choco Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 OK... sub Solomon for Marshon and call it "point made"... Seems extra crazy this year. I'm not sure I'm going to make it draft day before my head explodes... Nah, I'm an idiot. Read lattimore, thought fournette.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Edit: I just watched some highlights of Watson, and while I understand "highlights" aren't exactly a good representation of a player's ability, the film did at least show multiple throws with plenty of zip. Obviously I don't have a radar gun app for Youtube, but I can tell you the arm definitely passes the "eye test". Conversely, I did notice several throws that Watson kind of "lollypops" up in the air, but these were deep throws that enabled his receiver to get underneath. Whenever I saw a throw over the middle, the ball got there promptly. Deep lollypops take arm strength, too. Strength is not necessarily the same thing as velocity (quick twitch vs. slow twitch), but if I had to pick between them, then I think I go for strength. I wonder what Watson's effective range is... certainly 50-yds... probably 55... 60? The other warning sign would be at what distance does his accuracy start to fall apart. Straining for distance (or velocity) hurts accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 http://www.wbir.com/mb/news/local/ut-freshman-does-the-math-behind-the-vols-perfect-play-vs-georgia/328445390 Got interested in Dobbs' velocity and found this story. If you do the math, Dobbs is at least capable of 54mph haha. Might have only been on one play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Word out of Clemson's Pro-Day is Watson killed it... Here's Mayock's report: Some year this QB shit will be easy for us, but ain't looking like it'll be 2017... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted March 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/842424217136164865?ref_src=twsrc%5EtfwMatt Millers take"Hearing a lot of inconsistent comments from scouts at the Clemson pro day on Watson. Think it depends on if you liked him prior" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Seems about right... Daniel JeremiahVerified account @MoveTheSticks Scout at Clemson on Watson's day: Average day. Inconsistent timing/placement...solid on deep ball. It was a B-/C+ type workout. https://twitter.com/movethesticks/status/842402207060262912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Once heard that Manziel's proday was one of the best ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Once heard that Manziel's proday was one of the best ever seen. Yep........ and he even wore a helmet too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Yep........ and he even wore a helmet too! And pads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Word out of Clemson's Pro-Day is Watson killed it... Here's Mayock's report: Some year this QB shit will be easy for us, but ain't looking like it'll be 2017... Word is that others didn't think it was all that and a bag of chips. From the Akron Beacon Journal: Watson received mixed reviews for his pro day throwing session. NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said on the air Watson had a "very impressive workout." NFL Network analyst Daniel Jeremiah tweeted that a scout at Clemson's pro day told him Watson's timing and placement were inconsistent but his deep throws were solid. "It was a B-/C+ type workout," the scout told Jeremiah. Watson completed 54-of-62 passes, according to the Associated Press. He also took snaps under center, something he'll need to adjust to in the NFL after operating out of the shotgun in Clemson's spread offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Word is that others didn't think it was all that and a bag of chips. From the Akron Beacon Journal: I doubt any of them will be all that or a bag a chips.......a well below average group of prospects.....so Id expect many ho hum reports to be forth coming..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 I doubt any of them will be all that or a bag a chips.......a well below average group of prospects..... Agreed! No matter how ugly a QB class is, there's always beneficiaries getting drafted way up ahead of where they should go.Right Jamarcus? Jamarcus? Heaven help me, I'm about to quote Mel Kiper but blind squirrel finds this nut with - "beware late/last minute risers." We almost took Akili Smith so we could speak fluent trailer park Shakespeare in Cleveland. Instead, we drafted Tim Couch without a willingness to make Cleveland an easier place to play QB. Poor Alex Smith had to feel like a serial coach killer for about 4-5 years before former NFL QB Jim Harbaugh showed up with an understanding of what was needed to increase Alex's passer ratings up into the 90s. Like last year or in 2014, sometimes it's just better to see what's available at QB after round 1. The priority should be to make this an easier place to play QB. For example, when we choose to kick off first - it might be a good idea to have enough talent on defense to prevent us from being down 7-0 just 2 minutes later. Go get em Kess! "Kess, am I holding up 1 or 2 fingers?" 4. "Close, you're doing great kid. Where are you?" I think I just took on ISIS without any binoculars, bullets or protection. "Thatta boy - you're still breathing kid. You remind us of Colt McCoy. You'll be ready to get right back out there in a play or 2." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Agreed! No matter how ugly a QB class is, there's always beneficiaries getting drafted way up ahead of where they should go.Right Jamarcus? Jamarcus? Heaven help me, I'm about to quote Mel Kiper but blind squirrel finds this nut with - "beware late/last minute risers." Damn straight....beware last minute risers.............add to that : beware drafting shitty QB's because you're desperate..... Just saying......we all need a great QB to win......but just picking one because you're hard up does not resolve the need..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 It's like having not so good looking girls at a high school dance. the okay looking one looks like a 10 when she is a 6. Everyone wants to dance with the 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 It's like having not so good looking girls at a high school dance. the okay looking one looks like a 10 when she is a 6. Everyone wants to dance with the 6. exactly..... and then you marry the 6 and go out into the world and realize what a dog she really is......especially when you see her matched up against everyone else with their 10.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 thats kinda the point of this thread lol not drafting a 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 thats kinda the point of this thread lol not drafting a 6 I hope the FO reads it then.... Cause we have a roster FULL of 6's.....drafted a bunch last year too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 It's like having not so good looking girls at a high school dance. the okay looking one looks like a 10 when she is a 6. Everyone wants to dance with the 6. Some of you hear would pass up Gina Lollabrigida because your brains want to tell you that she looked like Phyllis Diller. (now...you gotta be old school for this reference) To translate...what you think may be a 6 could turn out to be a 10. And what you think is a 10 could turn out to be a 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 I hope the FO reads it then.... Cause we have a roster FULL of 6's.....drafted a bunch last year too..... wow Mud your usually the voice of reason on giving rookies more time... :\ I still find it difficult to judge our defensive talent based on how BADLY our defense was coached. But there were flashes that i think a competent coach can capitalize on. Hue also performed poorly as well but hopefully with this co-coaching situation they seemed to have set up he can refocus his efforts on the whole of the offense and not just on RG3 lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 wow Mud your usually the voice of reason on giving rookies more time... :\ I still find it difficult to judge our defensive talent based on how BADLY our defense was coached. But there were flashes that i think a competent coach can capitalize on. Hue also performed poorly as well but hopefully with this co-coaching situation they seemed to have set up he can refocus his efforts on the whole of the offense and not just on RG3 lol. Yep. I'm excited to see what happens with Williams as DC. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 wow Mud your usually the voice of reason on giving rookies more time... :\ I still find it difficult to judge our defensive talent based on how BADLY our defense was coached. But there were flashes that i think a competent coach can capitalize on. Hue also performed poorly as well but hopefully with this co-coaching situation they seemed to have set up he can refocus his efforts on the whole of the offense and not just on RG3 lol. Im happy to give them time....and hope some will emerge.....even with poor coaching, talent shows with great players.....collins and Kirksey shined....so you can see players when theyre there... So...here's a lil rant on that.....consider it a happy rant tho.... I wish we could stop blaming terrible play on the coaching scheme year after year.....talent wins...and we are short on talent I always base my comments on what I "see".....so if a guy plays GREAT...I say "he plays great".....and if a guy does nothing or plays poorly, I say "he did nothing and played poorly"..... And, unfortunately, many folks here take that observation and turn it in to "mud says this guy sucks and will never be a good player"....when Ive really only said Ive seen nothing yet..... And I do the same with the draft.....every year there are a NUMBER of players selected who stand out and are stars from day one......and there nare many many players who start and play WELL from day one..... So, when our picks are devoid of those performances....and we dont get the star(ever).....and barely get a starter or 2?......then I consider what "i see" to be not impressive.......ESPECIALLY when our team had a RECORD 14 PICKS..... So....yeah Ill wait....give it time.....and I have never "condemned" this draft,....Ive just said there is nothing there(yet) thats says "good to great" draft(and there usually is with most "great" drafts)...... no stars, no stand outs, dominant, flashy or all pro's....and with #2 and 13 others, I expected some of that<<<<<<<<<<<<<< so, while "waiting" for those players to arrive(story of our lives guys...right?)...Ima grade based upon performance , what I see....the tangible..... And....so far.....just waiting....