Riffer X Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 The league evolves yearly given certain copycat styles and devising ways to stop success. Dick LeBeau seems to constantly be able to get production out of Pitt's zone blitz scheme without major changes, probably dating back to the advent of it n the early 90's. The Browns have had numerous opportunities to beat Pitt dating back to the 2003 playoff choke but haven't been able to seal the deal, save for Couch's big win at Pitt. My question is, what will it take to finally get it done? ---Is there a way to stop Big Gay from scrambling out of pressure and converting on third and 18's? Maybe a spy for example? One of the best defensive schemes and creativity under RAC 'n ROLLS was the implementation of Leon Williams to spy on Vick two years ago. It was also one of the few times Williams has played well. Is there a way to put a sure tackling, smart player on Big Gay now? I'd like to hear some ideas from guys like Alo on this or anybody else. How to make Pitt play for their blitzing: I feel a lot better with someone like Quinn attacking Pitt's defense. With the much improved oline hopefully, the running game should be there all year. When Pitt gets busy with Polly in the box trying to stop the run and force the Browns into obvious passing situations, I'd like to see Quinn beat those blitzes with his strengths such as misdirection roll outs and quick hitters to the improved receiving corps. Good blocking TE's like Royal and Heiden should definitely help control the line of scrimmage and Mack should definitely be an improvement in neutralizing Hampton. To me, guys like Harrison and Cribbs are essential to beating Pitt. Sure, controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball is key, but so is not playing right into their cards with Lewis off tackle constantly. Looking at the roster that I believe will be starting, I can see victory over Pitt with a solid game plan. The key will be Big Gay Ben not pulling plays out his ass, and that's what the Browns need to concentrate on IMO along with an aggressive, attack style offensive attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Its really not that hard, a simple cover 3 base, only have the corners play man instead of a deep zone, and stretch the OLB's zones vertically. Half the time you blitz with either the SILB or WILB the other half you just play a tight zone, and dont forget to have the corners press on each play you decide to blitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Quinn already knows how to take on Pitts defense, he said he's been studying it for years. He was on a radion show a few weeks before the superbowl and was describing how porous (since you asked) the center of their field is. Its just most recivers are afraid of polamalu and crew dlivering nasty hits. Once Quinn described the holes, look what happened in the superbowl. Larry Fitz post over the middle for a long TD. Against pitt you can do that all day, you just need a reciver with balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunkonmyback DPOY Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 In the past, (late 07 eraly 08 season) Ben's game has really been stalled when their is a spy on him all game. Its an idea that can work. Although, Ben has learned to take advantage deep down field when too many defensive guys crowd the line. Bruce Arians is making our offense so that all 5 skill players on the field are capable of catching the ball and making a play. With ben's experience and versatile skill players, spying Ben the whole game will no longer be effective, but can work in certain situations. The best way to hault our offense is to dominate our o-line with 4 players consistantly throughtout the game. The Titans were the only team to do that consistantly for a full game. Uncoincidently, that was our biggest loss of the season. At this point in time, if the Steelers' offense is having a good game, the Browns defense will not be able to stop them. A dominant d-line and a safety that keeps the play infront of him is the base of having a Steeler-stopping defense. ----- PlaygroundLegend brought up a good point in that Quinn has had a few years to exime and game plan against the Steelers D. The great thing about our defense is the qb disecting it inside and out is still only half of what you to do to beat it. Becuase of Harrison and Woodley, we can shut down the run and get massive pass pressure with just 4 or 5 players. As long as Lebeau is our defensive coordinator our defense will be nearly unstoppable and the same game plan will never work twice. (If you get lucky enough to get it to work just once) The only chance of beating our D is to have your running game working the whole game. You will need one of the top o-line units in the league and Magini is the right guy to get that done. A Lewis type is a good type of back to have running at our defense but Lewis is too hold and washed up to be effective against any D in the league. No team can expect to completly dominate our D. If you contain our offense and get a few good returns on special team, simply being patient and making the fullest of your oppurtunities against our defense is enough to play a winnable game. I don't see the Browns having the talent to do that for the next few years, but Magini will build you to very good lines. If you haven't already noticed, I having been emphasizing building two very good lines is key to play competitive games aginst us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 yeah, what he said, and not being afraid to go over the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Quinn already knows how to take on Pitts defense, he said he's been studying it for years. He was on a radion show a few weeks before the superbowl and was describing how poris (poris? spelling?) the center of their field is. Its just most recivers are afraid of polamalu and crew dlivering nasty hits. Once Quinn described the holes, look what happened in the superbowl. Larry Fitz post over the middle for a long TD. Against pitt you can do that all day, you just need a reciver with balls. Yea dude, Quinn's got it "figured out". LOL. I am a Quinn fan, but your