The 'Who you watching?' 2020 thread.

[MLD Woody]

14 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

WHADAYA mean "we"?

You heard me

[The Gipper]

Just now, MLD Woody said:

I can find a good video explaining what a 3-3-5 front is so you can follow along Gip.

Maybe a "My First Football Game" pop up book explaining the different type of linebackers?

Caught me one:

(and when was this ever about "what kind of LB he is....the issue is simply that no matter where/how he plays or lines up....you will over estimate his abilities simply because he comes from  Fishagain.!

[MLD Woody]

21 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Caught me one:

(and when was this ever about "what kind of LB he is....the issue is simply that no matter where/how he plays or lines up....you will over estimate his abilities simply because he comes from  Fishagain.!

No, not really. Ask me about Shea Patterson? Lol. 

And are you just going to claim you "got me" any time I respond to you? 

I mean if you say the sky is yellow and I say "no Gip, it's blue" is that a "gotcha'?

 

 

Oh and the linebackers comment is me still making phone of you for not knowing that, while you go around and proclaim your football insight. 

[The Gipper]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

No, not really. Ask me about Shea Patterson? Lol. 

And are you just going to claim you "got me" any time I respond to you? 

I mean if you say the sky is yellow and I say "no Gip, it's blue" is that a "gotcha'?

No....only when  I put an obvious post intended to trap you and get your goat.....and then your goat is gotten.  Like this.  I played on your sychophanaticism and you bit like a carp. 

Uchee coochee may be a fine player...but who cares.  

[Tour2ma]

Football fans?

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Football fans?

Woody only cares that he went to Fishagain.  As a football fan...a Browns fan,  I would care, if/when  the Browns take him...and if he turns out to be something for them.  

Do you think Uchee Coochee is all that and a bag of chips?   And by that I mean do you think he is a guy the Browns should seriously look at?    We have  Garrett, Olivier, Clayton, Chad Thomas  and a few other guys at our DE position.  Do we need him there really?   Or, as and "edge" player, would he play at one of our OLB spots.   Would we want to consider him in lieu of Willie Harvey.    That seems a more likely probability.

I actually am the one that chose him in Round 2 of our board draft   (for the Texans...pick #57)  but I am not sure the Browns would want to go Edge that early....given their priorities.   Maybe if he was still there at #74?  (that is where I took Malik Harrison...for the Browns at MLB.)

[tiamat63]

51 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

   We have  Garrett, Olivier, Clayton, Chad Thomas  and a few other guys at our DE position.  Do we need him there really?   Or, as and "edge" player, would he play at one of our OLB spots.   Would we want to consider him in lieu of Willie Harvey.    That seems a more likely probability.

 

If only somebody had taken the time to watch several games and drawn up a quick synopsis.... 

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

If only somebody had taken the time to watch several games and drawn up a quick synopsis.... 

I saw your synopsis but they didn’t answer my questions. Could The Browns use him and where would they use him.

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I saw your synopsis but they didn’t answer my questions. Could The Browns use him and where would they use him.

Yes.  I don't think it would be the greatest fit of talent + need, but I'm sure he could carve out a role.    Then again, the word "use" is quite broad.

Ideally he'd go to a team that doesn't have as great of a need at linebacker and can bring him along slowly.  Sadly that ain't us.

[tiamat63]

So I'm going back and (SLOWLY) charting defensive snaps for the Broncos under Joe Woods.  Working backwards, which is admittedly not the best idea.  Started with 2018 and I'm seeing glimpses of why Woods is bringing in some of the personnel we have and why the pursuit of Yannick or Clowney.     Apologies for the upload, I know it takes up bandwidth.    Warning, I've been drinking a fuck ton of coffee and listening to the entire Run The Jewels 3 album.

 

@Tour2ma  I had NO idea what color to go with since you said something about color blind.  I felt hot pink ended up contrasting well.  If it doesn't then throw me a life line on what works best for some of you with that particular issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, this is a more "34" oriented look.  But unlike most of what you would understand as a classic heads up 2 gapping system, you see the Wade Phillips influence very early on with the young Woods as DC.   I did my best to align the text with the player.  But I'll expand on some of this below.

