The "It's-later-than-you-think" 2021 Mock Draft Thread

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

May slightly change draft strategies -- Latest news from Stefanski is expectation of full recovery for Greedy and Delpit with no long-term effects.  Greedy may be a CB3 moving forward and in a 4-2-5 he's still a starter.

Sure, Stefanski could be talking his book -- or he might just be truthful.. It's Monday, I'm optimistic about the week.

That is great news that could really affect our 2021 draft choices. A weakness due to injury that could see instant cure. Now get those LBs and another Garrett twin.😁

[Unsympathetic]

Presuming they actually value LB

[gumby73]

On 1/31/2021 at 10:27 PM, Unsympathetic said:

Reading this article in DBN suggests LB won't be our first or second round pick due to our actual alignments not looking at a "4-3".. Certainly could be with whoever's left in the 3rd, but not high. 

Ya may not like it?.. But, don't fail to read this link ^^^ ...It's a Joe Wood's style defense under draft construction..

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Are we really down with this   4-2-5  setup as the primary defense?   

From Link...  

Under DC Joe Woods, the Browns play a 4-3 defense. Or do they?

In looking at this season’s defensive personnel groupings, the 4-3 was utilized only 267 snaps. That correlates to just 24.8% of defensive plays.

What was used most often? The 4-2-5. A whooping 721 snaps for 66.9%. And get this – the remainder of snaps was in a 4-1-6 alignment.

With this in mind, the emphasis is squaring on the *pass rush and the *defensive backfield.

In the 4-2-5 alignment, the linebackers are used as the Mike (middle) and Sam (strongside) and eliminates the Will (weakside) entirely. The Mike’s duties are to plug the B-gap in running situations or as an occasional blitzer. Typically, the Mike is more of a Sam linebacker plugged into the center of the defense with some quickness and the ability to make adjustments. The other linebacker can be a converted strong safety with some girth and not an actual LB at all. This player will have coverage responsibilities such as the tight end or slot receiver.

With the 4-2-5, on the field personnel requires only one actual linebacker. With this in mind, why would you spend big money on him?

  See Gipper...it's ok to open links & read them 🧐

 

[tiamat63]

Guys, you know that the nickel is what most NFL defenses play 60%+ of the time.  

Calling it a 4-2-5 is long winded and you're picturing that, instead of realizing that's just the personnel listing, that it's somehow the actual alignment.... Which couldn't be further from that that stands for.

[Unsympathetic]

And that's why I now wouldn't be shocked if Browns go WR/Edge 1/2 in some combination .. need someone not named OBJ able to beat the man-press coverage of Ravens so that pass defense becomes something other than "double OBJ, press everyone else".

Day 3 WR fliers are Shi Smith / marlon williams / warren jackson [maybe imatorbhebhe but I wonder about his willingness to work]

The bullet position is the larger DB who can also play the run.. Ohio State now runs it, Michigan has for a while, etc

[tiamat63]

Bullet, Rover, Viper... Plenty of names.

Far back as I can remember - watching Sean Taylor roll up as a de-facto LB.  Cie Grant was a bulked up corner who played WILL backer.  Then Brandon Mitchell, both at tOSU.   Taylor Mays at SC when he was younger.  

The idea of taking a larger DB and using them more aggressively underneath and downhill against the run is a concept 2 decades old from my experience.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

The idea of taking a larger DB and using them more aggressively underneath and downhill against the run is a concept 2 decades old from my experience.

I thought you were two decades old tia.😱😜

[tiamat63]

10 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I thought you were two decades old tia.😱😜

Thrice now, bubs.   I'm expecting the reality of knee pain hell to set in at any moment.

[jrb12711]

42 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Thrice now, bubs.   I'm expecting the reality of knee pain hell to set in at any moment.

I just turned 31 and got an MRI recently from a bowling throw gone wrong. Life comes fast, man.

I'm with you on what I hope the Browns draft strategy is 110%. No matter how you slice it in thinking of scheme, the Browns need EDGE rush help outside Myles and back 7 help. No way Vernon comes back with the injury he had, would be shocked if he plays at all again really. I actually really didn't think our DB depth played bad at all, considering how thrust some dudes were into starting roles. On top of that, we have non-significant capital invested in Greedy and Delpit. I really hope we're targeting a DE/OL prospect, that was the Achilles heel to me more than anything on the defensive side. Who that should be and who may available though I genuinely have NO clue about. 