statement is "poris" at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Quinn already knows how to take on Pitts defense, he said he's been studying it for years. He was on a radion show a few weeks before the superbowl and was describing how porous (since you asked) the center of their field is. Its just most recivers are afraid of polamalu and crew dlivering nasty hits. Once Quinn described the holes, look what happened in the superbowl. Larry Fitz post over the middle for a long TD. Against pitt you can do that all day, you just need a reciver with balls. i'm a life long steelerfan and this is without a doubt the biggest area of concern for our D. teams, the last 4 yrs or so, have repeatedly taken advantage of the seam that opens in the middle of the field and hit their TE or slot guy who then gains 15-25 yrds on us. not sure why it happens.........but it does and any team that chews that bone will be rewarded. that being said, you can't chew that bone all game and it dosen't work unless you also stay committed to a *effective* run game. effective not being 2yrds and a cloud of dust that you're getting from Lewis on us. wether improved line play or a better option at RB (maybe cribbs) the running game in Cleveland needs to get back on track if you wanna beat Pitt. the loss of Winslow makes tearing up our middle alot harder though.........don't think any of the TE's you have now come anywhere close to his passcatching abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 the loss of Winslow makes tearing up our middle alot harder though.........don't think any of the TE's you have now come anywhere close to his passcatching abilities. Doesn't matter - we never used Winslow the right way up the seam. Could be we were afraid he would get smashed up. But when we had him he never really tore Pitt up. I will be honest about Pittsburgh - I would love to split the series. That would make me happy this season. Games have not be real close, and when there were we couldn't close the deal, but against Pitt everyone had trouble closing against them. How do you beat Pitt? Run the ball and stop the run. Passing against them is not your best bet because that is the strength of their defense. And stopping the run takes away the engine that drives Ben. Stop the run. Run the ball. If you can find me a team that won the last 20 SB's that didn't do at least one of these things I would be surprised. Against Pitt ya gotta do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Quinn already knows how to take on Pitts defense, he said he's been studying it for years. LOL. 31 teams "know" how to beat Pitt. "Do, or do not. There is no try." LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 It will be a team effort. Anderson/Quinn will need recivers that can run good routs and catch the ball. We shoulda beat those asses back in '06 in cleveland and '07 in shitburgh. And it would be helpful to have refs that arent on shitsburgh payroll. Imo we are always gettin screwd not only by shitburgh but by all the nfl. The Arizona game, The Oakland game, Shitburgh, those were all '07. Rember the game against Chicago back in '01 or '02 when they came back from 21-7 with a mineute left???!!!. Its gettn harder to watch this team anymore, not to mention we havent scored a TD in how many games last year? If we cant win all the games I just ask for 2 and it seems like whenever we do play shitburgh our players dont even care if we win or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Sivlerback, I think that is a good analysis. You need to play physical football to consistently beat Pitt. You need to consistently be a physical team week after week because it doesn't do any good to say before the Pitt game that "we need to play physical this week". Playing excessively physical in one game leads you to make mistakes and take stupid penalties as the Browns have done in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNSofSTEEL08 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Quinn already knows how to take on Pitts defense, he said he's been studying it for years. He was on a radion show a few weeks before the superbowl and was describing how porous (since you asked) the center of their field is. Its just most recivers are afraid of polamalu and crew dlivering nasty hits. Once Quinn described the holes, look what happened in the superbowl. Larry Fitz post over the middle for a long TD. Against pitt you can do that all day, you just need a reciver with balls. And why did it take 3 qtrs to Find and exploit this Gaping Hole ?? It all sound good...but at Game Speed , doesnt always translate so easily. Pittsburgh Changed the way they were playing the Cardinal recievers at that Point of the game. Adjustments work BOTH ways... Good and Bad. And Brady Quinn is not yet Kurt Warner. But I thing he will be a Keeper. Our Time to lose is coming...( (I would think). BUT THE "ALL DAY" Thing lol.... I dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 The analysis of rattling Ben leads to a win has been proven wrong by us last year. We gave the guy a concussion. Sacked him on consecutive plays. Yes, we still lost. The way to beat Pitt, and any NFL team is to execute the game-plan as designed. If you say you need to run the ball, then you need to execute the block, the run, and the down-field blocks by the receivers. Miss any one of those steps and we all know how its going to look. On D, you've got to tackle the running back when he runs. That happens by staying in your gaps, shedding blockers or blocking linemen so your LBs can hit those gaps running and finally, by wrapping up the running when your get there. Its fundamentals that make you win games, and that's why what I'm hearing coming out of Berea gets me excited. Its the first word I heard out of Mangini's mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNSofSTEEL08 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 The analysis of rattling Ben leads to a win has been proven wrong by us last year. We gave the guy a concussion. Sacked him on consecutive plays. Yes, we still lost. The way to beat Pitt, and any NFL team is to execute the game-plan as designed. If you say you need to run the ball, then you need to execute the block, the run, and the down-field blocks by the receivers. Miss any one of those steps and we all know how its going to look. On D, you've got to tackle the running back when he runs. That happens by staying in your gaps, shedding blockers or blocking linemen so your LBs can hit those gaps running and finally, by wrapping up the running when your get there. Its fundamentals that make you win games, and that's why what I'm hearing coming out of Berea gets me excited. Its the first word I heard out of Mangini's mouth. Mangenius... My be the Best thing to hit Cleveland since Bernie Kosar ! I am impressed ...think he got shafted in NYC ! Still gotta catch Pittsburgh tho !