Browns fans are a confusing bunch.

[Neo]

Every article I read that has to do with the Browns anywhere on the internet that has a comment section, all I read is people complaining that the team has been rebuilding for the past 20 years and that they are angry because the organization has done this to the fans over and over again. So they actually turn things around by drafting players like Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, Greg Newsome, Nick Chubb, JOK, Njoku, and having the balls to draft Baker. Then they bring in players via trade and FA like Landry, Kareem Hunt, John Johnson, JC Tretter, and Austin Hooper.

Baker leads us to a win over Pittsburgh in the playoffs for the first time in decades, now we have DeShaun Watson. I used to think Haslem didn't care about the Browns, that he was keeping them shitty on purpose because he knew no matter how bad they were the fans would still buy tickets. The fact they took a chance on Watson and gave him the contract they did proves me I was wrong about Haslem. Now I hear arguements from two different crowds, one is how bad Baker is and how he is holding the team back, the other is raging about the Browns trading for Watson and saying the organization is still in a continued state of rebuilding. 

Even if you don't like Watson, you have to give them credit for trying to bring a franchise QB here. I get it, trading for him was a huge risk, but who the fuck else did the Browns even have a chance at? All of the good young top level QB's in the league today AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE. So you take a chance on a retread like Matt Ryan? Russell Wilson? I think the Browns are looking at the long term. People still angry at the organization are either not real fans (trolls) or have been asleep for the past 20 years.

[calfoxwc]

Just now, calfoxwc said:

"and can scramble for good yards like Lamar Jackson maybe"

weird - the forum froze up on me there....... couldn't edit.

just seems racist to me. All they had to do was draft the terrific qb from Liberty College if they

wanted a good qb that can really run for yards and make defenses pay.

Or any other qb that can also run who isn't a dirtbag.

so tired of the woke craze in sports and everything else.

 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

Even if you don't like Watson, you have to give them credit for trying to bring a franchise QB here. I get it, trading for him was a huge risk, but who the fuck else did the Browns even have a chance at?

Sums up my view.  

I've never been a big Haslam fan at all...but...it seems he and the organization realize that they're built to win now.  And that the AFC has more than a few VERY good QB's.  And a QB of their level became available.  And that somebody was going to get him.  - They stuck their neck's out in trying to win.

[Gorka]

5 hours ago, Neo said:

Every article I read that has to do with the Browns anywhere on the internet that has a comment section, all I read is people complaining that the team has been rebuilding for the past 20 years and that they are angry because the organization has done this to the fans over and over again. So they actually turn things around by drafting players like Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, Greg Newsome, Nick Chubb, JOK, Njoku, and having the balls to draft Baker. Then they bring in players via trade and FA like Landry, Kareem Hunt, John Johnson, JC Tretter, and Austin Hooper.

Baker leads us to a win over Pittsburgh in the playoffs for the first time in decades, now we have DeShaun Watson. I used to think Haslem didn't care about the Browns, that he was keeping them shitty on purpose because he knew no matter how bad they were the fans would still buy tickets. The fact they took a chance on Watson and gave him the contract they did proves me I was wrong about Haslem. Now I hear arguements from two different crowds, one is how bad Baker is and how he is holding the team back, the other is raging about the Browns trading for Watson and saying the organization is still in a continued state of rebuilding. 

Even if you don't like Watson, you have to give them credit for trying to bring a franchise QB here. I get it, trading for him was a huge risk, but who the fuck else did the Browns even have a chance at? All of the good young top level QB's in the league today AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE. So you take a chance on a retread like Matt Ryan? Russell Wilson? I think the Browns are looking at the long term. People still angry at the organization are either not real fans (trolls) or have been asleep for the past 20 years.

What was our record last year again?

 

[Neo]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

've never been a big Haslam fan at all...but...it seems he and the organization realize that they're built to win now.

Haslam is a business man and a 230 million fully guaranteed contract says " I want to fucking win". He sure the hell isn't paying him that money so the Browns can remain the  leagues doormat. The Haslam's clearly care about winning.  Fortune favors the bold.

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

he haslams doing this - was NOT for the fans or the team, not for winning. It was for going woke with the NFL.

