Watson Undraftable

[miktoxic]

plenty of excuses being made for a weak armed QB lol. Someone will take a flyer on this kid i just hope its not us

 

until he's this years version of dak prescott. then u'll be eating your words like a greasy pizza box cover cuz it has cheese stuck to it.

 

PLLEEEEZZZ.

[LondonBrown]

Well....show us the data from "back through the years". It is something I have never seen.

It's on the same spreadsheet linked in the opening post?

[RoyceRolls]

Looking back through the years, of all the QBs deemed undraftable, the only ones who have shown any kind of Promise are Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott, although Prescott doesn't count because he was either injured or just coming off of injury when he was clocked.

 

So Tyrod Taylor is the only viable QB of the undraftables, which means that

a. Deshaun could be the 2nd decent undraftable QB

b. Watson becoming a legit franchise QB would be unprecedented.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Undraftable is a bit much admittedly. 3rd or later is a spot i've been at all year with watson. But with that low of throw speed you gotta wonder

[Flugel]

 

 

Colt McCoy won a lot of games at Texas. .

 

Can't let it go that Watson played on a great TEAM, huh? Final NCAA rankings- Clemson #1, North Carolina #43. Had NC beaten NC State, Clemson would have blown them out as badly in the conference championship as they did Ohio State in the playoff. Takes more than a great qb to make a great team. I would dare posit if you had put Trubisky on Clemson- the results would have been the same. How many of those guys besides Watson are going to get drafted? Williams first WR off the board?

 

NC record was worse in 2016 as opposed to 2015? Ever hear of graduation?

 

Come April, in all likelihood two North Carolina players are going to get their names called- Trubisky and Switzer, (late)

 

Let it go Tom- I already said Watson passes your eye test, just like Trubisky does mine. No need to "prove" anything. Clemson also beat Alabama on an illegal pick that they ran once before in the game. The refs throw the hanky, and your big winner just lost the game.

 

No one is arguing that Watson was a great college qb. But we're discussing pro potential here.

 

How about 1 FREAKING example of me ever typing I want the Browns to draft Watson in round 1? In fact, I have repeatedly typed I don't want a QB in round 1 of this draft. So who needs to let it go - me or the guy with a stinger between his thighs that makes the Levi's rise for Trubisky in round 1?

 

I've only posted I'd keep an open mind if we were to draft Watson in round 2 with all the reasons why.

 

The context of the discussion you showed up to is Caine does not think Watson is a great college QB. While he has told me in 2 different threads that Clemson's defense has carried Watson to 2 consecutive National Championship Games, the reality is Watson led Clemson to 41 and 35 points in successive National Championship Games against Bama (that's 76 points) while he also led them to 31 points over Ohio State. Those 2 defenses have more NFL prospects in them than any other teams. Meanwhile the only 2 games Clemson lost during Watson's 28-2 record were decided on the final seconds on days he led his offense to over 40 points vrs Pitt and Bama. If BIG TIME QB shows up in BIG TIME games, Boyd never got it done vrs Florida State to sell me that Boyd was as good. The ACC sucked back then while they had the best record in Bowl Games this year as well as the best record in out of conference play. We already had this entire debate previously but Caine was very disappointed that Watson looked like the best QB at the combine.

[CaineDeSoulis]

 

How about 1 FREAKING example of me ever typing I want the Browns to draft Watson in round 1? In fact, I have repeatedly typed I don't want a QB in round 1 of this draft. So who needs to let it go - me or the guy with a stinger between his thighs that makes the Levi's rise for Trubisky in round 1?

 

I've only posted I'd keep an open mind if we were to draft Watson in round 2 with all the reasons why.

 

The context of the discussion you showed up to is Caine does not think Watson is a great college QB. While he has told me in 2 different threads that Clemson's defense has carried Watson to 2 consecutive National Championship Games, the reality is Watson led Clemson to 41 and 35 points in successive National Championship Games against Bama (that's 76 points) while he also led them to 31 points over Ohio State. Those 2 defenses have more NFL prospects in them than any other teams. Meanwhile the only 2 games Clemson lost during Watson's 28-2 record were decided on the final seconds on days he led his offense to over 40 points vrs Pitt and Bama. If BIG TIME QB shows up in BIG TIME games, Boyd never got it done vrs Florida State to sell me that Boyd was as good. The ACC sucked back then while they had the best record in Bowl Games this year as well as the best record in out of conference play. We already had this entire debate previously but Caine was very disappointed that Watson looked like the best QB at the combine.

