Betsy DeVos

[Clevfan4life]

Go apply for a welding job with zero welding exp and no certificate. Go on try it, it'll look like stepbrothers

[Erie Dawg]

Wut? Are any of you gainfully employed? Cause the private sector doesn't typically hire people cause someone feels real good about a person who has zero demonstrable experience in the job he/she is applying for.

Obviously from your 40+ posts throughout the day today you must be a real heavy hitter at the firm.

[Clevfan4life]

Obviously from your 40+ posts throughout the day today you must be a real heavy hitter at the firm.

I was out on the road today but in any case posting on the phone takes seconds, its no big deal

[Westside Steve]

She's qualified because she's been involved with the process, weather or not you think lobbyist is some sort of pariah word. She's not part of the teachers union establishment which hasn't done a great job so far, right? Except for to line their own pockets and make actual education harder for the people who pay taxes for it. It's high time to break that not working box and Trump understands that. The president wants her advice and understand that experience and Leadership can translate into success in other fields. Senatorr Lieberman thinks she knows her shit and has no reason to lie.

 

You and you wood man, on the other hand think that she's not qualified because she hasn't had to worry about a student loan and didn't go to public school. Neither of those two so-called qualifications mean Jack shit. If she had would you think that was qualified? Charles Manson went to a public school.

 

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By the way she probably got a better education but not going to a public school and there's another plus.

Same reason Obama's kids don't go to public school or Hillary's.

But whatever her expertise might be it afforded her the opportunity to be in a complex leadership position with a great deal of success and president Trump believes that makes her capable I'm looking at the education problems and maybe seeing a different angle. And the president should be allowed to pick people he wants without sharing Chuck Schumer Al Franken or Woody's ideology.

 

And frankly T I don't know what difference it possibly makes that you've gone too public and private school. So have I. I've never had a student loan and I don't suppose Woody's was much of a problem.

 

But having a grip on business would certainly help because education is a business and it's not being run efficiently at the present time.

 

But having an opinion on whether to teach Huckleberry Finn in the 11th or 12th grade or how many actual hours of work a union teacher is forced to endear during a day pale in comparison to getting such a large and unwieldy system to operate efficiently.

 

That business acumen and that ideology appears to be more important to the president classroom experience. And I think it is too.

 

I minored in secondary ed and I certainly understand the reluctance of Union teachers to have to operate under the rules that most people do. Work four or five hours a day 9 months a year, rote teaching from a pre-ordained lesson plan? Schools dropping extracurricular activities because teachers have to be paid two or three times the average working person and Performing about half the work and retiring 10 years earlier on the public dime? Yes T these are things that a business person could work on. And we should work on those and I believe President probably wants to work on those. Hence his decision.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Go apply for a welding job with zero welding exp and no certificate. Go on try it, it'll look like stepbrothers

Wait a minute you idiot were just saying that this isn't the grunt job?

This is an executive position. This is a position where you have to be able to look at the big picture and see what's working and what isn't working. Much like coaching a football team. I don't know that Bill Belichick ever played professional football at an All-Pro level did he?

 

It would be much easier for a successful motorcycle dealership owner to take the job as general manager of that same welding shop than it would one of the welders taking over the entire business.

The CEO of Hoover probably isn't a maid.

Maybe a hotel empresario can have success without actually having made beds, dealt cards, mixed drinks, swept floors or plowed the parking lot.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Also something to think about if anybody cares to think. List a few problems with the educational system as it stands and has it has stood for the last bunch of years. Now which of these situations would a school teacher be best prepared to deal with? And which with some sort of administration or budget or business person?

 

PS I don't think the problems have much to do with rank-and-file teachers.

 

WSS

[tiamat63]

She's qualified because she's been involved with the process.

 

I've been involved with the process, so have my parents. They've paid tuition, and petitioned for the charters at one point. So that makes them about as qualified, no?

 

 

 

weather or not you think lobbyist is some sort of pariah word.

 

Borrowing phrases from Cal "If it quacks like a duck". I don't think she's a lobbyist, that's exactly what she is. No need to try to church it up for me. Doesn't make it a bad thing.

 

 

She's not part of the teachers union establishment which hasn't done a great job so far, right?

 

Don't really give a shit about the teachers union in and of itself, so that's a non issue in our discussion.

 

You and you wood man, on the other hand think that she's not qualified because she hasn't had to worry about a student loan and didn't go to public school.

 

My questioning is completely separate from Woody's and is my own curiosity. Whether she paid for her education with loans, grants or cash means nothing to me as well. Having experience as an educator and/or administration in the sector does.

I fail to see how she meets either of those two categories.

 

 

Neither of those two so-called qualifications mean Jack shit. If she had would you think that was qualified? Charles Manson went to a public school.

 

I never brought up either of the 'qualifications' you mentioned, you lumped me in with another poster for God knows what reason(s). I'm clarifying my stance that has nothing to do with Woody.

