**** Official Browns at Jets Gameday Thread

[BaconHound]

 

Missing the entirety of the receiving corps and 40% of your Oline might have something to do with that.

We’ve seen the Steelers beat the Browns with backups on several occasions 

[tiamat63]

3 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

We’ve seen the Steelers beat the Browns with backups on several occasions 

Considering previous browns rosters were mostly backups or those who didn't last long in the NFL - this isn't saying much.  

[BobPOUND!]

Wow, good conversation...

 

I was very hard on the team yesterday in real time. It was frustrating to watch.. But the 2nd half showed this isn't the same old Browns(well less so ) .. Baker dropping that ball was very Browns'esques.  But they battled back through a very frustrating 2 days.. You could see they were all stunned in the 1st and most of the 2nd quarter. No body had any energy. The delays, losing the WR corps and half the O Line. .How can that not fuck with you... 

Inside all that bullcrap though, in typical fashion we get at least several HORRIBLE calls go against us.. That interception(YES IT WAS) should have been 6 points going in the other direction... That was a momentum killer, because instead of getting off the field. Next play on a long 3rd, they convert and I believe score on that one.

The other was Baker's last "Fumble". Someone above saw what I saw. HOW IS THAT NOT A LATERAL? The ball leaves Baker's hand(yes I know it wasn't meant to) and goes backwards and directly into Hunt's hands. And he moves the ball forward. The ball NEVER HIT THE GROUND.. So it is either a pass or a lateral.. It is not a fumble.

So for as down as I was yesterday in the first half. I am very optimistic. Colts lost and the Titans lost. Nothing really has changed in my mind.. The Steelers game was always going to be our litmus test... If we can't beat them with all that is on the line. WE DO NOT DESERVE A PLAYOFF SPOT.... 

BobPound! 

[SdBacker80]

Can Woods meet with his secondary and fix these communication issues?   I’m not expecting him to bring pressure outside of 4 maybe 5 guys.  That’s not him. 
 

But fix the communication/assignment responsibilities Before our biggest game of the year- oh wait that was last week, the week before last, the week before that.

 

[Axe]

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

Tia thinks that  Fields will drop way down in the rankings...and in the draft. 

I do too.

It's all about money so if you have to be on a crappy team, NY will offer far more off the field opportunity than Jacksonville

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, Axe said:

I do too.

It's all about money and if you have to be on a crappy team, NY will offer far more off the field opportunity than Jacksonville

I don't know.  If you are a star in the NFL you can make all kinds of  off field money.  I don't think being in Green Bay has hurt  Aaron Rodgers'  endorsement deals.

Besides, it is basically a lock that Trevor will go to Jacksonville,  and he is essentially a good ole southern boy, so he will fit right in there and be comfortable. 

Plus, as I said, the Jets have no business taking a QB.  Darnold can do them just fine......they have a ton more desperate needs than a QB, and moving that #2 pick should give them a lot of ammunition to acquire more talent on multiple fronts. 

[calfoxwc]

5 hours ago, 7moses7 said:

Nick Harris was totally manhandled, so was Lamm at times, these 2 guys need to find a new occupation.

To be fair - Lamm is a backup RT, switching to LT suddenly had to mess him up with his footwork and reactions. Harris did a fine job the game before - the Jets dl guy was a top notch kind of player.

about Harris:

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/23/browns-rookie-nick-harris-looking-back-scouting-reports/

 

[BaconHound]

 

Considering previous browns rosters were mostly backups or those who didn't last long in the NFL - this isn't saying much.  

Kinda my point, good teams with backup players beat bad teams all the time.

[tiamat63]

32 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

Kinda my point, good teams with backup players beat bad teams all the time.

Your mistake is believing that the Browns are THAT good.  

If Baker had only been out but we kept our Oline and Receivers?  Yeah, probably.  

The losses can't be understated enough.   It's an impossibly tall order to lose half your offense and expect success.

[BaconHound]

 

Your mistake is believing that the Browns are THAT good.  

If Baker had only been out but we kept our Oline and Receivers?  Yeah, probably.  

The losses can't be understated enough.   It's an impossibly tall order to lose half your offense and expect success.

I think we agree on that.  The Browns are average at best.  This is an improvement over previous years but this year has been helped greatly by a very easy schedule.

[calfoxwc]

It surely must be tough for a coaching staff to try to judge what plays work and what plays dont' work, with

so many starters missing. The jets knew the entire starting set of wr's were not going to play - so they crowded the los, shut down the run, and dared Baker and the sub's to score on them, knowing they had to throw. And the Browns very nearly did win that game.

