood transfusions and IV support. If they thought the fetus was viable they would do an emergency C-section, and if not- mom's life would be paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Thanks cal. Of course you are right. It's a liberal strategy--attCk the messenger because you have no defense against the message. Grass fairy is a derogatory term for soccer players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Grass fairy is a derogatory term for soccer players.Ahh ic, nm then carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Really? what did you find objectionable about that statement? I thought it was pretty much right on the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 what did you find objectionable about that statement? I thought it was pretty much right on the money The statement that most people will abort a healthy fetus just to avoid the inconvenience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 The statement that most people will abort a healthy fetus just to avoid the inconvenience What would you assume would be the reason for the million-plus abortions every year? Just a guess. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html Maybe that will help. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 "Most people will abort a healthy fetus to avoid the inconvenience" and "Most abortions are of healthy fetuses to avoid the inconvenience" are two different statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 "Most people will abort a healthy fetus to avoid the inconvenience" and "Most abortions are of healthy fetuses to avoid the inconvenience" are two different statements. Well before I'm forced to resort to the usual rhetoric why don't you explain the difference in detail? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 1) i kind of agree with steve for once, i didnt see the diff.....but i suspect woody will clarify he ususlly does 2) sometimes its not just a minor inconvenience, its life changing and sometimes not for the better. Life aint black and white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I never said it was a minor inconvenience, it's a big inconvenience to have to put up with the little fucker for the next 18 years. But it's still a matter of convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Well before I'm forced to resort to the usual rhetoric why don't you explain the difference in detail? WSS The first statement pulls from the overall population. The second pulls from the population of people that have had abortions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 The first statement pulls from the overall population. The second pulls from the population of people that have had abortions. Woody shoots woody scores..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Woody shoots woody scores.....No not really. First of all it's assumed we are talking about people who have abortions and even if we were not since the majority of people think abortion should be legal for any reason except in the last trimester in which case it would only be legal in cases of rape incest or life of the mother. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx And this doesn't necessarily break down the reason this but it's obvious that close to 80% of Americans believe abortion should be legal therefore since almost all of the ones that are performed today are for convenience, well you get the idea. The statements aren't exactly the same but they mean basically the same thing in my opinion. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 So I guess children with downs syndrome, mental Retardation, a cleft palate, etc. should be aborted. Fuck em. Its too much trouble on my life to take care of them. Let them fucking die. I applaud for your folks for taking care of you. I might have said 'fuck it' myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 What would you assume would be the reason for the million-plus abortions every year? Just a guess. WSS Because it's nigh impossible to afford raising children anymore let alone in questionable environments. I think about the species first and foremost - religious implications second. There are certain people that should not pro-create. I'd commend them if they sterizled themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Well, you're the guy that admitted you don't care how statistics works. I'm not surprised you don't realize those two statements I posted mean two different things. They're both laying out two different hypotheses to test. No assumptions need to be made if your posts mean what you want them to mean. Finally, without looking at your Gallop data, it doesn't support your original statement. That poll is asking if it should be legal, not if you would do it. You can think a woman has a right to choose without ever wanting to choose an abortion yourself. I think weed should be legal, but I have no plans to smoke it. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Because it's nigh impossible to afford raising children anymore let alone in questionable environments. I think about the species first and foremost - religious implications second. There are certain people that should not pro-create. I'd commend them if they sterizled themselves. I guess, but that's kind of permanent. I don't begrudge anyone the right to have children if they can take care of them. But it still convenience. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Well, you're the guy that admitted you don't care how statistics works. I'm not surprised you don't realize those two statements I posted mean two different things. They're both laying out two different hypotheses to test. No assumptions need to be made if your posts mean what you want them to mean. Finally, without looking at your Gallop data, it doesn't support your original statement. That poll is asking if it should be legal, not if you would do it. You can think a woman has a right to choose without ever wanting to choose an abortion yourself. I think weed should be legal, but I have no plans to smoke it. Get it? Of course not caring about statistics came from Chris mistakenly attacking me for something. Hence the joke he didn't get which is rare for him, though not so rare for you. But that aside if you actually believe that support for abortion is not convenience based then there's no point discussing it. And I think both those statements address the issue in a very similar if not exact way. And again if you don't believe that I don't care. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Again, your original statement was not referencing how many abortions were convenience based. Words matter. What you think you wrote and what you actually wrote are two different things. You may not appreciate statistics, but you're a liberal arts major, you should appreciate the written word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Again, your original statement was not referencing how many abortions were convenience based. Words matter. What you think you wrote and what you actually wrote are two different things. You may not appreciate statistics, but you're a liberal arts major, you should appreciate the written word. Where we appreciate the meaning of implied. Like I said if those statements don't allow you to understand what was meant just say so. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I guess, but that's kind of permanent. I don't begrudge anyone the right to have children if they can take care of them. But it still convenience. WSS I'd be willing to wager if abortions are performed out of 'inconvienence'- most of the time it would also be inconvienent on the tax payer. Simply put, until I see a lack of bitching about single mom's needing food stamps, then I'll be willing to hear arguments more consistent in belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I'd be willing to wager if abortions are performed out of 'inconvienence'- most of the time it would also be inconvienent on the tax payer. Simply put, until I see a lack of bitching about single mom's needing food stamps, then I'll be willing to hear arguments more consistent in belief. I don't know where you stand on the issue but most people here purposely misconstrue the subject.Young people (or anybody really) who have children out of wedlock do not, in my opinion, carry them to term because abortion is unavailable or illegal. In most cases it's simply biological human and animal nature to reproduce. No matter what kind of high-minded and lofty excuses anybody wants to make. I would wager if there were mobile abortion units that would come to your home and do them for free the number of illegitimate births wouldn't be reduced significantly. Those that have abortions performed just don't want to go through the bother of raising a child or the 9 months gestation period, the expense or the delivery. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 If it's simply the taxpayer you are worried about then we should force abortions on anyone under a certain educational, age, marital status or income level. Problem solved. Right? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I think weed should be legal, but I have no plans to smoke it. Get it? wait wut? you want a behavior that you don't wish to partake in to still be legal? wut? what is that? I don't what that is.......are you from earth even? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Those that have abortions performed just don't want to go through the bother of raising a child or the 9 months gestation period, the expense or the delivery. WSS do you see how some people who are on the border financially, see the insistent abuse people on welfare take....and think to themselves having this child may make me fall through the social net and maybe that help won't be there. So they opt to have an abortion so they don't lose their job and they can have a child later when they are in a better position. Does that make at least some sense to you? Not everyone is thrilled they have to have an abortion. I get really sick of one side painting the other as hungry baby killers that begrudge every pregnant woman walking down the street for not having had that thing taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 do you see how some people who are on the border financially, see the insistent abuse people on welfare take....and think to themselves having this child may make me fall through the social net and maybe that help won't be there. So they opt to have an abortion so they don't lose their job and they can have a child later when they are in a better position. Does that make at least some sense to you? Not everyone is thrilled they have to have an abortion. I get really sick of one side painting the other as hungry baby killers that begrudge every pregnant woman walking down the street for not having had that thing taken care of. I understand all of that. All perfectly good reasons to not have children. Still your financial situation boils down to convenience.So have the abortion by all means. Just be adult enough to admit that it's birth control. Whether you're thrilled about it or not doesn't matter. Most people I would guess aren't thrilled to get up and go to work everyday. And again it's more fun to have sex that it is to take precautions. Here's an analogy. You're out drinking and have to drive home. Odds are (thousands of people drive while impaired each and every day and very few of them have accidents or get arrested) you will not have a problem, so you take that risk. If you do get caught, it will probably just be a matter of inconvenience. You will have to pay a big fine and won't be allowed to drive for a certain amount of time. But in the end your life will be a bigger pain in the ass for a while. Like raising a kid or pay child support. Look I'm not calling for a ban on abortion, just trying to get some of you guys to admit that it's not a noble endeavor but a somewhat distasteful method of avoiding consequences. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 wait wut? you want a behavior that you don't wish to partake in to still be legal? wut? what is that? I don't what that is.......are you from earth even? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Right? Totally alien, andromeda galaxy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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