Also, I don't know where you're going with the Charles Manson thing. To be honest, I Dont' think you do either.

 

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And the president should be allowed to pick people he wants

 

And Trump is very much allowed. Just like he's allowed to receive backlash for it. Or have you not seen Cal's old posts that Woody dug up?

 

And frankly T I don't know what difference it possibly makes that you've gone too public and private school. So have I. I've never had a student loan and I don't suppose Woody's was much of a problem.

 

We've had experience in both systems, with both faculties, the knowledge of the costs, quality of education

 

But having a grip on business would certainly help because education is a business and it's not being run efficiently at the present time.

 

That is a fundamental issue I have with this country. Education should NOT be a business but that's a discussion for another time.

 

 

That business acumen and that ideology appears to be more important to the president classroom experience. And I think it is too.

 

So turn the education system into a numbers game? News for you, it's pretty much already that.

 

I minored in secondary ed and I certainly understand the reluctance of Union teachers to have to operate under the rules that most people do. Work four or five hours a day 9 months a year, rote teaching from a pre-ordained lesson plan? Schools dropping extracurricular activities because teachers have to be paid two or three times the average working person and Performing about half the work and retiring 10 years earlier on the public dime?

 

WSS

 

Cal's lady is a teacher, I believe? Should we consult with him that his wife is just on easy street as you seemed to have painted? No need of course, I have an aunt and three cousins that are teachers including the state rep for my home district that was a former teacher of mine. This comment is far from reality.

 

My grandmother was on the board of education at one point, I'm familiar with several administrators at a high school level. All of them have degrees and experience directly involved in their field including education. They never would have been able to head up the schools that they do without it. If you haven't experienced working in the field at the most fundamental levels, how do you sit at its highest chair and expect to have the pulse of the nation, it's peoples and needs?

 

 

[tiamat63]

I don't know that Bill Belichick ever played professional football at an All-Pro level did he?

 

 

WSS

 

 

But Bill played football at several different levels before. So unlike Mrs Devos, has actually been involved with the game even at its most basic levels. Not your best example, Steve.

[gftChris]

 

 

But Bill played football at several different levels before. So unlike Mrs Devos, has actually been involved with the game even at its most basic levels. Not your best example, Steve.

Bill's dad Steve was also a long term coach at college level and Bill spent a lot of his spare time involved in the process at Navy. He also wasn't just appointed head coach of the browns/pats from the street, he spent fifteen years working his way up through the ranks from the lowest to the highest positions on the teams.

 

But I'm sure it's a perfect analogy.

[Westside Steve]

I'm a little busy right now but I'll get to one point before I get to the rest. Sorry I lumped you in with Woody.

His tears were over the fact that she's unqualified because she wasn't a school teacher and didn't go to public school and didn't have a student loan , none of which I think make any difference. The Manson remark was that Manson did go to a public school.

So, in case it's still not clear, would he be more qualified?

Maybe I should have included the winky face.

 

WSS

[tiamat63]

I'm a little busy right now but I'll get to one point before I get to the rest. Sorry I lumped you in with Woody.

His tears were over the fact that she's unqualified because she wasn't a school teacher and didn't go to public school and didn't have a student loan oh, none of which I think make any difference. The Manson remark was that Manson did go to a public school.

So, in case it's still not clear, would he be more qualified?

 

WSS

 

 

I mean, if Manson could run the school like a business (as some of you wish) I think we'd be willing to just call him eccentric, eh?

 

edit: To avoid answering questions with questions. Obviously that's a no.

 

Where the education is sought means little to me, I can't be more clear about that. However your experience as an educator, administrator, working IN the school system it self is paramount to what I'm saying.

 

To date, Betsy Devos has been in neither of those positions.

[Westside Steve]

 

 

I mean, if Manson could run the school like a business (as some of you wish) I think we'd be willing to just call him eccentric, eh?

Question is if he were a Teachers Union shill would I rather have him than Mother Teresa who was not, or vice versa?

WSS

[Westside Steve]

PS what's your take on abolishing the Department of Education?

 

WSS

[tiamat63]

Question is if he were a Teachers Union shill would I rather have him than Mother Teresa who was not, or vice versa?

WSS

 

Manson was the leader of a group, has that business acumen and leadership skills. I feel thats the kind of man you might want in charge.

[Westside Steve]

 

Manson was the leader of a group, has that business acumen and leadership skills. I feel thats the kind of man you might want in charge.

Well leadership skills do count. If not it could have been called The Squeaky Fromme family.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

she has been a tremendous success in being involved in competition

in the education system.

 

hell, yeah, we need that. but the opposition hates it, because the teachers union is

wonked completely, overall, for the dems and the dems kiss their ass as a group

and the power mongers in education love that.