- The bigger shaded nose is exactly why Billings was brought in.  To combat the 2 TE sets and downhill nature of certain teams in the AFC.    Against an IZ, his primary assignment will be to control the centers playside (right) shoulder, and work contact into the playside guard then plant his ass into that gap. If the guards works to the 2nd level, then the running back is dealing with the big boy still clogging the lane because he's been singled up.   The shade for Billings is great because he isn't Haloti Ngata.  I don't think a heads up Nose who can 2 gap consistently exists anymore in our NFL.  It's an incredibly difficult position to play and to find.  Which is why most every "34" you see now is almost exclusively a 1 gap or blended gap scheme.   You'll notice neither of the other interior lineman are playing heads up on their man.  Both playing into an assigned gap.     You know who loves 2 TE sets by the way...?  The Ravens.   I can all but guarantee in the DC position interview, the question was brought up as to how you would slow down their rushing attack.  A question Woods was ready to answer.

- The playside 4i tech will attack the OT outside shoulder against IZ if he's singled up, anchor and find the ball carrier.  If he's getting chipped by the TE he'll anchor and plug.   Against an OZ he'll keep his outside shoulder free vs the tackle, and continue working outside while possibly getting upfield.  

- Playside closed edge (Bradley Chubb) will work the inline TE outside shoulder and have a similar attack to the playside 4i-tech.  IZ he's going to stack, locate and work back inside.  OZ he's going to keep his outside leverage, work upfield without taking himself out of the play and force the EMOL to either help chip him or move to the outside fun force.  He's the "spill" man in the case of the stretch play. 

- Weakside 3tech, which almost kind of makes this an under front of sorts (3 tech to the weakside) attacks the outside shoulder of the guard, same same... stacks and attacks. Should the weakside tackle downblock and double (dumb, especially considering that's Von fucking Miller to the weakside) he anchors and the weakside edge plays crashes down the line or plays and bootleg, waggle, etc etc accordingly.  Generally the only way you turn that weakside edge loose is either you don't believe he's good enough to affect the play from the backside, you're going to bootleg off of his aggression (not likely in this case) or you have a FB or TE coming down the line to 'flash' block him.  (You've seen me use that term before)

- Both linebackers play off their responsibilities given on what the playside read is.   You can read the brief commentary I put next to players.

IF, this was a play to the weakside, the roles would be flipped... so to speak.  The nose would work across the face of the center and disrupt being picked up by the backside guard.  The weakside 3tech maintains outside leverage while working out and up.   Weakside edge stacks outside hard and holds his leverage.   Weakside linebacker now becomes the fill man and the strong side backer must flow laterally and play as run force/clean up.

But this explains some of the want for "bigger" bodies under Woods - Billings and, to a lesser extent, Clayborne.     You'll almost never see a true 2 gap nose anymore.  The 2 gap play is left to the "ends".  Leonard Williams is a prime example for that while at USC,  and drafted quite high (rightfully so) because of it.

And that's one of the reasons I bring up not only redundancy, but flexibility.  In the above picture, the Browns currently have 2 different DI's who can play just about any spot along that line depending on the call and the opponent save for Billings - who is exclusively a nose.    Jobi can play as the weakside 3tech along side Myles, which would net both a TON of 1 on 1 looks. Sheldon can play the strongside 4tech and have the quicks, yet strength, to do all that position requires between playing run and still being able to pressure the passer from a "base" look while anticipating run.     

Clayborne can also play as that 4tech and, without too much risk of being exposed, even play as the "closed" end.   However going off how he plays best and speaking of coach adaptability, he'll be in a 3pt stance.   Which is one of the adjustments Woods will have to make to take our roster into consideration.   This "34" will look much more Seahawks level of 43 under with the Browns.

[Tour2ma]

20 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

If only somebody had taken the time to watch several games and drawn up a quick synopsis.... 

Gip needs his own "special" symopsis...

 

18 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

@Tour2ma  I had NO idea what color to go with since you said something about color blind.  I felt hot pink ended up contrasting well.  If it doesn't then throw me a life line on what works best for some of you with that particular issue.

lol... anything not in the "red" spectrum... that greenish shade of pink is barely visible. Blue works... yellow works... black works... white works...

[The Gipper]

If only somebody had taken the time to watch several games and drawn up a quick synopsis.... 

Gip needs his own "special" symopsis..

But I didn't ask for a synopsis....I asked specific questions about the Browns needs and how he fit. 

Typical that you were unable to comprehend that fact.  I am glad that we have someone like Tia that knows what they are talking about and how to comprehend a question that is asked and that can cogently express himself when giving an answer. 

[tiamat63]

26 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Gip needs his own "special" symopsis...

 

lol... anything not in the "red" spectrum... that greenish shade of pink is barely visible. Blue works... yellow works... black works... white works...