Thanks for proving that you're not only a troll but you've been asleep the past 20 years. We're not drafting the William Green's, Brady Quinn's, Dennis Northcutt's of the football universe anymore. I suppose The Haslam's bringing in a guy like Andrew Berry who brought in all the talent in the draft and FA is also doing for the woke.😏 Nice attempt to hijack my thread with your politcal bullshit.

[mjp28]

27 minutes ago, Gorka said:

What was our record last year again?

 

A losing  record,  barely, 8-9 tied for 3rd in the AFCN.  Generally considered unacceptable by most fans.  Correct  ?

[Gorka]

2 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

A losing  record,  barely, 8-9 tied for 3rd in the AFCN.  Generally considered unacceptable by most fans.  Correct  ?

Exactly my point.

And Neo wonders why fans are still bitching?

[Zombo]

This is the healthiest the Browns organization has ever been in the new era.

Not only did we finally nail the draft, but we got Garrett, Chubb and Ward signed under SECOND CONTRACTS.

We went two decades of drafting lousily,  and other than Joe Thomas and Joe Haden, got  NO cornerstone players under a 2nd contract.

We have built the best offensive line in football and got the key pieces locked up long term.

We traded for Armani Copper, and reworked his contract before the WR market blew up, a stroke of genius.

We've had recent success drafting in Day One (Newsome) Day Two (JOK) and Day Three (DPJ).

Re-signed Hunt, Harrison, tendered D'Ernest .... Keeping your good players ... What a concept.

Then, instead of being content with our iffy franchise QB, we went all in on a Bona-fide franchise QB.

Kudos to the Browns, they have finally changed the culture, and hired a coach we can actually keep around and build with (20-15 in two years).

Now, I haven't been around all that much, but I have picked up that some of the Holier Than Thou Fox News Types (Cal, Steve) have a real problem with the Browns going out and improving the team with Watson. I don't  get it, but I think it goes something like this: Married middling White QB getting blowjobs behind the  Cheesecake Factory > Single Pro Bowl Black QB asking for hand jobs on the massage table.

They're all football players. I don't need to see behind the curtain. I need them to win championships for the Cleveland Browns ... and this current roster is going to give us the best chance we have had in decades.

So that's my take as a Browns fan.

Z

[Neo]

50 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Exactly my point.

And Neo wonders why fans are still bitching?

Fighting for a playoff spot in one of the toughest if not THE toughest division in all of football that includes a team with Joe Burrow who's team went to the Super Bowl last year, and by the way, we beat them twice last year. 

We have a competent GM, a roster full of talent, and an owner willing to eat a 230 million dollar contract ( and by the way, I really appreciate that as a fan). Somehow, losing record doesn't tell the whole story.

[mjp28]

One thing for sure winning  cures a lot of ills, like losing.

Playoffs next year would be a good start in this tough division. 

[gumby73]

 Not my business not my money..(they investigated 👀.. than..highly invested* knowing the ri$k'd $$'s)  

I'm not going anywhere..I'm a true high flying Browns fan.. while..I can still see both sides with fans...  some will stay.. some will go (how will they not watch?😎 )

It's the media, i really can't stand right now.... they have suddenly twisted everything a young 27 year old franchise QB could do with this team... Go Browns ! 

[BrownsnMopar]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

this is bs. Everybody has their own opinion - the browns didn't "try to bring a franchise qb here". Watson can play, he isn't a star qb, he is a cancer, and apparently a sleazy in trouble with the law asswhole. The browns want to bring a winner to clevelad? then WHY give up THREE FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS for this garbage reputation? Why alienate about half of the fans who can't and won't support this jerk?

I've been to Browns games before I was born. As a kid, I went with my Parents to see the browns play pittsburg in an exhibition game vs the squealers. I"ve watched Browns seasons through so many coaches. Decades and decades.

Columbus Crew soccer fans protest Browns trade for Deshaun ...

https://www.foxnews.com › sports › columbus-crew-soccer-fans-protest-browns-trade-deshaun-watson

The decision by Cleveland Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam to trade for former Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson has led to a backlash among fans of another team they own, the Columbus Crew.

I watched Blanton Collier teach kids how to pass a football in a video back in the day as a kid. You judging fans who don't agree with you is stupid.

The haslams doing this - was NOT for the fans or the team, not for winning. It was for going woke with the NFL. Seriously, they draft this "scumbucket" ? then they sign two other qb's who ....are all black.

