Id like to see the Browns def emulate something from the texans D next year....

[gumby73]

13 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

 Props to Schobert tho, he saved a couple long runs after the edge had failed. 

2 things that always weights to our ending game results on defense 1.) Winning on 3rd down..Panthers were 5 of 14 at 36%. Browns 4 of 9= 44%....2.) Randall,Collins,Schobert,Garrett lead the way in tackles..When Carrie,BBC and Ward lead us in tackles, were screwed.. Add in the Panthers had 6 of their 10 flags on offense moving them backwards in key spots always helps.Panthers in redzone were 2 of 5..The LB Tanner Vallejo kid from Bills, has been a huge band-aide in key spots     

[ballpeen]

On 12/9/2018 at 12:46 PM, Dutch Oven said:

A Left Tackle could be sitting there for the Browns too, if Dorsey doesn't think either candidate on the roster now is the longterm solution to the position. 

They could, but would that be the best pick for the team.  Since Williams and Kitchens took over, our LT play hasn't been a problem.  I look  to add more pop on the defensive front or a bookend corner to Ward.

[Clevfan4life]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

..The LB Tanner Vallejo kid from Bills, has been a huge band-aide in key spots     

I really hope we retain that dude, i see such promise in him. 

[Tour2ma]

18 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

how much of that do you think is directly related to Baker and this offense that can stay on the field?

And ur point about mccaffrey is right on, they had to move away from him because Baker was moving the ball. You can't argue that Mccaffrey was seeing some huge holes. Props to Schobert tho, he saved a couple long runs after the edge had failed. 

Some for sure, but not as much as you might think. Sunday our TOP differential was -7:40. In fact 2 of our 3 most recent wins came with negative differentials. Plus have to recognize that the D getting off the field impacts TOP as well as the O staying on it.

My McCaffery point was that he did not run wild on us... Baker had zero tackles.

3 hours ago, ballpeen said:

They could, but would that be the best pick for the team.  Since Williams and Kitchens took over, our LT play hasn't been a problem.  I look  to add more pop on the defensive front or a bookend corner to Ward.

Good question... here's another. How much is Kitchen's playcalling restricted by his weak OT links? Both in need to help with chips or double-teams and selecting quick developing plays?

May not be an issue this season, but as tape accumulates D's could start catching onto us.

One off-setting positive for the Robinson-Hubbard duo is their run-blocking, which of course helps our passing attack.

4 hours ago, gumby73 said:

The LB Tanner Vallejo kid from Bills, has been a huge band-aide in key spots     

Agree... He's a ST anchor that can contribute to a defense in spot duty.

[TexasAg1969]

Let's go steal Pete from the Seahawks. Talk about a coaching miracle, look what he did with that defense that retained one player from the Legion of Boom. What a defensive masterpiece last night over Minn. It won me my 4th win of the season in FF. I'm now officially in the money 🤑 having covered the investment for the season.

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Let's go steal Pete from the Seahawks. Talk about a coaching miracle, look what he did with that defense that retained one player from the Legion of Boom. What a defensive masterpiece last night over Minn. It won me my 4th win of the season in FF. I'm now officially in the money 🤑 having covered the investment for the season.

Id be ok with that

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Some for sure, but not as much as you might think. Sunday our TOP differential was -7:40. In fact 2 of our 3 most recent wins came with negative differentials. Plus have to recognize that the D getting off the field impacts TOP as well as the O staying on it.

My McCaffery point was that he did not run wild on us... Baker had zero tackles..

So u dont think baker had any impact on the panthers favoring the pass more and more as the game went on? Had the panthers been able to.give him the ball 25-30 times i think that would have signified a browns loss. They had to put it in cams hands and he blew an open rec for the go ahead TD......a win is a win but the defense is looking shaky despite not giving up that many points, thank god the o line has figured how to keep baker alive otherwise tyrod would prob be playing.

[Dutch Oven]

In the ESPN Mock Draft 1.0, McShay had the Browns at #12 taking Houston DT Ed Oliver, which would not suck. 

The defensive talent at the top of this upcoming draft is insane, and with the exception of MLB and the safety positions I could see the Browns going anywhere else with their first rounder. 

(OLB Josh Allen, Kentucky went #9 to Detroit. He's another name that is starting to get love on this board, and I can see why) 

[Clevfan4life]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

In the ESPN Mock Draft 1.0, McShay had the Browns at #12 taking Houston DT Ed Oliver, which would not suck. 

The defensive talent at the top of this upcoming draft is insane, and with the exception of MLB and the safety positions I could see the Browns going anywhere else with their first rounder. 