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Presuming they actually value LB

Currently, does GM Andrew Berry not place any value on the linebacker position? And if that statement is true, one has to wonder why would they spend a valuable first-round draft pick on one.

Historically, what have the Browns done? 2013 was the last time Cleveland took a linebacker in the first-round when they selected Barkevious Mingo of LSU with the sixth overall pick. Before that, it was Craig Powell (1995), Clifford Charlton (1988), Mike Junkin (1987), Chip Banks (1982), Future Hall of Famer Clay Matthews (1978), Robert Jackson (1977), Bob Matheson (1967) and Jim Houston (1960).

What was used most often? The 4-2-5. A whooping 721 snaps for 66.9%. And get this – the remainder of snaps was in a 4-1-6 alignment.

With this in mind, the emphasis is squaring on the pass rush and the defensive backfield.

In the 4-2-5 alignment, the linebackers are used as the Mike (middle) and Sam (strongside) and eliminates the Will (weakside) entirely. The Mike’s duties are to plug the B-gap in running situations or as an occasional blitzer. Typically, the Mike is more of a Sam linebacker plugged into the center of the defense with some quickness and the ability to make adjustments. The other linebacker can be a converted strong safety with some girth and not an actual LB at all. This player will have coverage responsibilities such as the tight end or slot receiver.

With the 4-2-5, on the field personnel requires only one actual linebacker. With this in mind, why would you spend big money on him?

The short answer is: the Browns don’t.

As an example, look at former Browns ILB Joe Schobert. This season in Jacksonville, he was fifth in total tackles in the NFL with 141, just 30 tackles from being the league-leader. Goodson led all Cleveland defenders in total tackles with 91, ranked 57^th.

While with the Browns, Schobert, a fourth-round pick of Cleveland in 2016, had 133 tackles in 2019 (ranked 11^th), 103 in 2018 (35^th), and led the league in 2017 with 144. Yes, he also missed tackles, but yet despite his numbers when his rookie contract was up and he was due a big payday, they allowed him to sign elsewhere in free agency. In short, the cheap productive linebacker suddenly became too expensive to keep.

Not that Cleveland’s defensive schemes doesn’t want linebackers who aren’t good tacklers and develop production. But the numbers indicate the defense needs serviceable LB’s who don’t require a swollen paycheck and can still do the job.

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Ya may not like it?.. But, don't fail to read this link ^^^ ...It's a Joe Wood's style defense under draft construction..

From Link...  

Under DC Joe Woods, the Browns play a 4-3 defense. Or do they?

In looking at this season’s defensive personnel groupings, the 4-3 was utilized only 267 snaps. That correlates to just 24.8% of defensive plays.

What was used most often? The 4-2-5. A whooping 721 snaps for 66.9%. And get this – the remainder of snaps was in a 4-1-6 alignment.

With this in mind, the emphasis is squaring on the *pass rush and the *defensive backfield.

In the 4-2-5 alignment, the linebackers are used as the Mike (middle) and Sam (strongside) and eliminates the Will (weakside) entirely. The Mike’s duties are to plug the B-gap in running situations or as an occasional blitzer. Typically, the Mike is more of a Sam linebacker plugged into the center of the defense with some quickness and the ability to make adjustments. The other linebacker can be a converted strong safety with some girth and not an actual LB at all. This player will have coverage responsibilities such as the tight end or slot receiver.

With the 4-2-5, on the field personnel requires only one actual linebacker. With this in mind, why would you spend big money on him?

  See Gipper...it's ok to open links & read them 🧐

 

I didn't see your post before I copy and posted. 

[SdBacker80]

I thought Woods ran a stay and pray Defense.

Let Myles go and everyone else Hunkers down and hopes for an errant pass or make a tackle after allowing a reception 

[tiamat63]

4 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

I just turned 31 and got an MRI recently from a bowling throw gone wrong. Life comes fast, man.

 

First off - oof.   

It's kind of trippy in a way, being the absolute dead last of the 80's babies.   I went from growing up throughout the 90's and all the wonderful things then, seeing the earliest days of a lot of modern conveniences.... ( having myspace and my razr when I was 17)  Now to having a smart phone and the endless apps for seemingly every little last thing imaginable.    