If the browns had traded two first round draft picks to draft say, PIckett? and traded Baker? I'd be fine with that.

This was a slutty move by the Browns.

 

...What happened to innocence UNTIL proven guilty??? These Alligations against Watson are just that alligations! These alligations  ONLY came up after DeShawn asked to be traded.  By a lawyer(who is  SLEAZY,and MONEY driven) whom is a friend and neighbor of the corrupt(BITTER)

Texans owner!! 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Zombo said:

This is the healthiest the Browns organization has ever been in the new era.

Not only did we finally nail the draft, but we got Garrett, Chubb and Ward signed under SECOND CONTRACTS.

We went two decades of drafting lousily,  and other than Joe Thomas and Joe Haden, got  NO cornerstone players under a 2nd contract.

We have built the best offensive line in football and got the key pieces locked up long term.

We traded for Armani Copper, and reworked his contract before the WR market blew up, a stroke of genius.

We've had recent success drafting in Day One (Newsome) Day Two (JOK) and Day Three (DPJ).

Re-signed Hunt, Harrison, tendered D'Ernest .... Keeping your good players ... What a concept.

Then, instead of being content with our iffy franchise QB, we went all in on a Bona-fide franchise QB.

Kudos to the Browns, they have finally changed the culture, and hired a coach we can actually keep around and build with (20-15 in two years).

Now, I haven't been around all that much, but I have picked up that some of the Holier Than Thou Fox News Types (Cal, Steve) have a real problem with the Browns going out and improving the team with Watson. I don't  get it, but I think it goes something like this: Married middling White QB getting blowjobs behind the  Cheesecake Factory > Single Pro Bowl Black QB asking for hand jobs on the massage table.

They're all football players. I don't need to see behind the curtain. I need them to win championships for the Cleveland Browns ... and this current roster is going to give us the best chance we have had in decades.

So that's my take as a Browns fan.

Z

Cal's morality is damn selective, IMHO...  I'll leave it at this... His hero has more allegations than Deshaun... So he can shove his railings about trading for a scumbag QB, when OTOH, he worships a guy who has plenty of accusations of sexual impropriety.  29>22.  He can stop his bleating now, we got his POV loud and clear. 

 

15 minutes ago, BrownsnMopar said:

...What happened to innocence UNTIL proven guilty??? These Allegations against Watson are just that allegations! These allegations  ONLY came up after DeShaun asked to be traded.  By a lawyer(who is  SLEAZY,and MONEY driven) whom is a friend and neighbor of the corrupt(BITTER)

Texans owner!! 

I reserve my right to have a final take on this until the dust settles...  Like the Browns obviously did a ton of digging into said "accusations".  Mam, if you came back for more 3X... and you had NO idea what Watson liked?  I suspect you thought you were underpaid for your services.  

[BernieSuperBowl2]

Most Browns fans get it, but about a third or so refuse to accept reality. They think Baker Mayfield was the second coming of Tom Brady or Joe Montana. In 2020, we made the playoffs and won a playoff game, which many incorrectly attribute to Baker. In 2020, look who Baker had at positions on offense:

RB Chubb (Pro Bowler), RB Hunt (Pro Bowler), WR Odell (Pro Bowler), WR Landry (Pro Bowler), LT Wills (Pro Bowler), LG Bitonio (Pro Bowler), C Tretter (Pro Bowler), RT Conklin (Pro Bowler), RG Teller (Pro Bowler), TE Hooper (Pro Bowler). 

Baker had a player who has been a Pro Bowler at some point in their career at literally every position in 2020. We had no major injuries in 2020 besides Odell who Baker had zero chemistry with because he can't throw a deep ball or figure out how to use a top WR. I'm not saying Baker didn't play well, he did in 2020....but it was due to the monster lineup we had, not because of Baker. We beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs due to a fluke game where our defense scored a defensive TD on the first play of the game and then got us five turnovers throughout the game - we had two rushing TD's and two short passes that Landry and Chubb took to the house on their own effort. It wasn't Baker putting the team on his shoulders and dragging us to a victory. It was the defensive TD & turnovers and Hunt/Chubb/Landry.

