Mudfly Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Pettine was in charge. . You loved everything associated with Pettine. Your bitterness over his firing oozes into every post. I like the players you listed too. I liked Farmer, but unlike you, I can let it go and like Sashi too. Hmm.....looks to me like it was you who brought him up....... I let them go....but I just dont like what I see happening now....seems like(for the millionth time) you cant get that to sink into your narrow mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 You can say that all you want, doesn't make it true. You defended the vast majority of questionable Pettine moves to the hilt. With this regime it's nothing but whining about absolutely everything with a ton of being a smartass sprinkled in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 get a life Wargo.....and a new hobby.....you always telling poeple what and how to post has gotten old....try just offering your football insight and let the others do the same(me included) and bitchin about me bitchin about Pettine?.....tis you who needs to let it go.....again,,,,,didnt mention him once(you did) I think the FO and this team bite(worse than ever) and have every right to say it....so get over it already.....(been telling you this for a year or 2 now).... whatever your boner for me is....Ive long been tired of it.....like I said....find a new hobby and let this 40 year Browns fan speak his mind.....Ive earned the right to do it , without some smart ass kid from Texas learning me on what I should think and feel about my lifelong team ....get it??? ....(doubtful) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I would add.....Coaches coach and FO's pick players...... My argument last year was I thought the talent was the issue, not coaching.... Same story this year.....my beef is with the FO, not the coaches.....so how does me not liking Sashi even relate to Pettine(coach).....your mixed up....(and back on ignore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 pretty obvious that most of us want to see those things... but throwing off on Danny Shelton was stupid - the kid very obviously means business, lost that weight - you worry too much, Chris. The Browns need to draft/sign a safety and fix the secondary. Without Joe Haden in there, they are nearly helpless. Kindred can play - he will be even better next year. S or CB in the first round. I do believe thte Browns will draft a qb. I would hope, though it's very..very early, that it would be Trubisky. Not sold on Kizer at this point. Still don't know if/how RGIII sees the field like he needs to. I admire McCown - Kessler makes the quickest, smartest decisions of the three. Right now, I think Trubisky is like Kessler with a bigger arm. Still, I LOVE the way the Browns play this year- as far as attitude, going for it- being a TEAM, .. they are just not that many players away. They kick ass often and move the ball, etc. The defense is starting to shove the run up the middle in the offenses' face. I've watched every game Notre Dame, Clemson, Louisville, Ohio State, this year and Lamar Jackson is the QB I would target. He's 6'3" 205lbs and has 26 touchdowns and close to 3,000 yards through nine games. He's only a sophomore but if he declares that's the guy!Kizer truly stinks and is over hyped. Remember Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn?! JT Barret from Ohio State is better than Kizer anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I've watched every game Notre Dame, Clemson, Louisville, Ohio State, this year and Lamar Jackson is the QB I would target. He's 6'3" 205lbs and has 26 touchdowns and close to 3,000 yards through nine games. He's only a sophomore but if he declares that's the guy! Kizer truly stinks and is over hyped. Remember Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn?! JT Barret from Ohio State is better than Kizer anyway. Opal-he can't declare. That is the point. You must be at least a Jr. or a redshirt soph to declare. He is a true soph and therefore ineligible to declare for the 2017 draft. Now basketball is a totally different story, but this is how it works currently for the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 get a life Wargo.....and a new hobby.....you always telling poeple what and how to post has gotten old....try just offering your football insight and let the others do the same(me included) and bitchin about me bitchin about Pettine?.....tis you who needs to let it go.....again,,,,,didnt mention him once(you did) I think the FO and this team bite(worse than ever) and have every right to say it....so get over it already.....(been telling you this for a year or 2 now).... whatever your boner for me is....Ive long been tired of it.....like I said....find a new hobby and let this 40 year Browns fan speak his mind.....Ive earned the right to do it , without some smart ass kid from Texas learning me on what I should think and feel about my lifelong team ....get it??? ....(doubtful) You practically got a degree in apologetics during the Pettine era but now criticize the FO and coaching staff (no matter how much you deny it) for every. little. thing. You don't have to throw an addendum of "I'm mad about Pettine" on every post for everyone here not to get the implication. So whether you mention him explicitly or not, we all know what the agenda is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I would add.....Coaches coach and FO's pick players...... My argument last year was I thought the talent was the issue, not coaching.... Same story this year.....my beef is with the FO, not the coaches.....so how does me not liking Sashi even relate to Pettine(coach).....your mixed up....