Jonathan Paul Manziel

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

ugh. really?

 

hey all you johnny fans ya gotta pony up again next year. lol!

 

he'll look great in silver/grey/brown and orange.....HA!

 

I don't buy jerseys.

 

I have my five jerseys of players that are no longer on the team, thank you very much.

[Kvoethe]

Espn scroll:

 

Browns OT Joe Thomas says Manziel being a good rookie so far in keeping his mouth shut. Rookies should be seen and not heard.

 

 

Rofl Joe Thomas, Great soundbyte.

[Taco918]

Espn scroll:

 

Browns OT Joe Thomas says Manziel being a good rookie so far in keeping his mouth shut. Rookies should be seen and not heard.

 

 

Rofl Joe Thomas, Great soundbyte.

Was that last part supposed to be a pun? If not it should've been.

[The Cysko Kid]

Do yourself a favor and read the SI article about the draft. The experts were very iffy on Johnny and there is a reason he was still available at 22, just like Quinn and Weeden were. And when Cleveland drafted them, they thought they got a steal then too!

The experts thought jamarcus Russell and Ryan leaf were going to be awesome

[hoorta]

And then the proper vet WRs, Austin, Bennett & Burleson. Not exactly studs (that's why they were FAs still available in April/May), but Outside of Gordon, our WRs were awful last year. These guys are most likely an upgrade over Little, Benjamin & Bess.

 

Tom Brady proved if the qb is good enough it doesn't matter who the wrs are.

 

 

Dude, you're smarter than this.

 

ESPN is the McDonalds of Sports Analysis and Coverage and plays down to the lowest common denominator of sports fans. RG3 was insanely marketable and had some of the best TV ratings in 2012 and it carried over in 2013. That's the job of the national media to feed their titan markets (Lebron, A-Rod, Yankees, Lakers, Manning, etc)

 

The National Spotlight will NEVER give Gilbert equal press because Johnny Manziel is one of the most hyped, covered, and popular players EVER. He pulls ratings and revenue by the millions so what the hell exactly do you want ESPN to talk about.? Didn't MATTER where Manziel was going, the circus was following him to town wherever he went.

 

...and by the way Hoorta, for a guy that isn't real high on Manziel and all the hype, you sure are counter-productive because you do talk about him more than ANYONE and bring more heat to his stories in the threads. Just ignore it if you don't like the hype.

 

Walter- I hope you realize Manziel also has a significant minority out there that can't stand him. & please don't put me in that category post draft.

 

There isn't any controversy/fame with Gilbert.

 

The media thrives on controversy, and what's hot to get ratings.

 

Weird how that one 7th round player gets so much attention, whereas so many other terrific players don't. Why, I thought it was all about football....

 

Actually, I knew better with the media.

 

Terrific is boring. Flamboyant, and/or controversial in some way, tends to boost ratings.

 

I'm sick of it, too.

 

Seems like the lowest common denominator fo TV viewers keeps getting lower every year Mike.

 

its baffling to me that hoyer automatically gets the job. He played decent in those 3 games, not amazing. 3 games should never solidify a starting spot. They should let the quarterbacks compete. Hoyers resume is nothing special so far in his career, if he beats out manziel by looking better than him im ok with that. But to tell johnny to act like a backup is bad. All backups should be preparing like they are starters.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000352635/article/farmer-hoyer-tops-manziel-by-substantial-margin

[Westside Steve]

The point is that there is a reason Johnny was there at 22. Can't you see that? Do you honestly believe that the team that has done THE worst job of drafting and performing for the past 40 years is really smarter than the rest of the NFL world?

 

Why not be excited but contain the boasting and trash talking until the organization and the new QB actually do something?

That makes sense. I try to counsel Browns fans not to smack talk about the Pittsburgh Steelers until we have swept them one season. Still, that being said, fuck the Pittsburgh Steelers and the pigs they rode in on.

 

An Hoorta there are plenty of haters. There were guys rooted for the Browns to lose so Bill Belichick would be fired. I've seen guys wearing Miami and Dallas jerseys.

WSS

[tml1138]

People can't seem to get it through their heads that this is a new FO with many new players. There's no reason to think the Browns will suck again based on past events by people who are no longer around. The worst decisions of the past personnel have been taken care of.

 

However that being said, talk is cheap, prove it on the field.

 

As for the constant changes, well the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

 

And since when have the Browns done the worst job drafting and performing for the past 40 years? Besides that's the magic number in the stories of the Bible, so I guess it's time for it to come to an end.

[tml1138]

 

People can't seem to get it through their heads that this is a new FO with many new players. There's no reason to think the Browns will suck again based on past events by people who are no longer around. The worst decisions of the past personnel have been taken care of. True.....but there is also no reason to believe that a group of people with zero experience will succeed.

