jbluhm86 Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 In 2016: 62 sacks allowed (franchise record) 403 sack yards allowed (franchise record) Contrary to some other people's beliefs on here, the Browns can probably benefit from a draft pick or two for overhauling the O-line. Probably one of our biggest needs. No sense in drafting a franchise QB, only to have him murdered behind a porous line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisville Slugger Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 I dont think those numbers paint an accurate picture. Erving really hurt us, but alot of those sacks come from our quarterbacks holding the ball too long or they couldn't manipulate the pocket. I think center needs and upgrade and we can do better at right tackle, but for the most part we have talented guys across the line. Get a center and let them gel as unit and I think we will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 In 2016: 62 sacks allowed (franchise record) 403 sack yards allowed (franchise record) Contrary to some other people's beliefs on here, the Browns can probably benefit from a draft pick or two for overhauling the O-line. Probably one of our biggest needs. No sense in drafting a franchise QB, only to have him murdered behind a porous line. I have to wonder how much of those stats Turnstile Erving is responsible for? How many due to Bitonio and to a lesser extent Greco being injured? As LS said how many due to the qb being slow on the draw to get the ball out? More than once Griffin, especially McCown, and Kess had plenty of time to unload the rock. How many are due to inexperience? I saw one sackaroo totally due to that in the Chargers game. Joe T rode his guy to the outside, Drango blocked his guy to the inside, and there was a gap wide enough to drive a car through, which the Chargers defender said gee thanks for the unabated to the quarterback. I'm all for drafting at least one OL high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 QB or WR. Fat ass OL a dime a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 I have to wonder how much of those stats Turnstile Erving is responsible for? How many due to Bitonio and to a lesser extent Greco being injured? As LS said how many due to the qb being slow on the draw to get the ball out? More than once Griffin, especially McCown, and Kess had plenty of time to unload the rock. How many are due to inexperience? I saw one sackaroo totally due to that in the Chargers game. Joe T rode his guy to the outside, Drango blocked his guy to the inside, and there was a gap wide enough to drive a car through, which the Chargers defender said gee thanks for the unabated to the quarterback. I'm all for drafting at least one OL high. We have 3 QBs who hold the ball too long leading to sacks, holding calls, & injury from QBs being hit at full speed as a result of what Hoorta pointed out. Either throw with anticipation or throw it away. Another issue is inexperienced WRs failing to adjust routes to help the QBs out. Just my opinion, right or wrong. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Do we have to make threads making fun of the opinion of a population that represents MAYBE 1% of this board? Next to NO ONE believes the Browns have an elite OL. There is, however, a "our OL is ok" group, and if you only want us to draft one or two, you're part of it. If you want to join the "our OL is a total disaster" crowd, they want at least 3 OL in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkid3 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Only delusional fan I know that thinks our line is ELITE is vapor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 With Bito & Reiter back next year, I'm not overly concerned about the O line. I still think it would proactive if we take a stab at one in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Has anyone put a stopwatch on our qb's? Are they holding too long by league standards or just holdingbthe ball too long for a clev brown qb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Which in cleveland is anything over 2s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 No way this thread isn't anything other than trolling. Paz has been far better than expected - he was the #1 RT in the league and a top-10 tackle in the entire league for the vast majority of the season. Is top-10 elite? It's sure good enough to not need replacing - or whining about. Bito is a pro bowler. Greco may not be any more, but he's not done. Erving needs to be cut, yes. But the QB's do hold the ball far too long - and that's not the OL's fault. Also, the blocking of the TE and RB's still needs to be significantly upgraded.. those were the reason for the lack of run game 2yrs ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 They need a real center and poss a couple more plug and play OL considering there is no depth at that position. Not to worry though we have half machines half humans making the browns personnel decisions. We are the robots! -kraftwerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 We don't need to spend a draft pick above a third rounder on an offensive lineman. Suggesting it is preposterous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Just assuming Bito and Reiter come back 100% and ready to roll for 2017 is 'preposterous'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Well, best case scenario given what we saw we know the line is the following Thomas, who will be 32/33, although he may play till he's 50 Bitonio, good player, still young Greco, who will be 32 btw Paztor, slowly getting better Erving, just cut his ass and the other band of players (Cooper, Dranjo, etc) Does this really give you a warm fuzzy feeling for 2017? Of course I don't want the first 2,even 3 picks to be an OL. But with the Titans pick looking to be a early-ish 2nd rounder, I wouldn't be upset at all if this was an OL,especially at center. Hell, I wouldn't be upset if it was tackle prospect to play and consider long-term implications. OL is one of the areas we could easily get improvement on in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 If we can lure a guy like zeitler, I think we could stand Pat as the youngons grow. Maybe a 4th round on some depth to compete. Granted in not as down on Irving as most, he got much better as the season wore on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Yeah, we've certainly had our share of struggles. Between injuries, QB's holding onto the ball too long, inadequate OL play, and just bad play-calling...the sacks we've given up are unacceptable. Conversely, we don't return the favor