Watson is a clear upgrade over Baker. There are Browns fans with low football IQ's who think that because Baker got us to the playoffs in 2020, he should keep his starting job for the next 15 years and not be held accountable for his poor play, lack of mental/emotional maturity, and complete inability to finish games or have a come back in crunch time (Baker's stats are among the all-time worst in 4th quarter crunch time). You can't win a Super Bowl in this league without a top QB, and Baker simply isn't a top QB and Watson is a top QB whether you like him or not. 

 

[nickers]

6 hours ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

Most Browns fans get it, but about a third or so refuse to accept reality. They think Baker Mayfield was the second coming of Tom Brady or Joe Montana. In 2020, we made the playoffs and won a playoff game, which many incorrectly attribute to Baker. In 2020, look who Baker had at positions on offense:

RB Chubb (Pro Bowler), RB Hunt (Pro Bowler), WR Odell (Pro Bowler), WR Landry (Pro Bowler), LT Wills (Pro Bowler), LG Bitonio (Pro Bowler), C Tretter (Pro Bowler), RT Conklin (Pro Bowler), RG Teller (Pro Bowler), TE Hooper (Pro Bowler). 

Baker had a player who has been a Pro Bowler at some point in their career at literally every position in 2020. We had no major injuries in 2020 besides Odell who Baker had zero chemistry with because he can't throw a deep ball or figure out how to use a top WR. I'm not saying Baker didn't play well, he did in 2020....but it was due to the monster lineup we had, not because of Baker. We beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs due to a fluke game where our defense scored a defensive TD on the first play of the game and then got us five turnovers throughout the game - we had two rushing TD's and two short passes that Landry and Chubb took to the house on their own effort. It wasn't Baker putting the team on his shoulders and dragging us to a victory. It was the defensive TD & turnovers and Hunt/Chubb/Landry.

Watson is a clear upgrade over Baker. There are Browns fans with low football IQ's who think that because Baker got us to the playoffs in 2020, he should keep his starting job for the next 15 years and not be held accountable for his poor play, lack of mental/emotional maturity, and complete inability to finish games or have a come back in crunch time (Baker's stats are among the all-time worst in 4th quarter crunch time). You can't win a Super Bowl in this league without a top QB, and Baker simply isn't a top QB and Watson is a top QB whether you like him or not. 

 

It all remains to be seen.. Neither has won a goddamn sausage... Getting a new lawn doesn't guarantee it will get or stay green on the other side. Baker never lacked for arm strength. Kind of hard for anyone to be be a deep passer when injured. He did launch a 70 yard bomb a couple of seasons back. That doesn't excuse his terrible attitude. Nor does it excuse the Clowns for the way they miss-handled him... Both of them are bitches but I was more than ok with rolling with Mayfield one more season.. If he didnt pan out... Okay.. Move on... Whats done is done... This fucker has a lot to prove to me before I can buy in... But history has shown Watson is a dumb fuck who found himself in questionable circumstances... That's not what I need my QB focusing on.. I need his head into the playbook.. not the fucking court room...

[Gorka]

11 hours ago, Neo said:

Fighting for a playoff spot in one of the toughest if not THE toughest division in all of football that includes a team with Joe Burrow who's team went to the Super Bowl last year, and by the way, we beat them twice last year. 

We have a competent GM, a roster full of talent, and an owner willing to eat a 230 million dollar contract ( and by the way, I really appreciate that as a fan). Somehow, losing record doesn't tell the whole story.

The whole story means nothing if you don't win. 

If you're happy with a good story with a lousy ending more power too you, just don't expect others to fall in line.

Yeah we beat Cincy, but we also were swept by a pathetic Steeler team...with Myles and others arriving at the game at First Energy wearing Halloween costumes. A real good look for a team serious about beating the fucking Steelers.

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, BrownsnMopar said:

...What happened to innocence UNTIL proven guilty??? These Alligations against Watson are just that alligations! These alligations  ONLY came up after DeShawn asked to be traded.  By a lawyer(who is  SLEAZY,and MONEY driven) whom is a friend and neighbor of the corrupt(BITTER)

Texans owner!! 

I did say apparently. we don't know. but about half of Browns fans do NOT need the controversy. There is enough there that IS true - to figure this trade is trash. it would have been different if they had signed him for the money - except there are other qb's in the draft the next two years we could have drafted. I would have been fine to do an expensive trade up.