So you can't see 1/3 of the colors in the American flag?..... commie.  

 

 

17 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

If only somebody had taken the time to watch several games and drawn up a quick synopsis.... 

Gip needs his own "special" symopsis..

But I didn't ask for a synopsis....I asked specific questions about the Browns needs and how he fit. 

Typical that you were unable to comprehend that fact.  I am glad that we have someone like Tia that knows what they are talking about and how to comprehend a question that is asked and that can cogently express himself when giving an answer. 

*nod*.   I will take that compliment and end my day on a high note.

 

 

Not targeted at either of you in this last part...

 

I've really been intently watching every defensive snap and taking notes.   I started last night and still haven't finished the Broncos first game of 2018 vs Seattle.    And I've come to the conclusion on 2 big things.

- My appreciation for Russel Wilson, which was already high, is 5 fold greater now.    The guy really should have taken MVP this past season.  Lamar Jackson is a fine and electric player, I am in no way doubting that.  But nobody means more to their offense, both through the air and on the ground, than RW.    Plays that should have been throw aways, buying extra time, audibles..  just a smooth operator in every since.  Despite the fact he's about the least physically gifted QB in the NFL.   

- The safeties in Joe Woods system NEED to be badass.  That's all there is too it.   And while I think we have some capable players who will fill in reasonably well,  we lack a true center fielder.  A sideline to sideline ballhawk that really unlocks the potential of the defense.       But really both safeties need to have position flexibility to a degree.   You'll always favor a certain player was your hawk, but somebody has to be able to rotate back there every so often and not be completely exposed.       Good and bad news - I'm not entirely sure if that means we target somebody like Jeremy Chinn in a higher (2nd) round...  or pass on him completely in favor of veteran experience, possible 2021 FA and/or draft prospects?  

[Tour2ma]

Really nice write up...

The one noted assignment I question is the RDE's vs a RIZ... if he want to stay on my LG's outside shoulder, then I'm delighted. If my Center can set your NT up for my RG on the way to the 2nd level, then I have my lane.

If I'm game-planning against this D, on a I have an audible ready to go man vs your zone-D... namely...

• the off TE to flex to a lead, H-back position (either reset or time with motion continuing to weakside) and ultimately kicks out ROLB (Miller);
• Center thru inline TE blocks manover/outside. RG releases to LILB.
• Weakside X-blocks with LG driving out RDE and LT crossing behind to drive on RILB.

It looks like your DB (#26) will follow the motion. If he does, then my right side looks pretty attractive, but he he doesn't then pretending for a minute that your ROLB is human... how do you counter?

[Tour2ma]

18 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

So you can't see 1/3 of the colors in the American flag?..... commie.  

lol... actually there are stripes on our flag that do look red to me... whether or not what I see is what you would call "red" is another matter.

Again the issue with being colorblind is the lack of color contrast between two colors. So unless there's secret writing in green on our flag's red strips... I'm good...

 

And before you ask... traffic lights?

Yes... there are times, usually at nite in poorly lit intersections when I am rolling up uncertain until I can see whether the light that is on is top/left (Red/Stop) or bottom/right (Green/Go).

So far so good...

 

[Tour2ma]

28 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Good and bad news - I'm not entirely sure if that means we target somebody like Jeremy Chinn in a higher (2nd) round...  or pass on him completely in favor of veteran experience, possible 2021 FA and/or draft prospects?  

Or take two this Draft and subsequent drafts until we find our guy.

Chinn at 41 and Davis in the 3rd works for me...

[tiamat63]

43 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Really nice write up...

The one noted assignment I question is the RDE's vs a RIZ... if he want to stay on my LG's outside shoulder, then I'm delighted. If my Center can set your NT up for my RG on the way to the 2nd level, then I have my lane.

If I'm game-planning against this D, on a I have an audible ready to go man vs your zone-D... namely...

• the off TE to flex to a lead, H-back position (either reset or time with motion continuing to weakside) and ultimately kicks out ROLB (Miller);
• Center thru inline TE blocks manover/outside. RG releases to LILB.
• Weakside X-blocks with LG driving out RDE and LT crossing behind to drive on RILB.

It looks like your DB (#26) will follow the motion. If he does, then my right side looks pretty attractive, but he he doesn't then pretending for a minute that your ROLB is human... how do you counter?

In order...