(not condemning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 I saw plenty of flash this year Mud. in fact MOST of our draft picks had moments where you can see why we drafted them. Nassib looked like a strong pick until he broke his hand and was basically never the same. except he still could bat passes down oddly lol. Ogbah came on very strong towards the end of the year, Kessler was by FAR the best QB on this team and remains the best QB on this team. Louis has alot of potential in his physical abilities but underwhelmed. Higgins looked very sure handed with what limited we saw of him. Payton plays MUCH bigger than he is i actually thought he was closer to 6'4" than him only being 6'1". Devalve started putting it together late in the year. Coleman looked impressive in game 2 then broke his hand and wasnt the same after that.TWO of our top 3 picks suffered broken hands last season an injury that neither of them have had to deal with before.Schobert i was disappointed with the fire is there but he needs to get stronger/faster. Jamar Taylor performed Well last year as well. Scooby got released basically, Trey Caldwell Got Released, Kindred got put on IR but was starting to look good. Drango/Coleman have a bigger learning curve than most coming from those spread offenses so we did not get to see much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Ok, Ill bite..... I dont necessarily disagree with some of your view, but again, there were tiny snippets ,,,but nothing more.....which isnt enough to say any were great picks yet....I dont know what we are debating here.... I saw plenty of flash this year Mud. in fact MOST of our draft picks had moments where you can see why we drafted them. Look, thats fine....but almost ALL players have m,oments.....even the ones we cut....that's why they're in the NFL.....good/great players have more than that... Nassib looked like a strong pick until he broke his hand and was basically never the same. except he still could bat passes down oddly lol. Honest assessment....Nassib had 1 ok game....3 tackles, including a freebe sack.....then vanished for the rest of the year. He clearly healed and played a bunch and there is more than enough tape to show he needs to improve A LOT to be good....bulk up, learn a few moves, etc...... Ogbah came on very strong towards the end of the year, Yes he did, Ive been very supportive of his play and think he performed the best....by far....of all our rookies. But, compared to the rest of the league, he wasnt considered much of a standout.....which is my main point... Kessler was by FAR the best QB on this team and remains the best QB on this team. Which, again, isnt saying much......considering the Browns are outspoken about their desperation to find a QB. If Kessler was it, dont you think they'd promote that? Louis has alot of potential in his physical abilities but underwhelmed. Underwhelmed.....exactly....nothing to hang our hat on...just hope Higgins looked very sure handed with what limited we saw of him. Another underwhelming.....hence our continued search for WR and paying 17 million guaranteed to an 8 year journeyman... Payton plays MUCH bigger than he is i actually thought he was closer to 6'4" than him only being 6'1". Bigger than what??.....1 catch 3yards.....Im supposed to be impressed? call this a great pick?....isnt he suspended too?.....ugh Devalve started putting it together late in the year. Yes he did. A great pick?....or only ok?......again, no issues with Devalve....hope he evolves into someone we someday call a GREAT pick.....right now, average player at best.... Coleman looked impressive in game 2 then broke his hand and wasnt the same after that Just like Nassib.....1 good game.....Coleman missed all of preseason.....then had 2 zeroi games and 1 good game....then missed a bunch of games (again).....then played half a season and was completely underwhelming......a disappointing season for our first round pick and certainly not I had in mind when we entered that draft with the #2..... Can he get better?.....of course......but, SO FAR, does that look like a great pick?....nope.TWO of our top 3 picks suffered broken hands last season an injury that neither of them have had to deal with before. So?....they both came back and played less than great....so thats all we can judge, right?.....lets hope they live upto their lofty draft status next year, eh?.....as soon as he plays great, I will say "wow, he played great"......Schobert i was disappointed with the fire is there but he needs to get stronger/faster. Disappointing....yep.... Jamar Taylor performed Well last year as well. Taylor wasnt a draft pick.... Scooby got released basically, Yep. Yet another underwhelming disappointment....how many is that so far? Trey Caldwell Got Released, Yep...ditto.... Kindred got put on IR but was starting to look good. Kindred showed some good tackling and decent run support, but is basically a clone with Campbell....who also flashed as a rookie.....but both have shown they cannot cover well....hence our perceived need to draft safety Drango Drango did pretty well.....no issues here....like the pick /Coleman Was invisible....injured....came in following surgery.....all understandable WHY he didnt play, but certainly cant grade this pick an A, when there is no production.....so, based upon what Ive seen so far....nothing impressive to report.... have a bigger learning curve than most coming from those spread offenses so we did not get