Yes, life does come fast.  I'm very thankful I've been able to keep myself in such great health.  It was also hilariously eye opening making it to my 10 year high school reunion and being one of the few people there who didn't get fat.    I very much enjoyed that part.       And don't even get me started on what has happened to mainstream music.

 

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

First off - oof.   

It's kind of trippy in a way, being the absolute dead last of the 80's babies.   I went from growing up throughout the 90's and all the wonderful things then, seeing the earliest days of a lot of modern conveniences.... ( having myspace and my razr when I was 17)  Now to having a smart phone and the endless apps for seemingly every little last thing imaginable.    

Yes, life does come fast.  I'm very thankful I've been able to keep myself in such great health.  It was also hilariously eye opening making it to my 10 year high school reunion and being one of the few people there who didn't get fat.    I very much enjoyed that part.       And don't even get me started on what has happened to mainstream music.

 

 

[tiamat63]

36 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

 

 

"Ain't quite there yet, but I'm getting better at it"

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Thrice now, bubs.   I'm expecting the reality of knee pain hell to set in at any moment.

I find as I approach 74 next month that I'm better at being a pain in the ass.😁

[jrb12711]

18 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

First off - oof.   

It's kind of trippy in a way, being the absolute dead last of the 80's babies.   I went from growing up throughout the 90's and all the wonderful things then, seeing the earliest days of a lot of modern conveniences.... ( having myspace and my razr when I was 17)  Now to having a smart phone and the endless apps for seemingly every little last thing imaginable.    

Yes, life does come fast.  I'm very thankful I've been able to keep myself in such great health.  It was also hilariously eye opening making it to my 10 year high school reunion and being one of the few people there who didn't get fat.    I very much enjoyed that part.       And don't even get me started on what has happened to mainstream music.

 

For sure, man. I have a 13, almost 14 month old now and my wife and I (who is about to turn 31) remark on the cool journey we'll be able to tell her. We truly are the last generation to have any memory of a world that didn't revolve around screens. I VIVIDLY remember getting our first dial up computer at 10 years old, and our first family cell phone at 13. Now, my kiddo damn near knows how to work an Ipad at a year old.

I hear that, didn't hit up my high school reunion but being friends with a lot of them on facebook, I turned out alright. Just vibin and listening to Goo Goo Dolls haha.

17 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

 

I, quite literally, told kids to get off my lawn 3 days ago. To be fair they were being shits and breaking sprinklers but still. 

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

For sure, man. I have a 13, almost 14 month old now and my wife and I (who is about to turn 31) remark on the cool journey we'll be able to tell her. We truly are the last generation to have any memory of a world that didn't revolve around screens. I VIVIDLY remember getting our first dial up computer at 10 years old, and our first family cell phone at 13. Now, my kiddo damn near knows how to work an Ipad at a year old.

I hear that, didn't hit up my high school reunion but being friends with a lot of them on facebook, I turned out alright. Just vibin and listening to Goo Goo Dolls haha.

I, quite literally, told kids to get off my lawn 3 days ago. To be fair they were being shits and breaking sprinklers but still. 

I remember telling my parents to not use the phone because I was playing Diablo II online with friends.

And getting home from school to hop on AIM

 

good times

[Unsympathetic]

I remember getting a PC XT and being late to dinner because I was playing Commando.

I built my undergrad computer by myself from parts out of the Computer Shopper magazine and kept printouts of the config.sys and autoexec.bat files to use when the hard drive needed to be reformatted.

[tiamat63]

4 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

I remember getting a PC XT and being late to dinner because I was playing Commando.

I built my undergrad computer by myself from parts out of the Computer Shopper magazine and kept printouts of the config.sys and autoexec.bat files to use when the hard drive needed to be reformatted.

Nerd.

[Unsympathetic]

I'm the president of the club, and also a client!

[calfoxwc]

I remember buying a radio shack TRS-80, lol, I think it had an 8086 processor.... and the sales kid said I had to buy a $400 monitor to go with it.

I said, No, I don't, i'm good. He said I didn't know what I was talking about, it had to have that radio shack monitor.

So, I left with the computer, no monitor after finding out his first name. The kid wasn't happy. lol

So, I went home, took an RF adapter, hooked it up to my Sony TV, and I was in business.