I'm wondering if you can even mention Watson without mentioning Clemsons record or Alabama? To my eyes Davis Webb had the better combine showing the bigger arm and the Better athleticism for a man of his size. Watson for a primarily read option QB did not show the athleticism of a Marcus Mariota or a RG3 THAT will be required to use that skill set in the NFL. He displayed great timing on outs/slants with adequate arm strength but his accuracy was poor at intermediate to deep MOST of the receivers needed to slow on those routes. His throws are indeed easier to catch and easier to defend against.

 

Boyd performed better Statistically in the same program 1 year removed. This is not an opinion this is a FACT.

 

In regards to Trubisky he has shown better "Pro" potential than Watson. Which is why MOST scouts have Trubisky Ranked higher.

Personally I like Davis Webb at the same spot as you like watson. but i would not be too disappointed trading back into the first round to secure Webb

 

Also I've repeatedly stated that Watson is in fact a Great college QB in the same vein as Mccoy or Tebow. Unfortunately a large portion of those skills will not transfer to the NFL

[Flugel]

I'm wondering if you can even mention Watson without mentioning Clemsons record or Alabama? To my eyes Davis Webb had the better combine showing the bigger arm and the Better athleticism for a man of his size. Watson for a primarily read option QB did not show the athleticism of a Marcus Mariota or a RG3 THAT will be required to use that skill set in the NFL. He displayed great timing on outs/slants with adequate arm strength but his accuracy was poor at intermediate to deep MOST of the receivers needed to slow on those routes. His throws are indeed easier to catch and easier to defend against.

 

Boyd performed better Statistically in the same program 1 year removed. This is not an opinion this is a FACT.

 

In regards to Trubisky he has shown better "Pro" potential than Watson. Which is why MOST scouts have Trubisky Ranked higher.

Personally I like Davis Webb at the same spot as you like watson. but i would not be too disappointed trading back into the first round to secure Webb

 

Also I've repeatedly stated that Watson is in fact a Great college QB in the same vein as Mccoy or Tebow. Unfortunately a large portion of those skills will not transfer to the NFL

 

It's also a fact that the ACC never had the best Bowl record of any conference or out of conference record until THIS year to the extent I don't care what Boyd's stats were in the ACC while his team stayed far less meaningful in the national rankings. You've hated that inconvenient response both times I gave it to you. Have we or have we not already had this entire discussion about Watson and Boyd in a previous thread?

 

You're like the only guy in cyberspace that feels compelled to chase someone around to make sure he understands Boyd was much better than Watson at Clemson. Unless you're Boyd or related to him, it's pretty creepy considering I haven't ever stated I want Watson in round 1. Again, I just think 28-2 when Clemson scored over 40 points in both of those losses plus 41 and 35 points vrs Bama as well as 31 on OSU is a much better reflection of Watson than you want/need it to be. I thought Boyd was good but he couldn't win the big one...

 

I do share your intrigue for Webb and have stated I'd prefer us to draft him later than going after a QB in round 1.

 

The last time I got lectured about what most of the scouts were supposedly thinking it was about how pro ready Brady Quinn was about 3 years before he was Tim Tebow's caddy the year Tebow threw the game winning TD pass against Puttsburgh in OT in the playoffs. Quinn was from Ohio just like Trubisky when he allegedly got all that scout love. Imagine that...

[CaineDeSoulis]

 

It's also a fact that the ACC never had the best Bowl record of any conference or out of conference record until THIS year to the extent I don't care what Boyd's stats were in the ACC while his team stayed far less meaningful in the national rankings. You've hated that inconvenient response both times I gave it to you. Have we or have we not already had this entire discussion about Watson and Boyd in a previous thread?

 

You're like the only guy in cyberspace that feels compelled to chase someone around to make sure he understands Boyd was much better than Watson at Clemson. Unless you're Boyd or related to him, it's pretty creepy considering I haven't ever stated I want Watson in round 1. Again, I just think 28-2 when Clemson scored over 40 points in both of those losses plus 41 and 35 points vrs Bama as well as 31 on OSU is a much better reflection of Watson than you want/need it to be. I thought Boyd was good but he couldn't win the big one...

 

I do share your intrigue for Webb and have stated I'd prefer us to draft him later than going after a QB in round 1.

 

So we both agree not to take watson in round one thats great.

 

The response is not inconvenient its just not as relevant as you seem to think. Its like saying Cardale Jones is good because he played at OSU and is from Cleveland.

 

Regardless i have Webb above Watson on my board, With such a great combine and MVP of the senior bowl.

[Flugel]

Looking back through the years, of all the QBs deemed undraftable, the only ones who have shown any kind of Promise are Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott, although Prescott doesn't count because he was either injured or just coming off of injury when he was clocked.