to see much. So...there you go.....14 picks and none are "over whelming"....most underwhelming......it's just the truth....not being mean....just honest and forthright.. Doesnt mean you cant hope....and support them.....and just adjust your grade as you go..... Hopefully A BUNCH of these guys get better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 What about boody Calhoun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Thats an incredibly Jaded look at it Mud. If your grades dont take into account circumstance or motor then your grades are not reflective of previous statements.We drafted on Potential and college pedigree which is a fine plan. ask the cowboys or the seahawks because is the exact same way they draft and pick up UDFA'sRegardless and back to the topic at HandWatson showed that he was atleast more athletic than most NFL QB's but on tape his arm strength comes to the for front. None of his passes have the same level of zip that Mahomes or Trubisky or Webb have. I'm really hoping he gets drafted early just to take away the chance of us being saddled with him for next couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Thats an incredibly Jaded look at it Mud. If your grades dont take into account circumstance or motor then your grades are not reflective of previous statements. We drafted on Potential and college pedigree which is a fine plan. ask the cowboys or the seahawks because is the exact same way they draft and pick up UDFA's Regardless and back to the topic at Hand Watson showed that he was atleast more athletic than most NFL QB's but on tape his arm strength comes to the for front. None of his passes have the same level of zip that Mahomes or Trubisky or Webb have. I'm really hoping he gets drafted early just to take away the chance of us being saddled with him for next couple of years. I've said it before Watson is RG IV with a weaker arm. (and that's just traits, not skin color) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 I've said it before Watson is RG IV with a weaker arm. (and that's just traits, not skin color) RG3 was a much much better athlete than watson and its really a disservice to RG3 to make that comparison. You need to find a weak armed QB with high character but athletic abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Christian Ponder is the best comparisonPonder and Watson are both the same size. ponder was roughly 8 pounds heavier for the combine.both sported a high INT Percentage. Both had the same size arms and same ball velocity 49mph and 51mph respectively.40yd dash Watson 4.66 Ponder 4.65Vertical Watson 32.5 Ponder 34.0Broad Jump Watson 119.0 Ponder 116.03 Cone Watson 6.95 Ponder 6.8520yd Shuttle Watson 4.31 Ponder 4.09Frankly his Marcus Mariota comp on nfl.com is a ridiculous comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 I've said it before Watson is RG IV with a weaker arm. (and that's just traits, not skin color) I'd still like to know how many 1 year starters in major division 1 college football went on to become a savior for an NFL franchise in our situation. If you're already looking for every excuse under the sun why Trubisky lost both of his only 2 starts you watched, please enlighten me how Cleveland becomes Easy Street for the lad in 2017? When I watched the combines, I didn't see a QB throw better passes during the out routes than Watson. And when they threw deep balls, the guy who explained the drill stopped it to remind the QBs he wanted them putting air under the throws rather than firing them with heat. it was a drill to measure how well a Qb can fit in his throw in anticipation of where he projects the receiver to be. The best 2 in that drill Trubisky and Watson. I don't remember seeing Watson throw the soft knuckle balls all day to be quite honest. Then again, when the WRs were running from sideline to sideline catching passes from QBs on both sides of them -maybe that could have been the drill the Mitch L fan club wants to celebrate in the after math. I do remember Jeremiah, Mayock and Casserly all saying Watson showed a strong arm at the combines. I thought I also read that Tour was most impressed by Watson. And when you were church mouse quiet after the combines, I'm guessing he looked better than you hoped he would as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Christian Ponder is the best comparison Ponder and Watson are both the same size. ponder was roughly 8 pounds heavier for the combine. both sported a high INT Percentage. Both had the same size arms and same ball velocity 49mph and 51mph respectively. 40yd dash Watson 4.66 Ponder 4.65 Vertical Watson 32.5 Ponder 34.0 Broad Jump Watson 119.0 Ponder 116.0 3 Cone Watson 6.95 Ponder 6.85 20yd Shuttle Watson 4.31 Ponder 4.09 Frankly his Marcus Mariota comp on nfl.com is a ridiculous comparison You mean this wasn't a track star trying to play a WildDawg/Kent State QB position from a shot gun all this time? So where are we on 1 year college starters acing their NFL rookie gig? I get it. Trubisky played high school football in Mentor, Ohio but let's not act like Watson is the only prospect with flaws. Charlie Frye grew up in Ohio wishing he could play for the Browns some day too. He was even the MVP of the Senior Bowl before he learned what it was like to play QB for the Cleveland Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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