Clowney is a Brownie

[Vagitron]

8 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

AFC North
Hide your QB...better draft some Tackles.

Maybe the best hit I’ve seen in College Football

It's one of the reasons he got drafted where he did. You all should temper your enthusiasm with clowney. He's very strong against the run but unless he can feed off Garrett double teams sacking the qb isn't exactly his forte. I frankly think you all paid him too much money. I will eat some crow if I'm wrong. 

[Vagitron]

7 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Don’t agree with this but you never how things work out. 

Clowney does not get after the qb. He exists on name rec. He is very strong against the run tho. 

[SdBacker80]

1 minute ago, Vagitron said:

It's one of the reasons he got drafted where he did. You all should temper your enthusiasm with clowney. He's very strong against the run but unless he can feed off Garrett double teams sacking the qb isn't exactly his forte. I frankly think you all paid him too much money. I will eat some crow if I'm wrong. 

One year deal for a little over half the price we paid Vernon last year. 

[Vagitron]

7 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

That was a solid hit and i love seeing a Michigan player blown up but I believe Clowney has been vastly overrated since this hit. I'm still happy with the signing but I'm also not expecting double digit sacks from him this year or anything. I'm a homer but I'm partial to this hit. I love Gus Johnson btw (see Woody not a complete hater of Michigan) and his call of this.  "You got barbecue back there and didn't invite me? Hurt. My. Feelings."

 

I think he's one of the most overrated players in the entire nfl if you really pay attention. He has huge name rec and it's undeserved. I loved the pick ups from the rams in fa early by the Browns but this one for me is stinky. Take my steeler Fandom out of the equation. Hes not worth 10m either. 

[SdBacker80]

5 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

It's one of the reasons he got drafted where he did. You all should temper your enthusiasm with clowney. He's very strong against the run but unless he can feed off Garrett double teams sacking the qb isn't exactly his forte. I frankly think you all paid him too much money. I will eat some crow if I'm wrong. 

Is A Villaneuva coming back to block Myles or Clowney? 

[Vagitron]

1 minute ago, SdBacker80 said:

One year deal for a little over half the price we paid Vernon last year. 

It's not terrible. He's just not as good as people think he is. 

[Vagitron]

Just now, SdBacker80 said:

Is Andrew V coming back to block Myles or Clowney? 

I hope not. He sucks. 

[Vagitron]

4 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Is A Villaneuva coming back to block Myles or Clowney? 

As it stands it's okorafor and banner. If Jenkins is there at 24 I could see the steelers drafting him. I will be shocked if villanueva comes back and if he does it better be damn near free. There are a lot of lineman in this draft. AL gets dog walked by top level comp. You are also seriously hitting the bottle if you think clowney is just gonna be killing qb's. Garrett he is not unless he finds another gear he's never found. I mean that as nicely as possible. Lol

[Orion]

7 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Sure, a good stable of DLinemen is always a great thing, and Clowney does bring some good things to the table.

But this team is no better at rushing the QB today than they were when they walked off the field at Arrowhead in January. 

If Berry agrees with you then we should see something happen for the position early in the draft.  Clowney is a one year deal.  A mercenary.  He's not representative of the 'building for the future' part of the plan.  He fits with the 'rack up a few super bowls while we're at it' part of the plan. 

So far, Berry has been throwing bodies at the opposite side from Myles. 

[SdBacker80]

7 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

As it stands it's okorafor and banner. If Jenkins is there at 24 I could see the steelers drafting him. I will be shocked if villanueva comes back and if he does it better be damn near free. There are a lot of lineman in this draft. AL gets dog walked by top level comp. You are also seriously hitting the bottle if you think clowney is just gonna be killing qb's. Garrett he is not unless he finds another gear he's never found. I mean that as nicely as possible. Lol

Thanks for your opinion.

I see problems for the Steelers 

[gumby73]

Fans love a good stat-line player.... while the media never tracks a players real assignment 🙄..

JC was rarely used inside with Vrabel..that's on Vrabel.. Hawks did..and had success with QB hits & QB chit stains.. I'll trust Joe Woods on giving JC every chance to hit those incentives  

[Vagitron]

17 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Thanks for your opinion.

I see problems for the Steelers 

 

Yea the steelers aren't perfect, several holes. We will see how the draft goes. They crushed it with dotson. Banner out right earned the job before hurting his knee. There are a ton of lineman outside the first round. Take the steelers completely out of this equation. Clowney has never lived up to his draft position, not even close. 