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 screw Big Gay Ben. sorry that never gets old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I say the same thing every year...until we can stop the run, we can't beat Pitt. The Steelers & Ravens know how to run the ball, and nobody can run on them. Until we learn how to do this, we will not be able to compete in the AFC North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohionative Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 It will be a team effort. Anderson/Quinn will need recivers that can run good routs and catch the ball. We shoulda beat those asses back in '06 in cleveland and '07 in shitburgh. And it would be helpful to have refs that arent on shitsburgh payroll. Imo we are always gettin screwd not only by shitburgh but by all the nfl. The Arizona game, The Oakland game, Shitburgh, those were all '07. Rember the game against Chicago back in '01 or '02 when they came back from 21-7 with a mineute left???!!!. Its gettn harder to watch this team anymore, not to mention we havent scored a TD in how many games last year? If we cant win all the games I just ask for 2 and it seems like whenever we do play shitburgh our players dont even care if we win or not. Good grief. Here was an intelligent and insightful discussion topic until this post. The entire NFL is not out to screw the Browns. We do enough of that on our own with neutral zone infractions, not knowing how to line up for plays, having 5 unproven quarterbacks rotating in a single season with bad decisions about when to start and pull them. The team from 01 or 02 is dead and gone, only two roster spots are the same since those days. Get over the delusion that the world is out to get you. Yeah the Seattle super bowl was a shit fest of terrible officiating that screwed the chickenhawks and their whiney fan base, and there were bad calls on both sides of the field in the most recent bowl game, but to come into a serious discussion and whine like a little bitch that entire universe is against our Browns is asinine. Next you'll be saying that Z was paid off by Orlando to disintegrate in the face of Dwight Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Oh come now, you're really going to use the week 17 game as evidence of this? Who was our QB? Uh yeah, we had no shot of winning that game. You have to score points to win, and we clearly weren't going to do that. On defense, yeah old man Willie got a clean shot, but the rest of the defense was playing like they were already teeing off in Palm Springs. In a real game, with a real QB, with a team not already defeated in a season would capitalize on Ben getting knocked out of a game. not really... i think the steelers are 4 of 5 where Batch/Leftwich have come in (the last 2 yrs) and played a meaningful amount of time (over 1 qtr) and we still won. Ben is the leader......no doubt........but he's not the only guy on the field, and if he were to go down tomorrow the steelers would go on without him......and if history has any say in it, they would go on to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Take away their 'roids before the season starts. And get zebras that don't take bribes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Yeah, and your gonna tell me that Dorsey/Gradowski = Batch/Leftwhich? Seriously? Also Pittsburgh is an established team, with established roles, oh yeah and they also have the top defense in the league. Do we have any of that? No. Sorry fella, but your comparison falls very very flat. true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Take away their 'roids before the season starts. And get zebras that don't take bribes. Ditto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Over the Steelers' last sixteen losses, they've given up fifty more sacks than their defense has notched. That's a pretty astounding stat; it suggests that we won't beat the Steelers until we can out-pressure them. Part of that is having an effective run game that doesn't give the Steelers a chance to get all blitz-happy on a series of 3rd and longs. And you need to stop Pitt's run game in order to get them in the same tough spot. But I'm not sure that we've got the rushers to take apart Pittsburgh. We might be a year or two away, though it's a positive sign that Mangini was able to pressure the hell out of Roethlisberger (7 sacks) back in '07, before he added Calvin Pace & Kris Jenkins to his defense. In many ways, Romeo's fat ass 3-4 was uniquely unsuited for beating Pitt, as his fat & stiff d-linemen had trouble bringing down Roethlisberger (the second Steelers game in '07 comes to mind). Getting Shaun Smith off the field will help, and getting Corey Williams to play like he did in Green Bay would be huge. But we'll need one of our edge guys to be borderline dominant, and I'm not sure I see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDawgFan13 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 In the past, (late 07 eraly 08 season) Ben's game has really been stalled when their is a spy on him all game. Its an idea that can work. Although, Ben has learned to take advantage deep down field when too many defensive guys crowd the line. Bruce Arians is making our offense so that all 5 skill players on the field are capable of catching the ball and making a play. With ben's experience and versatile skill players, spying Ben the whole game will no longer be effective, but can work in certain situations. The best way to hault our offense is to dominate our