- the 3tech might be setting up on the outside shoulder, but he'll be 'shock and lock' if he doesn't read stretch.   The idea with the stack on an IZ to that side would be to not take yourself so far up field or wide that you can't stack and work back across the LG's face to affect the gap and make the clog easier on the linebacker.    Your big IF is the center setting up the RG to be able to cut off that shaded nose.   Sure, it's a counter that would actually (provided the 3tech holds ground) setup a cutback crease back across the center more likely than anything.   But Seattle doesn't have the line to pull that off and Billings grades against the run would tend to indicate he would be able to work across the RG into the 1 hole.  Actually having watched a couple full games of his, I feel confident that is a counter punch which could still be effectively limited from this look.     P.S.  hole calls are different per team but I'm most familiar/versed with odds left and evens right.   So I'm just going to call it the 1 hole for my own sake.    2nd nature type habits on our particular play calls.

- The flex TE is an interesting idea, and I'm actually glad you brought that up because further along in that game - Seattle did something similar later on. Only the play ends up being from a 2x2 ace set, a wham block on the nose by the motioning TE, while the RG pulled for a trap on the 3tech. It was basically a split zone mixed with the backside trap.  It was funky as hell to watch at first but really outstanding play design.    The only differences, aside from formation, was that the TE was motioned in from out wide and settled on the OT's hip while staying 2pt before the snap.  

- You could try the C-TE OZ with the RG not throwing any chip on the nose, but you run the risk of not only him affecting the play as usual, but if that weakside backer is worth his salt, he can run right under the block you threw on the fill only to find himself in the gap you voided.  Of course the cutback across the center would theoretically be open, but this is where X's and O's meet Jim's and Joe's.  At some point you just need your talent to beat their talent up front.

- I want to make sure I understand your last scenario.  Weakside X ... receiver?

- I didn't see a motion in this play as it ran, but I don't think the DB will follow the motion from the #1 TE.   The corresponding safety will step down to the motion side and 26 will roll and pickup that assignment while the stong side backer is still tasked on the #2 inline.

 

33 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... actually there are stripes on our flag that do look red to me... whether or not what I see is what you would call "red" is another matter.

Again the issue with being colorblind is the lack of color contrast between two colors. So unless there's secret writing in green on our flag's red strips... I'm good...

 

And before you ask... traffic lights?

Yes... there are times, usually at nite in poorly lit intersections when I am rolling up uncertain until I can see whether the light that is on is top/left (Red/Stop) or bottom/right (Green/Go).

So far so good...

 

Actually wasn't going to ask about the traffic lights thing.  That's only something small children and old folk have to deal with around you.  You're about 1800 miles from me so I feel quite confident that particular car won't be on the sidewalks that I frequent.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

So you can't see 1/3 of the colors in the American flag?..... commie.  

 

 

*nod*.   I will take that compliment and end my day on a high note.

 

 

Not targeted at either of you in this last part...

 

I've really been intently watching every defensive snap and taking notes.   I started last night and still haven't finished the Broncos first game of 2018 vs Seattle.    And I've come to the conclusion on 2 big things.

- My appreciation for Russel Wilson, which was already high, is 5 fold greater now.    The guy really should have taken MVP this past season.  Lamar Jackson is a fine and electric player, I am in no way doubting that.  But nobody means more to their offense, both through the air and on the ground, than RW.    Plays that should have been throw aways, buying extra time, audibles..  just a smooth operator in every since.  Despite the fact he's about the least physically gifted QB in the NFL.   

- The safeties in Joe Woods system NEED to be badass.  That's all there is too it.   And while I think we have some capable players who will fill in reasonably well,  we lack a true center fielder.  A sideline to sideline ballhawk that really unlocks the potential of the defense.       But really both safeties need to have position flexibility to a degree.   You'll always favor a certain player was your hawk, but somebody has to be able to rotate back there every so often and not be completely exposed.       Good and bad news - I'm not entirely sure if that means we target somebody like Jeremy Chinn in a higher (2nd) round...  or pass on him completely in favor of veteran experience, possible 2021 FA and/or draft prospects?  

So....who would be that badass safety that we could get in round 2.   I chose  Antoine Winfield Jr.  His dad was one of the best "badass" tackling CBs ever....and I was hoping the apple would not fall far from the tree.  And in my limited time in seeing him play, he did pretty well.  Just at 5'9 though...a bit vertically challenged.    

A couple of guys here like this "Dugger"  guy?  What say you?   Or who else? 

[The Gipper]

42 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Or take two this Draft and subsequent drafts until we find our guy.

