BROWNS OUT OF WATSON RACE

[Orion]

Fortunately, Watson does not want to go to a cold weather team.  So, he won't sign off on a trade to Cleveland.

[Bob806]

8 hours ago, Nero said:

I don't want trading 3 freaking first rounders for Watson. 

Right. Berry & company have drafted pretty well while in charge, & this seems to go against "analytics."

Im not sure I'm renewing my season tickets if this deal goes through.

[The Cysko Kid]

Hey but we're going to get the Michael Jordan of sexual impropriety. Think of the Steelers here. They get to keep all their wins and roethlisberger gets to get downgraded to second worst rapist in the division (in recent memory, anyway)

[tiamat63]

Hear me out on this re: 3 first round draft picks. 

2007 - Quinn

2010 - McCoy 

2012 - Weeden

2014 - Johnny Hatecrime 

2016 - Cody Kessler

2017 - Deshone Kizer

2018 - Baker

 

That's four 1st round picks,  two 3rd round picks and one 2nd round pick.   Seven total swings at a QB.  Let's pretend we would have had a QB available in 2007 for those early 3 first round picks... that likely means you're not burning valuable mid round capital in 2010 (Navarro Bowman)  2016 (Sam Hubbard)  and 2017  (Eddie Jackson) 

Parathenes shows the players I wanted. 

Imagine having a franchise QB secured, that you aren't throwing darts in almost every draft?  You can invest in productive players at other positions because your most important chess piece is now secured.   Especially investing in positions where you find the ideal value in those mid round - DL, LB, DB, TE. 

I had to rack my brain around it overnight. But something tells me analytically surrending three 1st round picks makes mathematical sense.  The Bills took three 1st round shots at QB before getting Josh Allen.  

To me it seems wise, and more so if we don't trade any other talent besides Baker.  Pretend you have Watson  (off field stuff aside) Chubb & Kareem.  You have a top 10 QB and two top 10 RB's. That's insane wealth at your disposal which immediately opens a superbowl window.

[jrb12711]

5 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Hear me out on this re: 3 first round draft picks. 

2007 - Quinn

2010 - McCoy 

2012 - Weeden

2014 - Johnny Hatecrime 

2016 - Cody Kessler

2017 - Deshone Kizer

2018 - Baker

 

That's four 1st round picks,  two 3rd round picks and one 2nd round pick.   Seven total swings at a QB.  Let's pretend we would have had a QB available in 2007 for those early 3 first round picks... that likely means you're not burning valuable mid round capital in 2010 (Navarro Bowman)  2016 (Sam Hubbard)  and 2017  (Eddie Jackson) 

Parathenes shows the players I wanted. 

Imagine having a franchise QB secured, that you aren't throwing darts in almost every draft?  You can invest in productive players at other positions because your most important chess piece is now secured.   Especially investing in positions where you find the ideal value in those mid round - DL, LB, DB, TE. 

I had to rack my brain around it overnight. But something tells me analytically surrending three 1st round picks makes mathematical sense.  The Bills took three 1st round shots at QB before getting Josh Allen.  

To me it seems wise, and more so if we don't trade any other talent besides Baker.  Pretend you have Watson  (off field stuff aside) Chubb & Kareem.  You have a top 10 QB and two top 10 RB's. That's insane wealth at your disposal which immediately opens a superbowl window.

We've never met in person, but I respect the heck out of your contributions to the fan group. But I hope as a man you can put this aside and realize adding Watson is bigger than a Super Bowl ticket. We all know what you're saying is true, and I agree with your sentiment 100%. But none of that should matter when it comes to enabling a sexual predator.

[tiamat63]

17 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

We've never met in person, but I respect the heck out of your contributions to the fan group. But I hope as a man you can put this aside and realize adding Watson is bigger than a Super Bowl ticket. We all know what you're saying is true, and I agree with your sentiment 100%. But none of that should matter when it comes to enabling a sexual predator.

And there in lies my personal riddle. 

I know a girl, practically like my younger sister, who was assaulted while she was in college.  It. Was. Infuriating.  

On the flippy flip, a good friend of mine was accused of sexual assault once.  Nearly ruined his marriage until it came out the whole thing was fabricated.  I can't begin to stress how long it took to repair his image.