o-line with 4 players consistantly throughtout the game. The Titans were the only team to do that consistantly for a full game. Uncoincidently, that was our biggest loss of the season. At this point in time, if the Steelers' offense is having a good game, the Browns defense will not be able to stop them. A dominant d-line and a safety that keeps the play infront of him is the base of having a Steeler-stopping defense. ----- PlaygroundLegend brought up a good point in that Quinn has had a few years to exime and game plan against the Steelers D. The great thing about our defense is the qb disecting it inside and out is still only half of what you to do to beat it. Becuase of Harrison and Woodley, we can shut down the run and get massive pass pressure with just 4 or 5 players. As long as Lebeau is our defensive coordinator our defense will be nearly unstoppable and the same game plan will never work twice. (If you get lucky enough to get it to work just once) The only chance of beating our D is to have your running game working the whole game. You will need one of the top o-line units in the league and Magini is the right guy to get that done. A Lewis type is a good type of back to have running at our defense but Lewis is too hold and washed up to be effective against any D in the league. No team can expect to completly dominate our D. If you contain our offense and get a few good returns on special team, simply being patient and making the fullest of your oppurtunities against our defense is enough to play a winnable game. I don't see the Browns having the talent to do that for the next few years, but Magini will build you to very good lines. If you haven't already noticed, I having been emphasizing building two very good lines is key to play competitive games aginst us. Silver...While I agree with you completely on how to beat the Steelers, I have to disagree about the overall talent level of the Browns. The problem with the Browns is not and has not been a lack of talent, but a lack of good coaching. The coaching has had difficulties if figuring out how to use the talent on this team. Jerome Harrison is a great example of that. Romeo rarely used him at all, even though he clearly showed plenty of talent! Mangini doesn't seem like the coach that is going to keep making that mistake. He seems to be building the team into his schemes based on the skills available to him instead of trying to shoe-horn players into places they don't fit. Mark my words...The Browns will beat the Steelers at least once this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendMeOver Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 The Browns have had numerous opportunities to beat Pitt dating back to the 2003 playoff choke but haven't been able to seal the deal, save for Couch's big win at Pitt. My question is, what will it take to finally get it done? Ben may retire in 10-12 years and that really is your only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns2405 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I"m going to go with the Madden Route and Say the If we can have less turnovers and more points then Pitt... we will succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns2405 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 On a more serous note I'd say come out with some freakin intensity. Get rid of this timid bs and go after them. First play of the game throw a bomb to Braylon or something. Or if we are D go with some all out blitzes or something to show them we are here and ready to play for 60 minutes and maintain our intensity. Hit them in the mouth first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Did some asshole just quote me or was I sleeping? either way wake me when the season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Silver...While I agree with you completely on how to beat the Steelers, I have to disagree about the overall talent level of the Browns. The problem with the Browns is not and has not been a lack of talent, but a lack of good coaching. The coaching has had difficulties if figuring out how to use the talent on this team. Jerome Harrison is a great example of that. Romeo rarely used him at all, even though he clearly showed plenty of talent! Mangini doesn't seem like the coach that is going to keep making that mistake. He seems to be building the team into his schemes based on the skills available to him instead of trying to shoe-horn players into places they don't fit. Mark my words...The Browns will beat the Steelers at least once this season. i know this may sound bad or condescending coming from a steeler fan, but i have to dissagree. the problem with the Browns IS lack of overall talent. the reason for that is, as you said, bad coaching/scouting. the NFL recently sent a survey out to the "PLAYERS" (not overactive steelerfans that stuff the ballots or anything) asking different questions like "team with best/worst players" and "team with best/worst owners" ditto with stadium and a couple other catagories. the browns finished 32nd in overall player skill/talent. i think the link should still be up in NFL.com but i don't feel like searching for it now. not to worry guys, this is actually good for your team. upgrading talent is one of the easier things to fix in the NFL in a short amount of time and i think Mangini has taken the first positive steps in that direction for the Browns organizeation that i can remember seeing in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I have been a Browns fan ever since I knew what a football was. I get on here every so often and post a thought or 2. Now I posted something that was on my mind and some useless pice of shit wants to pick someting out that i wrote and start with me. Who in the fuk do you think you are? You don know the first fuken thing about me and you want to start>!!? Why dont you go and suck your dad off or something.? ASSHOLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradyQuinnisBeast Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Im really excited about Ryan. I think he will give us some good agressive schemes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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