 

So Tyrod Taylor is the only viable QB of the undraftables, which means that

a. Deshaun could be the 2nd decent undraftable QB

b. Watson becoming a legit franchise QB would be unprecedented.

 

Donovan McNabb didn't get a ton of pre-draft love coming out of the Veer Option at Syracuse. Lucky for him Andy Reid remembered that Brett Favre played in a very similar offense at So Miss after he rusher for over 3,000 yards in his high school career. Our FO spent all it's time on Akili Smith and Tim Couch.

[gumby73]

Was Watson in a bad weather, strong wind game that might be telling?

Nope. friend of mine in SC told me he practiced on a wet turf only.But rain in SC usually brings lightning that Dabo would pull them off. Friend said Wet grass leads to wet ball but accuracy was same with a little more wobble here & there. Edit--But damn dudes 46 MPH with a 15 MPH head wind off the lake, the pigeons maybe throwing them back..

[Tour2ma]

Just noticed that the Bears gave $15mm/yr to a 49-mph QB...

 

london? isn't it burning? keep letting the muslims in assholes.

thanks. once again we have to fix your problems.

now tell me once again about anything american football.

 

Yeah... I gotta call over-the-top on that one, mik...

[Flugel]

So we both agree not to take watson in round one thats great.

 

The response is not inconvenient its just not as relevant as you seem to think. Its like saying Cardale Jones is good because he played at OSU and is from Cleveland.

 

Regardless i have Webb above Watson on my board, With such a great combine and MVP of the senior bowl.

 

Yes, we've now done this agreement about not wanting Watson in round 1 both times we had the exact same debate. As I told Hoorta again, I've typed I don't want Watson or any QB in round 1 numerous times.

 

Regarding your Cardale point, who's needing Trubisky to be good because he previously played QB in Ohio - me or you? Watson started a lot more games than Cardale or Trubisky right?

 

Regarding you rating Webb higher than Watson, what happened to what all the scouts think all of a sudden? BTW, Charlie Frye was also an MVP of the Senior Bowl AND he was from Ohio just like Brady Quinn was from Ohio way back when all the scouts told us how pro ready he was. Just busting your chops.

 

I've already seen there would never be an ounce of support for Watson here so I'm 100% with you in thinking Webb would be a better choice for us especially since he will be drafted later. Webb did impress me though. I liked his pocket presence and the way he looked off the Safety on the perfect strike he threw for a TD at the senior bowl.

[CaineDeSoulis]

I'll be honest webb has all the tools and i just have a gut feeling on this kid.

What i'm getting at is that it's as equally irrelevant as winning records Flug

[RoyceRolls]

 

Donovan McNabb didn't get a ton of pre-draft love coming out of the Veer Option at Syracuse. Lucky for him Andy Reid remembered that Brett Favre played in a very similar offense at So Miss after he rusher for over 3,000 yards in his high school career. Our FO spent all it's time on Akili Smith and Tim Couch.

I'm not concerned about the offense, just referencing the link in the op about deshaun's velocity. I've already said my piece about deshaun: in the 5th round? Sure. But a 220 lb running quarterback who has already had a torn ACL? A guy who doesn't have much velocity or accuracy? A poor decision maker who doesn't read the whole field? That's far too much for me to overlook, the skip bayless approach of "he was good in college, he will be good in the NFL" is how you end up projecting Manziel, Weeden, and Tebow as the next big thing.

[Flugel]

I'm not concerned about the offense, just referencing the link in the op about deshaun's velocity. I've already said my piece about deshaun: in the 5th round? Sure. But a 220 lb running quarterback who has already had a torn ACL? A guy who doesn't have much velocity or accuracy? A poor decision maker who doesn't read the whole field? That's far too much for me to overlook, the skip bayless approach of "he was good in college, he will be good in the NFL" is how you end up projecting Manziel, Weeden, and Tebow as the next big thing.

 

Royce, I like reading your input about the QBs. I think you're pretty fair and you don't get too caught up in where their from like Skip Bayless does as well. The previous knee injury is a big concern because those always have a way of coming back on guys like Jamaal Charles, Adrian Peterson and RG3.

 

Your point about Watson in round 5 is where I am with a lot of QBs in this draft, except they always go ahead of where they should so I'll have to decide where I find some of these guys acceptable after round 1. Depends on where the runs on them take place I suppose. Joe Montana wasn't accurate at all in college and he had a ho hum 10 TD passes to 9 INTs. The thing that really made him drop to round 3? Arm strength, so I'm not sure how accurate some of these assessments are especially when I watched which QB was best at throwing the out routes in Indy. Watson had lot of zip with perfect placement of football between WR and sideline. Mayock thinks he has good arm strength. Former QB & NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah said he had the best workout in Indy as did Charlie Casserly. Both said good zip and velocity on his passes. Having said all that, when it's live with defenses - mechanics change under improvise and I'm sure there's several examples of bad velocity.

