Tour2ma Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 Tour, if it's inevitable we're going to draft a QB in round 1 - I'd rather have us pick Trubisky. And via very convoluted route, that's where I have ended up as well... Of the top three QB prospect in the draft: Trubs, Watson, Kizer, I have the fewest problems with Trubs at #12. I don't want him at 12, but I could live with him at 12. But NFW can I live with a QB at #1. Here's my answer to that....cause, in a way, I would.....please understand the premise.... If he's "the one" and you think he's your next franchise QB.....then you take him first......if he's not "the one" and just a project/hope/the best we got kinda guy, then lets not burn a first.....on a project....we have too many needs. If we were just a QB away, then Id say do it.....but we're much further.... I respectfully disagree. Nothing wrong with Garrett at 1 and a QB at 12. Probability plays a role... the confidence you have in a prospect enjoying success at the NFL level plays a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Toledo is barely Ohio. Michigan should just annex Toledo tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Michigan should just annex Toledo tbh They tried that once... and we showed 'em who's boss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 If we're trading back into the top 10, I'd rather get one of the elite DBs like Hooker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 If we're trading back into the top 10, I'd rather get one of the elite DBs like Hooker Happy Birthday!!State of Michigan wants their License Plate back(but your coming around ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Michigan should just annex Toledo tbh They tried that once... and we showed 'em who's boss... Hey, my wife is from Sylvania. You can about throw a rock from there into Michigan. Nothing wrong with Toledo either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Shit, I say we trade out of 12 for the 22nd pick plus a few more high picks, and then just take our franchise QB there........ what could go wrong? LMFAO!!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 NFL Network Total Access @7pm EDT today will analyze Mitchell's play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 i want to see what Greg says on the other QB's in this draftHere he is on Kizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Here he is on Kizer Why I'm not on the Kizer train. At that level you're either accurate, or you're not. Tour noted a slow wind-up too. Holding ball like a loaf of bread? Slow processing? No thanks, not even in the third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 The Cosell Kizer scouting report sounds remarkably like Jason Campbell's. Personally, I don't believe Kizer has slow eyes or trouble reading the field. I think he was neutered by Brian Kelly. He's a bit of a gunslinger who was hemmed in and put on a short leash. That ain't gonna work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Gipper only sees in various shades of Ohio You are proving to be as ignorant as your maize and blue asshole. Do you not listen to a fucking goddamned word I have been saying? I am all about the talent evaluation. Ohio has nothing to do with it. If I was all about Ohio I would have been on Cardale Jones' bandwagon, or Braxton Miller...or any number of other Ohio QBs? Is it just your poor education, or are you being consciously ignorant, like #45? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 If it will shut Gip up, I'd be elated. :lol: Just because I am not Gay for Gayrett doesn't mean anything. There are a number of other quality potential #1 picks. What Garrett plays is NOT one of the Browns major priorities. It could be said that picking him would be redundant to the Browns needs. Now, maybe he is considered the best talent....and if the Browns want to take the best talent regardless of need, so be it. But just because I don't want to suck his dick like you do does not mean you are right. I WILL take him....but don't ask me to have an orgasm over him like some of y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Toledo is barely Ohio. My statement on Gip comes from more than just his thoughts on Trubisky. I'm talking about conversations from the college thread Your statements are based on the fact that you are a Michigan fag. Anyone and everyone else on here hammers you over that fact. I am just the most effective at doing it, ergo your statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Camp Trubisky hasn't always been easy to talk with about the legit concerns people have for him in early round 1 so you can imagine That "legitimate concern" has always been about just 1 thing: experience. I never said it was not a legit concern.....but of all the concerns one can have over the choice of a QB "experience" is the least concerning concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Personally, I don't believe Kizer has slow eyes or trouble reading the field. I think he was neutered by Brian Kelly. He's a bit of a gunslinger who was hemmed in and put on a short leash. That ain't gonna work. It got Favre his only ring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Ok. What if they had to trade up to 9 to get him? And the draft unfolded in such a way that they knew they didn't have to take him #1? Biggest concern are the 49ers and Jets. Both need QBs. There are NOT going to be 2 QBs taken ahead of Trubisky in this draft. So, if MT is the guy...but you don't want to pass on Garrett....then you have to cross your fingers and hope the 49ers go all in for Kirk Cousins at some point, or that they pass on MT. Then you can start wheeling and dealing with teams that are ahead of the Jets in order to jump them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Michigan should just annex Toledo tbh They tried. A war was fought over the issue...didn't you know? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Camp Trubisky hasn't always been easy to talk with about the legit concerns people have for him in early round 1 so you can imagine That "legitimate concern" has always been about just 1 thing: experience. I have read numerous reports on him now suggesting his mechanics are flawed so it's not the only thing at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I have read numerous reports on him now suggesting his mechanics are flawed so it's not the only thing at all Some times people who make these reports feel they have to come up with something in terms of strengths and weaknesses. See this for the guy that some here are practicing onanism over: WEAKNESSES Relies heavily on tremendous athleticism and explosion. Still learning how to string moves together and work with a pass-rush plan. At times, will take too long to activate counter moves when initial attack has stalled. Effort level appears closely tied to fatigue level at times. As pass rusher, uses hands reactively too often rather than proactively. Gets too cozy with blockers and will ride block for too long. Needs