 

Drain the swamp. Betsy will do that. Don't like it dems?tough turkeys, America

didn't like your asswipe undoing of everything American. Public education must

have competition, because right now, it's partisan, corrupt, self-serving, and a great

big giant mess. Look at the scores in science and math. STFU.

[Westside Steve]

Plus you are dreaming if you think that supporting charter schools isn't at least one of the top bugaboos of the teachers union who have the Democrats in their pocket.

 

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

Steve does ur brain ever stop you for a moment to tell u "maybe we ought to look this one up" before making fallacious equivalencies? If u had maybe you would have seen belichicks pedigree, working under legends like marchibroda and parcells. Srsly dude, theybdidnt call belichick down out of the stands one day. He wasnt some successful CEO of a cosmetics firm and someone said hey you might make a great nfl coach with that cosmetics resume

[Clevfan4life]

U've made alot of unthoughtful and sometimes flat out woefully inaccurate statements steve, but that one was special

[calfoxwc]

U've made alot of unthoughtful and sometimes flat out woefully inaccurate statements steve, but that one was special, Cleve

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just squawking back at you in a thoughful display of mirroring the irony back at you.... I don't do it often...

[Clevfan4life]

Is the quote button really that hard cal?

[calfoxwc]

it was more effective to not use it, whining litella boy.

[Clevfan4life]

it was more effective to not use it, whining litella boy.

 

Sure

[calfoxwc]

Sure

ubehcha

[Westside Steve]

U've made alot of unthoughtful and sometimes flat out woefully inaccurate statements steve, but that one was special

Frankly if you weren't such an ignorant ass hole, or even if you were and believed that you had a point it would be different. But it's not. I've heard the yap and if you believe shed be qualified if she'd been a school teacher paid for a student loan and attended a public school she'd be qualified then fine. That doesn't matter to the president and it's his fucking call.

So keep on whining.

 

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

It is his cal and im not whining but u understand what confirmation hearings are for right steve? Or are you "now" in favor of letting presidents dem or rep, pick any ole ronald mcdonald off the streets? The fact we gave confirmation hearings is so presidents cant just putbtheir goid buddys in office. So why are you guys whining about democrats opposing some of his picks when we all know the uproar that ensued everytime obama nominated someone?

[Westside Steve]

The hearings are to fuck with the president if he's not in your party.

 

Same as it ever was.

 

WSS

[Bob806]

I think the reason for the Betsy DeVos hatred is the fact that she supports at least some kind of Public Funding for Charter Schools. I have no problem with Charter Schools and the horror stories that one could find online are mostly from teachers union based sites.

The grizzly bears remark is a non-issue but I'm not surprised it's getting so much attention.

I noticed that the right is concerned that she isn't as anti Common Core as they think she should be and the left is angry that she's not more Pro Common Core. Almost laugh out loud funny but...

So what I think is that if the education the kids is the most important aspect then why not help support school choice?

The gripe I get from some Teachers Union Democrat friends is that it takes money away from the public schools and doesn't require as many regulations for the charter schools. I haven't been able to get a straight answer out of any of them what those requirements might possibly be. I would imagine that the public schools might be better off without them. But until I know exactly what the offending regulations are who can tell?

I don't want my taxes going to a for profit Charter School. Especially since my Governor robbed our municipalities of financial support to "balance the state budget," and then sent that money to said Charter Schools, one of his largest campaign donors (White Hat)....hmmmm, wonder why he dropped out of the Presidential campaign?

 

For many many years, money has been thrown at schools, hoping test scores would improve. Task force committees formed to re-write the plan of how to educate our youth. We've regulated/mandated the system to death with no positive results in test scores.

 

Face it folks- education begins at home with a strong family support system. Public school teachers know this, Charter school teachers know this. Betsy DeVos knows this, and everybody reading this forum knows this.

 

I didn't vote for Hillary, didn't like her. But she was right- it does take a village to raise a kid. The public school district is a huge part of that village and needs to be supported.

[Osiris]

 

 

Face it folks- education begins at home with a strong family support system. Public school teachers know this, Charter school teachers know this. Betsy DeVos knows this, and everybody reading this forum knows this.

 

 

 

Agree with that. Our kid's principal just had to send out a note to parents saying that it's the teacher's jobs to teach math, science, art, etc... not good manners and respect. Like seriously, we have parents who demanded that their kids be allowed to bring iPads on the school bus. We see kids practically running their household, disrespecting their parents, and we're like WTF.

[calfoxwc]

I didn't vote for Hillary, didn't like her. But she was right- it does take a village to raise a kid. The public school district is a huge part of that village and needs to be supported. Bob

**************************************************

Well, then I don't want our taxes to go to your dumb ole bad public schools...

 

Maybe we should all be allowed to decide if our taxes to to public, or private schools,

and even home schooling.

 

And baloney, it doesn't take a village. It takes involved parents, and if they want to home

school their kids, you don't need a village for sure.