(and back on ignore) Riiiiight. You constantly point out how neither side of the ball has improved (even though re: offense, pretty much no one agrees with you). You said last week we quit in the second half. You said our halftime adjustments sucked. If I wanted to spend some time, I could probably find a million more examples. So no, I'm not mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Hopes......... I don't have to sell more of my tickets Dreams...... I get to go to the Super Bowl as a season ticket holder Fear..... I have spent 100's of thousands of dollars for the worst run sport franchise EVER!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Opal-he can't declare. That is the point. You must be at least a Jr. or a redshirt soph to declare. He is a true soph and therefore ineligible to declare for the 2017 draft. Now basketball is a totally different story, but this is how it works currently for the NFL. I wasn't sure about that AG- thanks for clearing it up. Riiiiight. You constantly point out how neither side of the ball has improved (even though re: offense, pretty much no one agrees with you). You said last week we quit in the second half. You said our halftime adjustments sucked. If I wanted to spend some time, I could probably find a million more examples. So no, I'm not mixed up. Ha no one agrees with Mud? From a points scored\game standpoint- (29th NFL) I can sure say we've seen no improvement. Is the talent better? Maybe- but that talent hasn't translated into wins,or points. And the defense is flat out terrible. Maybe if we had a defense on the order of the '85 Bears, we might have eked out a few wins by now. Getting beat by an average of 11 per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 You can say that all you want, doesn't make it true. You defended the vast majority of questionable Pettine moves to the hilt. With this regime it's nothing but whining about absolutely everything with a ton of being a smartass sprinkled in. Mud makes more sense than you child. He wants to see good football played like most Browns fans. You seem more like another loser from taxas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 We are now 10 point underdogs to the 4-4 Ravens Th night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 If that's a joke, I don't get it. This ought to help... ... sarcastic ahole comments.. DON'T you DARE call Mud sarcastic... Better? You loved everything associated with Pettine. Your bitterness over his firing oozes into every post. Now a serious post... Bullfuck! Mud, I and a couple others pointed out the lack of talent on the team in general and the Defense in particular. We felt this was at least a significant, if not the major, reason for the team's lack of success... especially in 2015. No one ever apologized for Pettine. We simply challenged the majority, which I'd forgotten included you, that Coaching was THE problem. I forgot forgot you were a Farmer guy, that's how much I;ve clung to Pet, but in typing this I suddenly did remember that you were a Manzielot... one of the "good ones". So it makes sense that you would end up on the other side of our argument since your boy's destructive presence was a burden for any HC, let alone a first timer... ... but that's no reason for you to make shit up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 But he is sarcastic all the time. Hence the post not making sense. I liked Farmer and I wanted to keep Pettine. We could hire Mickey Mouse and I would want to see Him get a minimum of three years. Last year's team had a ton more talent than this one, and Pettine scratched out three wins. I do believe that with last year's talent and schedule, Hue would have notched at least twice that. Apologetics, "challenges," whatever verbiage you want to use: you guys defended Pettine. My point is Mud makes no attempt at the same for Hue. You do. You guys are handling this differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 Whats funny is that I made one comment on this thread...one......and it was a reference to picking 4 WR's when we desperately needed defense.... And now........Wargo has spent two whole pages bitching about it.....as if my one post ruined the whoie board or something.... And that ONE comment about the FO has now evolved to a rant about how Im not treating Hue right? Yer an idiot... And,.....in the end....what Im saying now(about this team and the FO) WILL prove to be true....... So, go ahead Wargo....rant a few more pages about my terrible posts.....but NOTE that the board is riddled with threads about firing Hue, and 0-16, and this team quitting AND IM NOT ON ANY OF THEM......so before you cast stones at me as some kind of negative jerk and the only guy who cant see the great things that are happening....take a look around,,,,and see who IS on all those threads and who isnt... and re-read this thread to determine who the real whiny bitch is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 Still you. I like how you're using the opinion of others here as validation, yet when most of the board hated Pettine you spent hours and hours trying to change hearts. Pretty much made my point exactly. No benefit of the doubt for Hue from you. The real prime contender for a firing here is whoever.....taught......you.....punctuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 Still you. I like how you're using the opinion of others here as validation, yet