and sack the opposing team's QB...like...ever. We forced Rivers into some rushed throws, but we never brought him down, and that's unacceptable. Not one time. I saw countless times where we sent 5 or even 6 defenders, and I saw them simply get enveloped by a Chargers OL with more injuries than ours. We couldn't beat 3rd string players. So, yes you're right about drafting OL, but just importantly is drafting SOMEONE that can get to the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Something that doesn't get mentioned a lot is the impact of the QB calling out protections - something you can guarantee RG3 isn't going to excel at, and Kessler is just a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor. That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor. That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field. "I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field." That's not saying much TC. I still think we need an upgrade at center. Too bad Mack wanted out of town. I really do see us drafting OL with one of the two second round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Why so many sacks? Well, let's start with the two things you can't blame: 1. Our Left Tackle: He's every bit as good as all of his accolades. 2. The scheme: Andy Dalton's sacks doubled this year without Hue. In fact, the two years that Hue was OC, he was sacked 20.5 times per season. The years without Hue: 34.8 sacks per season So here are the things you CAN blame: 1. Inexperience: Other than JT, this is who we started last week ...LG Spencer Drango, rookie, 8 starts. I believe he played left tackle in college, so these may be the fifth rounder's only starts at LG. Ever. ... C Cam Erving, 2nd year, 12 starts as a center, 4 as a guard. Cam now has a grand total of 16 starts under his belt when you throw in the four he had when he got thrown in at guard last year ... Jonathan Cooper, RG, 3rd year, 14 starts. Despite being in the league a year longer than Cam, he actually has less NFL starts. Not to mention, he was picked up midseason, did not have a training camp with this staff, and only three starts in this system ... RT Austin Pasztor, 5th year, 42 starts. This 26 year old is the greybeard of the fearsome foursome, but this is the most he has ever started in one season, and only the second time he started half a season or more. 2. Ability: Drango is a 5th round rookie, Cooper was available off the street midseason, Erving has been a disappointment by all measurements so far and Pasztor was originally undrafted and was released last year, we picked up off the trash heap to be honest. (I'm not saying these guys don't have a bright future with us, just pointing out what we are working with). 3. Holding the Ball too long: Kessler and McCoy were notorious and Griffin has been doing it as well. With Kessler I think inexperience is a big factor, with McCoy and Griffin, I think the biggest factor is ... 4.THE WIDE RECEIVERS: Neither of our starting wideouts had ever started a game in the NFL before this season. One converted from QB to WR last year, the other is a 22 yo rookie. The rest of the bunch are rookies as well, spare Andrew Hawkins who is another guy that needs support. He needs big time WRs to open up the field so he can do his thing from the slot. So do we draft OL? Sure, you always do. I think you can pencil in Thomas, Bitonio and Erving next year. Cooper could be the man at RG. So you've got Drango, Shon Coleman and Pasztor to compete for the other spot and you throw a top 3 round rookie in there and we may just be alright. Nothing helps like experience. And that includes experience not just on the line, but at QB and WR as well. It is all going to get better. We have a boatload of picks, and I'm sure the OL will not be ignored. But it is not priority #1. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Edited: Cooper SO not going to be the man at RG next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor. That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field. Agreed. Let's just get Elflein or Pocic and let whoever wins the battle get the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Edited: Cooper SO not going to be the man at RG next year. Why do you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Why do you say that? http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45265 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Center has to be addressed. That simple. Ervings body of work in two years doesn't point to giving us the ability to ignore the position moving forward. Especially if there are potentially great centers available via draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 "I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field." That's not saying much TC. I still think we need an upgrade at center. Too bad Mack wanted out of town. I really do see us drafting OL with one of the two second round picks. I think he's actually coming into his own a bit. I would still advocate for a 3rd round center for competition sake, but Erving has played remarkably better in the last two-three games and he's....dare I say it....earned a chance to compete for the starting nod next season. Erving is currently getting the Schwartz treatment - bad early career left him as the butt of jokes to the point that it shrouded his actual good play when it ultimately happened. He was the second highest rated offensive player against Buffalo. The game is coming along. I think Hue is invested heavily in Erving at this point and we'all see him at starting C next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor. That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field. All I can is we fundamentally disagree here. Erving is turning into the defintion of a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 All I can is we fundamentally disagree here. Erving is turning into the defintion of a bust. Have you actually watched him play recently or are you just going with what people on message boards say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Have you actually watched him play recently or are you just going with what people on message boards say? Yes, I have watched him TC. He's advanced from a total pile of crap, to just on the low side of mediocre. Not addressed to you- but some folks here think if a player suits up and gets on the field, he must be OK at least. I wouldn't be all that shocked if we have two new starters on OL next year. Other than JT and Bito, IMHO- we could upgrade at all the other spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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