[gumby73]

33 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

You are seriously missing Mike Munchak..... Lol

fify 

[SdBacker80]

27 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

 

Yea the steelers aren't perfect, several holes. We will see how the draft goes. They crushed it with dotson. Banner out right earned the job before hurting his knee. There are a ton of lineman outside the first round. Take the steelers completely out of this equation. Clowney has never lived up to his draft position, not even close. 

1 yr 8M - 10M contract says that Browns aren’t invested big time in him.  They aren’t expecting him to live up to his draft position.  Play solid football hopefully stay healthy.  And He was fairly healthy from 15-19. 

He’s another scary dude we need to rotate in upfront.  

[Unsympathetic]

Here's an article with ESPN's pass rush winrate history, a cutup of all his pressures in 2019, and a few other meaty details about Clowney.

"Clowney is a uniquely explosive athlete, and as long as that’s the case, he’ll always be a player capable of disrupting the quarterback. But turning those disruptions into sacks is going to require some creativity from his coaching staff."

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Vagitron said:

It's one of the reasons he got drafted where he did. You all should temper your enthusiasm with clowney. He's very strong against the run but unless he can feed off Garrett double teams sacking the qb isn't exactly his forte. I frankly think you all paid him too much money. I will eat some crow if I'm wrong. 

If the Steelers had signed Clowney this board would be whooping it up, talking about how the Steelers just wasted $10 mill on an overrated bum. There isn't a doubt in my mind about this.

[Dutch Oven]

53 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

 

Yea the steelers aren't perfect, several holes. We will see how the draft goes. They crushed it with dotson. Banner out right earned the job before hurting his knee. There are a ton of lineman outside the first round. Take the steelers completely out of this equation. Clowney has never lived up to his draft position, not even close. 

I'll make the argument that Clowney was waaaaaaay more hyped entering the NFL than Myles was. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Sure, a good stable of DLinemen is always a great thing, and Clowney does bring some good things to the table.

But this team is no better at rushing the QB today than they were when they walked off the field at Arrowhead in January. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Vagitron said:

It's one of the reasons he got drafted where he did. You all should temper your enthusiasm with clowney. He's very strong against the run but unless he can feed off Garrett double teams sacking the qb isn't exactly his forte. I frankly think you all paid him too much money. I will eat some crow if I'm wrong. 

Well....we needed someone strong against the run as well.  If he is a beast against the run and that is it for him, that is still good. 

[Tour2ma]

26 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'll make the argument that Clowney was waaaaaaay more hyped entering the NFL than Myles was. 

Yes and no...

Yes, due to the video of JC's hit on the tsun kid...

No, because there was a real debate as to who the #1 overall prospect was when Clowney came out. Not the case for MG's class.

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

...yeah...that's not very flattering...

But I once was watching a game and saw a replay of a play that he had just made......he was lined up inside and at the snap of the ball he juked one way, then pounced back in the other direction and tapped the guard on the back as he was leaving him in the dust while wrapping up the QB and ending the play before it even got started.   I remember being in awe ....of somebody of that size, being so blazing quick.....

We'll see.  

It's probably a good idea to build a nice rotation for Myles.  We saw how he struggled for breath after having COVID last year.  And who knows how long that lasts?  And who knows what the NFL is going to be like this year, COVID wise?  A good rotation might be a good idea especially in COVID times.

Regarding covid- I don't see that being an issue for NFL teams 2021, certainly not to the extent it was last year. Unless players and coaches are being dum-dums or antivaxxers, they should all be vaccinated before training camp starts.  But as I like to say 95% effective isn't 100% effective. 

3 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Clowney does not get after the qb. He exists on name rec. He is very strong against the run tho. 

We bought in a body Vag. Checking Spotrac- they have him as #73 in edge salary obligation. We certainly didn't overpay for what's likely a one year rent-a-player.  

And I noticed you still have TJ Watt on his rookie deal- get ready to pay up, or he's heading for greener $$$ pastures next year, just like Steven Nelson and Bud Dupree did. Remains to be seen if keeping Ben around for a last hurrah is going to be worth it. FWIW, Bleacher report has you as one of the top 5 teams in the league on the verge of imminent collapse.  Hmmm, you have a guy  I never heard of as your only center, (duck Ben) and Joe Haden is running on fumes at CB.  