more urgency in disengagement. Would benefit with violent stick-and-move punch quickness into blockers. Has to work overtime to set a strong edge. Gets uprooted and widened out by quality run-blocking tackles. Never played in more than 70 percent of the defensive snaps in any of his three seasons. Scouts are convinced he took plays off to protect his health this season. Now, who do you think this is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Some times people who make these reports feel they have to come up with something in terms of strengths and weaknesses. See this for the guy that some here are practicing onanism over: WEAKNESSES Relies heavily on tremendous athleticism and explosion. Still learning how to string moves together and work with a pass-rush plan. At times, will take too long to activate counter moves when initial attack has stalled. Effort level appears closely tied to fatigue level at times. As pass rusher, uses hands reactively too often rather than proactively. Gets too cozy with blockers and will ride block for too long. Needs more urgency in disengagement. Would benefit with violent stick-and-move punch quickness into blockers. Has to work overtime to set a strong edge. Gets uprooted and widened out by quality run-blocking tackles. Never played in more than 70 percent of the defensive snaps in any of his three seasons. Scouts are convinced he took plays off to protect his health this season. Now, who do you think this is about? Myles Garrett... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Myles Garrett... Yes....per this, he has terrible weaknesses. Drop him down to a 5th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 In fairness you were the one that said the ONLY weakness was lack of experience so I corrected you. I haven't said that about Garrett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 In fairness you were the one that said the ONLY weakness was lack of experience so I corrected you. I haven't said that about Garrett? I say that 9 out of 10 reports I have seen or heard on him mention only about his inexperience. Perhaps if these scouting services do a more in depth report they come up with more....just like they did here with Garrett. So every player ever drafted can be nitpicked. Is that what you are being a nitpicker? Only thing worse perhaps is a lollygagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 If you aren't nitpicking you aren't evaluating properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 If you aren't nitpicking you aren't evaluating properly Do you eat the nits that you pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Mitch Trubisky sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Why I'm not on the Kizer train. At that level you're either accurate, or you're not. Tour noted a slow wind-up too. Holding ball like a loaf of bread? Slow processing? No thanks, not even in the third. Bingo. Physical tools mean diddly if he's deficient in these areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 It got Favre his only ring... Favre was a gunslinger his entire career - including the 96 season. He certainly didn't "hem it in" in 96 - he was chucking bombs (and TD's) left and right. If anything, he was more wild that year. His sack percentage and most measures of pass distance were much higher than his career average. Now, put a young Favre in an open QB battle and pull him at random times and switch between him and another QB and I think his career would be a little different. I'm not saying Kizer is Brett Favre, he has his fair share of knocks. But Kizer was severely mismanaged at ND and its because Brian Kelly is pretty much one of the shittiest coaches on the planet when it comes to any sort of QB progression. A brief recap of Brian Kelly's shitty job with ND QB's to this point: 2010 - Loses Crist halfway through the year...Rees goes undefeated in his first four games as a starter. 2011 - Declares QB competition. Immediately declares Crist the winner. Then pulls Crist at halftime of the very first game of the season and names Rees the starter for the rest of the season. Wins 8 games. Crist transfers to Kansas. 2012 - Declares QB competition...again. Redshirt freshman Golson beats out Rees for the job and helps lead them to the National Championship, which they obviously lose. 2013 - Loses Golson to suspension. Rees puts together a mediocre year. 2014 - Declares open QB competition. Names Golson the starter, wins 6 straight, falls apart. Benches Golson, names Zaire the starter. 2015 - Declares another open QB competition. Doesn't name a starter either way, then Golson transfers to FSU. Loses Zaire to broken ankle, starts Kizer who wins 8 games and loses two close games to Clemson and Stanford (and one blowout to Ohio State) 2016 - Declares another open QB competition. Doesn't really name either the starter - goes into the season with a two QB system. Kizer outperforms Zaire, gets named starter. Zaire announces he'll transfer. If you're keeping score at home - that's seven years at ND as HC and five of them with open QB competitions. Probably would have been a sixth if Golson didn't get suspended. /end Brian Kelly rant Everyone is using Kizer's inability to maintain the starting job at ND as a sign that he's clearly incompetent, yet they are completely disregarding the fact that flip-flopping QB's has been the one constant of Kelly's ND coaching career. When all is said and done, Kizer is still a very raw and inexperienced player - he's not much further in his progression than Trubisky is. Everyone is using Trubisky's lack of playing time as proof that we don't really know what he is...yet Trubisky has recorded playing time in 6 more games than Kizer and has only thrown about 100 less passes. Kizer lost his job to Zaire in part because he played mediocre, but moreso because Brian Kelly had a boner for Zaire as a prospect. Zaire was the #3 ranked QB in his class and was considered to be a HUGE get for the ND program. Despite the fact that Kizer played better, Kelly kept leaving the door open for Zaire to take the job...which is the EXACT same thing he did with Rees and Crist. Crist was the #3 QB in his class and, despite Rees playing well in his limited time, Kelly gave the job back to Crist...who blew it again. Kizer is damaged goods, but in a way that makes him interesting. He's not a project because he's a small school guy. He's not a project because he's a raw physical specimen who's never played the game. He's not a project because he's stupid. He's a project because he was a decent high school QB in an NFL QB's body that got jerked around for two years by a shitty coach at a huge program. During that time, he put together enough tape to still be considered a first round pick in some circles. All of that screams "diamond in the rough" to me. All in all, I think Kizer possesses more than enough upside to warrant serious consideration if he's available at #33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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