Unsympathetic Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 I'm going through and simply noting who's still complaining about the FO.. to evaluate soon whether or not to permanently ignore them. The current Browns FO is better than anything else we've had since Ozzie Newsome walked out that door.. and he ain't coming back. Is Sashi the next Belichick? No, but all he needs to be is the next John Schneider. Schneider has been GM of Seattle since 2010, yet they didn't do anything postseason-wise until after the 2013 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Well, that's one way to look a it. But, if you look back to the very first post in this thread, made on March 2nd ... you'll see that, in my opinion, he WAS the best QB available in this draft ... and we got him in the second round ... what a deal! You would think Browns fans would be clamoring to get behind me, and others that thought like me, saying ..."wouldn't it be great if Zombo was right about this guy!" ... but instead it's "poor Cody Kessler, Brock Cockwhistler and the other little white guy who won't get a fair shot now that we've drafted this hotshot from a losing team in the second round". I'd like to think Kizer delivers pleasant surprises instead. We are certainly due. Zombo If you thought Kizer was the best of the bunch- I think you need glasses. For sure minority opinion- though I'll respect it. He got very little run predraft on the Board compared to the other three in the discussion, and about as much as Webb. Steve said it way better than I could. Yeah we got guys in the second round like Mohammad Massive Drop Massaquoi , Brian Slowbiski Robiski, Gregg Little production, Montario hardly played Hardesty- and a host of other bums. What a deal!!! Yes, I hope Sashi can do better than that horror list. TC didn't believe me, but I have a good feeling what the fan undercurrent is about Deshone. They cheered when Couch got hurt, and a fair percentage of fans aren't rolling out the welcome mat for Kizer. If Garrett, Peppers, and Njoku all pan out- Sashi is going to get a pass if he swung and missed on Deshone. It's already been pointed out in the media- the good thing being Kizer is one of the "Expendables" @ #52 should he suck, with a total contract a shade under $5 million. He'll have to show distinct signs of being "the guy" though for the Browns not to take a shot at one of the top QBs in the 2018 draft. Do I hope he proves us Curmudgeons wrong- of course. But he'll have to show it before we believe it. Gotten burned too many times to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-steals-2017-best-picks-grades-value-starters-immediate-impact-overall-cowboys-043017 Well at-least one guy seems to join you on the Kizer wagon. Sorta. And he thinks we got another steal in the draft so let's hope you both are correct. I saw an ESPN article but unless I paid money to subscribe I couldn't see past the 1st round. They picked Howard Hooker and Adams as the steals of the draft all of which we passed on. Time will tell if your buddies in the front office pulled off a coup. But for the record trading for more and more and more draft picks doesn't mean Jack shit until those draft picks are going to a probowl or at-least contributing on a high level. Like trading one bag of wheat seeds for 5 bags of rag weed seeds. But I see you are on Kizer's dick from the get go. So imagine the fun you will have gloating When he takes to the playoffs. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Seattle are one team that always trades down when they can. They seem to do ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Seattle are one team that always trades down when they can. They seem to do ok. If and when that works out for us great. Just for the record I don't think the draft has been what makes or breaks the Cleveland Browns it's the revolving door policy for coaching and front office. Shitcan half the team every 2 years-and start learning a Brand-new system. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 But it's been a tradition around here to list all the players we passed on when they go to the probowl. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 And I will be glad to eat Humble Pie if he is great... Done deal... you will be sentenced to "Thirty Days in the Hole". Just hope you "Don't Need No Doctor" at the end of your sentence... You would think Browns fans would be clamoring to get behind me... No offense, man, but it's not the best view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Done deal... you will be sentenced to "Thirty Days in the Hole". Just hope you "Don't Need No Doctor" at the end of your sentence... And can I stay in a Marriott hotel? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 If and when that works out for us great. Just for the record I don't think the draft has been what makes or breaks the Cleveland Browns it's the revolving door policy for coaching and front office. Shitcan half the team every 2 years-and start learning a Brand-new system. WSS I certainly understand why any Browns fan would have skepticism on all things draft. For me the way they're going is the right one I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 You would think Browns fans would be clamoring to get behind me, and others that thought like me, saying ..."wouldn't it be great if Zombo was right about this guy!" . Wouldn't it be nice if Zombo was right about this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 And can I stay in a Marriott hotel? WSS Yes, but it is now 6 feet under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I certainly understand why any Browns fan would have skepticism on all things draft. For me the way they're going is the right one I guess time will tell. Yes, for me this certainly is true. Nothing against Kizer or Garrett or anyone.....but they DO have to prove that they are not Courtney Brown Jr...in Garrett's case...or Brady Queen Jr in Kizer's case......or Justin Gilbert Jr....in Peppers case...and so on and so on. If Browns fans are skeptical....it is only a seed that has been cultivated by past performance. Expect the worst, hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-steals-2017-best-picks-grades-value-starters-immediate-impact-overall-cowboys-043017 Well at-least one guy seems to join you on the Kizer wagon. Sorta. And he thinks we got another steal in the draft so let's hope you both are correct. I saw an ESPN article but unless I paid money to subscribe I couldn't see past the 1st round. They picked Howard Hooker and Adams as the steals of the draft all of which we passed on. Time will tell if your buddies in the front office pulled off a coup. But for the record trading for more and more and more draft picks doesn't mean Jack shit until those draft picks are going to a probowl or at-least contributing on a high level. Like trading one bag of wheat seeds for 5 bags of rag weed seeds. But I see you are on Kizer's dick from the get go. So imagine the fun you will have gloating When he takes to the playoffs. WSS Yep, just like I was on Johnny's from the get go. As soon as he showed signs of not being committed to his craft or the organization, I dropped that dick in hurry ... But you stayed on that thing until completion, didn't ya? Hope it wasn't too hard to swallow. I'm excited we grabbed Kizer in the second round. We're gonna nail one of these one of these times ... Whether it is him or Kessler or Cockwhsitler ... After all we've been through, I'm ready to win, how bout you? Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 If you thought Kizer was the best of the bunch- I think you need glasses. For sure minority opinion- though I'll respect it. He got very little run predraft on the Board compared to the other three in the discussion, and about as much as Webb. Steve said it way better than I could. Yeah we got guys in the second round like Mohammad Massive Drop Massaquoi , Brian Slowbiski Robiski, Gregg Little production, Montario hardly played Hardesty- and a host of other bums. What a deal!!! Yes, I hope Sashi can do better than that horror list. TC didn't believe me, but I have a good feeling what the fan undercurrent is about Deshone. They cheered when Couch got hurt, and a fair percentage of fans aren't rolling out the welcome mat for Kizer. If Garrett, Peppers, and Njoku all pan out- Sashi is going to get a pass if he swung and missed on Deshone. It's already been pointed out in the media- the good thing being Kizer is one of the "Expendables" @ #52 should he suck, with a total contract a shade under $5 million. He'll have to show distinct signs of being "the guy" though for the Browns not to take a shot at one of the top QBs in the 2018 draft. Do I hope he proves us Curmudgeons wrong- of course. But he'll have to show it before we believe it. Gotten burned too many times to think otherwise. Yes, I thought Kizer was the best of the bunch. Don't need glasses, liked his size, arm and mobility versus the other guys who all had question marks too. Obviously league execs liked them other fellas a lot better. But maybe I nailed one ... We can dream. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Well... for once I'm with ya, Z... so for better or worse ya gots that goin' for ya... And can I stay in a Marriott hotel? Of course... there's a LIVE one right next to the Filmore East... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 This thread is just going in circles now. I move for a lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'm optimistic about the kid. but it's going to be weird if we pick a top QB in the draft next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 I thought Hue Jackson's comments about Kessler were pretty interesting. He basically said that Kessler has worked really hard and improved a lot, which kind of puzzled me. How much can a guy really improve in the offseason? Was Hue only talking about weight room stuff? I take what he said with a grain of salt, but still, it's worth noting that Kessler could improve and basically make taking the job from him nearly impossible. First and foremost, he doesn't turn the ball over that much, and he'll know the offense. That's the kind of head start that seems insurmountable to me. Even Kizer recently said that he has so far to go before he can even BEGIN to compete for the starting gig, and I felt that was an accurate statement. To make matters worse, Kizer has a tendency to "miss high" with his throws, and that will kill you in the NFL. I actually think Kizer is in a pretty good spot. He wasn't drafted in the first round, so the tangible pressure to start the kid immediately isn't as pervasive. If Kizer doesn't win the job in preseason, he won't be seen as a failure. It's funny how that works. I'll tell you this much: I feel a million times better about our QB group NOW then I did a year ago. Last year we were looking at RG III, McCown, and 3rd round rookie Kessler. *shudders* I'm NOT saying it looks MUCH better now, but at least we're a lot younger and we have more "potential" on the roster. I don't love Osweiler, but the guy did go to the damn playoffs the last two years with two team. And Kizer wasn't an "elite" prospect, but at least the kid as the physical tools needed. Oh, and we're A LOT YOUNGER. Did I mention younger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 How much can someone improve in the off season? Well, attempt heart surgery as you are now. Then come back after you've been through medical school. I trust the second to around will makes world's of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 How much can someone improve in the off season? Well, attempt heart surgery as you are now. Then come back after you've been through medical school. I trust the second to around will makes world's of difference. Med school takes longer than 5 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Med school takes longer than 5 months. Hello Captain literal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Hello Captain literaly. No, he's wargograw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 No, he's wargograw. Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 I thought Hue Jackson's comments about Kessler were pretty interesting. He basically said that Kessler has worked really hard and improved a lot, which kind of puzzled me. How much can a guy really improve in the offseason? In additional to any body sculpting you have to remember that Kess was the QB that participated in the WR workouts that Coleman organized this Spring. So the reps he got with our WR corps have jump started his familiarity with our WR Corps... AND... you know they were not simply tossing the ball around... play calls were being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 In additional to any body sculpting you have to remember that Kess was the QB that participated in the WR workouts that Coleman organized this Spring. So the reps he got with our WR corps have jump started his familiarity with our WR Corps... AND... you know they were not simply tossing the ball around... play calls were being made. Don't get me wrong, I'm desperate to believe it, LOL. I've been historically tough on Kessler in terms of him being a STARTING QB, but I've been coming around to the idea of drastically strengthening the team around him and seeing how he responds. The main reasons I was tough on Kessler is that I don't see him being able to increase his escapability, or ability to shake off an arm tackle. He goes down so easily. He really can't run any of the read-option plays that Hue Jackson loves, and that kind of hamstrings our offense a tiny bit. I'm pretty sure Kessler and Andy Dalton had similar speed times, but Dalton was very effective at running the read-option, and he completely torched our sorry asses a few times. Dalton also ran one of my favorite red zone plays well...the QB draw. I believe he ran it for at least one touchdown against us, probably more. But even though Kessler and Dalton probably had similar running times, Kessler looks slower to me. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe Kessler just didn't have the confidence to use his legs, but the ability to pick up some yards on the ground is extremely important for today's QB's...even if it's just to keep a defense honest and to pick up the occasional first down. The "X-Factor" with Kessler is how much, if any, he can improve. In my opinion, Kessler's "absolute highest ceiling if everything on earth goes right" is something like Drew Brees. Before you go nuts, I AM NOT SAYING Kessler will freaking be Brees. I'm just saying that's his highest ceiling in my opinion if everything goes perfect. They have similar size, they are both accurate QB's, and neither one really has "the gun" for an arm. I remember the knock on Brees was his down the field passing coming out of college. People wondered if he had the arm needed to consistently push the ball down the field. He was accurate as hell in the short to mid-range, but many questioned his deep ball passing. They don't question it anymore. Kessler has the advantage in our QB group because he knows the offense, knows most of the receivers, and he gets the ball out quickly without turning it over much. It's possible he can learn how to attack with the deep ball and take more chances. He will have to if he wants to succeed, as you can bet your ass opposing defenses will be trying their best to take away his preferred routes. This is why Kizer will have such a tough time beating him out. Kizer won't be familiar with the offensive language, the formations, the hot reads, the personnel, or the experience recognizing defenses. The speed of the game will be alien to him, and he has so much ground to make up if he wants to truly compete with Cody. The tricky part for Hue is, Kizer probably has a much higher ceiling than Kessler, and also has the raw, physical traits you can't coach. So do you go with the guy that will inevitably take his lumps and learn the hard way? Do you go with the guy that might not win as many games THIS year, but has the potential to be something great? Or do you go with the guy who might keep more games close, not turn it over, steal some wins, and run the offense more fluidly...BUT...probably doesn't have the same ceiling? I'm pretty sure I know the answer. Last year was tough on everyone, and that's putting it mildly. I think everyone in the franchise knew it'd be a tough year, but I don't think anyone really thought we'd struggle mightily just to win ONE game. After a year like that, I think you have to go with the guy that has the best chance to win games NOW. I'm not sure the coaching staff would survive another atrocious season...regardless of what our owner says. Right now, I'm betting it's Cody, but it's also freaking MAY, and we have a loooooong way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I hear ya, jigs... a couple thoughts sprung by your post... Running: While Kess' "top end" speed is far from breakaway, as measured at his Combine, his first steps and agility aren't bad. With a little more pocket presence, which can come with time, he has the potential to be elusive enough. No, he's never principally going to be a read-option QB... but neither is Dalton. It may surprise you the Kess' measurables bested Andy's in every timed event except the 3-cone... Here are their Combine 10/20/40, 20-yd Shuttle and 3-cone times; their jumps were virtually identical:Kess: 1.68/2.90/4.89; 4.00; 7.32 Andy: 1.77/2.89/4.93; 4.27; 6.93... one of these things is not like the others... Run/Pass Option: I think the above shows Hue can run Kess enough to make a D conscious of the run and set up the read option pass. This PAP variant will be a key addition to traditional play-action for shotgun looks, but both versions demand quicker decision making than Kess showed in 2016. Brees: Physically a good comparison, but Brees' "inner fire" as much as anything is what sets him apart. I don't sense anything approaching that in Kess. Trying very hard to come up with a Browns QB since Bernie in whom I have sensed that... Kizer: Yes... starting in an informational hole compared to Kess. My money is still on Cody to start the season... but Kizer to finish it. Ya gotta get a look at what you have. Last Year: What doesn't kill you... etc... Last point reminds me of a joke I recently saw somewhere of a headstone inscription... "... it didn't make me stronger." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Last point reminds me of a joke I recently saw somewhere of a headstone inscription... "... it didn't make me stronger." Best ever headstone inscription comes from a Latin class lesson- an old Roman Cemetery.... "Sum Quod Eris". I am what you will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Best ever headstone inscription comes from a Latin class lesson- an old Roman Cemetery.... "Sum Quod Eris". I am what you will be. I have a better one: from, appropriately: Tombstone Arizona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 My grandfather had a good one on a small wooden tombstone he kept in the kitchen. It read: Ma loved Pa Pa loved women Ma caught Pa with two in swimmin' Here lies Pa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 when am dead & in my grave. No more pussy shall I grave. let it be known millions of drinks went down my throat. just wish i had not croaked..RIP Gumby73...but the SS Browns Titanic will have rose to the Top again..All is Well that ends well (man i hope) how d 4377 upside down did a QB camp ever get here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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