With that said, it's also 22 different women and that... is hard for me to ignore.   But I'm reminded of that kid from USC, can't recall his name. Was recruited, accused of rape, convicted then locked up.   Several years later he got his accuser to confess she lied and he was released.   By then the damage was done though. Kid missed his college development, experiences and ultimately his shot at a sustained NFL career.   If he was convicted off the testimony and flimsy evidence of one woman, how was Deshaun not even charged based on the testimony of 22? 

I ultimately don't have an answer. My heart says I wouldn't put up with the clown show and media that comes with Watson's baggage. Along with my gut just telling me to stay away from someone like that. 

It isn't my decision, sadly.  Otherwise this isn't a position I would put my franchise in.  Which is why I'm speaking of it purely from a football perspective in my evaluation.  Hell, if it was my decision the Browns wouldn't be in this spot to begin with. My track record of picks is better than any GM we had from 2010-2018. 

Lost in all of this is the players on roster,  some of them fathers themselves. And it is those men Deshaun will have to answer to the moment he should set foot in Berea. 

[calfoxwc]

29 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

We've never met in person, but I respect the heck out of your contributions to the fan group. But I hope as a man you can put this aside and realize adding Watson is bigger than a Super Bowl ticket. We all know what you're saying is true, and I agree with your sentiment 100%. But none of that should matter when it comes to enabling a sexual predator.

Yep. that is 4 picks over eleven years. Previously, during those eleven years, the Browns screwed up drafts.

Andrew Berry is brilliant - that is a completely different deal.

Watson has more baggage than a C-5M Super Galaxy completely stuffed with cargo.

I just think his behavior will manifest itself again some way while with his next team.

Trade a few first round picks for THAT? hell, I'd rather draft a qb for three years in the first round.

And I sure don't want to do that either.  Truth is, I don't want Watson  because I honestly won't watch the Browns again until he's gone. I swear after being an avid Browns fan since eh....1959? I will walk away - I will not honor a low slimy character - 22 women who probably most had no idea of the others?

That is very bad.

I don't care how good he is on the field...whenever he might get there.... His value as a qb on the field is nothing to me when the NFL will probably hammer him with a suspension, and whatever civil? lawsuits that can transpire.... the Browns do not want the drama. Just my opinion.

[Bob806]

6 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

It isn't my decision, sadly.  Otherwise this isn't a position I would put my franchise in.  

Here I thought Haslam turned the corner, & yet here he comes again.

Kind of ironic that owners from the Bible Belt are going after Watson (New Orleans, Carolina, Atlanta, & Jimmah from Tennessee). 

Then you have the Cleveland factor- Goodell likes extended suspensions for Browns players. Watch- if Watson lands here he'll get much more than Big Ben's 6 game suspension (reduced to 4).

Plus the PR downfall with sponsors, and ultimately the fans. Haslam just doesn't seem to "read the room."

[tiamat63]

1 minute ago, Bob806 said:

Here I thought Haslam turned the corner, & yet here he comes again.

Kind of ironic that owners from the Bible Belt are going after Watson (New Orleans, Carolina, Atlanta, & Jimmah from Tennessee). 

Then you have the Cleveland factor- Goodell likes extended suspensions for Browns players. Watch- if Watson lands here he'll get much more than Big Ben's 6 game suspension (reduced to 4).

Plus the PR downfall with sponsors, and ultimately the fans. Haslam just doesn't seem to "read the room."

The thing about the suspension is, the players union will contest the length and likely win in this case. Being that none of the behavior was "public"... like someone such as Zeke Elliott had. 

Again, this is a situation my heart would tell me to avoid.

[calfoxwc]

38 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

The thing about the suspension is, the players union will contest the length and likely win in this case. Being that none of the behavior was "public"... like someone such as Zeke Elliott had. 

Again, this is a situation my heart would tell me to avoid.

Upvote. ( I ran out of them again....)

[jrb12711]

50 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

With that said, it's also 22 different women and that... is hard for me to ignore.   But I'm reminded of that kid from USC, can't recall his name. Was recruited, accused of rape, convicted then locked up.   Several years later he got his accuser to confess she lied and he was released.   By then the damage was done though. Kid missed his college development, experiences and ultimately his shot at a sustained NFL career.   If he was convicted off the testimony and flimsy evidence of one woman, how was Deshaun not even charged based on the testimony of 22? 

I ultimately don't have an answer. My heart says I wouldn't put up with the clown show and media that comes with Watson's baggage. Along with my gut just telling me to stay away from someone like that. 