Chinn at 41 and Davis in the 3rd works for me...

In our Board draft, the safeties went in this order:   Xavier McKinney  Ala  #24.    Grant Delpit LSU  31. Kyle Dugger  Lenoir-Rhyne #39,  Antoine Winfield  Minn.  #41;  Ashtyn Davis Call #43;  Jeremy Chinn  #69 (rd. 3)...and not another until after pick 100.

How do you all think that shook down....and should we expect similar in the real draft? 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

- I want to make sure I understand your last scenario.  Weakside X ... receiver?

- I didn't see a motion in this play as it ran, but I don't think the DB will follow the motion from the #1 TE.   The corresponding safety will step down to the motion side and 26 will roll and pickup that assignment while the stong side backer is still tasked on the #2 inline. 

- No... X-block with the LG kicking out the DE and LT cutting behind him to the 2nd level. It's the 3rd piece of my 3-bulletpoint audible outline.

- Got it... so once motion overloads the Offensive left side, the D's right-side Safety will roll up. If he's the weaker tackler of your 2 Safeties, then I'm delighted.

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

The flex TE is an interesting idea, and I'm actually glad you brought that up because further along in that game - Seattle did something similar later on.

Hey... look at me... I've got OC potential!

 

Thanks, man...

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

- No... X-block with the LG kicking out the DE and LT cutting behind him to the 2nd level. It's the 3rd piece of my 3-bulletpoint audible outline.

- Got it... so once motion overloads the Offensive left side, the D's right-side Safety will roll up. If he's the weaker tackler of your 2 Safeties, then I'm delighted.

Hey... look at me... I've got OC potential!

 

Thanks, man...

- OMG.  DUURRRRRRRR.     Sorry about that.  Yeah, I've been up since 5am so that's my bad.  Yes, that could be a counter but if that 3tech's initial punch puts that LG back then the pull won't be... ideal.   You also have to consider that you've pretty much screamed where the ball is going as most everyone in the history of anything will attack that pull.     You also don't need to have Von Miller to that side because any quality weakside edge is going to make that an incredibly spotty call.

- I think the weaker tackling safety thing just goes back to the need for having interchangeable DB's back there.  You want bodies that can cover, run and hit. 

- I'd say so.

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

In our Board draft, the safeties went in this order:   Xavier McKinney  Ala  #24.    Grant Delpit LSU  31. Kyle Dugger  Lenoir-Rhyne #39,  Antoine Winfield  Minn.  #41;  Ashtyn Davis Call #43;  Jeremy Chinn  #69 (rd. 3)...and not another until after pick 100.

How do you all think that shook down....and should we expect similar in the real draft? 

I wouldn't expect it to be similar.              I also would be willing to bet a great deal Dugger isn't drafted in the top 50 either. Likewise for Winfield Jr.

[The Gipper]

39 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

-

- I think the weaker tackling safety thing just goes back to the need for having interchangeable DB's back there.  You want bodies that can cover, run and hit. 

- I'd say so.

I wouldn't expect it to be similar.              I also would be willing to bet a great deal Dugger isn't drafted in the top 50 either. Likewise for Winfield Jr.

Those two guys ARE rated by some services to be  near Top 50 talent.  Winfield rated #54.     Davis #42 Dugger #65.   Not a big stretch to put them in at  50 or below.  

Its not like it would be like TxAg did in our draft, where he was taking people like 100 spots higher than they were rated. 

[tiamat63]

Just now, The Gipper said:

Those two guys ARE rated by some services to be  near Top 50 talent.  Winfield rated #54.     Davis #42 Dugger #65.   Not a big stretch to put them in at  50 or below.  

Its not like it would be like TxAg did in our draft, where he was taking people like 100 spots higher than they were rated. 

I think Winfield's injuries more than his size will hurt him. Davis will be a mid day 2 pick and Dugger is the wild card.  GM's have to ask if they value his physical talent over his currently very raw mental and fundamental skill set.    In my heart I can't see him as a top 50 pick.  But war rooms do questionable things all the time.

[calfoxwc]

9 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

I think Winfield's injuries more than his size will hurt him. Davis will be a mid day 2 pick and Dugger is the wild card.  GM's have to ask if they value his physical talent over his currently very raw mental and fundamental skill set.    In my heart I can't see him as a top 50 pick.  But war rooms do questionable things all the time.

just because Jeremy Chinn is more polished...