(OLB Josh Allen, Kentucky went #9 to Detroit. He's another name that is starting to get love on this board, and I can see why) 

Yeah i dont beleive for a second that oliver falls that far. No way. He's got rashan going 2nd now. Im not a downer on gary, if that shoulder is healed up by the combine...and he's there when we pick...yeah sure, unless we address LDE in FA. But i wouldnt take rashan over oliver, no way. Oliver is the only guy in the draft at bosas level. He's going #2

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

Yeah i dont beleive for a second that oliver falls that far. No way. He's got rashan going 2nd now. Im not a downer on gary, if that shoulder is healed up by the combine...and he's there when we pick...yeah sure, unless we address LDE in FA. But i wouldnt take rashan over oliver, no way. Oliver is the only guy in the draft at bosas level. He's going #2

If its true that Oliver is only 275lbs, I could see him sliding a bit. 

[MLD Woody]

I think Oliver and Gary are similar in size. Well, Gary is taller, but they're both 280+ I think. I bet they both play the same position in the NFL. In a 4-3, creating interior pass rush. 

[Clevfan4life]

46 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

If its true that Oliver is only 275lbs, I could see him sliding a bit. 

Why? Have u seen his tape dude? I mean thats bosas size. Besides i think he's pushing 290 anyway. But if he is 275 it makes his tape even that more impressive

[Clevfan4life]

48 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I think Oliver and Gary are similar in size. Well, Gary is taller, but they're both 280+ I think. I bet they both play the same position in the NFL. In a 4-3, creating interior pass rush. 

If we would end up with gary or oliver id like to see them at LDE in our 43 sets and slide inside fir our 34 looks. Both thise guys would be monsters coming off the left edge. Oliver would be more nfl ready day one.....but rashan wouldnt need more than a year. Even myles took a year to clean up some of his tech

[TexasAg1969]

6 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Why? Have u seen his tape dude? I mean thats bosas size. Besides i think he's pushing 290 anyway. But if he is 275 it makes his tape even that more impressive

Just look what happens when 270 lb Garrett moves over to DT from time to time. He doesn't have a bit of trouble getting through.

[MLD Woody]

Bosa is a true end.

Oliver played inside in college (against lower level talent remember)

Gary played outside a lot, but has been projected inside a lot at the next level.

 

I'd personally rather see us get a compliment to Ogunjobi inside. Interior pass rush is much more disruptive. Look at what Aaron Donald does. Plus Oliver or Gary could line up at some other positions on the line if needed. 

 

Bosas projections probably put him out of our range. Gary's vary a lot, but after the combine (and if we finish strong) he may be too high as well. If Oliver falls to us, I'll be very happy.

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Why? Have u seen his tape dude? I mean thats bosas size. Besides i think he's pushing 290 anyway. But if he is 275 it makes his tape even that more impressive

I'm possibly the first person on this board who mentioned that I want the Browns to draft this kid, right after LAST YEAR'S draft. 

But there seems to be a reason why the same guys who pimped Oliver as a #1 or #2 overall pick now have him out of the top 10. That raises a few questions to me, enough to make me have to see more of Oliver to see why they think he's sliding. 

 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

Bosa is a true end.

Oliver played inside in college (against lower level talent remember)

Gary played outside a lot, but has been projected inside a lot at the next level.

 

I'd personally rather see us get a compliment to Ogunjobi inside. Interior pass rush is much more disruptive. Look at what Aaron Donald does. Plus Oliver or Gary could line up at some other positions on the line if needed. 

 

Bosas projections probably put him out of our range. Gary's vary a lot, but after the combine (and if we finish strong) he may be too high as well. If Oliver falls to us, I'll be very happy.

And I'm pretty much on on taking the biggest, best, fastest, most athletic ILB available. Does no good to plug the middle if no one is filling the gap properly. I still can't figure out why we traded Shelton away for a song and a dance. Anybody get it?

[Unsympathetic]

2 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And I'm pretty much on on taking the biggest, best, fastest, most athletic ILB available. Does no good to plug the middle if no one is filling the gap properly. I still can't figure out why we traded Shelton away for a song and a dance. Anybody get it?

Schobert is all that.. we do need OLB's beside him though.

Shelton.. probably they thought the other guys were just as good.  Don't look at Shelton's PFF -- it's frustrating to see Coley and Ogun both notably lower than him.

That first rounder now once again has to be DT and probably the second a LB..

[Tour2ma]

Key to OLBs will be what we do with Collins.

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

In the ESPN Mock Draft 1.0, McShay had the Browns at #12 taking Houston DT Ed Oliver, which would not suck.

(OLB Josh Allen, Kentucky went #9 to Detroit. He's another name that is starting to get love on this board, and I can see why) 

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

If its true that Oliver is only 275lbs, I could see him sliding a bit. 

Yup... the discussion around Oliver's playing weight surprised me.

Also even as blurry as the line has gotten, it surprised me that McShay listed Allen as a DE.