   Pretty tall order, indeed. These Browns leave it all out on the field - things didn't go right, it happens. If the Browns can just get their players back - next game will be historic. I'd bet that the Browns bounce back from this last loss, like I've said they have done all this entire season.

[SdBacker80]

4 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Your mistake is believing that the Browns are THAT good.  

If Baker had only been out but we kept our Oline and Receivers?  Yeah, probably.  

The losses can't be understated enough.   It's an impossibly tall order to lose half your offense and expect success.

Issues are all noted and real and My only complaint with the offense...

I think we brought the score to 20-17 and then we got the ball back.  The previous drive we started running the ball proficiently but we went out and threw three straight passes.  The last attempt was Baker acting like Fran Tarkenton and getting blind sided.  Finally some rhythm and we turn into run n shoot browns with Baker scrambling around not confident with his pass catchers.  
 

Maybe one other complaint...before the game I said this was a TE down the seam type game.  Low and behold we hit a large chunk play at the beginning of the game where the backers were screaming run blitz right up the A gap and the safety didn’t get over in time. I felt like that play could have kept the backers/safeties honest at least. We didn’t go back to that.  We showed it and it hit and we left it there.

I can’t stand our defense.  I don’t even want to go there.  I’m going be positive about it until Sunday. 

[calfoxwc]

2 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

I think we agree on that.  The Browns are average at best.  This is an improvement over previous years but this year has been helped greatly by a very easy schedule.

  It's more complicated than that, I think. The offensive line, when healthy, is one of the best in the NFL. Our dline is above average on a good day, Baker is no average qb by any stretch - they are so very close to being a superbowl caliber team. The secondary is in disarray, sure. I mean, COVID, little preseason, etc etc, new coaching staff, injuries, sicknesses, new offense/defense, and these Browns may very well end up 11-5? In the faces of adversity , this team is still all in. That isn't what I would call average, just my opinion.

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, Axe said:

I do too.

It's all about money so if you have to be on a crappy team, NY will offer far more off the field opportunity than Jacksonville

I think he’s going to impress in the post season workouts.  He will sling it and he will run fast I think he will do well on the chalk board.  

I think he’s a Top 10 pick.  I’ve seen a lot worse and also slightly worse go in the top 10.

Lately folks have picked apart the bad tape.  He’s put some great tape out there as well. 

[Tour2ma]

One thing that is easy to overlook in our loss... as the game wore on Baker's rapport with the WRs we fielded improved. This is especially true of Bradley, who actually looked the part.

Hall? Early misfires to him (which I think were as likely on him as they were Baker) gave way to a pretty out route later. One thing for sure... the Jet CBs were respecting his speed.

 

I remain puzzled by our TEs assignments. Clearly our fastest TE, Njoku, was running short routes (and separating) while our slowest, Hooper was running the intermediates and deeper.

 

Lastly... where were the calls to help out our patchwork OL? IIRC it wasn't until Q3 that we called our first screen. I can't recall a designed rollout. Draws... QB and otherwise... weren't in the plan. Early on we were operating from the gun with Hunt by Baker's side... sent Hunt in motion and the MLB followed him... I thought "QB draw", but no, it was not. Then I thought, "Must be setting it up later," but "later" never came.

Other than 3 sneaks Baker did not run the entire game. And it is not as if the opportunities were not there. Exhibit one was the play when he was stripped deep in our own territory. That was a 3rd and 6 play, and it looked to me like close to 6-yds were there.

[Tour2ma]

One added note... to the extent we were able to run late in the game, it was set up by the completions to the WRs.

Just loosened up the Jets D enough to end the suffocation if our two-headed attack.

[SdBacker80]

11 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

One thing that is easy to overlook in our loss... as the game wore on Baker's rapport with the WRs we fielded improved. This is especially true of Bradley, who actually looked the part.

Hall? Early misfires to him (which I think were as likely on him as they were Baker) gave way to a pretty out route later. One thing for sure... the Jet CBs were respecting his speed.

 

I remain puzzled by our TEs assignments. Clearly our fastest TE, Njoku, was running short routes (and separating) while our slowest, Hooper was running the intermediates and deeper.