[nickers]

It's not like Clowny is a garbage player... He is not.. It's all about opportunities... Lets see what the effect of Kevin Stefanski is on him... Then make a sumation from there... We might just be surprised... If he's stalwart against the run... Then it's well worth the investment...

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

It's not like Clowny is a garbage player... He is not.. It's all about opportunities... Lets see what the effect of Kevin Stefanski is on him... Then make a sumation from there... We might just be surprised... If he's stalwart against the run... Then it's well worth the investment...

Move up for Kwitty and move Clowney to DT next to Myles or even the rookie. Then watch the ensuing fun in the DL. The rookie gets no double teams and here we go Brownies, here we go!

[Unsympathetic]

10 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Here's an article

Clowney's 3-cone and shuttle are very low. He's an explosive athlete, but his pressures at edge in Houston and Tennessee came not by beating the OT upfield, but rather by going inside of the OT after going upfield.  Just what tia wants to hear! [And the reason why Clowney is&was overrated..]

So his high "double team rate" combined with "pass rush win" combined with no sacks is not because he's actually double-teamed at the line but rather because that inside move brings him into the OG.  And, the inside move means the OT quickly recovers.

Clowney at DT in passing situations is actually not terrible, because lining up at DT and/or stunting with the DT is how the pressure numbers were achieved when Vrabel was the DL coach in Houston.  It's not implausible - Clowney had 9 sacks during one of the seasons JJ was injured the entire year.

Because Clowney is a rental and a weird mix of skills [Is he a DI? Is he an edge? You decide!] I still wouldn't be shocked if it's DL in the first.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Move up for Kwitty and move Clowney to DT next to Myles

God, I hope you're not saying that beyond obvious passing situations.

[tiamat63]

9 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Clowney's 3-cone and shuttle are very low. He's an explosive athlete, but his pressures at edge in Houston and Tennessee came not by beating the OT upfield, but rather by going inside of the OT after going upfield.  Just what tia wants to hear! [And the reason why Clowney is&was overrated..]

So his high "double team rate" combined with "pass rush win" combined with no sacks is not because he's actually double-teamed at the line but rather because that inside move brings him into the OG.  And, the inside move means the OT quickly recovers.

Clowney at DT in passing situations is actually not terrible, because lining up at DT and/or stunting with the DT is how the pressure numbers were achieved when Vrabel was the DL coach in Houston.

Because Clowney is a rental, I still wouldn't be shocked if it's DL in the first.

So before I could respond to Barry, he deleted his post to mine.  I was going to respond that the context of the double teams is also important.  I don't believe a lot of chip helps gets throw at Clowney because he has survived on athletic ability so long that his technical pass rushing arsenal never really improved.  I would suspect the double teams are from the guard to his side giving help to the inside shoulder of the OT when JD tries to win inside.

I'm under no guise as to what his strengths and weaknesses are.  What I am hoping for is that, playing opposite of Myles and hopefully along with a decent IDL, his weaknesses can be masked by the surrounding talent. 

My chief concern was cost and we didn't overpay so....  Time to let it ride.

[TexasAg1969]

59 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

God, I hope you're not saying that beyond obvious passing situations.

Not really. But he is a great run stopper. You know from my pushing for Barmore where I really am on all this. Another force in the middle you have to double team. I loved the Jackson pickup, but I see him as the mentor for a guy like Barmore who is still wet behind the ears.

[tiamat63]

10 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Not really. But he is a great run stopper. You know from my pushing for Barmore where I really am on all this. Another force in the middle you have to double team. I loved the Jackson pickup, but I see him as the mentor for a guy like Barmore who is still wet behind the ears.

Significant difference between 6'5 250 and 6'3 325.

[The Gipper]

10 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Yes and no...

Yes, due to the video of JC's hit on the tsun kid...

No, because there was a real debate as to who the #1 overall prospect was when Clowney came out. Not the case for MG's class.

There WAS some debate on who should be picked #1 the year Garrett came out, at least among the media and the fans.    And I saw rumors that there was some debate even in the Browns front office.   Maybe it should not have been serious debate, but there was some debate. 

 

[runyon27]

I am cautiously optimistic with this signing. Keeping him healthy I think will be the key. He can be very disruptive when on field. Even without getting sacks he is up there in QB pressures and he is very good against the run which I hope will come into play against the Ravens. I think this signing doesn't mean we have to reach on an edge player and let the draft fall to us. I would prefer one of the better LBs if possible but would be fine with the top defensive player available regardless of position in the 1st round.