 

Then I guess we are at a draw until we see how this season unfolds. But you can't expect a trip right to the SB first year out with new people either. Haslam was misdirected and on a learning curve his first time out as a sole NFL owner. He quickly uprighted the ship before it sunk, IMO. I don't expect non-Browns fans to see a difference in the changes, but you can be certain Browns fans feel the difference this time. Again, not expecting super-stardom right out of the gates.

 

However that being said, talk is cheap, prove it on the field. Exactly

 

As for the constant changes, well the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

 

And since when have the Browns done the worst job drafting and performing for the past 40 years? Besides that's the magic number in the stories of the Bible, so I guess it's time for it to come to an end. Since the 1970 merger, which is just a point of reference no more no less, the Browns have the worst record and have drafted the highest (they might be second worst). Certainly true for the last 15 years.

 

Ok then. I'll accept a statement of the past 15 years (even if it might not be completely accurate, but you even admitted maybe second worst), but not 40 years as that's just wrong.

 

[Tour2ma]

Sorry... can't edit the quotes so they separate... Microsoft strikes again...

i want johnny football because i want to see our qb taunt the opponent, make the money sign in ben rothelisburgers face and take a shit on andy daltons head

Because that's what it takes to win division games?

 

I think there is a serious lack of talent on the Browns offense. Its not just a QB problem. The good thing is you dont need need many points with the Browns D. A guy like Manziel can get you that last game winning drive.

Your whole premise screams for a game manager at QB... and that ain't JM...

its baffling to me that hoyer automatically gets the job. He played decent in those 3 games, not amazing. 3 games should never solidify a starting spot. They should let the quarterbacks compete. Hoyers resume is nothing special so far in his career, if he beats out manziel by looking better than him im ok with that. But to tell johnny to act like a backup is bad. All backups should be preparing like they are starters.
[/quote/]

Hoyer has not "automatically gotten the job". He is simply the current #1 QB on the depth chart. Pattine has said the starting job will be a competition. Also said Manziel was "inconsistent" at yesterday's OTA and that was understandable because the system is so new to him. Farmer said that at this point Hoyer is far ahead.
"... Farmer said on Bull & Fox that Hoyer is the better quarterback 'by a substantial margin'."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/21/ray-farmer-hoyer-is-better-than-manziel-by-a-substantial-margin/

But that's as of now... long time till Sept.

Tough Division? If you have been watching TV, national commentators no longer consider the AFCN a "tough" division.
Ravens and Steelers are considered mediocre or below. There is really not much respect for the Bengals even though they are defending division champs. The Browns seem to be the most interesting and exciting team, with as much talent as any other, but haven't learned how to win.

Yup... Most early Vegas lines and many other sources project the AFCN as a whole to be mediocre with our "champion" winning 9 games and the other 3 teams at 8-8 or 7-9.

 

 

 

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Sorry... can't edit the quotes so they separate... Microsoft strikes again...

 

 

 

You can't multiquote the responses?

[MasterDog]

Boy, this thread is one big Cluster Fock. The chain of events that's happening is very very concerning. It is not the type of start you see for a QB that's going to be a star in this league.

 

Let's examine this.

 

1) Manziel was bypassed by the Browns twice.

2) A projected top 10 pick that went into a complete free fall. If it wasn't for Cleveland, god knows where he would had ended up.

3) Report is, Bridgewater was on the name of the card for the 22nd pick but only changed in the last second because of a Manziel 'WRECK THE LEAGUE TEXT'.

4) After getting drafted, Haslem comes out and say Manziel will be a backup and have to understand that Cleveland is a "HARDWORKING" town. Cleveland is NOT Hollywood. It certainly seems like Cleveland's biggest concern is Manziel's lacks hardwork and loves only the spotlight.

5) To confirm the lack of hardwork, a NE Patriots scouting report leaked shortly after the draft indicating Manziel lacks strong work ethic and is a party animal. He's also have issues in the locker room.

6) Starts off OTA the 3rd on the QB depth chart and have not practiced with the 1st string offense yet.

7) Today, Farmer indicates that Hoyer is FAR BETTER as a QB than Manziel.

 

You have be Manziel's jock to see there's no concerns here. This is NOT a good START to a bright NFL career.

[Westside Steve]

Or maybe Gordon isnt the whole fucking team.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

Masterdog-you have taken a few facts and spun them the way you want it to be seen. You have no idea how hard Johnny worked AFTER the Heisman to develop himself into a pocket passer. That paid off by having the highest completion rate in the country FROM THE POCKET in 2013. When he went to California to work with a QB coach he did two very important things. First he made it clear he wanted to become an NFL level QB who passed from the pocket first and then did his thing on the run second. The second thing he did is tell that coach that he would not enter the NFL draft until that coach told him he was ready to make the next step. Both of those goals were accomplished. I guarantee he has now set new goals for himself and has shared those with his new coaching staff. They in return have shared their expectations and will help him reach those mutually agreed upon goals before they throw him to the wolves.