"picky, picky, picky" lol

[tiamat63]

Just now, calfoxwc said:

just because Jeremy Chinn is more polished...

"picky, picky, picky" lol

 

Well.....  yeah.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

I wouldn't expect it to be similar.   

So like Ag, NFL war rooms do not use CBS' prospect listing? 😮

lol...

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

So like Ag, NFL war rooms do not use CBS' prospect listing? 😮

lol...

What do  you use?  

I would use the Browns scouting reports if we were privy to them...or any other NFL teams.   If you have a scouting service that is better, more professional/expert that is accessible I suppose that could be considered.  (FYI...that excludes your opinions  You are as much or more of an amateur as I am. )

[TexasAg1969]

39 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

So like Ag, NFL war rooms do not use CBS' prospect listing? 😮

lol...

It's a tertiary source, decent but not end all.😂

I combine it with Walter and drafttec so if at least one of those is not in line with CBS but they are with one another, I go with them.

Or the SEC LOLOLOLOLOL!😂

[Tour2ma]

35 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

What do  you use?  

I would use the Browns scouting reports if we were privy to them...or any other NFL teams.   If you have a scouting service that is better, more professional/expert that is accessible I suppose that could be considered.  (FYI...that excludes your opinions  You are as much or more of an amateur as I am. )

First, Gip... there are no degrees of amateurism... you either is or you ain't... and since neither of us are paid for our football opinions... we is.

Now the degree to which our opinions are in fact our opinions and not some homogenized amalgamation of other peoples' work... well... there's clearly a difference between us.

 

Who do I look to for guidance? As always for me it's the outfit that used to power your CBS bunch... DraftScout... and IMO they are better than ever. Not because their evaluations are better, but because they no longer pretend that they can differentiate prospects as finely as other services seemingly pretend that they can. Here's a sample...

While they still "rank" prospects... it's kind of a requirement when you create a list... they've now "Tiered" them as well. And rather than assigning them a round they bracket an appropriate range. DraftScout is not up front with their methodology, but it appears to be a compilation of many scouting sources... not dissimilar to fivethirtyeight's compilation of poll data. What DraftSCout does not do... at least in the free info available from them... is provide summary write ups. So you have to dig for info and/or look at tape to learn more.

Otherwise I get ideas from the various Draft sims I mess with... mostly out of desperation when I get into the later rounds and don't recognize many names. Some of the sims such as DraftNetwork's have fairly extensive, easily accessible player evals... often multiple ones. How "expert" are they? I don't know and I don't care, because I don't parrot them.

From there it's a matter of how you choose to use the work of all the above... from final stop to springboard. As can be told by my take on this OT class I tend towards the latter.

[The Gipper]

13 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

First, Gip... there are no degrees of amateurism... you either is or you ain't... and since neither of us are paid for our football opinions... we is.

Now the degree to which our opinions are in fact our opinions and not some homogenized amalgamation of other peoples' work... well... there's clearly a difference between us.

Maybe...that difference being   I do not feign at all to be expert in it. I look to other's work, same as you...I just admit that I am not that interested in it.  It bores me. Maybe it doesn't bore you.  

 

Who do I look to for guidance? As always for me it's the outfit that used to power your CBS bunch... DraftScout... and IMO they are better than ever. Not because their evaluations are better, but because they no longer pretend that they can differentiate prospects as finely as other services seemingly pretend that they can. Here's a sample...

While they still "rank" prospects... it's kind of a requirement when you create a list... they've now "Tiered" them as well. And rather than assigning them a round they bracket an appropriate range. DraftScout is not up front with their methodology, but it appears to be a compilation of many scouting sources... not dissimilar to fivethirtyeight's compilation of poll data. What DraftSCout does not do... at least in the free info available from them... is provide summary write ups. So you have to dig for info and/or look at tape to learn more.

Otherwise I get ideas from the various Draft sims I mess with... mostly out of desperation when I get into the later rounds and don't recognize many names. Some of the sims such as DraftNetwork's have fairly extensive, easily accessible player evals... often multiple ones. How "expert" are they? I don't know and I don't care, because I don't parrot them.

From there it's a matter of how you choose to use the work of all the above... from final stop to springboard. As can be told by my take on this OT class I tend towards the latter.

What I see here is that these services more or less placed  Tristan Wirf at the top of the rankings..... and that given the choice of whom to take, Wirfs would seem to be the guy....yet when I chose him for the Browns, you more or less disparaged that choice.   Curioser and curioser Alice.