Like I said - I'm not the only one. And the little click that wants to run anyone out of town that doesn't agree with them can go shove it.

[Canton Dawg]

Baker was a crybaby, and Watson is a diva.

My only issue is the Browns overpaid immensely for a guy that has a resume not much better than Mayfield.

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Baker was a crybaby, and Watson is a diva.

My only issue is the Browns overpaid immensely for a guy that has a resume not much better than Mayfield.

I just thought which is better or worse  ?  Now the team has a lot to do with comparing stats side by side but let's take a look. 

And to be fair both played through the COVID-19 era,  keep that in mind on stat totals.  So no names who's better ? 

* Pro Bowl selection  3-0  just FYI.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career					60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

6 comebacks, 7 game-winning drives - full summary

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career					54	53	28-25-0	1186	1748	67.8	14539	104	5.9	36	2.1	712	77	8.3	8.6	12.3	269.2	104.5		174	1050	9.1	7.02	7.26	8	10	55
2017	22	HOU	qb	4	7	6	3-3-0	126	204	61.8	1699	19	9.3	8	3.9	85	72	8.3	8.4	13.5	242.7	103.0	83.5	19	116	8.5	7.10	7.19			7	AP ORoY-3
2018*	23	HOU	QB	4	16	16	11-5-0	345	505	68.3	4165	26	5.1	9	1.8	215	73	8.2	8.5	12.1	260.3	103.1	61.8	62	384	10.9	6.67	6.87	5	5	16	PB
2019*	24	HOU	QB	4	15	15	10-5-0	333	495	67.3	3852	26	5.3	12	2.4	191	54	7.8	7.7	11.6	256.8	98.0	70.5	44	257	8.2	6.67	6.63	3	5	16	PB
2020*	25	HOU	QB	4	16	16	4-12-0	382	544	70.2	4823	33	6.1	7	1.3	221	77	8.9	9.5	12.6	301.4	112.4	63.7	49	293	8.3	7.64	8.22			16	PB

8 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives - full summary

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by mjp28

[calfoxwc]

not much difference considering the texans had two star #1 draft picks at WR.

too bad baker didn't have that.

[nickers]

12 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

not much difference considering the texans had two star #1 draft picks at WR.

too bad baker didn't have that.

And they also had a top 5 defense..

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

8 hrs ago, Whooreta said:

Cal's morality is damn selective, IMHO...  I'll leave it at this... His hero has more allegations than Deshaun... So he can shove his railings about trading for a scumbag QB, when OTOH, he worships a guy who has plenty of accusations of sexual impropriety.  29>22.  He can stop his bleating now, we got his POV loud and clear. 

*****************************

strange, you are so hostile and dishonest at night. Then you seem to post more sober the next day. While you were "out", maybe, I clearly said more than once - I would have been fine if they traded a few first rounders to move up in this draft to draft a new qb, and traded baker. Making up stupid dishonest narratives to have some warped reason to bitch is your strong point. You still post like you have a hangover. STFU at night - maybe?

It isn't that Baker is anyone's hero. If the browns decided to move on from Baker, fine. but

 

No Cal, my point is you worship your "Greatest President, Ever, Ever"... And overlook the myriad sexual allegations leveled against you know who... Including Rape... "Grab 'em by the pussy" ring any bells?  And Watson is a slimeball? Either they're both slimeballs, or neither of them are. Take your truckload of hypocrisy back over to the Political Board fantasy land. No whataboutism & spin permitted here either. 

22 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

not much difference considering the texans had two star #1 draft picks at WR.

too bad baker didn't have that.

Dear Broken Record Cal...  Your WR BS has been debunked at least a dozen times already, but you just keep on spewing the same baloney. 

Browns... OBJ- PRO BOWL,  Landry- PRO BOWL, Hooper PRO BOWL, Chubb and Bitonio PRO BOWL...  It was pointed out.... Baker had PRO BOWL talent surrounding him at virtually every offensive position, and the only reason they managed to beat the Steelers in the playoff game is they got gifted a touchdown 10 seconds into the game... SIX turnovers, and the Browns hung on to win.  I'm not going to bother looking up how many teams have won a playoff game when they've turned the ball over that many times.  