when most of the board hated Pettine you spent hours and hours trying to change hearts. Pretty much made my point exactly. No benefit of the doubt for Hue from you. The real prime contender for a firing here is whoever.....taught......you.....punctuation. Lol, and with correct punctuation, you can go up by going down. Please lower it up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 When you get down to punctuation comments.... you've lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 I liked pettine but hated farmer. I like jackson but hate horton... Unfortunately Jackson an horton are a package deal so sorry hue you made your bed. I do like our front office this go around though and have liked our draft not so much our free agency but i have a feeling that will pick up next year. I get the build from draft but i predict much more activity in free agency this upcoming offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 When you get down to punctuation comments.... you've lost... Nah, I have wanted to say something forever because excessive ellipse users bug the hell out of me and I saw the opening. He apologized (or whatever word you want to use) for Pettine but unloads on Hue. Simple as that. I didn't/won't make a critical evaluation of either in their first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 He apologized (or whatever word you want to use) for Pettine but unloads on Hue. Simple as that. This is my last comment(cause Ive said it a billion times)...and then Im out... 1) I did not defend Pettine, I fought against another reboot. Had plenty of issues with both Pettine and Farmer, but argued endlessly that THEY were not the reason the team sucked and that the team would suck even with a new coach. Again....Im not a Pettine fan, Im a reboot hater.....(and I was right, the team isnt any better) Note: you mentioned in one of your previous comments that you thought Jackson would have won 4 more games with the same team. Does that mean you advocate tearing a 7-9 team down to dust? Cause that would be crazy...right?....who does that? 2) I have NEVER unloaded on Hue. EVER. And, infact, have said a number of times(on this board) that he should NOT be fired(for the same reasons Pettine shouldnt have been fired) and he should have time...but, that does not mean I think he's perfect or a savior either....so, yeah, when I see questionable shit I will say it.....just like I did with Farmer and Pettine many many times....but having a negative critique is not unloading on Hue......I have no issue with Hue, other than him being crowned some type of genius and savior, when he looks more like an average rookie head coach.....actually kind of feel sorry for him....think Shashi is shafting him a bit.....just my opinon 3) And finally.....for like the 3rd time.... In this thread, I went after the FO....FO ....FO......yet you insist I am engaging in some type of Pettine thing. Which makes no sense, considering Im talking about FO.....Ive not mentioned Pettine in one post, but you have thrown him in my face in your last 7 posts.....and you were the one telling me to "get over it"..... How about you do the same....?....K? it's all spelled out for you....again.....please try to understand this time....and if you still insist on attaching your own meaning of what Im thinking and completely discount what Im telling you Im thinking....then there is no help ......your on your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 You mean the FO is more responsible for the players on the field than Magical Coach Number 32? How dare you, sir. I demand satisfaction. Pistols at dawn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 This is my last comment(cause Ive said it a billion times)...and then Im out... 1) I did not defend Pettine, I fought against another reboot. Had plenty of issues with both Pettine and Farmer, but argued endlessly that THEY were not the reason the team sucked and that the team would suck even with a new coach. Again....Im not a Pettine fan, Im a reboot hater.....(and I was right, the team isnt any better) Certainly not how I remember it but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, the comments you make now are not even remotely the same. So I guess you're not a reboot hater anymore. Note: you mentioned in one of your previous comments that you thought Jackson would have won 4 more games with the same team. Does that mean you advocate tearing a 7-9 team down to dust? Cause that would be crazy...right?....who does that? 7-9 as a ceiling with a really good coach? No, not crazy at all. That's a crappy team. 2) I have NEVER unloaded on Hue. EVER. And, infact, have said a number of times(on this board) that he should NOT be fired(for the same reasons Pettine shouldnt have been fired) and he should have time...but, that does not mean I think he's perfect or a savior either....so, yeah, when I see questionable shit I will say it.....just like I did with Farmer and Pettine many many times....but having a negative critique is not unloading on Hue......I have no issue with Hue, other than him being crowned some type of genius and savior, when he looks more like an average rookie head coach.....actually kind of feel sorry for him....think Shashi is shafting him a bit.....just my opinon I agree to a degree. A small degree. 