It isn't my decision, sadly.  Otherwise this isn't a position I would put my franchise in.  Which is why I'm speaking of it purely from a football perspective in my evaluation.  Hell, if it was my decision the Browns wouldn't be in this spot to begin with. My track record of picks is better than any GM we had from 2010-2018. 

Lost in all of this is the players on roster,  some of them fathers themselves. And it is those men Deshaun will have to answer to the moment he should set foot in Berea. 

Specifically to the bolded, let's not get it twisted. Texas is backwards as hell when it comes to women's rights. I can't find it in a quick search, but at least two of the victims spoke out about how they got the classic "well were you asking for it" speech from the cops in presenting the evidence of their abuse. Injustice is unfortunately a two way street.

I get it's not our decision to put him in a Browns uniform, but it's our decision to not support the team, the organization, and the morally corrupt owners who would even consider allowing this man into the building. I just hope it doesn't come to that, but it's an easy decision for me if it does.

[tiamat63]

16 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Specifically to the bolded, let's not get it twisted. Texas is backwards as hell when it comes to women's rights. 

I get it's not our decision to put him in a Browns uniform, but it's our decision to not support the team, the organization, and the morally corrupt owners who would even consider allowing this man into the building. I just hope it doesn't come to that, but it's an easy decision for me if it does.

In order 

- Oh, I know. Texas is just an odd state period, especially with women's rights.  Edit: and don't even get me started on HB2779 there. 

- The owners were morally corrupt before this. I don't suppose anyone has forgotten about the Flying J scandal?  But while you're considering boycotting the team for one man, what about all the others who have done right by this team and community still on roster?  You can believe and trust, should Watson be on roster, they're already dreading how they'll be questioned and ultimately labeled because of it. 

[jrb12711]

20 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

- The owners were morally corrupt before this. I don't suppose anyone has forgotten about the Flying J scandal?  But while you're considering boycotting the team for one man, what about all the others who have done right by this team and community still on roster?  You can believe and trust, should Watson be on roster, they're already dreading how they'll be questioned and ultimately labeled because of it. 

To this I'd say simply "one bad apple spoils the bunch". It doesn't mean your statement is false, nor would I expect Browns players to boycott playing and ruin their livelihood. But this apple if added to the group is rotten to the core and spoils the good.

Everyone has their lines, I just hope we all (to take it off you personally) deeply consider what those are if this predator is a Cleveland Brown. As I stated before, my decision is simple-there's no way I could look my daughter in the face nor my wife and root for the team if he's the QB.

[calfoxwc]

9 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

To this I'd say simply "one bad apple spoils the bunch". It doesn't mean your statement is false, nor would I expect Browns players to boycott playing and ruin their livelihood. But this apple if added to the group is rotten to the core and spoils the good.

Everyone has their lines, I just hope we all (to take it off you personally) deeply consider what those are if this predator is a Cleveland Brown. As I stated before, my decision is simple-there's no way I could look my daughter in the face nor my wife and root for the team if he's the QB.

[D Bone]

I'm not speaking of my own opinion of the dude, rather just my observation.

Before and immediately after we signed Hunt, I remember reading how most hated him for punching a woman.... and his actions and guilt were on video tape for the whole world to see. Then as time slowly went buy, I read more comments regarding how she hit him first and/or acted the fool and ultimately 'got what was coming to her'.

I also read how he was taking charge of himself by admitting to what he had done and was seeking help to become a better man and everyone deserves a second chance in life..... Then Hunt played and performed spectacularly on the field and most every comment about his video taped woman beating simply faded away.

^ Just an observation about a dude who was filmed doing something, and how it might point to what may happen with a dude that has accusations only and has been cleared by the law.

 

( Be very, very careful in putting words in my mouth on this subject ) 

 

[laiccm]

Yup..I take him. I don't go to the NFL for my integrity

[Westside Steve]

12 minutes ago, D Bone said:

I'm not speaking of my own opinion of the dude, rather just my observation.

Before and immediately after we signed Hunt, I remember reading how most hated him for punching a woman.... and his actions and guilt were on video tape for the whole world to see. Then as time slowly went buy, I read more comments regarding how she hit him first and/or acted the fool and ultimately 'got what was coming to her'.

I also read how he was taking charge of himself by admitting to what he had done and was seeking help to become a better man and everyone deserves a second chance in life..... Then Hunt played and performed spectacularly on the field and most every comment about his video taped woman beating simply faded away.

^ Just an observation about a dude who was filmed doing something, and how it might point to what may happen with a dude that has accusations only and has been cleared by the law.