[BernieSuperBowl2]

46 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

I just thought which is better or worse  ?  Now the team has a lot to do with comparing stats side by side but let's take a look. 

And to be fair both played through the COVID-19 era,  keep that in mind on stat totals.  So no names who's better ? 

* Pro Bowl selection  3-0  just FYI.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career					60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

6 comebacks, 7 game-winning drives - full summary

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career					54	53	28-25-0	1186	1748	67.8	14539	104	5.9	36	2.1	712	77	8.3	8.6	12.3	269.2	104.5		174	1050	9.1	7.02	7.26	8	10	55
2017	22	HOU	qb	4	7	6	3-3-0	126	204	61.8	1699	19	9.3	8	3.9	85	72	8.3	8.4	13.5	242.7	103.0	83.5	19	116	8.5	7.10	7.19			7	AP ORoY-3
2018*	23	HOU	QB	4	16	16	11-5-0	345	505	68.3	4165	26	5.1	9	1.8	215	73	8.2	8.5	12.1	260.3	103.1	61.8	62	384	10.9	6.67	6.87	5	5	16	PB
2019*	24	HOU	QB	4	15	15	10-5-0	333	495	67.3	3852	26	5.3	12	2.4	191	54	7.8	7.7	11.6	256.8	98.0	70.5	44	257	8.2	6.67	6.63	3	5	16	PB
2020*	25	HOU	QB	4	16	16	4-12-0	382	544	70.2	4823	33	6.1	7	1.3	221	77	8.9	9.5	12.6	301.4	112.4	63.7	49	293	8.3	7.64	8.22			16	PB

8 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives - full summary

 

I'd definitely take that Houston QB. More yards, more TD's, less interceptions (this is huge), higher completion percentage, more game winning drives, higher QBR. And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

[Canton Dawg]

47 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

I just thought which is better or worse  ?  Now the team has a lot to do with comparing stats side by side but let's take a look. 

And to be fair both played through the COVID-19 era,  keep that in mind on stat totals.  So no names who's better ? 

* Pro Bowl selection  3-0  just FYI.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career					60	59	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	4.8	56	2.9	681	89	7.3	7.0	11.9	235.4	87.8		134	889	6.5	6.43	6.10	6	7	45
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10	AP ORoY-2
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.1	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

6 comebacks, 7 game-winning drives - full summary

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
Career					54	53	28-25-0	1186	1748	67.8	14539	104	5.9	36	2.1	712	77	8.3	8.6	12.3	269.2	104.5		174	1050	9.1	7.02	7.26	8	10	55
2017	22	HOU	qb	4	7	6	3-3-0	126	204	61.8	1699	19	9.3	8	3.9	85	72	8.3	8.4	13.5	242.7	103.0	83.5	19	116	8.5	7.10	7.19			7	AP ORoY-3
2018*	23	HOU	QB	4	16	16	11-5-0	345	505	68.3	4165	26	5.1	9	1.8	215	73	8.2	8.5	12.1	260.3	103.1	61.8	62	384	10.9	6.67	6.87	5	5	16	PB
2019*	24	HOU	QB	4	15	15	10-5-0	333	495	67.3	3852	26	5.3	12	2.4	191	54	7.8	7.7	11.6	256.8	98.0	70.5	44	257	8.2	6.67	6.63	3	5	16	PB
2020*	25	HOU	QB	4	16	16	4-12-0	382	544	70.2	4823	33	6.1	7	1.3	221	77	8.9	9.5	12.6	301.4	112.4	63.7	49	293	8.3	7.64	8.22			16	PB

8 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives - full summary

 

In the world of what have you done for me lately, I like what this guy on Twitter had to say.

Pro Bowls doesn’t translate into a good QB…Derek Anderson went to the Pro Bowl.

I also recall listening to some Watson stats on the NFL Network about his record vs teams with winning records, plus he was the most sacked QB in 2019 & 2020.

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

I'd definitely take that Houston QB. More yards, more TD's, less interceptions (this is huge), higher completion percentage, more game winning drives, higher QBR. And he did it with way less talent than the Cleveland QB.

Well I can't deny there's a good percentage of Browns fans on a morality bender... To a certain extent I am too... But what's done is done. I'm not cancelling my season tickets over it.