3) And finally.....for like the 3rd time.... In this thread, I went after the FO....FO ....FO......yet you insist I am engaging in some type of Pettine thing. Which makes no sense, considering Im talking about FO.....Ive not mentioned Pettine in one post, but you have thrown him in my face in your last 7 posts.....and you were the one telling me to "get over it"..... I laid out several examples of you unloading on Hue though. How about you do the same....?....K? it's all spelled out for you....again.....please try to understand this time....and if you still insist on attaching your own meaning of what Im thinking and completely discount what Im telling you Im thinking....then there is no help ......your on your own I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Best staff on the planet. Too bad they can't put more points on the board than the opposing team though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me. Well....they certainly didnt listen to me last year.....or this year...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is. Bro Mud isn't the problem. The inconsistency of the front office is....... It's good to remain optimistic, but Hue isn't some kind of genius, he's been dealt a rough deck and he's struggling with not much talent..... As far as Cam Erving goes, maybe he should quit football and become a Chef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Bro Mud isn't the problem. The inconsistency of the front office is....... It's good to remain optimistic, but Hue isn't some kind of genius, he's been dealt a rough deck and he's struggling with not much talent..... I think part of the reason our O falls off in the second half is that we just don't have the talent to keep it up - in the first half, we can maybe do all kinds of surprise things that catch a team off guard, but that runs out and teams force us to play standard stuff, and we struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 As far as Cam Erving goes, maybe he should quit football and become a Chef? "Sushi With Sashi and Chef Cam!" Yeah, has a nice TV program ring to it. God please make this happen, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just browsing through this topic, the truth is you guys are all correct. Coaching was a problem last year. Pettine did not hold players accountable. Jim O'Neil is sucking just as bad in SF as he did here. Maybe that SF defense also lacks talent, but the common denominator I see is Jim O'Neil. Talent was also a problem last year. We know this now because we got rid of a coaching staff that had maybe less than 50 years combined experience with a coaching staff that has over 120 years of combined experience, and the team still sucks. So talent is a problem this year, too. We all have to accept that changing the coaching staff was only part of the solution. We now need to improve the team's talent. That's going to take multiple drafts. It's going to take time to develop that talent, and sometimes that takes years. Look at Danny Shelton. Last year people were calling him a bust. Now he's one of the top DT in the league. Getting rid of the coaching staff or the FO will just set us back because new guys come in and get rid of anybody they don't like. We've been doing that in Cleveland since 1999 and that is why we rarely win. Hue Jackson is the right man for this job because despite being 0-9, he still comes in Monday morning with a positive and determined attitude. As for Cam Erving, we need to try him out at right tackle before he's declared a bust. The guy is too tall for center. Look at how O-lines line up. The center is right up on the line of scrimmage obviously, and other linemen are about a foot back from it. Tall guys like Erving need that space to get their momentum going for run blocking and they need the time it gives them to react when pass blocking. Erving doesn't get that at center. And oh yeah, he played more games at tackle in college than center. The guy is a tackle, not a center, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 As for Cam Erving, we need to try him out at right tackle before he's declared a bust. The guy is too tall for center. Look at how O-lines line up. The center is right up on the line of scrimmage obviously, and other linemen are about a foot back from it. Tall guys like Erving need that space to get their momentum going for run blocking and they need the time it gives them to react when pass blocking. Erving doesn't get that at center. And oh yeah, he played more games at tackle in college than center. The guy is a tackle, not a center, folks. Agree with much of your full post... less so in its closing paragraph. While it's true Cam is tall for a Center, regardless of where you play on the OL "explosion" out of a stance is a requirement of the position and Cam does not have it. Wherever you put him on the line the D will adjust and expose him. This is what I said during his stint at OG last season. And when I reviewed his limited tape at Center at LSU, it was clear that he had issues whenever a DL covered him. This is why I laughed when folks said he'd be fine once moved to Center, his "natural" position. And it is not as if there have not been successful, tall interior OL in the league. As for OT... no, just no. He does not have the feet for PassPro. That was clear on his LSU tape... on a lot more tape than had him at Center. His only chance is in the "phone booth" and even in there his reaction to stunts, any quick rush is woeful. Put him on the edge and as a DC I overpower him with big DEs on early downs and run around him in passing situations. He simply cannot be hidden. Might he improve? Sure... but even vs. other OL prospects on our roster, I do not like his odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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