 

( Be very, very careful in putting words in my mouth on this subject ) 

 

 

About halfway through the police couldn't tell who was the aggressor because as we know the previous footage from the room was not available. Her statement conflicted with the statement of even her friends who said she was acting crazy. Maybe if you've lived a sheltered life you've never seen drunk chicks go wild and celebrities rooms.

Anyway I guess it's possible that all 22 of these chicks are making it up. So the Baker haters can take solace in that.

WSS

 

[D Bone]

See? My observations were way off base... 

[bjh2130]

28 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

So the Baker haters can take solace in that.

Just because someone doesn't like baker and how he divided that locker room (based off things I've seen this morning and actions last year) doesn't mean they support Watson. But go on your high horse

[Westside Steve]

7 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

Just because someone doesn't like baker and how he divided that locker room (based off things I've seen this morning and actions last year) doesn't mean they support Watson. But go on your high horse

I will, thanks for your approval. Regardless  of what kind of b******* you heard from talking sports heads that need to think up crap to spew in the off-season. Then again even if you believe it I can't imagine that the situation would be better with the highest paid player in the NFL who was a team cancer in Texas before he decided to molest women...

but

And since I wasn't really addressing you and you jumped bad because I mentioned Baker haters...

WSS

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

With that said, it's also 22 different women and that... is hard for me to ignore. 

22 is hard to ignore, but the courts have now given us permission to do so. 22 suits filed, zero will proceed to criminal trial. That still means something...

[SdBacker80]

17 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

22 is hard to ignore, but the courts have now given us permission to do so. 22 suits filed, zero will proceed to trial. That still means something...

Agree.  

Indictments typically mean there is smoke 

A later conviction 98% of time there was smoke and fire. 

[calfoxwc]

Wait -  Hunt made a terrible mistake. Learned and grew from it and he's great now.

watson made.... at least 22 mistakes? anyone really believes that he deserves a 23rd? chance?

come on, man.

[Mr. Make-Believe]

32 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Wait -  Hunt made a terrible mistake. Learned and grew from it and he's great now.

watson made.... at least 22 mistakes? anyone really believes that he deserves a 23rd? chance?

come on, man.

I don't know if Watson did or not. Neither do you. There's the difference

[bjh2130]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Regardless  of what kind of b******* you heard from talking sports heads that need to think up crap to spew in the off-season.

I heard nothing from talking sports heads about locker room issues. I heard from someone close enough that I thoroughly trust them and have zero reason to doubt them.  Not to mention if attention was paid to the actions last year off the field but especially on the field (sideline to be precise) it was already pretty evident that the locker room was badly fractured. I had no idea how broken until this morning.

Again I say just because some don't want baker on the team for the sake of the locker room and other things doesn't mean they support Watson on the team. I am a very firm believer the browns make playoffs last year is keenum starts and I believe they could do it this year as well.

 

Lastly Watson is not the highest paid player in the league so I'm not sure where that info comes from

[Tour2ma]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Make-Believe said:

There's the difference

Please, elaborate...

[calfoxwc]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Make-Believe said:

I don't know if Watson did or not. Neither do you. There's the difference

except not knowing means I don't want him on my team.

so, it's likely he faces civil law suits? or something like that?

The Browns would be stupid to make that move. And honestly, I won't watch them all season

if they do.

[SdBacker80]

It may not be Watson…it looks like it will not be Baker.  Truthfully I don’t have a clue who will be the Browns QB in 2022.  I think the FO is going to make it a point to bring someone in that will play the position better than what it was played in 2021.  You can look at the list of who is available and figure that out and maybe add a few surprises names.   I don’t see the Browns being left with Keenum or having to sign a guy like Mariota for a year.  
 

Im sensing we are going to mortgage the future one way or another to get this right. 

[laiccm]

Hopefully we get him! Letz go!

[D Bone]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Please, elaborate...

I'm not speaking for Mr MB - just myself:

The difference to me is Hunt did it. I saw it with my own 2 eyes.

Deshaun is still innocent until proven guilty... I know that concept has fallen by the wayside in this country over the last few years and should now read, "You're innocent until someone accuses you on Twitter... then you one guilty mother fucker". 

^ Again, no one should read into this as to my personal feelings towards Deshaun, Hunt, or even the great Jim Brown...... that last name should twist several hypocritical panties and I can't wait to read all of the excuses as to why his name should not be on that list. In 3, 2, 1.....