 

In line with this I saw a live interview this morning with the HC in which he said, "I will not let our QB selection be decided by T-shirt sales." He will play Johnny in games only when he shows he is ready and is superior to any other QB on the roster. He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything.

 

PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Exactly Petine

 

Masterdog-you have taken a few facts and spun them the way you want it to be seen. You have no idea how hard Johnny worked AFTER the Heisman to develop himself into a pocket passer. That paid off by having the highest completion rate in the country FROM THE POCKET in 2013. When he went to California to work with a QB coach he did two very important things. First he made it clear he wanted to become an NFL level QB who passed from the pocket first and then did his thing on the run second. The second thing he did is tell that coach that he would not enter the NFL draft until that coach told him he was ready to make the next step. Both of those goals were accomplished. I guarantee he has now set new goals for himself and has shared those with his new coaching staff. They in return have shared their expectations and will help him reach those mutually agreed upon goals before they throw him to the wolves.

 

In line with this I saw a live interview this morning with the HC in which he said, "I will not let our QB selection be decided by T-shirt sales." He will play Johnny in games only when he shows he is ready and is superior to any other QB on the roster. He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything.

 

PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?

Exactly. They are trying to send smoke screens as usual about who will start, etc. They are well aware of the media circus surrounding Johnny Football and they will play it to their advantage.

[Tour2ma]

You can't multiquote the responses?

I did... for some reason (IE update and/or site software update) just started blending them all together. I can edit to separate them, but when I post, they merge again...

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I did... for some reason (IE update and/or site software update) just started blending them all together. I can edit to separate them, but when I post, they merge again...

 

That's weird.

 

Google Chrome all the way.

[The Gipper]

Do yourself a favor and read the SI article about the draft. The experts were very iffy on Johnny and there is a reason he was still available at 22, just like Quinn and Weeden were. And when Cleveland drafted them, they thought they got a steal then too!

There isn't a draft pick ever made that wasn't a risk. #1 overall picks the likes of Jamarcus Russell are a prone to "bustage" as any other position. Or you can have a street FA become a Hall of Famer.

Just because Weeden and Quinn were busts doesn't mean JFF will be. Of course it doesn't mean he won't.

[Tour2ma]

Well... perhaps the multi-quote glitch is gone...

 

Maybe the Browns finally have a front office? Maybe they intend to knock the Johnny Football out of Johnny Manziel and see what he really has? Maybe this front office knew about Gordon but decided to build a team beyond THIS YEAR? I for one am very interested to see if the Browns might finally have a front office. I'm also interested to see how many Browns fans organize a mass suicide because building for the future is unacceptable in Cleveland

Our FO has stated that the Gordon news had zero impact on the draft plan. Certainly in part because Gordon's future is up in the air and in part because they new they could rent WRs for a year, if need be.

 

As for our FOs... excepting the panic-stricken, Wheezy/TR fiasco that was Holmgren's dying breath, we haven't been doing too badly player-wise. And now, although I admit the jury is still out, I think it is pretty clear our FO is even better.

 

PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?

As you well know he is not. What is Farmer? Our talent-evaluator-in-chief... Seen any sign that our HC disagrees at this point?

 

To expect anything other than JM being no higher than #2 on the depth chart at this point is ludicrous.

[The Gipper]

And since when have the Browns done the worst job drafting and performing for the past 40 years? Besides that's the magic number in the stories of the Bible, so I guess it's time for it to come to an end. Since the 1970 merger, which is just a point of reference no more no less, the Browns have the worst record and have drafted the highest (they might be second worst). Certainly true for the last 15 years.

 

Well, see, this is where your ignorance an hubris comes in. The Browns by no means have the worst record, nor have they probably had any greater ratio of busts with their drafts than many many other teams.

Even in the last 15 year teams like the Raiders, Jags, Lions have worse records.

I am sure I could come in with statistics blowing your generalizations out of the water, but I have determined that countering ignorant generalizations is not worth my time.

[The Gipper]

It's not really wrong if you are willing to accept the truth. Of the teams in the league at the time of the merger, only the Lions have a worse record, and the Browns have clearly been the worst (and the highest drafting) in the last 15 years. P.S. Note the team with the best record since the merger you don't amass the best record over a 44 year period by luck.

 

Odd that you cannot read your own link. Browns record is only 5th worse, not 2d worse. And, yes, most of that bad era has been since 1999.

[The Gipper]

You are such a dipstick! It's funny how you agree with pundits when they say what you want to hear and call them idiots the other 95% of the time.