 

[Clevfan4life]

guys...between kirksey, schobert, vallejo and AVERY.....we are pimped at LB'er. I like collins but if he goes, im perfectly ok with that. Personally i think Avery is being groomed to fill his role and still come off the edge in the nickel packages. 

[Clevfan4life]

5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Just look what happens when 270 lb Garrett moves over to DT from time to time. He doesn't have a bit of trouble getting through.

Because he lines up in the gaps. For Pure pass rushing you could line up Avery inside and he'd make intior lineman look silly.....he'd knife throigh a gap before the came out of their 3 pt. For an every down DT garrett would not be good at his current weight....because he'd have too much gap responsibility  and it would wear him down

Interior lineman have to be able to deal with double teams on the regular. They need that anchor weight. Frankly when we had shelton and meder, nothing came up the middle. If we had them back right now rotating with ogunjobi, and garrett/avery rushing the edges......omg. And jobi would be a healthy one gapper terrorizing interior lines.

Right u all see he's not anywhere close to what he was beginning of the season. He'll prob nurse that bicep through the end of the season. 

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I think Oliver and Gary are similar in size. Well, Gary is taller, but they're both 280+ I think. I bet they both play the same position in the NFL. In a 4-3, creating interior pass rush. 

Well.....according to Todd McShay's firt Mock Draft.....the top 5 picks off the board will all be defensive linemen.

And I am  sure that  Oliver was not among those 5.  Not sure about Gary.  (I don't subscribe....so I can't check it).  So, who knows, they could both be there in the mid first round.

[Clevfan4life]

they've got gary going 2nd now. Hey, im all for Oliver dropping down the board. ALL for it

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well.....according to Todd McShay's firt Mock Draft.....the top 5 picks off the board will all be defensive linemen.

And I am  sure that  Oliver was not among those 5.  Not sure about Gary.  (I don't subscribe....so I can't check it).  So, who knows, they could both be there in the mid first round.

He had Gary going 2nd

[tiamat63]

Got a text about 10am saying " Josh Allen, you need to watch this kid"...   wondered if anyone else on this board had seen him yet so I hit the little search button.

...  and here we are.  

[The Gipper]

47 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

He had Gary going 2nd

I am skeptical that the Top 5 would ever be all D Linemen....even if that is where the strength of the draft is.  Quarterbacks STILL command the attention of the top of the draft.

But, oddly...the Top 6 teams that would draft now if the season ended today do not appear to be in need of a QB:  49ers (Garropolo coming back), Cardinals (Rosen)  Raiders (Carr) Jets(Darnold) Falcons (Ryan still at it)  Bills (Allen).   It is not until you get to 7 and 8 where a QB may be needed:  Jags and Giants.  (then maybe Redskins at 15 and Dolphins at 19 could be in the market.

IF  that order held up....I could see some serious trade ups for a QB.   (But only if Herbert and Haskins come out...which neither may).  but if they do,  these top DL could slip down a bit.

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

guys...between kirksey, schobert, vallejo and AVERY.....we are pimped at LB'er. I like collins but if he goes, im perfectly ok with that. Personally i think Avery is being groomed to fill his role and still come off the edge in the nickel packages. 

Kirksey has been a ghost for most of the season, as much as I like him. 

Schobert is a mainstay. 

Vallejo? Really? 

Avery is a good situational player. 

OLB is a need. 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

10 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And I'm pretty much on on taking the biggest, best, fastest, most athletic ILB available. Does no good to plug the middle if no one is filling the gap properly. I still can't figure out why we traded Shelton away for a song and a dance. Anybody get it?

Shelton wasn’t worth the 1st rounder money? And didn’t fit the 4-3 scheme.

as far a LB, don’t forget, it’s important for and ILB to have high IQ and we already have a high IQ ILB. Kirksey plays well on the inside as well.

Schobert will pack on some size, he was pretty small as a rookie and has gotten bigger since.

[Dutch Oven]

I don't have any stats to back this thought up, so feel free to destroy me on this if you feel I'm way off base...

I'm starting to feel like LBs are the defensive version of RBs. 

Basically, you don't have to invest in a high pick to get a quality one. Four months before the Draft, I'm intrigued by someone like Josh Allen, but I have this sneaking suspicion I'll probably lean towards a DLineman, corner or Left Tackle. 

Am I way off base? 

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I don't have any stats to back this thought up, so feel free to destroy me on this if you feel I'm way off base...

I'm starting to feel like LBs are the defensive version of RBs. 

Basically, you don't have to invest in a high pick to get a quality one. Four months before the Draft, I'm intrigued by someone like Josh Allen, but I have this sneaking suspicion I'll probably lean towards a DLineman, corner or Left Tackle. 

Am I way off base? 

No. The league is much more passing heavy now.

Pass rush and pass coverage are king on D. 

Versitile DBs can do more than a LB. And your LBs need to be able to cover. Big, run stopping LBs that throw their bodies into gaps are less important.