 

Lastly... where were the calls to help out our patchwork OL? IIRC it wasn't until Q3 that we called our first screen. I can't recall a designed rollout. Draws... QB and otherwise... weren't in the plan. Early on we were operating from the gun with Hunt by Baker's side... sent Hunt in motion and the MLB followed him... I thought "QB draw", but no, it was not. Then I thought, "Must be setting it up later," but "later" never came.

Other than 3 sneaks Baker did not run the entire game. And it is not as if the opportunities were not there. Exhibit one was the play when he was stripped deep in our own territory. That was a 3rd and 6 play, and it looked to me like close to 6-yds were there.

Yes!!! The rollout- It was like it didn’t exist Sunday and it didn’t exist.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I think he’s going to impress in the post season workouts.  He will sling it and he will run fast I think he will do well on the chalk board.  

I think he’s a Top 10 pick.  I’ve seen a lot worse and also slightly worse go in the top 10.

Lately folks have picked apart the bad tape.  He’s put some great tape out there as well. 

Wait Who are you talking about? I thought we were talking about Trevor Lawrence who will be the first to Jacksonville

[SdBacker80]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Wait Who are you talking about? I thought we were talking about Trevor Lawrence who will be the first to Jacksonville

I thought I saw a comment about Fields above.

Trevor is in Jax and it might be with Urban Meyer 

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I thought I saw a comment about Fields above.

Trevor is in Jax and it might be with Urban Meyer 

Where are you hearing that?

[calfoxwc]

Baker says he failed his team, Stefanski says they got outcoached....

https://www.brownsnation.com/baker-mayfield-walks-off-postgame-interview-after-jets-loss/

as much as I wanted the game to be delayed by the corrupt commish.... it would have been harder on the

Browns to get ready for the last game. I predict they bounce back like they have after every single loss this season.

[Tour2ma]

42 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I predict they bounce back like they have after every single loss this season.

Let's just hope they bounce high enough...

 

CoVid kids who test negative can return Thursday.

[ATOM]

2 hours ago, BaconHound said:

.  This is an improvement over previous years but this year has been helped greatly by a very easy schedule.

didnt the ravens and squulers play that same schedule they average ? 

[The Gipper]

25 minutes ago, ATOM said:

didnt the ravens and squulers play that same schedule they average ? 

Yes more or less 

[ATOM]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Yes more or less 

you know its kinda funny how assholes like espn kept saying the Browns need to prove to us that they can win against a team with a winning record while the ravens have only beat indy and us but yet they say the ravens are the most feared team if they make the playoffs 

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, ATOM said:

you know its kinda funny how assholes like espn kept saying the Browns need to prove to us that they can win against a team with a winning record while the ravens have only beat indy and us but yet they say the ravens are the most feared team if they make the playoffs 

The Browns have defeated the entire AFC south the entire NFC  East Andthe Bengals twice. They lost to two losing teams. The Jets and the Raiders. And they lost twice to the ravens and once to the Steelers. Maybe all they really mean is that the Browns need to prove they can beat out of the ravens or the Steelers

[ATOM]

fucking ravens have also lost to 2 teams with losing records and fuck what those jerk off's at espn think I dont even think they watch any of the games just prep enough to bump their ass stained gums for a hour or so

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Your mistake is believing that the Browns are THAT good.  

If Baker had only been out but we kept our Oline and Receivers?  Yeah, probably.  

The losses can't be understated enough.   It's an impossibly tall order to lose half your offense and expect success.

Yeah- our LBs pale in comparison to a healthy Steers crew. Secondary, we have one star (Ward) and a serviceable Harrison (when healthy). 5 spots that could use some upgrading. Remains to be seen if Delpit can come back healthy next year, or limp armed Greedy- who right now has all the making of an injury bust.  

[calfoxwc]

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-linebacker-rankings

We need a blue chip LB in the ...draft? or free agent? this is from the beginning of August this year....

2020 NFL Linebacker Rankings

 

1. Bobby Wagner, Seattle Seahawks

Wagner led the NFL with 159 tackles in 2019, but as we’ve said, tackle totals aren’t the best barometer for linebacker performance. Wagner’s tackles matter because he’s so smart on the field and so quick to the ball, and he’s one of the best ’backers in the NFL in pass coverage. He’s also an excellent, if occasional, blitzer, as his three sacks and 14 total pressures in 2019 indicate.

 

2. Eric Kendricks, Minnesota Vikings

The modern NFL requires linebackers to be full-field run-and-chase players as opposed to run-stopping headbangers, and Kendricks is the perfect such player in Mike Zimmer’s zone-based nickel defense. Kendricks is a tackle-collecting machine. With his on-field expertise and movement abilities, he can sniff out run plays before they happen, and he’s so often in the right place for the optimal coverage.