I actually went back to the radio shack, and sat down at their computer while the one same kid was busy with another customer,

got into the autoexec.bat file, and added some programming that scrolled across the screen "(kid's name" doesn't know what he's talking about, see the manager, you can use an RF modulator and use your TV". Two days later, it was still scrolling across the screen, but the third day, I guess they hired somebody to fix it. I was taking college programming classes at the time.....

[The Gipper]

I remember having to use punch card computers at Akron U:

[calfoxwc]

yep, me too. I really was good at programming, and typing fast. Other students kept having their programs blow

up, and every so often, they'd give up, and throw their stack of IBM cards into the far wall, and cards would flutter all through

the room like big butterflies. lol

[Tour2ma]

On 2/1/2021 at 6:53 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

above links.

Where's the tally?

[Tour2ma]

Cranked up First-Pick's trade-crazy sim for the 1st time... seems to have settled down some, especially in the early rounds.

[tiamat63]

18 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Cranked up First-Pick's trade-crazy sim for the 1st time... seems to have settled down some, especially in the early rounds.

 

How many mocks did you have to go through to get Farley that low?

[Tour2ma]

28 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

How many mocks did you have to go through to get Farley that low?

2...

Started one the day before and he went very early... top 5 IIRC. I did not finish that one as I made some trades and got bored with it.

[Tour2ma]

And now for something completely different...

Note of explanation needed... I got stuck. None of the top positions of need fell to me at #26 and trading is only permitted if you are a "Premium DraftNet" subscriber. So...

... I took an IOL at #26... 😮 ... IKR? See the 6 picks that followed for context. While there are some good players there, there were ones I like better that I felt were going to be available to me later.

Did some digging and Vera-Tucker is a damn good, damn versatile OL. He was USC's starting LT and has the talent to fill in there in need be. His issue is that at 6'4 he does not have NFL LT size. But he's fluid in PassPro and ZBS while having road-grader power... thus his projection inside. Only position I am not sure he can handle is OC... and I would not be surprised if he excelled there. Besides adding quality, instant depth at four positions, he could step in if we can't work an affordable deal with Teller.

Bottom line... I thnk I made the BPA of a bad situation.

Rest of the sim run was fairly routine although I did reach slightly in rounds 2 thru 4 for f amiliar names I like... a lot.

The last three are new names to me...

• Whop Philyer (WR, IU) is a small, fast (4.37) WR who plays big... racked up a 1000-yd season in 2019... gave tOSU fits in 2020... and caught 18 balls in IU's 2020 bowl game .
• Marco Wilson (CB, Florida) is a strong tackler with ball skills and 4.4 speed... ST maven with upside.
• Lorenzo Neal (IDL, Purdue) should sound familiar as his Daddy was a NFL FB for 16 years. The FB's kid has skills, but wrecked a knee in 2019 and it hurt his 2020 performance... as did the spotty season.

t

 

[ATOM]

On 2/2/2021 at 4:16 AM, gumby73 said:

Ya may not like it?.. But, don't fail to read this link ^^^ ...It's a Joe Wood's style defense under draft construction..

From Link...  

Under DC Joe Woods, the Browns play a 4-3 defense. Or do they?

In looking at this season’s defensive personnel groupings, the 4-3 was utilized only 267 snaps. That correlates to just 24.8% of defensive plays.

What was used most often? The 4-2-5. A whooping 721 snaps for 66.9%. And get this – the remainder of snaps was in a 4-1-6 alignment.

With this in mind, the emphasis is squaring on the *pass rush and the *defensive backfield.

In the 4-2-5 alignment, the linebackers are used as the Mike (middle) and Sam (strongside) and eliminates the Will (weakside) entirely. The Mike’s duties are to plug the B-gap in running situations or as an occasional blitzer. Typically, the Mike is more of a Sam linebacker plugged into the center of the defense with some quickness and the ability to make adjustments. The other linebacker can be a converted strong safety with some girth and not an actual LB at all. This player will have coverage responsibilities such as the tight end or slot receiver.

With the 4-2-5, on the field personnel requires only one actual linebacker. With this in mind, why would you spend big money on him?

  See Gipper...it's ok to open links & read them 🧐

 

I mentioned this earlier in the thread which is why i said no to drafting a LB that high (hopefully phillips will be healthy next year) and do safety or corner with are first pick

side note : dont panic is one of my favorite tv shows