I don't know about that. I know that you are an idiot 95% of the time.

 

I also know the facts: The AFCN has not really been that tough of a division the last couple of years.

The Ravens got on a hot streak to win the SB in 2012, but their regular season record of 10-6 was the worst record of the 8 division winners, tied with Washington. Cinci made it as a wild card team.....but that is because there wasn't much of a challenge.

In 2013 it was worse. In fact, here are the W-L record for each division last year:

 

NFCW 42-22

AFCW 37-27

AFCE 34-30

NFCS 31-33

AFCN 31-33

NFCN 28-34-2

NFCE 28-36

AFCS 24-40

 

So, the AFCN was mediocre. Just like I said it was.

[The Gipper]

Maybe the Browns finally have a front office? Maybe they intend to knock the Johnny Football out of Johnny Manziel and see what he really has? Maybe this front office knew about Gordon but decided to build a team beyond THIS YEAR? I for one am very interested to see if the Browns might finally have a front office. I'm also interested to see how many Browns fans organize a mass suicide because building for the future is unacceptable in Cleveland

So, what makes you think that anyone gives a shit what you are interested in.

 

Turn the tables, What are we interested in: Well, we see that you make a fool of yourself. But that is more of an observation than interest. Beyond that? nothing really.

[The Gipper]

This represents exactly what I mean about most Browns fans, once the facts are put on the table, they stop talking. Maybe tml1138 had to go but what about the rest of you chest-thumpers?

Except, of course, as is natural for a Steeler fan, you misrepresented the facts even as you were giving them.

[TexasAg1969]

 

To expect anything other than JM being no higher than #2 on the depth chart at this point is ludicrous.

I think I made it pretty clear I am in line with HC Pettine's thinking: "He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything." When it comes to actually running a team after draft day I only listen to him. It's his baby now, not the owners or anyone in management. So what they say means nothing to me.

[The Gipper]

As with your previous post and most others you spin up, you are imagining your circumstances without really reading. I will type this slowly for you. Are you ready?

 

Of the teams in the league at the time of the merger, only the Lions have a worse record.

 

OK, fine, I didn't belabor reading over your drivel....though I am not sure why you should limit that to just those teams in existance as of the date of the merger.

But...even then, you are still a douchnozzle and wrong and still failed to read your own link.

Last time I looked, the Cardinals were a team in existance at that time as well as the Browns and Lions.

So, you were double dumbass wrong.

 

P.S. Douchebag..... you don't amass the second worst record over 44 years in the last 14 years. It's been a long, bad, 44 year ride with one 4 year period where they looked up over the toilet seat and then plunged right back to the bottom of the outhouse.

 

Prove it. Do a complete record search of what they were between 1970 to 1995. I suggest they had over a .500 record for those years.

 

[Mark O]

I showed you a link and you didn't like it but I would challenge you to prove where that link is wrong. You are such a huge windbag, you make shit up all the time, you lie, you act like an attorney for Christ sake. But hey, you like yourself and that's all that counts

 

Jesus Christ you're boring...

[Harry Buffalo]

I showed you a link and you didn't like it but I would challenge you to prove where that link is wrong. You are such a huge windbag, you make shit up all the time, you lie, you act like an attorney for Christ sake. But hey, you like yourself and that's all that counts

Who's this cunt?

[The Gipper]

I showed you a link and you didn't like it but I would challenge you to prove where that link is wrong. You are such a huge windbag, you make shit up all the time, you lie, you act like an attorney for Christ sake. But hey, you like yourself and that's all that counts

 

OK, yes, I showed you to be wrong and you have a silly hissy fit. The link is not wrong.....your characterization of the Browns as having the second worst record is wrong. (they are 3rd worst). I mean, I am sorry that you cannot count to 3.

 

By the way windbag, the Cardinals played in other cities for 23 of those years. Now if you want to factor in the record of the old Browns since they went to Baltimore, the numbers would look a lot better.

 

What difference does the Cardinals moving matter. That is the same franchise that moved. And there is no such thing as "old Browns" that ever moved to Baltimore. The Browns here are the same franchise that has been here since 1946. I am sorry if you are ignorant of the fact concerning that matter.

If you are going to continue to have me, a lawyer as you point out, continue to educate about NFL history, then I am going to start to have to charge you my hourly rate.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating

114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating

120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating

141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating

93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating

64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating

59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating

 

 

 

Does anybody care to guess what these are?

 

 

These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.

 

Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.

 

Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.

 

So what, exactly, is it?

 

 

 

 

 

[choco]

Cherry picking I see. Is there a point to this crap?

 

You act like all those pretty little numbers that lead you too conclusions were all ray farmer picks.

 

Smart people realize history doesn't dictate the future....or do you relish being stuck in the past?

 

Terrible thread.