 

3. Darius Leonard, Indianapolis Colts

There are very few linebackers in the NFL who do everything required of the position better than Leonard does. In his rookie season of 2018, he led the league in both solo and combined tackles. In 2019, he started dropping into coverage more, doing that to the tune of five interceptions and an opponent passer rating allowed of 79.0 — a very low number for a defender dealing mostly with short and intermediate passes.

 

4. Demario Davis, New Orleans Saints

The Saints signed Davis to a three-year, $24 million contract in 2018, hoping that he could help an underperforming linebacker corps. Given the relatively small numbers in that deal, it’s safe to say that Davis’ current team got more than it bargained for. A ferocious run stopper who has developed into an above-average cover man, Davis has one foot in the old school at his position, but he’s learned to adapt as a true full-field defender.

 

5. Cory Littleton, Las Vegas Raiders

Jon Gruden and Mike Mayock made a very savvy move with the acquisition of Littleton, the former Rams star, with a three-year, $35.25 million contract. Littleton will immediately make that defense better as both a run stopper and especially as a short and intermediate defender in pass coverage. Few NFL linebackers have a better sense of what quarterbacks are about to do.

 

6. Lavonte David, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

David has been one of the most athletic and productive players at his position since the Bucs selected him in the 2012 draft. And since his rookie season, no other NFL player has more solo tackles than David’s 724, which is one indication of how quickly he gets to the ballcarrier and how suddenly he’s able to shut things down when he gets there. Add in his blitzing ability and coverage skills, and it’s fascinating that he hasn’t made a Pro Bowl since 2015.

 

 

 

7. Fred Warner, San Francisco 49ers

San Francisco’s top-level defense had several stars last season, but Warner was as important as anybody else — especially when fellow linebacker Kwon Alexander lost half the season to a pectoral injury. At that point, Warner upped his game in every category from run fits to advanced coverage concepts, culminating in a Super Bowl LIV interception.

 

8. Deion Jones, Atlanta Falcons

Jones is the heir to the Derrick Brooks/Brian Urlacher linebacker prototype — that ’backer who can seamlessly cover seam and post routes with an easy backpedal at least 10 yards from his initial position. Jones isn’t the most definitive run stopper or tackler on the move, but few players at his position are able to handle the needs a defense has for a linebacker who can tour the field in a big hurry.

 

9. Jaylon Smith, Dallas Cowboys

Had Smith not suffered a horrific injury in the 2016 Fiesta Bowl, he would have been a top-five prospect. The Cowboys took a shot on him in the second round of the 2016 draft, and Smith rewarded them with outstanding production after what amounted to a medical redshirt season. In 2019, he set career highs in tackles (142), solo tackles (83) and passes defensed (nine).

 

10. Jamie Collins Sr., Detroit Lions

Collins was at his best with the Patriots because de facto defensive coordinator Bill Belichick has always understood Collins’ unique gifts as a pass rusher, run stopper and coverage man. Signing a three-year, $30 million contract with the Lions may or may not provide a re-run of Collins’ time with the Browns, who didn’t quite know what to do with him. The presence of head coach and former Pats defensive coordinator Matt Patricia should ostensibly help.

11. C.J. Mosley*, New York Jets
12. Leighton Vander Esch, Dallas Cowboys
13. Kwon Alexander, San Francisco 49ers
14. Jayon Brown, Tennessee Titans
15. Roquan Smith, Chicago Bears
16. Tremaine Edmunds, Buffalo Bills
17. Zach Cunningham, Houston Texans
18. Blake Martinez, New York Giants
19. Joe Schobert, Jacksonville Jaguars
20. Benardrick McKinney, Houston Texans
21. Danny Trevathan, Chicago Bears
22. K.J. Wright, Seattle Seahawks
23. Devin Bush, Pittsburgh Steelers
24. Devin White, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
25. Alexander Johnson, Denver Broncos
26. Dont'a Hightower*, New England Patriots
27. Shaq Thompson, Carolina Panthers
28. Anthony Barr, Minnesota Vikings
29. Jordan Hicks, Arizona Cardinals
30. Matt Milano, Buffalo Bills

 

[BaconHound]

 

didnt the ravens and squulers play that same schedule they average ? 

They are 3-0 against the Browns with 2 beatdowns.  I’d say the Ravens are slightly above average and the Steelers are very good.