 

I just don't see 1 QB that excites me for pick #1 or #12 in round 1, which REALLY sucks when we went 1-15 to be at #1. As for Trubisky, I'm not insulting a prospect when I say I think round 2 is a much more reasonable projection for a guy only 13 starts old but he played high school football in Mentor, OH so it goes over like a fart in church with some guys. Round 2 is where Favre, Brees and Derek Carr went. In the end, which of these prospects can handle the situation in Cleveland best? Probably a guy that doesn't have to start right away, which this draft seems full of. So, which ones won't get Blake Bortled up where they don't belong? Webb seems polarizing but there looks to be a lot of goodies and a resume of starting in 2 different college offenses with pretty good completion percentages as a reasonable starting point for a 6-5 prospect with the pocket presence he displayed at the Senior Bowl. Going this route can enable the FO to work on making this an easier to play QB with what they put in place around him and limiting points on the other side of the ball giving a QB some margin of error to work with...

[Flugel]

I'll be honest webb has all the tools and i just have a gut feeling on this kid.

 

What i'm getting at is that it's as equally irrelevant as winning records Flug

 

I'm with you on Webb and the college QB record thing (ie Steve Walsh, Matt Leinart, Andre Ware, David Klingler, RG3, VY).

 

My whole context of Watson has never involved round 1 as much as it's been keeping an open mind about Watson if we draft him after that as early as round 2. If he's Blake Bortle'd up to round 1 - it better be an ideal situation and Cleveland is not it. No different than how I feel with Trubisky, it's just that he has some fans in here that want to go to battle against anyone that doesn't see him as a first round pick here.

[RoyceRolls]

I'm with ya flugs, and I was being a little cantankerous with the 5th rd projection. there is a lot to like about Watson, but also a lot of question marks, but that can be said for all the QB prospects in this class.

[hoorta]

 

I'm with you on Webb and the college QB record thing (ie Steve Walsh, Matt Leinart, Andre Ware, David Klingler, RG3, VY).

 

My whole context of Watson has never involved round 1 as much as it's been keeping an open mind about Watson if we draft him after that as early as round 2. If he's Blake Bortle'd up to round 1 - it better be an ideal situation and Cleveland is not it. No different than how I feel with Trubisky, it's just that he has some fans in here that want to go to battle against anyone that doesn't see him as a first round pick here.

 

Tom, I wish you wouldn't take that as "battling". I'll fully agree after the velocity issue came out I would drop Watson to day three. Others have pointed out what they don't like about him, so I'm not going to repeat that stuff. LOL, from the other side of the fence, it sure looks like you're defending Watson to the death, and now well- he's not first round material. Gee, I happen to agree. If you don't see Trubisky as first round material that's fine, plenty of others do.

 

Whether or not Mitch is worthy of the #12 (or a trade up) isn't something I'm going to decide. I hope you noticed I've change my mind, and gone with the majority opinion Garrett is the guy we should draft @ #1. As I've said, the NFL has a first round grade on Trubisky- so do me and Gip. We've put our money where our mouths are too- we have drinks and dinner bets going that he's going to get taken in the top 10. Care to join the naysayers in that bet? Am I going to be brokenhearted if we go all defense in the first round? Hardly.

 

That Mitch is a local kid is coloring my judgement- to an extent. If you've noticed, there's several guys here who have seen him since High School and are as convinced as I am that he's the real deal. Sorry, can't help it, I like what I see. I sure was adamant I didn't want anything to do with Ohio kid and boyhood Browns fan Brady Quinn. I'm also on record Toledo native DeShone Kizer is another Quinn just waiting to happen.

[ballpeen]

I couldn't draft any QB high in round 1. If we grab one in the 1st, trade up from 33 to maybe 25.

[jcam222]

Looking back through the years, of all the QBs deemed undraftable, the only ones who have shown any kind of Promise are Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott, although Prescott doesn't count because he was either injured or just coming off of injury when he was clocked.

 

So Tyrod Taylor is the only viable QB of the undraftables, which means that

a. Deshaun could be the 2nd decent undraftable QB

b. Watson becoming a legit franchise QB would be unprecedented.

You can add Glennon since he just got a nice deal with da Bears. Overall though there are very few guys starting with velocity less than 53. You have to wonder if there is some kind of error?? I mean if he knew his velocity was that low wouldnt he have been advised not to throw?