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, Canton Dawg said:

In the world of what have you done for me lately, I like what this guy on Twitter had to say.

Pro Bowls doesn’t translate into a good QB…Derek Anderson went to the Pro Bowl.

I also recall listening to some Watson stats on the NFL Network about his record vs teams with winning records, plus he was the most sacked QB in 2019 & 2020.

So the question COUD be what was the status of Watson's offensive line?  If Watson put up those numbers playing behind a sieve, it's even more impressive.  Um, BAD teams usually have BAD records against GOOD teams.    

[Canton Dawg]

3 minutes ago, hoorta said:

So the question COUD be what was the status of Watson's offensive line?  If Watson put up those numbers playing behind a sieve, it's even more impressive.  Um, BAD teams usually have BAD records against GOOD teams.    

According to PFF, the Texans Oline was ranked 23rd in 2019 and 20th in 2020.

I would attribute the numbers of sacks on DW’s efforts to extend a play.

He needs to learn to throw the ball away more often.

On your comments about W-L record…no shit.

What do you think his learning curve is going to be playing in CLE?

With that salary, I would say he will need to start winning from day one.

[tiamat63]

The "load" of the Texans' offense is placed on Watson.  His command at the line, checks, projection adjustments, getting into the right plays and then ultimately post snap decision making, looks markedly better than Baker. A Baker who enjoyed a superior running game and Oline personnel.  Especially when we get real apples to apples and compare straight drops, pass pro and run:pass ratio from Watson to Baker.  The results, including depth of target, completion percentage, turnovers, turnover worthy throws, AYPC, zone anticipation and ball placement-  all favor Deshaun.  A few of those by quite a bit. 

No, pro bowls aren't everything.   It's only when we take the time to dig further do the results show such contrast.  But that requires patience, the I.Q and dedicating the time to it.  Three things most people have very little of in the time of 140 characters and exaggerated headlines.

[Neo]

The whole point of the thread is we are not in the same place we were in 1999. We are drafting much better players, we are signing better free agents, and the owner wants to desperately win. We have a Super Bowl contending core, the window is still open and the owner saw a opportunity he thought would improve this team.

I already said they took a huge risk trading for Watson, everybody knows it was a huge risk, the owners knew it was a huge risk. But you're not getting Brady, or Rodgers, or Josh Allen, or Joe Burrow. The only QB's I saw the Browns MAYBE could of had was Russell Wilson or Matt Ryan. Yeah Russell can still play but seems on the down slope of his career (not saying he stinks or is not productive, but not like he was in his Superbowl years), Matt Ryan seems like he took a beating in Atlanta and don't know how much left in the tank there is for him.

So that leaves an enigma in Watson, physically gifted, comes with a ton of baggage, and still young enough to be here for the long term if he pans out. Only time will tell if the gamble will pay off and as any good Browns fan, I'm hoping it will !! 

(EDIT) So I was a little wrong about Russell's production, but his numbers did fall off a bit last year. But I still think it was a long shot for the Browns to land him.

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

The whole point of the thread is we are not in the same place we were in 1999. We are drafting much better players, we are signing better free agents, and the owner wants to desperately win. We have a Super Bowl contending core, the window is still open and the owner saw a opportunity he thought would improve this team.

I already said they took a huge risk trading for Watson, everybody knows it was a huge risk, the owners knew it was a huge risk. But you're not getting Brady, or Rodgers, or Josh Allen, or Joe Burrow. The only QB's I saw the Browns MAYBE could of had was Russell Wilson or Matt Ryan. Yeah Russell can still play but seems on the down slope of his career (not saying he stinks or is not productive, but not like he was in his Superbowl years), Matt Ryan seems like he took a beating in Atlanta and don't know how much left in the tank there is for him.

So that leaves an enigma in Watson, physically gifted, comes with a ton of baggage, and still young enough to be here for the long term if he pans out. Only time will tell if the gamble will pay off and as any good Browns fan, I'm hoping it will !! 

(EDIT) So I was a little wrong about Russell's production, but his numbers did fall off a bit last year. But I still think it was a long shot for the Browns to land him.

Pretty much my sentiments.

Making Watson the highest paid QB was an all in approach by the FO.

I certainly hope they’re right, but if Berry is wrong he just set us back a few years and needs to be shitcanned.