[Westside Steve]

I couldn't draft any QB high in round 1. If we grab one in the 1st, trade up from 33 to maybe 25.

Can't imagine why you would do that unless the quarterback you really really wanted all along slipped that far. Hard to see that happening no?

 

WSS

[RoyceRolls]

You can add Glennon since he just got a nice deal with da Bears. Overall though there are very few guys starting with velocity less than 53. You have to wonder if there is some kind of error?? I mean if he knew his velocity was that low wouldnt he have been advised not to throw?

Tyrod may not have set the world on fire over the last two seasons, but he won 15 of his 29 starts and threw 37 TDs to 12 INTs. Glennon getting a new contract isn't enough for me to put him up there with Tyrod just yet.

[Flugel]

I couldn't draft any QB high in round 1. If we grab one in the 1st, trade up from 33 to maybe 25.

 

I hear ya Ballpeen.

[Flugel]

 

Tom, I wish you wouldn't take that as "battling". I'll fully agree after the velocity issue came out I would drop Watson to day three. Others have pointed out what they don't like about him, so I'm not going to repeat that stuff. LOL, from the other side of the fence, it sure looks like you're defending Watson to the death, and now well- he's not first round material. Gee, I happen to agree. If you don't see Trubisky as first round material that's fine, plenty of others do.

 

Whether or not Mitch is worthy of the #12 (or a trade up) isn't something I'm going to decide. I hope you noticed I've change my mind, and gone with the majority opinion Garrett is the guy we should draft @ #1. As I've said, the NFL has a first round grade on Trubisky- so do me and Gip. We've put our money where our mouths are too- we have drinks and dinner bets going that he's going to get taken in the top 10. Care to join the naysayers in that bet? Am I going to be brokenhearted if we go all defense in the first round? Hardly.

 

That Mitch is a local kid is coloring my judgement- to an extent. If you've noticed, there's several guys here who have seen him since High School and are as convinced as I am that he's the real deal. Sorry, can't help it, I like what I see. I sure was adamant I didn't want anything to do with Ohio kid and boyhood Browns fan Brady Quinn. I'm also on record Toledo native DeShone Kizer is another Quinn just waiting to happen.

 

Larry, we go back a long way. I don't mind that you like Trubisky. Just read/listen to why some people defend other QBs without feeling offended.

 

Reality is Atenears went to Mentor High School and he even likes Trubisky but understands Cleveland isn't ready for him as high as #1 or #12 overall. Mud said he is from an adjacent community and as much as he likes Trubisky, he said he is clearly not the answer to all OUR prayers here.

 

When we have the #1 or #12 overall pick after finishing 1-15 don't you think I'd love to see the solution at QB on our doorstep?

 

I don't want us to take Watson at all. I'm not going to spend the next 3 years like I spent the first 3 years on defending Tim Couch here especially when nobody wants him enough to welcome. The year we clinched the playoffs on the day Holcomb took over for a injured Tim Couch - our home crowd cheered while Couch laid motionless on the field with a neck/shoulder injury. That's what wanting any QB in the first round is signing up for. I don't have enough evidence on any QB to sign up for that.

 

As for Watson, I just think people go out of their way to look for weaknesses, Last I heard, he has all the same pre-draft concerns Joe Montana supposedly had. You saw the combines, where did he suck specifically? If he's white, there's no such thing as he can only be RG4. I'm fine with people not wanting him in round 1 any more than I do but some of this criticism is unfounded when Mayock, Jeremiah and Casserly said he has a strong arm at the combines. I agreed as did Tour but??????

 

Having said that Dan Fouts looked terrible in wind chills far below zero at Cincy in the post season just like Sipe did against Oakland in similar conditions vrs Oakland at home in Cleveland,which makes remembering the importance of a reliable running game important in a Great Lake state such as Ohio.

[Tour2ma]

If this much emphasis is going to be placed on a radar gun reading, the NFL ought to take control of the measurement process.

[TexasAg1969]

If this much emphasis is going to be placed on a radar gun reading, the NFL ought to take control of the measurement process.

 

LOL-and I'm still keeping him as my "Dak" pick for this year.

[LBC mike]

He is a gamer. Played agAinst best college defenses and came out with clutch wins when needed.

[tiamat63]

He is a gamer. Played agAinst best college defenses and came out with clutch wins when needed.

Kiper, is that you?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

What the fuck is your problem all of a sudden?

 

All of a sudden?

[LondonBrown]

 

All of a sudden?

I've spoken to him often on here before without any ill feeling.